276 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

That's not really the meaning behind that phrase. After all, the people she tends to work against are typically Andrastian human nobles that make life for other people miserable, whether they be elves or other humans. Assimilation has nothing to do with it. Being "just people" has more to do with not losing sight of the lower rungs of society and being treated fairly. It's an idea that she also applies to the Inquisitor, regardless of race.

 

How she feels about elven culture, particularly the Dalish, is a separate issue.

Why is that separate? She can accept anyone except an elf who doesn't want to pretend to be a human.

[Heimdall]

Why is that separate? She can accept anyone except an elf who doesn't want to pretend to be a human.

Being Andrastian isn't "pretending to be human"

[AresKeith]

Just a little warning..

 

I'm not one hundred percent certain but I'm pretty sure this person you're arguing with, is the same person who has a reputation of coming onto these forums and complaining about Sera, continues to recycle the same arguments over and over and over again.. and basically, it's like playing a never-ending tennis match, but with less grunting, more whining.

 

There's atleast another one like that too

[WildOrchid]

snips awesome post

 

It proves that people will accuse someone very easily, without any proof or context whatsoever.

Kinda like "burn the witch" mentality.

[AresKeith]

It proves that people will accuse someone very easily, without any proof or context whatsoever.

Kinda like "burn the witch" mentality.

 

Andraste was a witch tho lol

[Rel Fexive]

You clearly think she is not transphobic, I clearly think she is. This is not gonna to change even with my most well put arguments. Also I am kinda tried of people wanting to invalidated it, if you do not agree good for you, it change nothing really.

 

I gave my assessment when it comes to Sera concept and character because the question is still asked in the forum. People can choose to accept that as valid or not, like I said.

 

Oh, you have well put arguments?

 

I'd like to actually see those, please.

 

Try not to quote Tumblr if you do, though.

[KaiserShep]

Andraste was a witch tho lol

 

Meanwhile, in Minrathous...

 

[Veovim]

I'm really tired of explaining this, but Sera does not hate being an elf or hate elves. She does not reject being an elf. She rejects what other people tell her being an elf means because very little if any of it is true for her and she hates the "us versus them" viewpoint espoused by many elves, whom she has little in common with. Is that distinction too fine to grasp?

I don't disagree with what you said about Sera hating the elves' "us versus them" viewpoint, I just don't see how that precludes her having self-hatred over the perceived racism from her childhood.  Why can't the answer be both?

 

Incidentally, this relates to the religious argument.  Sera seems to be absolutely sure that one side or the other has to be right, and the other has to be wrong, so she really wants her side to be right (or for the other side to be wrong).  The problem is that there's no (good) reason that both sides can't have a point.  The existence of the elven gods doesn't disprove the Maker, and vice versa.  It's a false dichotomy.

 

Edit: Re-reading that false dichotomy comment, I think it may have come out more accusatory than I intended.  Please don't take it that way, I'm commenting on Sera, not you.

[Sunnie]

Just a little warning..

 

I'm not one hundred percent certain but I'm pretty sure this person you're arguing with, is the same person who has a reputation of coming onto these forums and complaining about Sera, continues to recycle the same arguments over and over and over again.. and basically, it's like playing a never-ending tennis match, but with less grunting, more whining.

 

That's the way it goes around these parts. Argumentative discourse at its amazing finest.

In other words, just another day around the BioWare Forums. Yep, been there, done that. I am reminded why I tried to stay away from the open forums back in the old BSN.

 

 

Doing a brief search, the three word comment at the Winter Palace is the only example I can find. I assume that it's the only one in the game that even qualifies, since she never mentions Krem.

if there would be ANY negative commentary that would be even remotely transphobic, it would undoubtedly be directed at Krem, who is the only visible character living as the opposite gender. Guess what, THERE ISN'T ANY!

 

 

I'm pretty sure Mihura came into a previous thread complaining that Sera was a negative lesbian stereotype. (Which I found odd as she resembles no lesbian stereotype I've ever heard of)

I've been one for most of my life, and I have been victim to some pretty negative stereotypes, but I have never seen any stereotyping when it comes to Sera. She loves women, and comments similarly to the way men do about women they think are hot.

 

 

It proves that people will accuse someone very easily, without any proof or context whatsoever.

Kinda like "burn the witch" mentality.

Yep, more BioWare forum normalcy.

[WildOrchid]

I've been one for most of my life, and I have been victim to some pretty negative stereotypes, but I have never seen any stereotyping when it comes to Sera. She loves women, and comments similarly to the way men do about women they think are hot.

 

Hilariously, Tumblr calls her preference to qunari as "fetishzing qunari women". God forbid she has a preference, huh?

I didn't know i was "fetishizing" tall brunettes in my whole life because i happen to like them more.

 

The hate Sera gets is just ridiculous.

[AresKeith]

Hilariously, Tumblr calls her preference to qunari as "fetishzing qunari women". God forbid she has a preference, huh?

I didn't know i was "fetishizing" tall brunettes in my whole life because i happen to like them more.

 

The hate Sera gets is just ridiculous.

 

The irony of Tumblr saying that

[Heimdall]

I don't disagree with what you said about Sera hating the elves' "us versus them" viewpoint, I just don't see how that precludes her having self-hatred over the perceived racism from her childhood. Why can't the answer be both?

Incidentally, this relates to the religious argument. Sera seems to be absolutely sure that one side or the other has to be right, and the other has to be wrong, so she really wants her side to be right (or for the other side to be wrong). The problem is that there's no (good) reason that both sides can't have a point. The existence of the elven gods doesn't disprove the Maker, and vice versa. It's a false dichotomy.

Edit: Re-reading that false dichotomy comment, I think it may have come out more accusatory than I intended. Please don't take it that way, I'm commenting on Sera, not you.

It could be both, but it needn't be and I haven't seen anything from her that suggests she rejects being an elf. Rather, she just doesn't seem to consider being an elf to be an important part of her identity, or that race should be an important part of anyone's identity (This she expresses in several conversations). That's why she gets annoyed when people bring up that she's an elf, it doesn't matter to her. I think people are misinterpreting this is rejection of her elvenhood and I just think they're wrong.

Part of the reason she gets so worked up about the Temple of Mythal is because, if it's real, it threatens her perception of race and herself, so she's trying to shut it out.

[Patient.Zero]

Hum not really, most of the topics I see here are people asking other users in the forum why they hate her. If anything, this whole thing appears every time because some people seem to have difficultly in accepting that Sera is hated by some.

 

I came to the forms to ask about Sera because I believed that listening to what other people had to say about her character was a more productive course of action then speculating about her myself. I am a curious person, and my intention with this thread was not to pit those who like Sera against those who don't.  I was simply interested in I what I thought to be an extreme variation of acceptance for a specific character. I apologize if you felt otherwise. Listening to what everyone has had to say here has been a quite an intriguing time for me and I think I've learned a lot. Even though some of the things posted here present interpretations that differ from mine I welcome them because they have still been  eye opening. 

 

You clearly think she is not transphobic, I clearly think she is. This is not gonna to change even with my most well put arguments. Also I am kinda tried of people wanting to invalidated it, if you do not agree good for you, it change nothing really.

 

I gave my assessment when it comes to Sera concept and character because the question is still asked in the forum. People can choose to accept that as valid or not, like I said.

 

Like I said in a previous post, I admit that I am not the most educated on the subject of discrimination against LGBT persons but I by no means tried to invalidate your point. In fact I asked for you to help me understand what brought you to that conclusion. Is the Winter Place conversation even what your referring to or is it a comment about Krem that I just haven't experienced? 

[Serza]

Mainly, Mihura has shown themselves to be just another hater. I'm not sure how much stock is worth putting on their words.

[AntiChri5]

@patient_Zero, No negative comments in the game about Krem at all from Sera.

First off I've never been offended by the comments, I wish they weren't there but like I said it doesn't bother me but alas I'm one person. I don't blame Sera but I do think it should have been questioned during the writing process. I mean why put something in the game that could be taken in a negative way, by people you offended in the previous game.

Just to try and give a understanding why it could be interpreted the way it has for some. Let's look at the line. Shall we.

Crotch rot. Beats his squire. He’s a she. Has a bastard. Extra toes. What a fun, close-marrying crowd.

The comments all around it are considered negative, not necessarily a line you want to be included in (especially the first two), and since the line is trying to be funny (the last thing a trans person wants to see, especially after Serendipity), it seems that way to me at least. So yes I can see why someone would take exception to it, I wouldn't blame the character though, I put it on the writing process, and yes, Sera is my inky's (all of them) one and only Li.

Yes, we can be overly sensitive.

And that is all I'm going to say on the subject. Thank for reading.

I wouldn't say those comments are "negative". I would go with *scandalous*.

 

The first one, "crotch rot". Sounds like an STD to me. I wouldn't say that's a negative judgement by our standards. STD's aren't something you want and there will be sniggering if you get one but most people will probably agree that it doesn't make you a bad person or anything like that.

 

Second one, "beats his squire". Definitely negative. Definitely judgement.

 

Third is the comment this is all about. "He's a she".

 

Fourth is "has a bastard". Having a child out of wedlock is hardly a negative by our standards. Mildly scandalous in orlais, but commonplace here.

 

Fifth is "has extra toes". A mere curiosity by our standards, but again scandalous to those perfumed twats.

 

So out of all four non-trans comments, we have only one i consider a negative, while they are all scandalous to an Orlesian noble.

[KaiserShep]

To an Orlesian, missing a sequin on a shoe might be scandalous.

[Heimdall]

I wouldn't say those comments are "negative". I would go with *scandalous*.

 

The first one, "crotch rot". Sounds like an STD to me. I wouldn't say that's a negative judgement by our standards. STD's aren't something you want and there will be sniggering if you get one but most people will probably agree that it doesn't make you a bad person or anything like that.

 

Second one, "beats his squire". Definitely negative. Definitely judgement.

 

Third is the comment this is all about. "He's a she".

 

Fourth is "has a bastard". Having a child out of wedlock is hardly a negative by our standards. Mildly scandalous in orlais, but commonplace here.

 

Fifth is "has extra toes". A mere curiosity by our standards, but again scandalous to those perfumed twats.

 

So out of all four non-trans comments, we have only one i consider a negative, while they are all scandalous to an Orlesian noble.

Yup, those are all things that the Orlesian nobility finds scandalous, and it shouldn't be read further into than that.

[Get Magna Carter]

My understanding of the religious situation is...

Sera is basically Andastrian.  She considers the Dalish beliefs in conflict with hers as she does not see any way they could both be true.

She is prepared to start up a romantic relationship with a female Dalish elf and hope the religious clash is not too big an issue.

Then comes the temple off Mythal.

Sera believes that the discoveries there contradict the Dalish beliefs so after being confronted with this disproof, Inky should be prepared to accept that the Dalish beliefs were wrong and thus end the clash of beliefs (note-she does not require Inky to become an Andastrian).

If the Inquisitor stubbornly remains firmly with the Dalish beliefs regardless of the evidence, then Sera concludes that religion will always be a barrier between them, the relationship is hopeless and so, ends it there and then.

[KBomb]

I wouldn't say those comments are "negative". I would go with *scandalous*.

The first one, "crotch rot". Sounds like an STD to me. I wouldn't say that's a negative judgement by our standards. STD's aren't something you want and there will be sniggering if you get one but most people will probably agree that it doesn't make you a bad person or anything like that.

Second one, "beats his squire". Definitely negative. Definitely judgement.

Third is the comment this is all about. "He's a she".

Fourth is "has a bastard". Having a child out of wedlock is hardly a negative by our standards. Mildly scandalous in orlais, but commonplace here.

Fifth is "has extra toes". A mere curiosity by our standards, but again scandalous to those perfumed twats.

So out of all four non-trans comments, we have only one i consider a negative, while they are all scandalous to an Orlesian noble.

How I perceived it was Sera was repeating "gossip" she was hearing from the nobles. She wasn't judging anyone, merely repeating the judgements from others. That is the point of them all being there. To "feel out" the crowd.

I don't think she is speaking about one person, but it's a mod-podge of all the "gossip goodies" that she has overheard.

Sera is a lot of things, transphobic isn't one of them.

[s-jay2676]

I played the game once and honestly I still don't really know what to think of Sera. On the one hand, she is a unique character, at least in DA games and I think that her writer deserves credit for creating her. On the other hand she certainly seems prejudiced against Dalish and some of her comments might be taken as a form of racism, her religious views seem hypocritical and she surely acts in a very immature way. Therefore I understand that it is not easy for some people to like her.

 

What's beyond me, however, is that apparently some people cannot grasp the idea of "different people have different opinions and views". But perhaps I am just expecting too much.

[Patient.Zero]

@patient_Zero, No negative comments in the game about Krem at all from Sera.

First off I've never been offended by the comments, I wish they weren't there but like I said it doesn't bother me but alas I'm one person. I don't blame Sera but I do think it should have been questioned during the writing process. I mean why put something in the game that could be taken in a negative way, by people you offended in the previous game.

Just to try and give a understanding why it could be interpreted the way it has for some. Let's look at the line. Shall we.

Crotch rot. Beats his squire. He’s a she. Has a bastard. Extra toes. What a fun, close-marrying crowd.

The comments all around it are considered negative, not necessarily a line you want to be included in (especially the first two), and since the line is trying to be funny (the last thing a trans person wants to see, especially after Serendipity), it seems that way to me at least. So yes I can see why someone would take exception to it, I wouldn't blame the character though, I put it on the writing process, and yes, Sera is my inky's (all of them) one and only Li.

Yes, we can be overly sensitive.

And that is all I'm going to say on the subject. Thank for reading.

 

Thank you for your explanation. I can see now that when grouped together with things that generally have a negative connotation Sera's remark can be hurtful. I actually really appreciate you setting that straight for me. 

[robertthebard]

(to AlexiaRevan) I think it is more a sort of retaliation; payback basically. A bunch of people collaborates to get back at someone often with the help of the person or the people who pointed them towards that someone. There might be some Red Jenny who uses it to make a message about the injustice suffered by the common folk and them being abused but so far, it seems the Red Jenny's like Sera do it because it is fun and a sort of venting towards the upper part of society. That might be the wrong kind of phrasing but my summed point is that there dose not seem to be an overall message with it, just a bit of payback which is also why they've more or less avoided being noticed that much.

Did you play DA 2? If not, and you think you might, don't read the spoiler.

Spoiler

In DA 2, Hawke works directly for Red Jenny, clearing the streets of bandits. How is making the streets safer for the common folk retaliation against Nobles in any way shape or form?

There's a mission on the war table, Drop and Grab, I believe, that, if you do it wrong, and the "friends" lose their jobs, Sera disapproves. This tells me that she does indeed care what happens to her "friends".