276 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Don't think I could abide the religion conflict if I rolled an elf, particularly one that I set up as being a believer in all that elfy stuff, and while getting with someone who is openly mocking elven stuff at every opportunity isn't the best idea in the world, I'd have to end it there. But since I only roll filthy shems, it all works out lol.

[KBomb]

Don't think I could abide the religion conflict if I rolled an elf, particularly one that I set up as being a believer in all that elfy stuff, and while getting with someone who is openly mocking elven stuff at every opportunity isn't the best idea in the world, I'd have to end it there. But since I only roll filthy shems, it all works out lol.

At some point, I would like to roll a Qun hating Qunari for Iron Bull. Seeing as how he seems to dislike Tals. I have avoided watching scenes with IB so it will be a surprise on how he treats that situation.

My favorite playthrough so far has been my devout pro-templar human. I need to shake things up.

[KaiserShep]

I always have a bit of trouble playing a devout anything. Allergies and such.

[Heimdall]

No, I don't think going into a relationship where someone disagrees with you in an ass-move. I will agree that it is not the smartest thing to do, but it doesn't make you an ass. The Inquisitor doesn't expect Sera to change her views, only to understand that it's important to her (the Inquisitor). She doesn't expect Sera to change her opinion of the elves or her beliefs. The Inquisitor didn't get butthurt because Sera didn't agree with her or wouldn't change for her. Sera is the one who wanted the Inquisitor to change and denounce her beliefs. 

 

Inquisitor: There is so much history there. What if it is true?
Sera: Frig. You're going elfy.
Inquisitor: What?
Sera: It's when fairy stories make your ears droop for "lost glory", but "glory" squats in the woods and smells like halla arse. I knew it was coming. Knew I shouldn't have started liking you. I said it, right? This doesn't fit. I can't fit. I'm not elfy. So, say you're kidding and we can go back to our weird-enough normal? Please, Inky?
Inquisitor: You'd really end our relationship over what I think of some ruins?
Sera: Maybe I don't believe much or understand it, but some people think too much and can bend anything to fit anything. Some things just don't it. Yes, you can explain it, and no, I won't get it. But I don't care. Some things don't fit. So, take it back. Just say you'd rather look ahead. That's all.
Inquisitor: I am sorry, Sera. But I believe this is important for our fellow elves.
Sera: And say the other bit.
Inquisitor: What?
Sera: "You'd get it if you were smarter." If you understood what it meant "to be elven". Take your elves, I'm just people.

 

Sera is demanding. Perhaps not in the literal sense, but she is certainly saying, "If you don't take it all back and pretend you don't feel that way, then it's over." In my opinion, as well as some other's, Sera acted completely juvenile. That being said, entering into a relationship with her as a devout dalish elf is completely moronic. It isn't that Sera isn't smart enough to understand conflicting views and opinions, it's that she is too immature to. Of course, again, this is my opinion. 

 

 

Someone can have a completely different belief system as you and you can make it work. As I said, I am an example of this. Simply entering into a relationship with someone who has opposing views as you isn't expecting them to change for you. Entering into a relationship and then giving them the option to deny their belief or you'll leave them, is. Even after the break-up, if you go to Sera and tell her that you still want to be her friend, she shoots you down. It's her way or no way. 

 

Even if you aren't in a relationship, she calls you stupid if you even consider that there is some truth in Mythal. I have friend who is Wiccan. Personally, I don't hold any belief in that, but if she said to me, "What if my belief is true?" I would never tell her, "Then you're being stupid." That is a douche thing to do. I hope that I would have enough maturity not to insult someone who disagrees with me. I don't find Sera to be a bad person, just immature. I don't hate her at all. 

I think its a little more complicated than just having a different religion in Sera's case.

 

For one, Sera's conversations lead one to believe that she had a previous encounter with the Dalish, who weren't accepting at all of her views nor was she impressed by their pining for elven glory and ideas about what elves should be.  They no doubt tried to tell her how she should be and that just didn't fly.

 

But more importantly, one of Sera's more interesting character traits (Which is wrongly interpreted as internalized racism by many) is her total disdain for racial classification.  There's sweet line she gives about the Inquisitor being so much more than "a dwarf", or elf, or Qunari, etc..  She doesn't think the shape of her ears means a damn thing, and dislikes the idea of people being being grouped accordingly, whether others do it or they do it themselves.  The problem?  Racial classification is foundational to dalish ideology and the ancient elves.  The idea that it could be right and be real for elves in this time is... problematic for her.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that what she saw in that temple challenged some very fundamental ideas of how Sera sees the world and herself.  I'm not trying to excuse her reaction, I'm just saying that her reaction strikes me more as fear than intolerance.  I've known people that have had immense difficulty adjusting to new viewpoints, especially when there's evidence directly challenging their own ideas.  Nobody likes losing their ideological framework, somebody with deepseated existential fears like Sera doubly so.  I guess I don't condone her reaction, but I sympathize with it.

[Patient.Zero]

At some point, I would like to roll a Qun hating Qunari for Iron Bull. Seeing as how he seems to dislike Tals. I have avoided watching scenes with IB so it will be a surprise on how he treats that situation.

My favorite playthrough so far has been my devout pro-templar human. I need to shake things up.

 

I don't think he minds all that much, he has a "to each their own mentality." He will disagree but at the end of the day he lets it roll off his shoulders. I think the only person who really riles him up about the Qun is Solas. I've seen banter between the two if Iron Bull saves the dreadnought instead of the chargers and It's kinda uncomfortable. 

[KBomb]

I think its a little more complicated than just having a different religion in Sera's case.

For one, Sera's conversations lead one to believe that she had a previous encounter with the Dalish, who weren't accepting at all of her views nor was she impressed by their pining for elven glory and ideas about what elves should be. They no doubt tried to tell her how she should be and that just didn't fly.

But more importantly, one of Sera's more interesting character traits (Which is wrongly interpreted as internalized racism by many) is her total disdain for racial classification. There's sweet line she gives about the Inquisitor being so much more than "a dwarf", or elf, or Qunari, etc.. She doesn't think the shape of her ears means a damn thing, and dislikes the idea of people being being grouped accordingly, whether others do it or they do it themselves. The problem? Racial classification is foundational to dalish ideology and the ancient elves. The idea that it could be right and be real for elves in this time is... problematic for her.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that what she saw in that temple challenged some very fundamental ideas Sera sees the world with. I'm not trying to excuse her reaction, I'm just saying that her reaction strikes me more as fear than intolerance. I've known people that have had immense difficulty adjusting to new viewpoints, especially when there's evidence directly challenging their own ideas. Nobody likes losing their ideological framework, somebody with deepseated existential fears like Sera doubly so. I guess I don't condone her reaction, but I sympathize with it.

I do think Sera is thrust into situations that force her to question things she once had no doubt about the answer to and because of the lack of maturity, it is difficult for her to cope and rationalize. I can also sympathize, but I can certainly understand how some may not want to deal with that and how it can lead one to dislike her. She is a bit rough on the skin.

[Heimdall]

I do think Sera is thrust into situations that force her to question things she once had no doubt about the answer to and because of the lack of maturity, it is difficult for her to cope and rationalize. I can also sympathize, but I can certainly understand how some may not want to deal with that and how it can lead one to dislike her. She is a bit rough on the skin.

Definitely, I've always said that liking Sera requires patience and a thick skin.

[KBomb]

Definitely, I've always said that liking Sera requires patience and a thick skin.

lol This is very true. Probably why in spite of her flaws, I still find myself liking her.

[stop_him]

Then dont play an elfish fish . I played as a Qunari and it was a Blast ! 

 

Uh, no. I played a qunari who romanced Sera, and she was insulted when Sera kept calling her stupid for having different opinions. My qunari dropped Sera like a bad habit. With so many punch "X" character options in Bioware games, I don't understand why a "punch Sera" option does not exist for DAI.

 

Better option: Don't recruit Sera, and the game is a blast!

[Reaver102]

She didn't "demand". She begged you to leave all the "fanatism" back and look forward because all she saw back there scared her and it was too much to bear, hence why she begs you to forget all of this, she literally begs you to lie to her. She knows all of this she saw back there was something but doesn't want to admit it.

She wasn't even yelling at you. Even Sera herself doesn't care about religions and such (even if she claims to be an andrastian, she isn't really that devout according to her banters with Bull but apparently has issues with dalish due to her past)

 

Some people are closeminded when it comes to religion, that's the hard truth. I personally, if i believed in some religion and my "crush" disapproved of it, i wouldn't even pursue a rs with her to avoid all the drama.

 

And you know who's the ass? You (not really you but you know what i mean), if you pursue a relationship with someone who is very vocal about being against your religion (not accepting). A devout dalish inquisitor clearly can pursue a relationship with Sera, ignoring all the things she says about not liking dalish, also gets uncomfortable and is not excited at all if you flirt with her. And then you get butthurt that she doesn't approve of it in the end. That's the lesson, never go with someone who disapproves of your religion/ways of living, expecting them to "change". It doesn't work like this for some people and we have to accept it.

 

Sera should've been elf gated, imo.

I agree with most of what you said but I'm glad they didn't Elf gate her.  I feel its a pretty reasonable stance for a Dalish Inquisitor to forego their faith due to the events in Inquisition, as it becomes clear that the Elven gods were not gods at all.  

 

Perhaps its just me but if I truly loved a person I'd fake my faith or convert if pressed, it wouldn't change my personal beliefs in the least.  In the case of Sera she just wanted reassurance, which as an Elf I gave to her because at the end of the day what have the elven gods done for me?  This view even has precedence in the Red Crossing incident we learn about in the elven ruins in the Emerald Graves.

[Darkstarr11]

Really the only times that Sera got under my skin was when I was playing as the Dalish Inquisitor.  Other than that, she's like a bratty little sister.  REALLY, REALLY irritating sometimes, but nothing that you can just shrug and ignore.  However, when playing as an Elf, she does tend to seem REALLY biased.  Of course, that my opinion.  I guess, we should be glad that Bioware was able to write a character like her.  A lot of nuance.  Yet, in the right moment, she's seen as a bigot.  Social commentary possibly?  That everyone in the right moment can be jerks?  

 

Something to chew on, I guess...

[jedidotflow]

Just read the romance dialogue transcript that KBomb posted. Sera sounds like the kind of idiot who claims "I don't see race" when arguments over racism happen--but it's even worse because Sera is a self-hating elf. 

 

While the Dalish are dicks, being an elf is considered pariah in Thedas. They're basically slaves. So, no, Sera. Elven Inquisitors can't "look forward" when the future holds no promise at all. Once elves are treated the same as humans, then we can start talking about all being people.

[KaiserShep]

With so many punch "X" character options in Bioware games, I don't understand why a "punch Sera" option does not exist for DAI.

Punch options are actually kind of rare in BioWare's games, at least they are in the ME and DA series. ME only has the reporter and Inquisition is the first to have any at all.

[Heimdall]

Just read the romance dialogue transcript that KBomb posted. Sera sounds like the kind of idiot who claims "I don't see race" when arguments over racism happen--but it's even worse because Sera is a self-hating elf.

While the Dalish are dicks, being an elf is considered pariah in Thedas. They're basically slaves. So, no, Sera. Elven Inquisitors can't "look forward" when the future holds no promise at all. Once elves are treated the same as humans, then we can start talking about all being people.

But what does looking back achieve, aside from a bunch of Dalish elves telling elves like Sera that they aren't true elves?

[Lebanese Dude]

Definitely, I've always said that liking Sera requires patience and a thick skin.

 

Exactly.

Add non-judgmental and open-minded to that list.

 

Although judging her on some Inquisitors is fun. Her reactions are priceless.

 

"Should I prop him up to say my sorries?"... I died.

[jedidotflow]

But what does looking back achieve, aside from a bunch of Dalish elves telling elves like Sera that they aren't true elves?

 

The Dalish are wrong because they are living a lie. However, Sera is also wrong by denying being an elf. I understand her not wanting to let being an elf define her, but her denial of what she is not the way forward either. 

 

The only way forward is for elves to be recognized as equals to humans That's the real struggle right there. Humans won't allow it because they're pricks, the elves are too busy trying to survive, and the Dalish are just being asses. 

[KaiserShep]

The Dalish are wrong because they are living a lie. However, Sera is also wrong by denying being an elf. I understand her not wanting to let being an elf define her, but her denial of what she is not the way forward either. 
 
The only way forward is for elves to be recognized as equals to humans That's the real struggle right there. Humans won't allow it because they're pricks, the elves are too busy trying to survive, and the Dalish are just being asses.

Realistically, the cultural aspect will likely not totally survive integration. If and when elves are afforded the same liberties as other folk, they will no doubt take the next step beyond city elves and even abandon the last vestiges that linger in the alienages.

[Heimdall]

The Dalish are wrong because they are living a lie. However, Sera is also wrong by denying being an elf. I understand her not wanting to let being an elf define her, but her denial of what she is not the way forward either. 
 
The only way forward is for elves to be recognized as equals to humans That's the real struggle right there. Humans won't allow it because they're pricks, the elves are too busy trying to survive, and the Dalish are just being asses.

That it's a lie only compounds their error, their first error was assuming the position that their way was the only true elven way, denying any legitimacy to elves that may actually prefer to follow Andraste, or the Qun.

Sera does not deny being an elf. She denies that being an elf carries any significance, the same for humans, everyone is "just people". She hates it when people say they do things "for the elves" because who does that mean, really? The Dalish in the woods? The elves in the Alienage? Or an orphan raised by humans like her? She doesn't really have anything in common with any of them, so why should she feel a sense of kinship, ear shape?

[KBomb]

I agree with most of what you said but I'm glad they didn't Elf gate her. I feel its a pretty reasonable stance for a Dalish Inquisitor to forego their faith due to the events in Inquisition, as it becomes clear that the Elven gods were not gods at all.

Perhaps its just me but if I truly loved a person I'd fake my faith or convert if pressed, it wouldn't change my personal beliefs in the least. In the case of Sera she just wanted reassurance, which as an Elf I gave to her because at the end of the day what have the elven gods done for me? This view even has precedence in the Red Crossing incident we learn about in the elven ruins in the Emerald Graves.

I know this is going to sound crazy cheesy, so I apologize in advance , but I think it's unhealthy for a relationship to pretend to be something you're not. If you love someone, you shouldn't deceive them and if someone loves you, it should be because of who you really are and not who you pretend to be.

As for reassuring someone of something-- that shouldn't be done with dishonesty. Quick example-- a co-worker of mine lets her boyfriend go through her emails and phone. She said it just puts his mind at ease that she is being faithful. I believe it only exacerbates the underlying issue of his insecurity and will lead to more problems down the road.

Same with Sera, lying to her about "putting it all behind you" just to reassure her will only add to the destruction of your relationship. Sera's issue with "being elfy" are her own and indulging it won't help her. Best to be honest and supportive. If she ends the relationship regardless, it most likely wasn't meant to be to begin with. Okay, cheese over! Apologies again!

[jedidotflow]

That it's a lie only compounds their error, their first error was assuming the position that their way was the only true elven way, denying any legitimacy to elves that may actually prefer to follow Andraste, or the Qun.

Sera does not deny being an elf. She denies that being an elf carries any significance, the same for humans, everyone is "just people". She hates it when people say they do things "for the elves" because who does that mean, really? The Dalish in the woods? The elves in the Alienage? Or an orphan raised by humans like her? She doesn't really have anything in common with any of them, so why should she feel a sense of kinship, ear shape?

 

She does have something in common with all elves: They're treated like trash. Doesn't matter how much she doesn't want to believe it, she'll never be treated the same in Thedas. Thinking that everyone is "just people" won't make her an equal in the eyes of others. 

[Reaver102]

I know this is going to sound crazy cheesy, so I apologize in advance , but I think it's unhealthy for a relationship to pretend to be something you're not. If you love someone, you shouldn't deceive them and if someone loves you, it should be because of who you really are and not who you pretend to be.

As for reassuring someone of something-- that shouldn't be done with dishonesty. Quick example-- a co-worker of mine lets her boyfriend go through her emails and phone. She said it just puts his mind at ease that she is being faithful. I believe it only exacerbates the underlying issue of his insecurity and will lead to more problems down the road.

Same with Sera, lying to her about "putting it all behind you" just to reassure her will only add to the destruction of your relationship. Sera's issue with "being elfy" are her own and indulging it won't help her. Best to be honest and supportive. If she ends the relationship regardless, it most likely wasn't meant to be to begin with. Okay, cheese over! Apologies again!

No apologies necessary, I understand what your saying and I can't really disagree. Though I do like that this drama exists within the game as its something I see often with politics, religions, and relationships. 

[KaiserShep]

Thinking that everyone is "just people" won't make her an equal in the eyes of others. 

 

Is this actually a good reason to let go of the idea though? Better some believe it than not at all.

[Luqer]

Is this actually a good reason to let go of the idea though? Better some believe it than not at all.

Oh, by all means, believe it as passionately as possible but if all characters like Sera do is to only keep talking about how everyone should be treated equally rather than actively try to make it into a reality step by step, at least have the decency not to act so high and mighty about it...

[New Kid]

Sera was awesome and made me think differently about things, something that the majority of the other companions failed to do.

[Helios969]

I don't think there's anything wrong with any of the companions. They're all given flaws that make them more realistic. I think it's that certain flaws are more palatable to the general gamer populace and that's what leads to hate for certain characters. Sera's flaw is that she's completely unapologetic, and by that I mean she's not an apologist for any given faction (apart from the 'little people' she claims to fight for,) and that makes it harder for the pc to relate to her. I don't think she's racist either, if she discriminates against anyone it's because of their social status, not their race. I see her as a force to correct an imbalance borne of an imperfect world. I found pretty much everything she said to be refreshing and unique, and no, I didn't agree with most of it. So what? If I were an especially sensitive person, maybe I would agree with certain fans who would like to 'correct' Sera, but I'm not. That would completely cheapen the game for me.

 

I think you're close, but with Sera what she really despises is condescension...people who think they're better than other people whether due to social privilege or the superior attitudes of elfy elves.  Nobles are easy because of all that "divine-right of birth" nonsense.  But I think if she encountered some village elder abusing their power she'd just as likely engage in some corrective measures.  Isn't it why her and Viv get along so marvelously;)