276 réponses à ce sujet

[Mihura]

I assume has much, since it was a "public" event and since Sera was in Orlais to being with.

So yes, I can understand her not liking Briala because she has more in common in the nobles of the game than the "little people" but at least hate them all, especially the ones that actually killed a lot of peasants.

In my opinion Sera should only approve of you bring them together and accuse them of being heartless but somehow she does seems to like Celene, so... I guess that is all it takes for her to approve? I see not other explanation.

[Patient.Zero]

Is the burning of the alienage in the books? I haven't read them, but I have heard about their contents. So, as someone who wasn't aware of the things the empress had done in the past, circumstances like Sera approving of her remaining in power and the ending where Celene reunites with Briala seem perfectly fine. Granted they may in fact, not be perfectly fine but they seem as such to someone without the prior knowledge. 

[Heimdall]

Is the burning of the alienage in the books? I haven't read them, but I have heard about their contents. So, as someone who wasn't aware of the things the empress had done in the past, circumstances like Sera approving of her remaining in power and the ending where Celene reunites with Briala seem perfectly fine. Grated they may in fact, not be perfectly fine but they seem as such to someone without the prior knowledge. 

I heard that Sera also approves of Gaspard taking the throne, so I'm inclined to think she's just happy to have the civil war over.

[Mihura]

I heard that Sera also approves of Gaspard taking the throne, so I'm inclined to think she's just happy to have the civil war over.

 

Yes she slightly approves but she also slightly disapproves if you put Gaspard in the throne with Briala, which means the end of the civil war too.
I just think she doesn't like Briala whatever the outcome and not because she is close to be a noble herself.

[Heimdall]

Yes she slightly approves but she also slightly disapproves if you put Gaspard in the throne with Briala, which means the end of the civil war too.
I just think she doesn't like Briala whatever the outcome and not because she is close to be a noble herself.

You're right, it isn't just because she sees Briala as a noble.

 

What you have to remember is that she doesn't believe Briala is actually doing what she does for the elves to start with.  She thinks Briala's appeal to the elves is just a duplicitous stunt for support for a lover's spat with Celene.

[Radgen1]

I think the difference is that Celene and Gaspard are nobles thru and thru and Sera doesn't expect them to act any different.  She doesn't like them, but as long as the Civil War ends, good enough.  The little people they hurt are mostly(though not all) incidental not a central part of there maneuvers in 'The Game".  Briala however appears to Sera to specifically using the little people(in particular elves) and getting them killed in large numbers to forward her own advancement.  This is worse because she came from the little people to begin with. She may or may not have a noble intention, but she is getting a lot of little people involved and killed in her power plays.  Sera has never been a fan of "ends justify the means".  In the end she doesn't think much of any of them but she REALLY dislikes Briala not because she is a elf, or that she is supposedly fighting for elves but because she is getting bunches of them killed.  And as has been noted she is pursuing a policy of extending the Civil War(and so the misery of the little people as well).

 

All three are bad but Sera views Brialla to be a worse offender. 

[Felya87]

Actually, I see Sera and Briala being similar. They both don't care if some of their allies dies (Sera's "they already had a bad life" regarding the people who die helping the Jennies) Briala is simply more accurate and at least have a goal.

[Mihura]

You're right, it isn't just because she sees Briala as a noble.

 

What you have to remember is that she doesn't believe Briala is actually doing what she does for the elves to start with.  She thinks Briala's appeal to the elves is just a duplicitous stunt for support for a lover's spat with Celene.

 

You are probably right on that regard but it is more than a lover's spat, at least for Briala. 

[Heimdall]

You are probably right on that regard but it is more than a lover's spat, at least for Briala. 

To be sure, just pointing out that Sera doesn't believe that.

[Wulfram]

It's possible she disapproves of supporting Briala because that solution is liable to result in more upset and turmoil in the future.

Sera is essentially a conservative who supports stability and the status quo. Her attitude to the elf rebellion is I guess similar to her attitude to the mage rebellion.

[Heimdall]

It's possible she disapproves of supporting Briala because that solution is liable to result in more upset and turmoil in the future.

Sera is essentially a conservative who supports stability and the status quo. Her attitude to the elf rebellion is I guess similar to her attitude to the mage rebellion.

That the rebellion is composed of a bunch of self important jerks that will happily run roughshod over common folk in pursuit of their goals?  Same reason she disapproves of the rebel templars, really.

[Wulfram]

That the rebellion is composed of a bunch of self important jerks that will happily run roughshod over common folk in pursuit of their goals?  Same reason she disapproves of the rebel templars, really.

As far as I can tell, she'd think that about any rebellion. She doesn't believe the world can get better, so anyone looking to change it is a selfish trouble maker.

She'd have hated Andraste, causing all that upheaval. Got to stick to the nice safe world of the now where Sera can play.

[Heimdall]

As far as I can tell, she'd think that about any rebellion. She doesn't believe the world can get better, so anyone looking to change it is a selfish trouble maker.

She'd have hated Andraste, causing all that upheaval. Got to stick to the nice safe world of the now where Sera can play.

Maybe, she tends to see such people as self righteous and self centered, granted I'm not so certain about Andraste as the situation really couldn't have gotten much worse at that point (All the worst parts of Tevinter plus the anarchy and instability of the First Blight's aftermath)

[KaiserShep]

She'd have hated Andraste, causing all that upheaval. Got to stick to the nice safe world of the now where Sera can play.

 

Didn't Andraste fight the magisters? I imagine she'd approve of sticking it to a bunch of wizard overlords.

[Patchwork]

In that scenario magister overlords would be the status quo and Andraste's rebellion would be getting in the way of Sera's fun. 

 

She probably would have hated Shartan too. 

[Heimdall]

In that scenario magister overlords would be the status quo and Andraste's rebellion would be getting in the way of Sera's fun. 

 

She probably would have hated Shartan too. 

Only if Shartan restricted his efforts to elven slaves and ignored the human ones (Which he apparently did, so yes)

[DanteYoda]

What is Brialas job again?

 

I remember helping Briala to get back with Celene, and the darkest hearts quest but i can't quite remember what Briala is.. a Spy? of some type, it may not be Briala as an Person she hate's but how she acts and what she does, might irk Sera a lot..

[Felya87]

What is Brialas job again?

 

I remember helping Briala to get back with Celene, and the darkest hearts quest but i can't quite remember what Briala is.. a Spy? of some type, it may not be Briala as an Person she hate's but how she acts and what she does, might irk Sera a lot..

 

She was for Celene what Leliana was for the Divine, the left hand. Assassin, spy, the one that act in the shadow. She was just a step up because she was trained with Celene, and where together from a very young age (Briala was the destined personal servant of Celene already when she was a child) and ended up becaming her lover. That without knowing Celene killed Briala's parents and all the elven servants for the Game.

[robertthebard]

Actually, I see Sera and Briala being similar. They both don't care if some of their allies dies (Sera's "they already had a bad life" regarding the people who die helping the Jennies) Briala is simply more accurate and at least have a goal.

There's a big difference between "Hey, we have a problem, can you help?", and "I'm sorry, but you're going to have to die for my cause.", which are Sera and Briala respectively. Sera's "network" isn't recruited by her for these "jobs", they come to her, or more specifically, Red Jenny, knowing full well that there could be repercussions.

[Felya87]

There's a big difference between "Hey, we have a problem, can you help?", and "I'm sorry, but you're going to have to die for my cause.", which are Sera and Briala respectively. Sera's "network" isn't recruited by her for these "jobs", they come to her, or more specifically, Red Jenny, knowing full well that there could be repercussions.

 

Actually, not really. Sera helself, when asked, if I remember well, say people have no idea that contacting the Red Jennyes can make them targets (hence the "oh, they had bad lives anyway" kind of justification). They aren't organized, they don't have any protection, nor they are told cleary so.

At least, Briala's contacts are fully aware they are working for someone with a goal, and know they can be in danger for it.

 

Edit for grammar.

[robertthebard]

Actually, not really. Sera helself, when asked, if I remember well, say people have no idea that contacting the Red Jennyes can make them targets (hence the "oh, they had bad lives anyway" kind of justification). They aren't organized, they don't have any protection, nor they are told cleary so.
At least, Briala's contacts are fully aware they are working for someone with a goal, and know they can be in danger for it.
 
Edit for grammar.

You don't remember well. She indicates quite the opposite, and states as much after the Verchiel March mission. She says it doesn't always go like that, which means that sometimes it does. They aren't organized, they aren't a movement, they are people willing to help those that ask for it, and sometimes things get pear shaped. As for the "Oh, they had bad lives anyway", care to link that particular line, as I don't recall ever getting it. She gets bent out of shape if you do Drop and Grab wrong and the servants get fired.

[Felya87]

You don't remember well. She indicates quite the opposite, and states as much after the Verchiel March mission. She says it doesn't always go like that, which means that sometimes it does. They aren't organized, they aren't a movement, they are people willing to help those that ask for it, and sometimes things get pear shaped. As for the "Oh, they had bad lives anyway", care to link that particular line, as I don't recall ever getting it. She gets bent out of shape if you do Drop and Grab wrong and the servants get fired.

 

I don't remember what is the "drop and Grab" (I'm Italian, and I play with the italian version, so sometimes I don't understand well wich english one matches the translated one) but after her mission if you tell Sera the death of her contact is her fault, she say the line.

[Patchwork]

Only if Shartan restricted his efforts to elven slaves and ignored the human ones (Which he apparently did, so yes)

 

To be fair he probably had more pull with the other elves and Andraste herself had the human slave faction covered. 

[Luqer]

 

You don't remember well. She indicates quite the opposite, and states as much after the Verchiel March mission. She says it doesn't always go like that, which means that sometimes it does. They aren't organized, they aren't a movement, they are people willing to help those that ask for it, and sometimes things get pear shaped. As for the "Oh, they had bad lives anyway", care to link that particular line, as I don't recall ever getting it. She gets bent out of shape if you do Drop and Grab wrong and the servants get fired.

 

 

https://youtu.be/Lqb6am6Vv7M

 

Starting from 6:46

[KaiserShep]

https://youtu.be/Lqb6am6Vv7M

 

Starting from 6:46

 

"Yes, they got hurt for talking. But what they were supposed to do? They were already being hurt."

 

This line strikes a much different tone from "Oh they had bad lives anyway". It seems to me that their options were either grin and bear the abuse of his authority, or seek out help to provoke a change in his plans that they hoped would not involve getting refugees and servants trampled over in the process.

 

It ties in to her follow-up response to the Inquisitor's argument that staying out would have left things peaceful, where she says "What? I don't even know what to say to that. 'Let the bad man do what he wants, or he'll get worse?'" isn't the worst counter in the world. I'm loath to use certain examples, but if someone is abusing a spouse or something, and a friend confronts that person, who then turns around and bludgeons said spouse with a bat as revenge for speaking to someone else about it, is the friend to take the blame?