47 réponses à ce sujet

[Larry-3]

Would delaying the activation of it by about five years really affect galaxy? Even after two decades of being part of the galactic community, the council still treated humanity like second class citizens. I am all for alien interactions and mingling, I am just stating that Humanity was evolving fine before the Relay was activated. We developed Medi-gel which made most of every other medicine obsolete, we colonized and or placed a base on every planet in our solar system without the councils help, every nation on Earth was developing. Even third world countries had developed to a 21st century level. After five years after studying the Relay, humanity could have made some pretty nice technological breakthroughs. If anything, joining the galactic community early came with a price. The turian's attacked us without asking any questions, we could not study acient technology, we had to limit the size of our defense force. And everytime humanity asked the council for help, they would state that it is our problem. What is the point of joining if they will not assist with anything? What happened to that, "we are all in this together" attitude?

[Mcfly616]

Politics.

[Tonymac]

yes you can see little white bunnies and duckies i'll give you that buuuuuutttttt..........

Yogi isn't always look for a pic-e-nic basket boo boo lmao

https://www.youtube....h?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg

[NM_Che56]

"When humanity discovered the mass relays, when we learned there was more to the galaxy than we imagined... there were some who thought the relays should be destroyed. They were scared of what we'd find, terrified of what we might let in. But look at what humanity has achieved! Since that discovery, we've advanced more than the past ten thousand years combined!"

- The Illusive Man

 

So what do you think? Should the relays have been destroyed, or at least deactivated? 

I think this could be a plot for the next game.  Stopping those who would wish to see the relays destroyed.  They look at what almost happened in the past (Reapers) as justification.

[Tex]

Years ago, and with a different focus. Now I just want the quote's sentiment to be discussed. I think the Illusive Man makes an excellent point, and I don't know how we, as the audience, are supposed to take it. He's indoctrinated, the Paragon arguments are about how his reach is exceeding his grasp, and how that can lead to only bad things. But then the Catalyst reveals that control of the Reapers is possible, so the Illusive Man wasn't completely insane after all. So then maybe he actually did have a point all along? Great civilizations should control rather than destroy? Then is Anderson wrong? But the whole game told us that "Dead Reapers is how we win this," and "We destroy them, or they destroy us." 
 
It's simply another piece of the frustrating ambiguity of the ending. What bothers me most is that people like to frame the Illusive Man as wrong about everything, that his entire philosophy is fundamentally broken. I don't think it is. The biggest problem is that he takes everything to an extreme. Human evolution at all costs, human dominance, etc. 
 
What if Cerberus actually worked with the galaxy to build the Crucible and proved to everyone that the Reapers could be controlled and used for the benefit of all? From what I understand, they didn't do that in the story because they feared, perhaps rightfully so, that no one would listen to them because the majority would want the Reapers to be destroyed, and the Illusive Man was bent on specifically human dominance anyway. But I still wonder if the galaxy could have warmed up to the idea of controlling the Reapers. As it stands now, the story makes far too many players take a very strange anti-progress/technology stance that I don't think they really believe, all because the Illusive Man had to be invalidated and the giant Lovecraftian monsters had to be killed. And you can't question the mission to kill the monsters, because if you do, then "you've gotten a little too close to the enemy." Frankly, that sounds like Indoctrination.

I think like with most he had good intentions for human kind but he went about it in the completely rong ways atleast that's how I see it with TIM.

[Tex]

I think this could be a plot for the next game.  Stopping those who would wish to see the relays destroyed.  They look at what almost happened in the past (Reapers) as justification.

Now that I think about it there would be no way to repair the relays if you go with Destroy because unless you go with either Synthesis or Control the reapers and everything technological gets scrambled and wiped out after all they were the ones who made the relays in the beginning so there's no way humanity and all the other races could or should be able to fix them I'd love to here Bioware explain that one.

[Pasquale1234]

Now that I think about it there would be no way to repair the relays if you go with Destroy because unless you go with either Synthesis or Control the reapers and everything technological gets scrambled and wiped out after all they were the ones who made the relays in the beginning so there's no way humanity and all the other races could or should be able to fix them I'd love to here Bioware explain that one.

With high EMS, the destroy option damages the relays - it does not destroy them. They are reparable, and the Catalyst even tells you so.

[Tex]

With high EMS, the destroy option damages the relays - it does not destroy them. They are reparable, and the Catalyst even tells you so.

Hm interesting thank you for clearing this up for me Pasquale.

[NM_Che56]

Now that I think about it there would be no way to repair the relays if you go with Destroy because unless you go with either Synthesis or Control the reapers and everything technological gets scrambled and wiped out after all they were the ones who made the relays in the beginning so there's no way humanity and all the other races could or should be able to fix them I'd love to here Bioware explain that one.

Not according to Admiral H.  

[Tonymac]

I have over 30,000 EMS because I play Multiplayer a lot.  Even if you choose destroy with 30K EMS, the Relays are toast. (that's what I saw anyways)  They may be repairable, however they are inoperative.  They also have no more Eezo cores, and in Relays Eezo cores are immense.  ( I am assuming it is Eezo between the two spinny circle thingies in the Relay)  So, we will need a lot of pure Eezo, which is hard to mine and dangerous to acquire because the majority of it is found close to Neutron stars and Pulsars that had impacts with planetary sized objects.  The radiation levels are lethal, so you need a lot of robotcs and telepresence and shielding.   This is one of the reasons why Eezo is so expensive. 

 

The other real problem with this is the huge distances between the Relays.  It will take lifetimes at our FTL speeds to make it, and for every 2 relays repaired you get one path.  Also, once you work your way all the way up to a Primary Relay you have to fly to its counterpart - and this can be a significant portion of the width of the galaxy.  Seeing as the galaxy is 100,000 -180,000 light years across (estimate vary, and its not a perfect circle) )you get an idea of how much work the Reapers did.  

 

One of the things that I really enjoyed about the series was the depth of the story.  Mass Relays were a huge part of that story - and they were wicked in their design.  The Reapers could just turn them off - after all that's how the Prothean Empire came crashing down.  The trap of using the Mass Effect Relays is the fact that we were dependent upon them.  It made the Protheans seem more noble and wise because they at least had the Conduit - an in our cycle we were no where near the advancement of the Protheans.

 

Sadly, ME3 did not make use of the Reaper IFF we got in ME2 - I expected the Normandy to have to lead all major invasions and to have the Relays locked out to anyone with out an IFF.  Alas, what the story could have been.

[Tex]

Yeah that's what I thought Tonymac but everyone says that's not the case hm oh well.

[themikefest]

With high EMS, the destroy option damages the relays - it does not destroy them. They are reparable, and the Catalyst even tells you so.

That's not only for high ems, but for ems above 1750. It just takes longer to repair them

[dreamgazer]

Sadly, ME3 did not make use of the Reaper IFF we got in ME2 - I expected the Normandy to have to lead all major invasions and to have the Relays locked out to anyone with out an IFF. Alas, what the story could have been.

Yikes. To be honest, the bold part of this makes me glad we got what we got. The last thing Mass Effect needed more of was power-fantasy, and that dials it way, way high while introducing a mountain of implausibility about relay access, resource attainment, and general success rate.

[Tonymac]

Yikes. To be honest, the bold part of this makes me glad we got what we got. The last thing Mass Effect needed more of was power-fantasy, and that dials it way, way high while introducing a mountain of implausibility about relay access, resource attainment, and general success rate.

So, instead, we have this silly notion that we are so much of a joke of a cycle that the Reapers didn't even bother to lock out the relays.  Even though we delayed the invasion and were the first cycle to do that in how long?

[kingkonig]

The other real problem with this is the huge distances between the Relays.  It will take lifetimes at our FTL speeds to make it, and for every 2 relays repaired you get one path.  Also, once you work your way all the way up to a Primary Relay you have to fly to its counterpart - and this can be a significant portion of the width of the galaxy.  Seeing as the galaxy is 100,000 -180,000 light years across (estimate vary, and its not a perfect circle) )you get an idea of how much work the Reapers did.  

 

If I remember the codex entry correctly, it takes a Reaper 24 hours to go 30 light years, which is double the speed of a Citadel ship.  Non-military human ships can travel at 50 times the speed of light.  So even then, it would not take lifetimes for ships to get from Earth to Thessia or Palaven.

[Vazgen]

Why do you all think that there is one repair crew working on relays? Asari fix their relay, Turians fix theirs. Crucible engineers advise them via QEC. 

[Tex]

[quote name="Vazgen" post="18947790" timestamp="1428516661"]Why do you all think that there is one repair crew working on relays? Asari fix their relay, Turians fix theirs. Crucible engineers advise them via QEC.

[/quote][quote name="Tonymac" post="18943793" timestamp="1428445540"]I have over 30,000 EMS because I play Multiplayer a lot.  Even if you choose destroy with 30K EMS, the Relays are toast. (that's what I saw anyways)  They may be repairable, however they are inoperative.  They also have no more Eezo cores, and in Relays Eezo cores are immense.  ( I am assuming it is Eezo between the two spinny circle thingies in the Relay)  So, we will need a lot of pure Eezo, which is hard to mine and dangerous to acquire because the majority of it is found close to Neutron stars and Pulsars that had impacts with planetary sized objects.  The radiation levels are lethal, so you need a lot of robotcs and telepresence and shielding.   This is one of the reasons why Eezo is so expensive. 
 
But how is each race supposed to be able to do this ⬆️ Separately?

[CosmicGnosis]

Here's a quote from Lovecraft:

 

“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.”

 

I hate this way of thinking. "We shouldn't learn more because knowledge will destroy us!" Lovecraft was great at depicting the wonder and terror of the unknown, but he didn't have to be a champion of ignorance. And the Reapers are meant to represent the unknowable in Mass Effect. People like the Illusive Man, however, want to make the unknowable knowable, to vanquish Lovecraft. 

 

Destroying the Reapers kind of does that, but not to the same degree as Control and Synthesis. The gods can be killed, but much of what they are continues to remain a mystery in the Destroy ending. In Control, Shepard joins with the Reapers and ascends to "godhood", but the rest of the galaxy remains just as ignorant as before. Only Synthesis makes the Reapers completely knowable to all. It is the most Anti-Lovecraft ending, and that is why it is my preferred choice. 

[SwobyJ]

An argument (not saying I fully agree with it) could go that to 'know' such things beyond us, we have to become/be reborn into/etc something that is no longer 'we' anymore. 

 

That's one of the points against Synthesis. "I dunno what those things are, but they're no longer us/me." as in organic/human/individual. So 'we' lost. 'We' all died. That is somewhat expressed in Lovecraft - anyone who comes close to understanding the Elder Ones just can't take it in their mortal human shell. They crack. Or they have to transform into something alien.

 

Again, not saying I agree with it, but its a common response to such prospects. That if we do endeavor to such degrees of knowledge, we'll have to lose more and more of our previous self along the way, until we are eventually unidentifiable.

 

Synthesis is indeed the first positive (or at least neutral) expression of this in Mass Effect, seemingly saying that yes, if we try and do it right, we can still be 'us', but there's still that possibly legitimate counterpoint that no, we are not really 'us' anymore. Cue the posthuman+spiritual views on the soul/anima, that we still live on in Synthesis forms, the change made so quickly that we maintain who we are, where it really counts.

[CosmicGnosis]

An argument (not saying I fully agree with it) could go that to 'know' such things beyond us, we have to become/be reborn into/etc something that is no longer 'we' anymore. 

 

That's one of the points against Synthesis. "I dunno what those things are, but they're no longer us/me." as in organic/human/individual. So 'we' lost. 'We' all died. That is somewhat expressed in Lovecraft - anyone who comes close to understanding the Elder Ones just can't take it in their mortal human shell. They crack. Or they have to transform into something alien.

"I think we'd rather keep our own form."

 

"No, you can't."

 

Exactly. Ieldra described this dilemma perfectly in his Synthesis thread. If you think that Synthesis will make you more than human, then you will find it desirable. If you think it will make you less than human, then you will reject it.

[SwobyJ]

"I think we'd rather keep our own form."

 

"No, you can't."

 

Exactly. Ieldra described this dilemma perfectly in his Synthesis thread. If you think that Synthesis will make you more than human, then you will find it desirable. If you think it will make you less than human, then you will reject it.

 

Yep. Well, seemingly they can, just not under the Reaper galactic authority of the Harvest haha. Destroy them and see if organics figure out a perpetual model that keeps organics in organic form, even knowing that there's Reaper extent of tech. Control them and see if Shepalyst will not crack and try to put everyone in Reaper form in some way.

 

Its only Synthesis that asserts that organics are not to stay in organic form. There are enough players, more than enough, that don't think that posthumanity is an inevitability. I guess part of my slight sympathy for Synthesis is that yes, I really don't think that humans will always stay in a form that they or we'd currently call human. At some point, as long as we survive to make that transition. I don't necessarily think 'Synthesis' needs to happen, but something will. But many don't think this.

 

 

Its actually somewhat pro-Synthesis of me to think that all of ME3 is a simulation in a Reaper because it means that Synthesis illustrates the ultimate truth of the ME3-game-world. That not only can posthumanity happen, it already did and will often happen on levels beyond our comprehension.

[D.C.]

that's right guys it's just duckies and bunnies out there....... lmao

[Tex]

that's right guys it's just duckies and bunnies out there....... lmao

There be the beast. Where behind the rabbit? It is the rabbit. Ah gotta love Monty Python sorry couldn't help myself.