24 réponses à ce sujet

[Cryos_Feron]

to say that the weapon evolution damage just stacks like any other bonuses?

 

I mean the ranks I - X of the weapon.

 

I just got my black widow from VI to VII and was     VERY happy ;-)

 

 

 

But according to Kalence this just gives me 2,5% damage increase.

 

I knew that it is just 2,5%.    BUT I thought that those 2,5% stand BEFORE the tactical cloak bonus,

character training and all other bufffs and bonuses. 

 

And honestly: this would make more sense, wouldn't it ?

 

So I am wondering if Kalence is wrong on that.

 

If not: It sadly means that the weapon rank doesn't really make a difference. I mean for the damage.

[The NightMan Cometh]

Sadly out of the 66 or so weapons we have..Only 3 of them benefit from a damage boost from levels 1-10 ...sorry to burst your bubble...but only difference in going from levels 1-10 in weapons are a boost in ammo capacity and lesser weight...A Level 1 Claymore causes as much damage as a Level 10 Claymore...A Level 1 Harrier causes the same amount of damage as a Level 10 Harrier....Also to add salt to your wound ..Santa Claus and the Easter bunny were a lie your parents told you.

[Deerber]

I'm not sure what you mean here... Could you clarify, please?

[The NightMan Cometh]

Deerber. OP is asking why there isnt a significant damage boost in weapons leveling up from 1-10..I was explaining there really arent any.

[Dalakaar]

Uh, every weapon gets a small damage boost with level.

 

Each level effects weight, mag size, and base damage.

 

It theoretically should be calculated before tac cloak bonus.

[The NightMan Cometh]

^^ I knew that, I was explaining dont expect an amazing change in damage boost from level 1 to 10 OP was expecting significant changes.

[The NightMan Cometh]

[Miniditka77]

Other people are right, a lot of weapons don't really improve that much from I-X.  Some weapons might have damage that crosses a OSK threshold at some point along the way (the BW is one of them, I believe).  Some weapons improve enough on weight that it makes a difference on some builds - e.g., I think the Claymore I is almost unusable on any non-infiltrator classes, unless you're OK with basically never using your powers other than quick-recharge powers like Cryo Blast or Pull.  The Javelin is unusable on many maps (esp. Condor) at low levels, because the reserve magazine is too small.  The biggest improvements are for the fixed-mag weapons though.  The CSR is probably the most affected, because there's nothing else you can do to change the mag size.

[The NightMan Cometh]

Other people are right, a lot of weapons don't really improve that much from I-X.  Some weapons might have damage that crosses a OSK threshold at some point along the way (the BW is one of them, I believe).  Some weapons improve enough on weight that it makes a difference on some builds - e.g., I think the Claymore I is almost unusable on any non-infiltrator classes, unless you're OK with basically never using your powers other than quick-recharge powers like Cryo Blast or Pull.  The Javelin is unusable on many maps (esp. Condor) at low levels, because the reserve magazine is too small.  The biggest improvements are for the fixed-mag weapons though.  The CSR is probably the most affected, because there's nothing else you can do to change the mag size.

You are correct....I have an alt PS3 account...recently I got the vanilla widow level 1....threw it on Salarian Eng...My God...the weight of that thing..I forgot how much these guns weighed at lower levels..I think his cooldown time was -55  ...mother of dragons

[Alfonsedode]

It s the base weapon damage, so yeah, its before all bonuses and cloak. Just look at the weapon damage formula in the library

[MajorStupidity]

Try this to see weapon stats breakdown

 

the difference between a Black widow I and a X is about 200 damage per shot (739-923) so each rank would be about 18-20 damage.

[Cyonan]

The difference between I and X damage for most guns including the Black Widow is ~25%. If I remember right the PPR is the highest at 34%.

 

The damage changes the gun's base damage and is applied before anything else, however because there is only percentage based increases in the game it remains a 25% damage increases from I to X regardless of before or after bonuses.

[Cryos_Feron]

Deerber. OP is asking why there isnt a significant damage boost in weapons leveling up from 1-10..I was explaining there really arent any.

no, I actually knew that it is only 2.5 % per level

my point is:
according to Kalence, those totally 25% from level I to X aren't applied BEFORE the ability bonuses such as tactical cloak, character training, consumables, etc.

and this does not make any sense,

plus it makes the weapon evolutions only little attractive (damage wise)

so, could it be that Kalence is wrong?

[Deerber]

no, I actually knew that it is only 2.5 % per level

my point is:
according to Kalence, those totally 25% from level I to X aren't applied BEFORE the ability bonuses such as tactical cloak, character training, consumables, etc.

and this does not make any sense,

plus it makes the weapon evolutions only little attractive (damage wise)

so, could it be that Kalence is wrong?

 

And again, could you clarify what you mean by "applied before"? It can mean several things, and the answer is different for them.

[Cyonan]

no, I actually knew that it is only 2.5 % per level

my point is:
according to Kalence, those totally 25% from level I to X aren't applied BEFORE the ability bonuses such as tactical cloak, character training, consumables, etc.

and this does not make any sense,

plus it makes the weapon evolutions only little attractive (damage wise)

so, could it be that Kalence is wrong?

 

It's all percentages so it wouldn't matter.

 

100 * 1.25 * 1.5 is the same number as 100 * 1.5 * 1.25. They're both going to end up being 187.5.

 

However the way the game looks at it would actually be: 125 * 1.5. Increases in weapon level alter the base damage rather than applying a x% damage increase to it.

 

If you look at the damage per hit as a number then your character training damage increases will go up with weapon level. Damage as a percentage will remain the same.

[Cryos_Feron]

are you kidding me?

with percentages it makes a huge difference if you first apply a certain value
and then take the new result as base for the next bonuses,

... or if you just add (stack) all bonuses and apply the percentage then altogether

[Dalakaar]

Multiplicative vs additive.

 

Tis additive.

 

Ney?

[Cryos_Feron]

best example:

The evo 6 of tactical cloak is multiplicative (applied at the end after all bonues were already applied) 

and not additive, which makes a big difference.

Evolution 4 for example does just stack additively.

 

Following things are multiplicative, too:

Snap freeze + 10% damage

Warp 10%, Proximity Mine Evo 5 (+20% damage from all sources), Recon Mine evo 6 (+25% damage from all sources)

etc. etc. 

Those are applied at the very end as a new calculation.

 

While for example following things surprisingly only make very little difference:

all the gear bonuses such as Sniper V (15%) etc.

[Cyonan]

best example:

The evo 6 of tactical cloak is multiplicative (applied at the end after all bonues were already applied) 

and not additive, which makes a big difference.

Evolution 4 for example does just stack additively.

 

Following things are multiplicative, too:

Snap freeze + 10% damage

Warp 10%, Proximity Mine Evo 5 (+20% damage from all sources), Recon Mine evo 6 (+25% damage from all sources)

etc. etc. 

Those are applied at the very end as a new calculation.

 

While for example following things surprisingly only make very little difference:

all the gear bonuses such as Sniper V (15%) etc.

 

You're talking about additive vs multiplicative.

 

I'm saying that with multiple multiplicative increases, the order in which you apply them does not matter when looking at the final number. As I said before, 100 * 1.25 * 1.5 will calculate out to the same number as 100 * 1.5 * 1.25.

 

From a technical standpoint, damage from weapon levels is not applied anywhere in the damage formula. It simply changes what the value of your gun's base damage is.

 

However functionally, it works pretty much just like a multiplicative bonus.

[Cryos_Feron]

but not according to kalence...

this was my whole point... the whole time.

the weapon level gain should be BASE damage.
but it is not.


so, is kalence wrong?? this is what I was hoping for.

[Deerber]

so, is kalence wrong?? this is what I was hoping for.

No, you are wrong.

[Cryos_Feron]

already waited for something like that from you.

funny because I really did.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Because I can't understand what you're on about, Deerber's right.

[Cyonan]

but not according to kalence...

this was my whole point... the whole time.

the weapon level gain should be BASE damage.
but it is not.


so, is kalence wrong?? this is what I was hoping for.

 

Kalence is not wrong, and they actually are increasing the weapon's base damage with each level.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting that it's not.

[ToYz_R_RusH]

Looks like nobody's seeing what you're seeing...(?)

 

GI Javelin (I)

 

Base damage: 1236 (Level I Javelin weapon damage)

Rank 1 cloak: 1730 (40% more than base weapon damage at level I)

Rank 4 cloak: 2225 (80% more than base weapon damage at level I)

Rank 6 cloak: 2781 (25% more damage than rank 4 damage)

 

GI Javelin (X)

Base damage: 1546 (25% more damage than weapon at level I)

Rank 1 cloak: 2164 (40% more than base weapon damage at level X)

Rank 4 cloak: 2782 (80% more than base weapon damage at level X)

Rank 6 cloak: 3478 (25% more damage than rank 4 damage)

 

Seems like it's calculating properly to me...(perhaps reword your findings so we can better understand?)

 

There is a difference in damage between level I and X, but you won't notice it much except on certain weapons.  The Adas, for example, only sees an 83.11 DPS increase (assuming reload cancel, no bonuses in passives, etc) whereas the Raider sees an increase in 245.39 DPS.

 

Yes, a level X does more damage than a level I weapon, however the results are rather minimal.  I'll take a level X claymoar over a level I any day, but a claymoar is a claymoar... the javelin is a javelin, and the harrier is still a crappy weapon.  That is all.