28 réponses à ce sujet

[Andres Hendrix]

I've noticed that a lot of people want a darker Dragon Age Inquisition,  that uses some of the cut mechanics that we saw in the earlier trailers. I've  been thinking about an expansion that utilizes these things, and I've come up with some rough ideas. Remember this is just for discussion, so try not to act like it is really going to happen. lol Also yes, this is a rather long post...I'm sure that people can see that, there is no need for more comments on it. lol
 

Tentative Expansion Title:

 

Hell Calls Hell  *a Latin proverb*

 

Themes: Love & Hate, Undead, Power, War & Sanity, Religion & Sectarianism, Society & Politics.

 

The Inquisition is split between the new Divine, and those who remain loyal to the Inquisitor. The conflict starts 1 year after the rift crisis. The new conflict lasts a year, to a year and a half.

 

This is written with some examples of past choices that can have a more meaningful effect in this expansion. This expansion is set mostly in Nevarra. Throughout the expansion, the Inquisitor who once saved Thedas-now surrounded by the odium, and profound insanity of war s/he has caused-questions his/her role of power in society in relation to his/her actions and own sanity. This is impressed on the Inquisitor, via the pitiless atmosphere of the conflict itself (sectarian wars are usually the worst), and the game that s/he and the Divine are now engaged in. It is also expressed through the rending of the Nevarran countryside, and every character interaction made with old companions/friends, and the citizens affected by the war.

 

Background and Consequences:
 

The prelude to conflict is the Divine and the Inquisitor having differing ideas concerning Southern Thedas (I have a number of ideas, perhaps someone can share some). There can be additional emotional complications and tensions, if the Divine is Cassandra, who romanced the Inquisitor. The new Divine tries to usurp the Inquisitor, but only gets half of the inquisition to support her. Since the world is not exactly threatened by any big bad (well... depending on your interpretation) it makes sense that the Chantry might try to assimilate the Inquisition instead of continuing to play nice. Some might argue that fighting the new Divine, makes the player's choice in the main game moot. However, the player did not really get to choose exactly who they wanted to be Divine, they don't have much agency in that choice, the game mechanic calculates a decision for them (this is important to keep in mind for later).

           
The schism can be exacerbated through Chantry propaganda, e.g. if the Inquisitor stated that s/he is a non-believer in the Maker. There are troubles in the sociopolitical order for both factions. Believing Nobles will find offence (they will go over to either faction). When the Inquisitor refuses to abdicate his/her power to the new Divine, the court of Nevarra without delay, declares war on the Inquisitor. Nevarra is hoping to position itself as protector of the Chantry, thus ensuring its power and prestige, if it is victorious against the Inquisitor.

          
Orlais however, for the time being, will sit on the fence. Orlais is not quite ready for renewed war, they also understand that the present Divine is rather new and does not yet have that much sway over the people. Furthermore, even though the Inquisitor might have said that they don't believe (this is just running off the aforementioned example) that they are chosen, the actual citizenry take this as heavenly modesty inculcated in the Inquisitor. The people still believe that the Inquisitor was saved by Andraste in the fade, and gives most of their support to the Inquisitor. Orlais sees this as a potential checkmate in the present game, and depending on who the Divine is, Orlais might see the Inquisitor as being more useful in the Game. Meaning the Emperor/Empress might lend support to a side that looks like it will win (they might lean more so towards the inquisitor due to Nevarra's involvement). There is also ahope in the Orlaisian camp, that they can put a puppet Divine on the throne. The Van Markhams hope that they might do the same. Antiva officially stays out of the conflict; the crows lend their support to the Inquisitor, especially if the Divine is Cassandra or Vivienne. Leliana makes obtaining the Crows more difficult. If Leliana is Divine the Crows become a wild card. Ferelden is unsure of who to support, they have much of the same issues as Orlais, so they try to stay out of it. Varric might be pushed to contact Isabela, who can lend a pirate armada to the Inquisitor. Varric needs to be convinced that it is for the right reasons.
 

  Initially for the Chantry:                          

 

-Nevarra, Markus (or if he has one, his mortalitasi puppet master).                                                             

 

-Half of the Inquisition 

 

-Some of the Nobility  

  

-A minority of the Citizenry                      

 

-Five Knights of the Divine (I have not thought of a better name)

 

-Starkhaven

 

-Mercenaries

 

-Mortalitasi

 

 

Contested:

 

-Orlais 

 

-The Seekers if (applicable)

 

-Pirates (though favoring the Inquisitor)

 

-Red Jennies

 

-Clandestine Ferelden Support

 

-Varric's Contacts

 

-Dwarves

 

-Elves

 

-Tal vashoth

 

-Avvar (if JOH is N/A)

 

-Different Free Marcher states

 

 

 

The Inquisitor:

 

-Half of the Inquisition

 

-(Possibly) The Crows                    

 

-Majority of the Citizenry

 

-Some of the Nobility

 

-Mercenaries

 

-Wardens (if recruited)

 

-Mages or Templars (if recruited)

 

-(Depending on Origin) Ostwick, Elven clan, Tal Vashoth, Dwarves

 

-Avvar (if jaws of Haakon was completed)

 

-Possibly the Van Markhams

 

 

In this expansion, the Inquisitor can actually lose depending on their actions, who they recruit and other decisions made during the conflict. The expansion can center on an increasingly hopeless situation, (if the inquisitor does poorly). To put it into perspective, the Inquisitor who is losing is like Milton's Satan (a trope), a leader with charisma once exalted amongst his peers, but is later 'ruined' after a failed coup d'état. In book IV of Paradise Lost, Milton's Satan finally comes to grips with his situation, but throughout his soliloquies, his sanity diminishes. As Milton's Satan puts it in book IV
 

Which way I fly is Hell; my self am Hell;

And in the lowest deep a lower deep

Still threatening to devour me opens wide,

To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n.

O then at last relent: is there no place

Left for Repentance, none for Pardon left?

 

The answer he finds within himself is no, his situation is hopeless; his very nature is opposed to what Milton calls "The Father". Yet Milton's Satan will not give up, even though he is destined to lose, forever. He decides to maintain the opposition, because he is conflict, hell, there is no going back. Instead of a literary example, there are historical examples that could add to this idea; the campaigns of Hannibal Barca, Leon Trotsky, Julius Caesar, and Napoleon Bonaparte are all good historical examples to draw from, they are all people who sought out conflict, and continued their struggle, some of them knowing that it was a losing game.

An Inquisitor who succeeds in his/her endeavors, might be comparable to king Henry the 4th (with Iron Bull as John Falstaff  lol). Fredrick the Great, Scipio Africanus, Sulla, and Alexander are some historical examples to draw from. A victorious Inquisitor would need to win over certain factions, or at least make sure the more powerful ones don't go over to the Divine's side. Some conditions for victory (working of off the chart above) might include an alliance with the Van Markhams, then having the Crows assassinate Markus, thus putting the Van Markhams on the Nevarran throne. Which would take away a chunk of the Divine's military support; but the Divine might have won over the Orlaisians due to a mistake that the Inquisitor made, and so on (insert different scenario) etc.

Returning Characters: Iron Bull, The current Divine (Cassandra, Leliana, Vivienne), Sera, Varric (might need to be convinced), Cole, Josephine (if romanced she stays with the Inquisitor), Dorrian if romanced, (I assume that he stays if romanced), Cullen, though he might have to be manipulated to stay with the Inquisitor and fight against the new Divine.

 

 

A Rough Idea of an Opening Scene:

 

The scene opens up in a muddy battlefield where the Inquisitor's forces are routing Nevarran forces. There are burnt out houses everywhere, some time before the battle people were uprooted from their homes; bodies mingle in the muck. The Inquisitor is screaming "Forward!" Out of the smoke of war, in the midst of the rout a heavily armored knight, quite unnerving, seems to materialize from within the gyre. Gradually from the mess of war, he enters into the Inquisitor's view and they duel. *I love the idea of opening with a boss fight, especially if it is in an expansion to a game, by then most people are used to the combat. The idea is that the "Divine" sends five mysterious knights to track down and try to kill the Inquisitor. It's interesting to try and contemplate how surreal such a moment would be, on the verge of winning a battle, being filled with adrenalin, and then a horrifying figure seems to just appear from the hysterical gyre to take everything away.* The duel shifts from the scene to the boss battle.

 

I would have the knights near on par with the Inquisitor. Like they have the same training (or higher level skills), so it feels like either can lose, and if the player is lazy they will lose. So either the player defeats this knight, or they lose and there is a scene where the knight wounds the Inquisitor, then tries to drown him/her in the mud. If this happens Iron Bull and Sera and or the chargers save the Inquisitor (an early sign of what of what might come to pass? The Inquisitor is wounded, but the first battle is won). The knights should show up at random after story points, at inconvenient times, sometimes they fight in teams of two.

As for other other characters, depending if they stayed, they might be leading other parts of the Inquisitor's forces,  they rendvous with the Inquisitor later after the opening.

 

A Rough Idea for a Side Mission:

 

The Inquisitor (who might be wounded), Iron Bull (with or without chargers), and Serra are on horseback (multiple horses might not be possible in game, but it would be nice to see it happen) they stop near a small newly razed farm, on the outskirts of a small Inquisition controlled village. Sera will explore the farm whether you do or not. Inside the farm there are a number of corpses. One in particular is positioned as though it were clawing towards a room. Serra walks out holding a crying baby, and begins to berate the Inquisitor for the war and threatens to have the Jennies retaliate. Bull tries to calm her down, and grabs the baby, at this point the inquisitor can try to talk Serra down, if s/he is successful Serra stays, if not she leaves and poses a threat, or while s Serra is distracted by Bull, the Inquisitor can cut Serra's throat *Hell Calls Hell*. Afterwards you must try and find somewhere relatively safe for the baby. In the village a group of chevaliers who left Orlais to join the Inquisitor's forces, are harassing the people, and looking to let slip the dogs of war. The Inquisitor can intervene, and kill most of the chevaliers, or deem them too important for the war, and let them be. If they are left to their gruesome business, the baby cannot get safe haven from the village. If Serra is still alive she will look after the baby *frightening*.

 

Possible End Goal for the Expansion:

 

Sieze the Sunburst throne.

New Map, Nevarra:

 

Three different battlefields, an ancient Nevarran Necropolis, Val Chevain and or Cumberland  *Cumberland would be quite large (this might requier too many resources), and would need to be filled with lots of neat things. It would make sense to occupy such an important city of commerce while at war with Nevarra.*

[b10d1v]

Wow

 

Well that certainly is an expansion and it could use some polish- I lost you a few times mainly in the timeline, but it looks like you want flexibility as a parallel project expanding scope.  

Toss the horses too few areas where they are needed and too buggy that is unless "my little pony" is too overwhelming and then there are feasible solutions.

The knights is an interesting concept maybe Sera scouts them and returns with "new mission details" to facilitate the first meeting and your options.  I also think the challenge needs some collaborative goal with the knights maybe some beast they are tracking or conquering some outpost and freeing hostages - helping gains their support.  In any event, very challenging such that Sera and Bull rush to help the hero.

 

Interesting twist for Sera, but with improved behaviors she could be a powerful asset and this should be evident as she scouts and hunts for you/team.  I would even suggest some early samples of new behaviors:  "Sera we need some crafting supplies can you scout the area while hunting and take bull" -a bonus on loot when they return and this will depend on Sera's follower.  For long range Sera might ask "what ya need" and up pops a menu "oh thats, in xx and might take a day or so." -distance from camp determines how long she and team mate are gone.  

And we need something for the hero to do while they are away, something alone or with other team mates. Maybe this is simply rest and recover the first time staying consistent with your example of a wounded inquisitor.

 

There is much work to be done to support these concepts firming up dialog system and a more effective NPC controller to track them and their behaviors as well as extended behaviors, but its a realistic goal.

 

Keep up the good work

[Dai Grepher]

A fine idea. But my Inquisition is one of diplomacy and popularity. It was always on the up and up. My Inquisitor said he didn't know if Andraste saved him, needing proof to say one way or the other. When it was proven that Justinia helped him he told the world the truth. So I don't think people would still believe Andraste saved him in that worldstate.

 

My Inquisitor picked Vivienne to be Divine, and that is how the clerics voted. So any animosity between the Chantry and Inquisition would have to start with Vivienne, which for her is entirely possible. I helped her with her personal quest and we saw eye to eye on almost everything. So I don't see many options for her to cause a ruckus with the Inquisition. Two possibilities. She reinstates the templars and continues the practice of hooking them to lyrium. My Inquisitor opposed making templars lyrium addicts. Thus some templars go with the Chantry and some stay with the Inquisition and follow Cullen's example. Vivienne might want all templar power under her control. The creation of an alternate order of lyrium-free templars who can still use all the templar powers either because of training or because they become Seekers thanks to Cassandra and Cole would undoubtedly threaten to end the original templar order forever. Vivienne needs the templars to keep the mages from rebelling again.

 

The second option is Vivienne might try to take control of the Inquisition by claiming her authority as Divine allows her to recall the Inquisition and absorb it back into the Chantry. This would lead Cassandra to point out that the Inquisition was always an independent organization that chose to serve the Chantry. Thus the Inquisition has always had autonomy in this matter. Vivienne could counter that the Inquisition should return to its purpose of service to the Chantry since under her the Chantry is a beacon of hope, peace, and prosperity. Thus the decision to rejoin would be left to the Inquisitor to decide. In any case, Vivienne might try to recall Cassandra to service depending on how shrewd she is. My Inquisitor is in a romance with Cassandra. Would Vivienne break them up to gain more power, even if she considers them both friends? She would know that Cassandra would heed the call to service to the new Divine. And so it would again be up to the Inquisitor to decide to join her, or not, or perhaps appoint a new Inquisitor.

 

I think regardless of who is Divine, another conflict that would fit the scenario is that of researching elven lore. Discoveries such as elven symbols being found at the ruins of the Temple of Andraste, or all the info regarding Mythal and the elven pantheon, might be seen as a threat to the Chant of Light. An Inquisition that seeks to uncover this knowledge would cause friction with the Chantry, which would consider the endeavor to be heresy and blasphemy. This would be especially true if the Inquisitor is the one under Mythal's compulsion.

 

But I think ultimately the Chantry would want to work with the Inquisition to solve problems and defeat threats. I think a better story would be to go after the elven false gods such as Mythal. This would tie into the compulsion of the Well of Sorrows and who is under that compulsion. One possibility of getting rid of it is to use the Rite of Tranquility to sever connection to the Fade. Then having Cole reawaken the tranquil. If this is done on the Inquisitor, then the anchor may be lost as well. Or this might not work at all because of the anchor. It might work on Morrigan though, if she can be found.

[Andres Hendrix]

Wow

 

Well that certainly is an expansion and it could use some polish- I lost you a few times mainly in the timeline, but it looks like you want flexibility as a parallel project expanding scope.  

Toss the horses too few areas where they are needed and too buggy that is unless "my little pony" is too overwhelming and then there are feasible solutions.

The knights is an interesting concept maybe Sera scouts them and returns with "new mission details" to facilitate the first meeting and your options.  I also think the challenge needs some collaborative goal with the knights maybe some beast they are tracking or conquering some outpost and freeing hostages - helping gains their support.  In any event, very challenging such that Sera and Bull rush to help the hero.

 

Interesting twist for Sera, but with improved behaviors she could be a powerful asset and this should be evident as she scouts and hunts for you/team.  I would even suggest some early samples of new behaviors:  "Sera we need some crafting supplies can you scout the area while hunting and take bull" -a bonus on loot when they return and this will depend on Sera's follower.  For long range Sera might ask "what ya need" and up pops a menu "oh thats, in xx and might take a day or so." -distance from camp determines how long she and team mate are gone.  

And we need something for the hero to do while they are away, something alone or with other team mates. Maybe this is simply rest and recover the first time staying consistent with your example of a wounded inquisitor.

 

There is much work to be done to support these concepts firming up dialog system and a more effective NPC controller to track them and their behaviors as well as extended behaviors, but its a realistic goal.

 

Keep up the good work

Thanks for your comment; I think multiple horses would be more for immersion instead of something in the gameplay itself. Maybe it is too buggy to show something like a cavalry unit in a cutscene, maybe the cost of animating it is frivolous, I don't know. I do know that we might ask how a military on the move gets their stuff around e.g. their war wagons, and their siege equipment etc. Also, is there a cavalry (heavy cataphracts for shock attacks, what about light cavalry for flanking, or for running down soldiers that are routed)? We might ask why the commanders don't use horses to get themselves across to the other side of the battle line more quickly. Furthermore, soldiers can't be moving heavy wagons and siege equipment over a long distance on their own, this would be unreasonable. I assume the Inquisition will have to march over a good chunk of Oralis to get to Nevarra. The other option would be to cross the Waking Sea (which means getting ships), and,depending on mobility, staying around Cumberland. Maybe the horses/mounts can  be represented 'statically'? Different types: light, cataphracts, work horses for pulling the war wagons etc. It would add to the immersion. What we need is a contingent of battle nugs, for shock and awe. XD lol

As for the Five Knights of the Divine, I was thinking, since there is mortalitasi involvement in this expansion; why not make these knights the product of some kind of old necromancy experiment? These monstrous knights are tasked to hunt down the Inquisitor on the orders of the Nevarran court (who have gained a lot of sway over the chantry), or a high ranking mortalitasi. Maybe the Divine's Knights are a particular group of undead arcane warriors? They are specifically a Nevarran faction, and could be a group of mortalitasi who discovered the ways of the arcane warrior many years ago, from sources they found pertaining to the ancient elves. Each warrior could have a theme that alludes to the Inquisitor, or connects symbolically. To put this into better perspective, an example would be like how Batman's villains are said to have a symbolic connection with Batman. Yet I would try to make it a bit more subtle.

One of the problems that I had with ol'Cory was how we beat him so soundly. It's as though his purpose was to be the catalyst that drove the new Inquisitor into existence, so there could be a new powerful institution in the series. All Corypheus does to us is take away Haven. We really do mop the floor with him, we take away his supply of red lyrium, his demon army, we ruin his plans at the Winter Palace, we take away his time magic, or envy demon etc. On the grand scale, the World is threatened by Corypheus, yet oddly enough it does not feel all that dreadful, because as mentioned, we mop the floor with Corypheus. I think what these knights could be, is a real sense of dread for the player. They are there to specially hunt your Inquisitor. Instead of making these knights into a problem for the whole of Thedas (macro issues would be expressed through military choices), they are more personal challenges for the player. Instead of getting a game over screen when you lose to a Knight, the player's inquisitor gets a new and specific wound that acts as a reminder, and can add up in different ways. If you don't beat the Knight in question, maybe next time two show up instead of one.

If you lose to the Knights  a certain number of times, presuming there is still a power meter, then maybe this lowers the morale of your troops causing desertion, an effect that bleeds the power meter. One idea for an encounter, (other than the first one already mentioned) would be in the Necropolis. I can imagine the Inquisitor being cut off from the rest of the party, then trying to make his/her way back to them. When walking by a dark passageway all of a sudden an armored figure lands a mighty blow sending the Inquisitor through a wall into another room with destructible objects, then the boss charges in and the battle commences. I like the idea of the knights being randomized (but showing up at inconvenient story points), randomizing the knights means that the differing skills and tactics might take a player by surprise.


On Sera: Sera, or another rouge with those enhanced behaviors as a scout is an excellent idea, and I agree that she would be a very good asset. I'm not sure how good she would be at setting up meetings between factions that are not plebian. Her character does not seem to have patients for any kind of politics, especially if it pertains to the upper stratum lol. That might need to be accounted for. Sera might be good at scouting, however she is bad at diplomacy, Varric might be the oppiste of this etc.I do like the idea of missions that can bring more people over to your side, or the possibility of turning people from the Divine's cause to your own. Or sending your spy agents into the battlefiled to assassinate people would be pretty cool. As for killing Sera, I just used that as an example of a gritty side mission. Maybe another character could take her place in that situation, or it could happen later on in the game when her scouting skills are not as important.

I concur that such an exapnaison is a lot of work, story wise, and mechanicly. lol

[Andres Hendrix]

A fine idea. But my Inquisition is one of diplomacy and popularity. It was always on the up and up. My Inquisitor said he didn't know of Andraste saved him, needing proof to say one way or the other. When it was proven that Justinia helped him he told the world the truth. So I don't think people would still believe Andraste saved him in that worldstate.

 

My Inquisitor picked Vivienne to be Divine, and that is how the clerics voted. So any animosity between the Chantry and Inquisition would have to start with Vivienne, which for her is entirely possible. I helped her with her personal quest and we saw eye to eye on almost everything. So I don't see many options for her to cause a ruckus with the Inquisition. Two possibilities. She reinstates the templars and continues the practice of hooking them to lyrium. My Inquisitor opposed making templars lyrium addicts. Thus some templars go with the Chantry and some stay with the Inquisition and follow Cullen's example. Vivienne might want all templar power under her control. The creation of an alternate order of lyrium-free templars who can still use all the templar powers either because of training or because they become Seekers thanks to Cassandra and Cole would undoubtedly threaten to end the original templar order forever. Vivienne needs the templars to keep the mages from rebelling again.

 

The second option is Vivienne might try to take control of the Inquisition by claiming her authority as Divine allows her to recall the Inquisition and absorb it back into the Chantry. This would lead Cassandra to point out that the Inquisition was always an independent organization that chose to serve the Chantry. Thus the Inquisition has always had autonomy in this matter. Vivienne could counter that the Inquisition should return to its purpose of service to the Chantry since under her the Chantry is a beacon of hope, peace, and prosperity. Thus the decision to rejoin would be left to the Inquisitor to decide. In any case, Vivienne might try to recall Cassandra to service depending on how shrewd she is. My Inquisitor is in a romance with Cassandra. Would Vivienne break them up to gain more power, even if she considers them both friends? She would know that Cassandra would heed the call to service to the new Divine. And so it would again be up to the Inquisitor to decide to join her, or not, or perhaps appoint a new Inquisitor.

 

I think regardless of who is Divine, another conflict that would fit the scenario is that of researching elven lore. Discoveries such as elven symbols being found at the ruins of the Temple of Andraste, or all the info regarding Mythal and the elven pantheon, might be seen as a threat to the Chant of Light. An Inquisition that seeks to uncover this knowledge would cause friction with the Chantry, which would consider the endeavor to be heresy and blasphemy. This would be especially true if the Inquisitor is the one under Mythal's compulsion.

 

But I think ultimately the Chantry would want to work with the Inquisition to solve problems and defeat threats. I think a better story would be to go after the elven false gods such as Mythal. This would tie into the compulsion of the Well of Sorrows and who is under that compulsion. One possibility of getting rid of it is to use the Rite of Tranquility to sever connection to the Fade. Then having Cole reawaken the tranquil. If this is done on the Inquisitor, then the anchor may be lost as well. Or this might not work at all because of the anchor. It might work on Morrigan though, if she can be found.

It might start with Viv, but I would see it come from her disdain for the lower classes, maybe the plebeians turn to their Herald for help and that is what causes the conflict? It really takes very little for a sectarian conflict to form, orthodoxy can make no accord with those who think differently, the complexities come thereafter. As Yeats put it:

 

  "Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity."
 

I can see Cassandra start the conflict over a lovers quarrel with the Inquisitor, it happened with Celine and Briala. If not romanced, her conservative (almost Roman) outlook could diminish some more progressive ideals that the Inquisitor thinks should be supported, e.g. pluralism or free speech. I could see Leliana's totalitarianism, benign or no, being a problem. Diplomacy does not work with an authoritarian outlook, diplomacy is all about giving and taking and how differing power relations affect those two things, totalitarians want to take everything and give nothing in return.

[b10d1v]

I agree we do need to work on Sera's diplomacy skills - you would think all of her networking skills would help - I guess it does, she's cranky.  Still for some of us the inquisitor is rubbing off on her and maybe Leliana can help with that and maybe teach her to walk like a lady.    So maybe we need Leliana or Varric on this endeavor.

 

Yes if you are aligned with Sera this would be at odds with Viv, but they were funny together.

 

Honestly my game was so buggy, I finished it w/o choosing.  But, logically I was looking at Leliana to go help the HoF at some point, so that only left viv and cassy.  

BTW: The keep disagrees, my male mage did not finish, it instead came up with something random a female (used to evaluate gender differences in character creator crashes) that never left Haven beat the game -odd?

[b10d1v]

Cory: With people that tried to play every quest you became overpowered, a problem in the leveling system, and this caused timing errors in the sequence triggers that in some instances crashed the game.  Took me a try or two not because he was hard, but because a sequence hung from me dooling out too much damage.  I had to slow my attacks to complete the game.  Its problems like this that make modding very difficult.

[Monster20862]

I want to be able to visit skyrim and fight real dragons.

[Andres Hendrix]

I want to be able to visit skyrim and fight real dragons.

http://www.amazon.co...keywords=skyrim

[cindercatz]

Very interesting idea. Kudos. I'm not totally sold, only because, if victorious, you'd be immediately nullifying most of the major choices in the game. Also, I'm really very much hoping any expansion will feature the Hero of Ferelden/ Warden Commander, so that kind of precludes getting behind a Chantry Civil War expansion. Might like to see it in a future game though.

 

Anyway, I like your ideas, but I have some thoughts: 

 

-First, you can't lose as a valid import (not down with that), but you can have variable outcomes. The Inquisitor does not become Divine. Get into it in a bit..

 

-Companions:

Cass, Leliana and Vivi (Nevarra, Orlais and The Status Quo):

Can't every companion except maybe Cass and Varric leave? Or go unrecruited? So looking at Cass, she's extremely loyal to the Chantry; I can't see her sticking with the Inquisitor in a rebellion, even if romanced. Rather, I could see her leading the Five Knights if unelected, who I don't think should be undead random encounters, but variable voiced characters with personality, with more scripted ambush type scenes in the vein of that first scene you described. That would make them highlights of the story. The combat system's not great this time out. Leliana is more a toss up, because she's already a bit of a heretic. Hmm.. Honestly, I could see a rift between their ideologies being the catalyst for the split. So how about instead of 'Inquisitor vs. Chantry', there's a factional split around Cass and Leliana, with Nevarra supporting Cass and a weakened Orlais supporting Leliana? The Chantry officially supports whoever is Divine, and the Inquisition splits into two, one loyal to the Chantry, the other declared heretical. Vivi would align with strength, but also the more rigid existing status quo, so I imagine she'd be more in sway, and would get involved regardless of prior recruitment.

 

If Cass is Divine, the Chantry relocates its seat in Nevarra and Vivi joins her. If Leliana is Divine, the Chantry remains in Orlais and Vivi supports her. If Vivi is Divine, she sides with Nevarra and Cass joins her. The Player chooses which side of the schism the (named) Inquisition joins, Chantry or rebel. Maybe you even have the opportunity to switch sides at a later crisis point. Whoever is Divine would not be available as a companion in combat.

 

Advisors and other core companions:

I don't think all characters should follow whether the Inquisitor was their LI or not, but some would. Some would follow based on friendship. Others just wouldn't get involved. In the end, I would promote a few mp characters to sp companions loyal to the Inquisitor no matter what, well a warrior loyal to Leli for balance. I'd like to see them involved in the story. Which ones? I don't know them well enough to choose, but one of each class. These would comprise the baseline party, all others failing. (I'll watch some YT and get back to ya.) And an extra mp character mage, because of a dirth of mages available in most playthroughs, maybe split faction loyalty. I'll say a few should be killable, but not Sera (because she needs plot armor for future games). I'll mark them k or u for who I think should be killable or unkillable. If a character can't be an enemy, I lean toward unkillable unless it's a major scripted death ala Thane etc. Maybe a potential loss of the promoted characters. Any companion death scene should be suitably epic and/or poignant, not just a combat kill. They'd be available as party members unless marked unavailable.

 

Josephine- Leli faction, noncombatant, u

Cullen- Cass faction unless romanced, k

Leliana- Leli faction leader, unavailable, k

Cassandra- Cass faction if Vivi is Divine, k

Vivienne- Chantry faction unless Divine, k

Varric- not available, wouldn't get involved, u

Solas- not available, otherwise engaged, u

Cole- Inquisitor faction if friend and humanized (could be a bad thing), otherwise absent, u

Sera- Inquisitor faction if friend/romanced, otherwise absent, u

Iron Bull- Inquisitor faction if friend/romanced, otherwise enemy, k

Blackwall- Inquisitor faction if pardoned, otherwise dead or absent, u

Dorian- Inquisitor faction if romanced, otherwise absent, u

Korbin - Leli faction, k (legionaire on loan)

(Leaked Rogue ) - Inquisitor faction, u

Sidony - Cass faction, k (mortalitasi, sounds awesome )

Zither - Leli faction, u (a real bard with music, c'mon )

 

So a maximum party companion list by faction, would look something like..

Cass Divine        Cass Rebel       Leli Divine        Leli Rebel        Vivi Divine 

Cullen                 Cullen              (Cullen R)         (Cullen R)          Cassandra

Vivienne             Cole F&H          Vivienne          Cole F&H          Cullen

Cole F&H            Sera F/R           Cole F&H          Sera F/R          Cole F&H

Sera F/R             Iron Bull F/R     Sera F/R          Iron Bull F/R    Sera F/R

Iron Bull F/R      Blackwall P       Iron Bull F/R   Blackwall P      Iron Bull F/R

Blackwall P        Dorian R           Blackwall P     (Dorian R)         Blackwall P

Dorian R            (leaked r)         (Dorian R)          Korbin             Dorian R

(leaked r)           Sidony               Korbin             (leaked r)        (leaked r)

Sidony                                         (leaked r)           Zither              Sidony

                                                      Zither

 

Minimum party: 

Cass Divine        Cass Rebel        Leli Divine        Leli Rebel        Vivi Divine

Cullen                 Cullen                Vivienne           Korbin              Cassandra 

Vivienne            (leaked r)           Korbin              (leaked r)          Cullen 

(leaked r)            Sidony              (leaked r)          Zither              (leaked r)

Sidony                                           Zither                                          Sidony

 

-The Five Knights:

I love this idea of an elite nemesis stalking your Inquisitor at every turn, but as stated, I'd make full characters with defined personalities and motivations out of them. Also do away with the random battle element and make each confrontation a memorable story highlight. I'd pick six more mp characters to elevate, two loyal to Leliana, two loyal to the Navarra faction, one pure Rebel, and one purely antagonistic to the Inquisitor for some event early in the story. These along with the alternate companion Mage and Vivi or Cass if against the Chantry would comprise The Five Knights.

 

My choice for the Five Knights by enemy faction (cannot be possible companions per playthrough):

Cass Divine        Cass Rebel        Leli Divine        Leli Rebel        Vivi Divine

Vivienne             Sidony               Korbin               Zither              Cassandra 

Sidony                Belinda              Zither                Argent             Sidony     

Belinda               Argent               Argent              Neria                Belinda

Argent                Hall                    Neria                 Cillian               Argent

Katari                  Katari                 Cillian                Hall                  Katari

 

What do you think?

I love the rest of it, companions being able to be tasked with scouting or diplomacy etc., the emphasis on larger battles and sieges, new city location, all that. I'd also expect more drama, romance, cameraderie etc. in any expansion.

[Andres Hendrix]

Very interesting idea. Kudos. I'm not totally sold, only because, if victorious, you'd be immediately nullifying most of the major choices in the game. Also, I'm really very much hoping any expansion will feature the Hero of Ferelden/ Warden Commander, so that kind of precludes getting behind a Chantry Civil War expansion. Might like to see it in a future game though.

 

Anyway, I like your ideas, but I have some thoughts: 

 

-First, you can't lose as a valid import (not down with that), but you can have variable outcomes. The Inquisitor does not become Divine. Get into it in a bit..

 

-Companions:

Cass, Leliana and Vivi (Nevarra, Orlais and The Status Quo):

Can't every companion except maybe Cass and Varric leave? Or go unrecruited? So looking at Cass, she's extremely loyal to the Chantry; I can't see her sticking with the Inquisitor in a rebellion, even if romanced. Rather, I could see her leading the Five Knights if unelected, who I don't think should be undead random encounters, but variable voiced characters with personality, with more scripted ambush type scenes in the vein of that first scene you described. That would make them highlights of the story. The combat system's not great this time out. Leliana is more a toss up, because she's already a bit of a heretic. Hmm.. Honestly, I could see a rift between their ideologies being the catalyst for the split. So how about instead of 'Inquisitor vs. Chantry', there's a factional split around Cass and Leliana, with Nevarra supporting Cass and a weakened Orlais supporting Leliana? The Chantry officially supports whoever is Divine, and the Inquisition splits into two, one loyal to the Chantry, the other declared heretical. Vivi would align with strength, but also the more rigid existing status quo, so I imagine she'd be more in sway, and would get involved regardless of prior recruitment.

 

If Cass is Divine, the Chantry relocates its seat in Nevarra and Vivi joins her. If Leliana is Divine, the Chantry remains in Orlais and Vivi supports her. If Vivi is Divine, she sides with Nevarra and Cass joins her. The Player chooses which side of the schism the (named) Inquisition joins, Chantry or rebel. Maybe you even have the opportunity to switch sides at a later crisis point. Whoever is Divine would not be available as a companion in combat.

 

Advisors and other core companions:

I don't think all characters should follow whether the Inquisitor was their LI or not, but some would. Some would follow based on friendship. Others just wouldn't get involved. In the end, I would promote a few mp characters to sp companions loyal to the Inquisitor no matter what. I'd like to see them involved in the story. Which ones? I don't know them well enough to choose, but one of each class. These would comprise the baseline party, all others failing. (I'll watch some YT and get back to ya.) And an extra mp character mage, because of a dirth of mages available in most playthroughs. I'll say a few should be killable, but not Sera (because she needs plot armor for future games). I'll mark them k or u for who I think should be killable or unkillable. If a character can't be an enemy, I lean toward unkillable unless it's a major scripted death ala Thane etc. Maybe a potential loss of the promoted characters. Any companion death scene should be suitably epic and/or poignant, not just a combat kill. They'd be available as party members unless marked unavailable.

 

Josephine- Leli faction, noncombatant, u

Cullen- Cass faction, k

Leliana- Leli faction leader, unavailable, k

Cassandra- Cass faction if Vivi is Divine, k

Vivienne- Chantry faction unless Divine, k

Varric- not available, wouldn't get involved, u

Solas- not available, otherwise engaged, u

Cole- Inquisitor faction if friend and convinced (could be a bad thing), otherwise absent, u

Sera- Inquisitor faction if friend/romanced, otherwise absent, u

Iron Bull- Inquisitor faction if friend/romanced, otherwise enemy, k

Blackwall- Inquisitor faction if pardoned, otherwise dead or absent, u

Dorian- Inquisitor faction if romanced, otherwise absent, u

(Warrior mpc) - Inquisitor faction, k

(Rogue mpc) - Inquisitor faction, k

(Mage mpc) - Inquisitor faction, k

(Mage mpc) - Inquisitor faction, k

 

By lose, I mean in the end something like being striped of your rank and exiled, not killed (this would be decided against by all the Divines for PR, the people still remember the rift crisis, and think of the Inquisitor as Herald). This would leave room for another DLC, all the fan girls want the 'Wolf Hunt' dlc etc. I highly doubt we will ever get an expansion featuring the HOF in Dragon Age Inquisition. It would be odd to have an expansion based on a character that is dead for so many players.

Sera and Iron Bull stay, so to can Blackwall, Varric goes to Kirkwall but might be convinced to come back (as I mentioned above) Cass can stay but it is more likely that for most players she either leads the Seekers of becomes Divine. If she does stay, she would see the war as being against the sitting Divine and not the chantry. The only characters I see fighting aginst the Inquisitor are Vivienne and Leliana (if she is not romanced by the Warden, and out adventuring etc) some will just stay out of it. It is not the intention of the Inquisitor to destroy the chantry. Any characters that do not stay can be replaced by new. As for the Knights, I mentioned in an above post that my idea was for them to be a group of undead mortalitasi who years ago discovered the ways of the arcane warrior, they were able to combine necromancy with their new found arcane skills and have been doing 'wet work' for a clandestine branch of the Nevarran court for hundreds of years. Recently they have gone under the euphemism of "Knights of the Divine," and have been tasked with neutralizing the Inquisitor.  I doubt Cassandra would lead them.

I have not come up with exact reasons for rebellion with every Divine yet, however I did have some basic ideas in a post above.

[cindercatz]

I understand all that. I think a lot of characters would take the standing Chantry's side regardless of relationships, though, especially Cass unless she was the instigator of the split. Varric, as another for instance, would be out of character if he took a side against a friend in a sectarian battle. He'd just warn for calmer heads and dismiss himself, especially considering he doesn't really much care what the Chantry does so long as it's not at his neck. So I'd remove any chance of convincing him to stay. Also, the changes I'm suggesting, what I would do with it, get around the problems of nullifying or dismissing our choices, and allow the story to work if you actually want to side with whoever you got elected Divine. My first Inquisitor would never unseat Leliana and her agenda, for instance. He'd defend her regime.

 

What I was saying about the characters is that with Solas gone, Varric who should be gone, and Cassandra who can be Divine herself, there aren't three other characters who can comprise a party across all possible game states, so in this scenario, you have to replace them. Every other character can leave, be booted, die, or not be recruited in the first place, so that has to be accounted for. It seems like you're mostly thinking about a Cass v. Nevarra thing, but any expansion has to have a broader focus, and if we're talking Nevarra, Cass is the insider there. It'd be alright for a dlc like the Avvar thing we had, but we need more out of an expansion.

 

I'm a lot more interested in seeing new characters get fleshed out and be presented as credible antagonists and/or allies than I am the whole faceless undead thing, which is why I suggest that change for the Knights. The mortalitisi are interesting enough to include thematically, but I'd rather there be a few interesting characters of that ilk involved than treat them as the primary threat. To me, that strikes me more as a man vs. monster scenario, which has never been as interesting as man vs. man to me. I love the nemesis/stalking antagonist group idea at the core level though. And if the scenario were more player choice driven where you choose your own side like I suggested, you'd need two opposing groups of Knights, so there's significant variance depending on your choice. Having a few characters overlap does shave cost however, and you can get some drama out of it. I know my suggestions totally dismiss the whole Hell theme and twist the secularism just a little bit, but honestly I've seen too much of the real thing, so that's intentional. Battling that everyday lately. Hell's at its apex right now as it is in the real world. It's no fun fighting real demons. I prefer to encourage a little counterprogramming in my entertainment where I can. 

 

The Warden Commander is alive in all world states, whether it's the Hero of Ferelden or the Orlesian Warden, so it applies to everybody. If we miss the chance to see them in a game heavily featuring Morrigan, her son, and Leliana, I'm going to be extremely, very much, a lot disappointed. But I've talked about it in other threads.

 

Alright, gonna go back to editing my last post.

Keep workin' on it.

[Andres Hendrix]

Josephine- Leli faction, noncombatant, u

Cullen- Cass faction unless romanced, k

Leliana- Leli faction leader, unavailable, k

Cassandra- Cass faction if Vivi is Divine, k

Vivienne- Chantry faction unless Divine, k

Varric- not available, wouldn't get involved, u

Solas- not available, otherwise engaged, u

Cole- Inquisitor faction if friend and humanized (could be a bad thing), otherwise absent, u

Sera- Inquisitor faction if friend/romanced, otherwise absent, u

Iron Bull- Inquisitor faction if friend/romanced, otherwise enemy, k

Blackwall- Inquisitor faction if pardoned, otherwise dead or absent, u

Dorian- Inquisitor faction if romanced, otherwise absent, u

Korbin - Leli faction, k

(Rogue mpc) - Inquisitor faction, k

(Mage mpc) - Cass faction, k

Zither - Leli faction, u (a real bard with music, c'mon )

 

So a maximum party companion list by faction, would look something like..

Cass Divine        Cass Rebel       Leli Divine        Leli Rebel        Vivi Divine 

Cullen                 Cullen              (Cullen R)         (Cullen R)          Cassandra

Vivienne             Cole F&H          Vivienne          Cole F&H          Cullen

Cole F&H            Sera F/R           Cole F&H          Sera F/R          Cole F&H

Sera F/R             Iron Bull F/R     Sera F/R          Iron Bull F/R    Sera F/R

Iron Bull F/R      Blackwall P       Iron Bull F/R   Blackwall P      Iron Bull F/R

Blackwall P        Dorian R           Blackwall P     (Dorian R)         Blackwall P

Dorian R            (Rogue mpc)   (Dorian R)          Korbin             Dorian R

(Rogue mpc)    (Mage mpc)       Korbin             (Rogue mpc)   (Rogue mpc)

(Mage mpc)                                (Rogue mpc)    Zither               (Mage mpc)

                                                      Zither

 

Minimum party: 

Cass Divine        Cass Rebel        Leli Divine        Leli Rebel        Vivi Divine

Cullen                 Cullen                Vivienne           Korbin              Cassandra 

Vivienne            (Rogue mpc)     Korbin              (Rogue mpc)    Cullen 

(Rogue mpc)     (Mage mpc)      (Rogue mpc)     Zither              (Rogue mpc)

(Mage mpc)                                   Zither                                         (Mage mpc)

 

-The Five Knights:

I love this idea of an elite nemesis stalking your Inquisitor at every turn, but as stated, I'd make full characters with defined personalities and motivations out of them. Also do away with the random battle element and make each confrontation a memorable story highlight. I'd pick eight more mp characters to elevate, three loyal to Leliana, three loyal to the Navarra faction, one pure Rebel, and one purely antagonistic to the Inquisitor for some event early in the story. These along with the alternate companion Mage and Vivi or Cass if against the Chantry would comprise The Five Knights. (I'll research and edit in exactly who.)

 

What do you think?

I love the rest of it, companions being able to be tasked with scouting or diplomacy etc., the emphasis on larger battles and sieges, new city location, all that. I'd also expect more drama, romance, cameraderie etc. in any expansion.

I think the companion factions might need to be utilized but it would be important to keep it as simple as possible. Also companions will need to die, I used Sera as an example, just to give people an idea of what I am going for. It always seems cheap to create a new character just to kill them off (and they are the only ones, the red shirts lol), instead of killing a prior more established character. So I would probably kill off at least one companion from DA:I and maybe one or two new companions (depending on choices). There would have to be new characters loyal to each divine, I concur. If a romanced Cassandra is divine I would build more tension (and make her character more conflicted) by having her take another lover during the war (one of her loyal people). One could imagine what it might do to the Inquisitor if he found out, especially since Cassandra seemingly left him after she was named Divine, because she is a so called "traditionalist".

I agree that it is very important to have a background to each of the Knights, something that Bioware excels at is their histories and biographies, they have always impressed me in that regard. I would not make the knights into some sort of comic book villain, or (in terms of high art) some sort of monologuer like Shakespeare's Iago. Instead, I would try something similar to Dark Souls, I would use the new environments,game histories etc and some dialogue to create a back story for each of the knights--but keep them enigmatic throughout the game. There could be an innocent looking side mission that you can go on to try and figure out who they are, but it turns into a trap where you and a party are forced to face all five (the decison then is to flee or to fight, there would be consequences to choosing either). The Knight battles would be highlights, I was just suggesting that they should be highlights that jolt forward and take you by surprise (something different from the usual build up). lol

I will write some rough back story examples concerning the knights, and post some of it later.

[cindercatz]

Oh, I agree they shouldn't be monologuers or anything like that. And I also like the idea of building up their back stories and making their history a sort of questline unto itself. But I personally wouldn't draw too much from Dark Souls. Not a fan of that ethos. Rather they'd be modern characters, again existing members of the Inquisition, but presented very seriously. They'd each have their own.. well, character, and engage the Inquisitor and/or their allies in different ways on different levels. There should be some back and forth during the confrontation that does deliver their own story progression, without giving up their mystery or telegraphing any next move. Think interaction on the level of Corypheus vs. Inquisitor at Haven, varying according to the characters involved. Usually not as drawn out. Each encounter should be unique. I also completely agree about the surprise factor; I wouldn't want to change that at all.

 

I also agree the new characters shouldn't be red shirted, and I agree an existing companion should be able to die, just not Sera. I struggle to decide who, though. I settled on Cullen, Cassandra, Iron Bull, Vivienne, and Leliana because they could all also be potential enemies, which leaves some of the others untouched for major roles in future games and cuts down on a few import variables. The Chargers and other minor characters would also be open. Maybe Blackwall should be available as well since he can already die in the base game, but I worry that the more often a character can die, the less likely BioWare would be to use them in future. I think he's too interesting to saddle him with two black marks in his first game. But all of that can be alleviated by making some of those deaths more ambiguous, say via severe but survivable injuries. Then the old comic book rule applies: They're not dead 'til you confirm the body. The same would apply to enemy characters you'd be more inclined to feature again. I would like to say most new characters would be unkillable, but the problem is that you could potentially have only two existing characters on your faction, Cass and Cullen or Leliana and Josephine, and they wouldn't be party members (excluding Cullen) in those scenarios. So the drama has to come from somewhere. I'd heavily highlight the new characters to balance against red shirt syndrome. Make sure they have a chance to come into their own.

 

Looking forward to your write-ups. Still editing my last post.

[cindercatz]

Ok, finally finished editing my initial post.

The list of mp characters I would promote to major parts in the expansion shrank a bit, with a final Ten. Four as default companions (one a returning character) depending on the faction choice and six additional that would fill out the Five Knights. 

 

Details above, but for lists' sake: 

Companions: (Returning character), Korbin, Sidony, Zither

"Five Knights" promotions: Argent, Neria & Cillian, Hall, Belinda, Katari

 

The Companions are thematic and mostly just seem like fun characters. The (returning character) is looking for some adventure where the opportunity is at, Sidony is going home gaining strength, Zither is allying with a kindred spirit and his native land, and Korbin is representing dwarven interests while always prepared for a 'good death'. The "Five Knights" are appropriate to fill out their given factions, but also seem to make for interesting stories and encounters. Argent is the universal stalking horse, as that constant killer in the shadows. Hall is earning his self worth as a perineal outsider, so he's chosen as the permanent rebel. Neria and Cillian are supporting the interests of their people while maintaining their cameraderie, Belinda is following her faith, and Katari is following the money.

 

It also ended up an even gender split among the promotions, bonus.

[Dai Grepher]

It might start with Viv, but I would see it come from her disdain for the lower classes, maybe the plebeians turn to their Herald for help and that is what causes the conflict? It really takes very little for a sectarian conflict to form, orthodoxy can make no accord with those who think differently, the complexities come thereafter. As Yeats put it:

 

  "Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity."
 

I can see Cassandra start the conflict over a lovers quarrel with the Inquisitor, it happened with Celine and Briala. If not romanced, her conservative (almost Roman) outlook could diminish some more progressive ideals that the Inquisitor thinks should be supported, e.g. pluralism or free speech. I could see Leliana's totalitarianism, benign or no, being a problem. Diplomacy does not work with an authoritarian outlook, diplomacy is all about giving and taking and how differing power relations affect those two things, totalitarians want to take everything and give nothing in return.

 

I don't know. I think so long as the Inquisition supports the Chantry and the Chant of Light, even Viv would be allied with it. Only if the Inquisition started to turn people away from the Chant or started working with the mage rebellion would Viv step in. Viv would also understand that a war with the Inquisition would have no winner.

 

Celene and Briala are selfish and reckless. Cassandra is not, and she even sneers at Celene's behavior and the fact that the Inquisition is there to help her. I don't think Cass would create a conflict over something so frivolous. She understands the cost of war, and that people should not die for anything but the best of causes. I actually found Cass' position more moderate actually.

 

Leliana I find to be crazier than a rat in a larder. She's a problem regardless. There are actually three options with her. If you didn't do her personal quest, then she does not respond to the dissidents and it is implied that the Chantry is going to split apart because of it. In the hardened outcome she murders the dissidents. This could cause an uprising later on. The third option is that she persuades everyone to be at peace. This one is a little tougher to turn into a conflict, but you might say that a shadow order is plotting to overthrow her, thinking she has gone soft. Perhaps if Marjoline is still alive she can have some involvement in this.

 

 I know what you mean about diplomacy and totalitarianism, I'm just saying my Inquisition tries the peaceful route first. If the other side rejects that, then what happens to them when I resort to harsh tactics is all on them.

[Dai Grepher]

For anyone who is interested, check out a clip of another video game in the link below. Watch it till the end of the battle (at about 22:22). I know everything is in Japanese, but give it a quick look. You'll be able to tell what's going on. You can look in on different regions you control and set the general direction of what you want your people to work on in that area. Then you can send supplies to the front lines and manage your troop movements.

 

https://youtu.be/glTsIjovdSM?t=17m25s

 

I think Dragon Age could turn the Chore Table into something similar to this. In fact, this is what I was expecting to some extent. I think it would be awesome to have old faces show up for your generals and lords, like Cullen or Cass, or for other countries Ser Cauthrien or Ser Landry if they lived, or almost any of the banns and arls. Teyrn Fergus for sure. There could be multiple factions as well. Orlais, Tevinter, Nevarra, Orzammar, Inquisition, Free Marches, Ferelden, Qunari, White and Black Chantries, and then smaller groups like the Blades of Hessarian, the Venatori, Darkspawn, etc. All with their own generals.

 

And I'm not saying the whole game would be like this, but a small part of it would be at certain points in the game where you would have to move troops and take over an area first. Or what Andres Hendrix is talking about if the Chantry and other groups went to war for some reason. I think it should play out something like this. That way you can see actual troop movements and fighting, not just read about it in some letters.

[Andres Hendrix]

History of the Five Knights of the 'Divine':

 

After King Tylus Van Markham was dragged off the battlefield by his soldiers in Ghislain, it's said that the Emperor of Orlais could feel the Nevarran King's curses of hatred all the way in Val Royeaux. King Tylus' nation state would never again fall to foreign occupation, or at least, if such an enterprise was to be instigated against Nevarra, the Kings, and nobility of the aggressors would suffer unimaginable deaths.  Thus five mortalitasi descended into an elven crypt in search of an old power. This power would only loose itself from the bindings of ancient wards, if the death mages loosed the life from their own bodies. Each gave themselves, and were subsumed in an endless sacrament of hatred, war, suffering and death.  Beneath the five ages of smoke and blood that is Nevarra, there are dark whispers, spoken in fear and ignorance; monsters are poised to reap terror and punish those that dare to think that they can conquer the state that opines, "Long Live Death!" This group of knights has no true faction title; they are spoken of like myth, always as a euphemism. Sometime they are called "The Six" instead of "The Five," the "Shimmering Knights of Andraste" is another. It is feared that mentioning them too acutely will curse oneself with a shortened existence, of pain and destruction.

 

Knight Gundahar (The Dire Flame):

 

The "Dire Flame" an epithet awarded to the beast that melted the flesh off of the storm dragon "Roffspar".  In 8:83 Blessed, anomalous horror struck Hasmal near the Silent Plains. One night the air became searing, the lungs of those who got too close melted. Strung to posts were men and women wearing the armor of the Free Army, Hessarian's mercy in no way reached them. In their voices were the pangs of death throes, the only thing left to a soldier in that situation. Their voices woke the country side, their fire burning all the innocents who just happened to live in the area. You see, it could not be proven that the special unit of the Free Army was being harbored by Hasmal, it did not matter. To this day the smell of charred flesh and burnt hair clings to countryside, a reminder etched into the minds of the people, that both haunts the Free Marcher intelligence community, and the generals. Does one dare search for this beast, face it down, and look it in the eye?

 

Knight Brandt (The Hydra):

 

Trained in the old ways of the spear and round shield, Knight Brandt "The Hydra" was perhaps a dragon hunter. In the Age of Steel 6:30, an entire unit of Orlaisian Calvary was excavated in a mass grave outside of Val Chevin, many of the horses had been struck with a great force straight through the top of their skulls, these were odd and mysterious wounds indeed. It is said that inside of the Plansene Forest, there is a swamp where a monstrous Hydra lurks. Dragon hunters have gone in search to no avail, one such hunter Celesta Pentaghast said, "It was raining, dark, the swamp was full of sink holes, my boots were full of mud, I was half feverish, then to my stride I saw a lonely stalwart figure holding, a staff or a spear with multiple points, each looked like a sharpened serpent, or perhaps more draconic like. This would not be all that unusual, however, he wore an armor that was very strange, it  looked ancient (it was strangely beautiful), glowing bright blue, but what unnerved me was the fact that it looked as though he was wearing three helms...Yes, as in three heads, I promptly turned around to seek out medical attention."

 

The Pallid Knight, Dietrich:

 

From the time of the Exalted Age to the last age past, how many champions of Orlais, and the Free Marches mysteriously diapered leaving nothing, except maybe a spattering of blood? At least twenty five... Historians and investigators have thought all of the twenty five to be in some way connected, but the idea of a murderer, or copy cats lasting for five ages is absurd...At least that is what many hope. There are two known accounts about one of these champions, Gislain, right before she disappeared into obscurity. One from her old mentor to Gislan;s lover Eckhart. The other is a diary entry now used as a note given by the infamous Antivan Crows to new initiates. The note concerns Gislain's disappearance as well.

From Matriarch Melanie to Gislan's lover, Eckhart:

"Dear Eckhart,

First I must say that I cannot even fathom how it must be not to know. When my Philip died in battle, I at least had the solace of knowing that he had died; so I offer you my deepest sympathy. If you ever feel the need for someone to talk to, please come visit me her in Hercinia--Gislain and I held conversation many times throughout her life, she used to call me Nan, and I like to think she taught me as much as I taught her.

Gislain, as you well know was a beautiful person who glowed like a  sunset in the summer. She was kind; much of what she earned from adventuring was given to the orphanage she grew up in. Her light and smile along with her determination and bravery made her much loved by the people here in Hercinia. But on this particular day, she walked despondently through the spice market that she loved so much as a child. There was a shiver in her breathing, and she would stop occasionally to take in the smells. She finally ended her sad walk over by the pier. I watched her a good while as she stared out at the sea, no one went to her, it was the oddest thing, it hurt me to see her so, standing off by herself, seemingly pondering the heartless sea...

No one went to her, for this I feel ashamed, I loved her as though she was my own granddaughter, and I was too paralyzed by dread to simply ask her what was the matter. I cannot explain it, but it felt as though she was marked, by what, I do not know. The next day she was just gone, no one has seen her since. As for what and who could have led to her disappearance, my son told me that there was talk around the taverns that Gislain had been traveling outside of Cumberland, she was hunting for rabbits when she came across a Pentaghast nobel about to have his way with a young boy. Gislain promptly dismounted and slew the bastard (excuse my language) and took the child back to his folks. This Nobel is said to have had ties with a mortlaitasi named Hansing. I would never suggest harming someone for information, but if one were looking I might suggest pressing on Ser Hansing what a terrible loss Gislain is, and how he should, in his best interest, cooperate in finding her...

If she is still out there, bring her home.

Matriarch Melanie."

An Account from a Crow: "This 'mission', if it can be called that, is a **** show. Gislain will not be found. The client will have to let her go. If I am to die, and this is all that is left, then first...Boss, I know he is your kin, but that should be more incentive for you to convince him to stay away from this. I am getting out while I still have a chance, Nox, and Bores are dead or worse. Nox was the fastest bow we ever saw, I personally saw her hit twenty targets dead center in under a minute, this thing (unintelligible due to a blood stain that was on the page). Bores, I felt his blood hit my face; he was standing right next to me and then all of a sudden...ligaments (unintelligible). I might not make it back, but if this note is found, Boss, my brothers and sisters, this is not a true loss for us, because this is not even a mission, all that you will find here, is your own death and misery."

There is no description for Dietrich...

 

Knight Rosche (The Fiend):

Killer of Cade Arvale, the Fiend walks in horned armor as black as night,

That gleams as though touched by the fade. The maker turned his gaze from us

And now the Fiend walks the land; dust and rot fall in his wake, oh maker

Take me if his hands should fall upon my door; take me before the horned Fiend comes.

When Cade Arvle fell, all was black, and the Earth learned of fear and dust of man

Arvle cried in the hour of dusk, for the fiend took from him all honor, dignity then life.

 

Tyrelus van Mors:

An even more unfathomable character, obscured by disturbing ash colored armor. A versatile and skilled warrior, that fights with his great sword "Anaísthitos." He has either forsaken the title of Ser for the moniker of 'livingdead', or was never knighted to begin with. Nevertheless, he wields the cold edge of death with an efficiency that even his compatriots seem to respect--if monsters can feel such a thing...

[Andres Hendrix]

 I know what you mean about diplomacy and totalitarianism, I'm just saying my Inquisition tries the peaceful route first. If the other side rejects that, then what happens to them when I resort to harsh tactics is all on them.

The thing about totalitarianism is that it implicates you in its war whether or not it takes you weeks wasting your time with diplomacy, to figure out how badly you've been fooled.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't think weeks would be wasted. There would be outreach, rejection, then response. One week, tops. Contingency plans would be devised immediately.

[Andres Hendrix]

I don't think weeks would be wasted. There would be outreach, rejection, then response. One week, tops. Contingency plans would be devised immediately.

That's not how it ever works in real life. Poland and  Czechoslovakia during WWII, Bosnia & Kosovo, Rwanda, what ISIS is doing right now. Look at all the times the West has drug its loafered feet, or went the so called diplomatic route, when it should have been putting boots on the ground--look at the cost.  All of those instances took months, it took months for NATO to intervene in Bosnia (which ended up being actual success for NATO, pity intervention did not happen earlier) and Kosvo. Rwanda was practically hung off the bough of the UN. When facing a totalitarian and murderous threat, all diplomacy and waiting will do is put you at a disadvantage, and cost many people their lives. I guess in a video game like any fiction,it could be written otherwise.

[Dai Grepher]

I usually reject real world examples applied to fantasy worlds, and while I get that ordinary men will suffer evils so long as evils are sufferable, I still find myself rejecting your real world examples applied to the Inquisition, particularly my Inquisition. If Vivienne were to start some conflict against the Inquisition, the Inquisition would stand ready, as Morrigan says in the epilogue. Making an attempt at a peaceful resolution doesn't mean you still can't get your forces ready. The problem is when diplomacy is the only thing you have to play, or are willing to play (i.e. Obama vs. Iran).

[Andres Hendrix]

I usually reject real world examples applied to fantasy worlds, and while I get that ordinary men will suffer evils so long as evils are sufferable, I still find myself rejecting your real world examples applied to the Inquisition, particularly my Inquisition. If Vivienne were to start some conflict against the Inquisition, the Inquisition would stand ready, as Morrigan says in the epilogue. Making an attempt at a peaceful resolution doesn't mean you still can't get your forces ready. The problem is when diplomacy is the only thing you have to play, or are willing to play (i.e. Obama vs. Iran).

Anyway, this is getting a bit off topic. Do you have anything to say about the rough history that I wrote for the five knights?

[Dai Grepher]

Um... sure. First off, did you come up with all of that, or is that based on some canon, like a Dragon Age novel or something?

[Andres Hendrix]

Um... sure. First off, did you come up with all of that, or is that based on some canon, like a Dragon Age novel or something?

All of the dates come from the Dragon Age timeline. Tylus was a canon king of Nevarra, Ghislain was a battle that Nevarra fought agianst Orlais, the places that I mentioned Hasmal etc., are canon. Everything else I made up, for instance I thought Roffspar sounded like a good name for a dragon. lol