276 réponses à ce sujet

[WildOrchid]

 

So typical. Twist everything to fit views.

 

"I aint even mad".

 

Legit.

Someone is trying wayyyyy too hard to make her look bad. It's laughable at this point.

[Dieb]

It seems difficult concept to grasp for some, that people without education and extensive vocabulary can indeed be intelligent. Probably since these things usually do such a good job of hiding the fact that someone is not.

 

I believe Sera's ultimate purpose is to be the unpleasant cog in the machine. Which you wouldn't have bothered to inspect properly with all its misconstructions and little malfunctions, because it'll keep running well enough somehow until someone forces it to a full stop.

[Fozee]

This thread surprised me because I never found myself disagreeing with Sera. 

I'm destined for jail, aren't I?

[s-jay2676]

Legit.

Someone is trying wayyyyy too hard to make her look bad. It's laughable at this point.

And others are trying to make her look better than she actually is. Wouldn't you agree that this is laughable as well?

[AresKeith]

And others are trying to make her look better than she actually is. Wouldn't you agree that this is laughable as well?

Not really since the people who are "trying to make her look better" are actually using fact

[s-jay2676]

Not really since the people who are "trying to make her look better" are actually using fact

I see. Well that's a shame because there's no chance for us to have a civilized and respectful discussion.

[WildOrchid]

And others are trying to make her look better than she actually is. Wouldn't you agree that this is laughable as well?

 

All characters have flaws, and Sera is one of these characters. Never denied that. What i find laughable are the exaggerated "facts" to make her look bad. She's not bad, neither "perfect".

 

Also, exactly what Ares said.

[s-jay2676]

All characters have flaws, and Sera is one of these characters. Never denied that. What i find laughable are the exaggerated "facts" to make her look bad. She's not bad, neither "perfect".

 

Also, exactly what Ares said.

Accepting or trying to understand a different point of view can be really hard, I know.

[KaiserShep]

And others are trying to make her look better than she actually is. Wouldn't you agree that this is laughable as well?

As people are wont to do for all sorts of fictional characters, but with regard to the last subject discussed, being the post-Verchiel dialogue, I think it is a bit of a reach. It's not a far throw from the criticism of the neutral approval rating on saving everyone in Haven, which was something that affected (or rather didn't affect) most of the other companions, yet is only a problem for this one.

 

I suppose that in general, how much people are willing to forgive this flaw or that depends on how much the character entertains them. Morrigan is a cruel a-hole in Origins, but we do love her so lol.

[WildOrchid]

I suppose that in general, how much people are willing to forgive this flaw or that depends on how much the character entertains them. Morrigan is a cruel a-hole in Origins, but we do love her so lol.

 

Of course we do...... the double standard sometimes is painfully obvious.

[Mihura]

Of course we do...... the double standard sometimes is painfully obvious.

 

Not really Morrigan does not want to help anyone, she above all, values power and survival. If anything she is brutal honest about it.

In the end of the game this changes a little if you befriend her, she has her personal plans but Morrigan comes to care about the Warden a great deal. She is a lot more on the Vivienne and Cassandra archetype than anything else. 

Sera is like Alistair and Oghren, especially Alistair when it comes to blood magic and Oghren with the crude comments, also not really my favorites so...

 

In the end it comes down to personal taste and not facts at all. One side is always going to see her qualities and overlook her not so good ones, the other side probably not. Although I still think Sera could had been better written in the hand of other person.

[Dieb]

In the end it comes down to personal taste and not facts at all. One side is always going to see her qualities and overlook her not so good ones, the other side probably not.

 

I'm pretty sure I like your best friend less than you do. That doesn't make him/her a bastard. If I would point out that I liked them less, you may feel inclined to tell me about the awesome qualities he/she has anyways. It's why these threads keep going. (actually the poor OP was merely asking a question)

 

 

Although I still think Sera could had been better written in the hand of other person.

 

That's a strange remark.

 

I hate Anders, but I think he's a great character. Just like him, Sera's unlikeable to some, but she's still very well written. She's engaging, sticks to a concept, builds up a visibly growing, non-romantic relationship with the player (and Blackwall) over the course of the game, and obviously sparks reaction.

 

What would a more skilled writer have done with her? Made her more likable to the majority? Even less? Made her less stubborn? Also, none of the "positive" aspects listed above are necessarily pleasant, by the way - which makes her an even better character in my opinion. Just because a character isn't generally pleasant, doesn't mean it's bad writing.

 

It would be a quality issue if she were inconsistent (involuntarily that is) or had no memorable dialogue; none of which I'd agree with.

[Mihura]

I'm pretty sure I like your best friend less than you do. That doesn't make him/her a bastard. If I would point out that I liked them less, you may feel inclined to tell me about the awesome qualities he/she has anyways. It's why these threads keep going. (actually the poor OP was merely asking a question)

 

 

 

That's a strange remark.

 

I hate Anders, but I think he's a great character. Just like him, Sera's unlikeable to some, but she's still very well written. She's engaging, sticks to a concept, builds up a visibly growing, non-romantic relationship with the player (and Blackwall) over the course of the game, and obviously sparks reaction.

 

What would a more skilled writer have done with her? Made her more likable to the majority? Even less? Made her less stubborn? Also, none of the "positive" aspects listed above are necessarily pleasant, by the way - which makes her an even better character in my opinion. Just because a character isn't generally pleasant, doesn't mean it's bad writing.

 

It would be a quality issue if she were inconsistent (involuntarily that is) or had no memorable dialogue; none of which I'd agree with.

 

I am going to say that my BFF being a bastard is a personal thing, someone out there could think they are. That does not change anything.  Also I am pretty sure the OP was asking about the though process of people that dislike Sera. 
Like I said this is not about double standards more like conformation bias, one side is gonna to give examples why they think Sera is great and the other side gives you the negative ones.

Not talking about skill but experience when it comes to writing Sera. I just think in the hands of another she could had been more fleshed out. All the companions had done some horrible things but somehow to me, Sera does not have enough meat to balance the bad and this is something even the writers were aware off, the kick button is there for a reason.

[robertthebard]

https://youtu.be/Lqb6am6Vv7M
 
Starting from 6:46

Yeah, that's not even the same context, let alone the same line. It's also contingent on being one of the big people "punching down", based on the conversation. The whole idea behind even doing the quest or not was because two nobles were trashing the little folk, trying to make a land grab. So when she's talking about they were already being hurt, that's what she's talking about, the fighting between those two nobles trying to take more land. That has nothing to do with not caring that the guy in that very video dies, and, in fact, she can demonstrate exactly how much she cares about that, if you let her, as seen here:

[Patient.Zero]

 Also I am pretty sure the OP was asking about the though process of people that dislike Sera. Like I said this is not about double standards more like conformation bias, one side is gonna to give examples why they think Sera is great and the other side gives you the negative ones.

 

I don't know guys, I think the OP meant this:

 

I came to the forms to ask about Sera because I believed that listening to what other people had to say about her character was a more productive course of action then speculating about her myself. I am a curious person, and my intention with this thread was not to pit those who like Sera against those who don't.  I was simply interested in I what I thought to be an extreme variation of acceptance for a specific character. I apologize if you felt otherwise. Listening to what everyone has had to say here has been a quite an intriguing time for me and I think I've learned a lot. Even though some of the things posted here present interpretations that differ from mine I welcome them because they have still been eye opening. 

[Mihura]

I don't know guys, I think the OP meant this:

 

Fair enough lol

But asking why people extrapolate about the way Sera think about elves to racism, is not something people that love her usually do. Although I do like Dorian and think he is slaver apologist so... ya I guess I can see it. My bad.

[Luqer]

Yeah, that's not even the same context, let alone the same line. It's also contingent on being one of the big people "punching down", based on the conversation. The whole idea behind even doing the quest or not was because two nobles were trashing the little folk, trying to make a land grab. So when she's talking about they were already being hurt, that's what she's talking about, the fighting between those two nobles trying to take more land. That has nothing to do with not caring that the guy in that very video dies, and, in fact, she can demonstrate exactly how much she cares about that, if you let her, as seen here:

Oh, I'm definitely aware that Sera cares about the little people. Its just apparent that she doesn't care enough about them to want to put some thought into her so-called "plans" to help them. 

 

Haven't the past two DA games thought us of what happens when the "ends justify the means" mentality is used irresponsibly? Haven't the past two games thought us that no matter how good your intentions are, its all meaningless if you end up getting people killed using the wrong methods (Loghain, Meredith, Orsino)?

[KaiserShep]

Oh, I'm definitely aware that Sera cares about the little people. Its just apparent that she doesn't care enough about them to want to put some thought into her so-called "plans" to help them. 

 

Haven't the past two DA games thought us of what happens when the "ends justify the means" mentality is used irresponsibly? Haven't the past two games thought us that no matter how good your intentions are, its all meaningless if you end up getting people killed using the wrong methods (Loghain, Meredith, Orsino)?

 

The march in Verchiel was an attempt at a bloodless solution to stop two nobles from using refugees to build their own wealth. Whatever method Sera conjures up or the Inquisitor ends up using does not change the fact that Harmond would have figured out that someone told on him anyway. That Harmond turned out to be a murderous d*ckhead is an unfortunate side effect of the plan. The irony though is that one surefire way of dealing with the situation and keeping Harmond from killing people would be to simply kill Harmond himself.

 

This is quite a long way from Loghain or Meredith's extreme methods.

[Dieb]

Sera's approach isn't exactly "The ends justify the means - those fools are too naive to realize my superior capabilities of prevision", but more like "****, let's do this!".

 

That doesn't make her less lackluster per se, but it completely changes her intentions.

 

 

P.S.: Also inclined to join Varric on some -1 Disapproval for the Orsino bit. The guy was desperate and lost it. Up until the very last fight, he even makes you take out rogue revolting blood mages, so they can't give the Circle more of a bad name.

[robertthebard]

Oh, I'm definitely aware that Sera cares about the little people. Its just apparent that she doesn't care enough about them to want to put some thought into her so-called "plans" to help them. 
 
Haven't the past two DA games thought us of what happens when the "ends justify the means" mentality is used irresponsibly? Haven't the past two games thought us that no matter how good your intentions are, its all meaningless if you end up getting people killed using the wrong methods (Loghain, Meredith, Orsino)?

She put plenty of thought into it. That's why she had us march troops through there, and not attack one or the other. Harmond even points that out, and gives us a "well played" for seeming to tip the scales. If you have her with you when you do the caves under the lake in Crestwood, you'll get another taste of just how much she cares from an ambient comment she makes when you find the corpses of the villagers.