60 réponses à ce sujet

[Aetika]

The game is what it is. It´s in desperate need of new content, but I still find it fun. I understand some people are disappointed, but those passive aggressive threads however are just stupid. No wonder BW doesn´t engage much on this boards.

[Kenny Bania]

The game is what it is. It´s in desperate need of new content, but I still find it fun. I understand some people are disappointed, but those passive aggressive threads however are just stupid. No wonder BW doesn´t engage much on this boards.

 

You don't see how they are to blame for the passive-aggressive threads in the first instance?

[TormDK]

No, I don't. Regardless of what Bioware may or may not have done.

[SofaJockey]

I don't either.

By all means say what you like or don't like, but snide sniping just creates an unpleasant environment.

I like to come to the forums as a pleasant diversion from a game I enjoy, but it's hard work sometimes...

[Aetika]

You don't see how they are to blame for the passive-aggressive threads in the first instance?

I don´t actually either.

And I think there can be civil discussion, but these threads are not that.

[ChessEffect]

I don´t actually either.

And I think there can be civil discussion, but these threads are not that.

 

This thread has been fairly civil really. It hasn't been gagged yet anyway.

 

The problem is that the devs have never communicated on key problems with the game. They haven't even acknowledged them. If they had come out and said Yeah we're going to look at the connection issues or We're hoping to improve the netcode in the future then we wouldn't have to keep complaining about it.

 

You would think that ensuring players could connect to and play with each other would be a fundamental aspect of designing a multiplayer game. That should have been part of the development cycle early on.

[SofaJockey]

This thread has been fairly civil really. It hasn't been gagged yet anyway.

 

The problem is that the devs have never communicated on key problems with the game. They haven't even acknowledged them. If they had come out and said Yeah we're going to look at the connection issues or We're hoping to improve the netcode in the future then we wouldn't have to keep complaining about it.

 

You would think that ensuring players could connect to and play with each other would be a fundamental aspect of designing a multiplayer game. That should have been part of the development cycle early on.

 

I find the moderators to be pretty tolerant of feedback. The key glitch was certainly acknowledged and with some struggle resolved. I'm sorry I don't know enough about netcode to judge, though I assume it affects folk very differently. Some can play pretty much lag-free, others suffer regularly. I don't know how to judge whether issues are either down to the individual internet connection or the game's code.

[Yuanrang]

People are complaining yet we all play it. I'd say well done Bioware.

Actually, I am not. I am merely visiting the Forums to see if there are any actual content releases/data mining done to imply something will come, with the off-chance of chatting with former friends. I am done defending this mode, which depress me, because it was amazing fun before the reality of the loot system, the rampant (and crippling) bugs as well as lengthy absence of any content got to me.

[TormDK]

This thread has been fairly civil really. It hasn't been gagged yet anyway.

 

The problem is that the devs have never communicated on key problems with the game. They haven't even acknowledged them. If they had come out and said Yeah we're going to look at the connection issues or We're hoping to improve the netcode in the future then we wouldn't have to keep complaining about it.

 

You would think that ensuring players could connect to and play with each other would be a fundamental aspect of designing a multiplayer game. That should have been part of the development cycle early on.

 

What you want, may not be what I want, and visa versa.

 

Multiply that by the millions of copies sold, and I think it's pretty clear why they do not engage the community at large on their development schedule. You have a bunch of loud mouths claiming to know better, regardless of what you did. Such is the nature of the internet.

 

Plus of course the whole accounting aspect (Read twitter for insights into that part, the devs have already explained part of their communication, or percieved lack thereof there.)

 

Not to mention the "Per design" discussion, whereby people seem to think that because something is what they personally consider bad design, that things should be changed to better suit their viewpoints.

[DragonRacer]

This thread has been fairly civil really. It hasn't been gagged yet anyway.

 

The problem is that the devs have never communicated on key problems with the game. They haven't even acknowledged them. If they had come out and said Yeah we're going to look at the connection issues or We're hoping to improve the netcode in the future then we wouldn't have to keep complaining about it.

 

You would think that ensuring players could connect to and play with each other would be a fundamental aspect of designing a multiplayer game. That should have been part of the development cycle early on.

 

Just for the record, there might be some things they aren't actually allowed to acknowledge.

 

I say this as a PS3 player of ME3MP who remembers being able to play Unknown/Unknown/Gold once upon a time... before Collectors were introduced and a memory leak problem that had been patched became unpatched. To this day, playing too many matches in a row without rebooting the console or getting Collectors in general or getting a Hazard map (especially Ghost) are all recipes for a potential hard freeze of the entire system.

 

It is literally Russian Roulette with your console.

 

This was never fixed. This was never publicly acknowledged as even existing by BioWare.

 

So, I'm not entirely sure why everyone here assumed DAIMP would be any different at all (insofar as some sort of open dev transparency on the forum regarding issues/bugs). Whatsoever.

 

I can literally rewrite the above post by changing a few words and it would be relevant to a game that was awesome and that everyone here uses as a comparison of the pinnacle of online gaming, yet was (and still is) significantly flawed:

 

"This thread has been fairly civil really. It hasn't been gagged yet anyway.

 

The problem is that the devs have never communicated on key problems with the game. They haven't even acknowledged them. If they had come out and said Yeah we're going to look at the connection freeze issues or We're hoping to improve the netcode in the future then we wouldn't have to keep complaining about it.

 

You would think that ensuring players' could connect to and play with each other consoles don't freeze or face irreparable damage would be a fundamental aspect of designing a multiplayer game. That should have been part of the development cycle early on."

[Kenny Bania]

I don´t actually either.

And I think there can be civil discussion, but these threads are not that.

 

Not even a litle bit? The release of a game with myriad bugs, some game-breaking, that went unacknowledged for long periods isn't an issue? The lack of any decent support or content this far in even though they gave off the impression (promised) we'd have way more than ME3 did isn't a reason for people to get "a little upset".

 

The key factor in creating this "toxic" environment in the first instance was the lack of communication from anyone regarding anything. A simple "Oops, we messed up on x, y and z and are looking into fixing those" would've gone a long way. Instead,we got nothing.

[Aetika]

No, not really. The game has flaws and devs don´t feel up to engage in discussion isn´t enough to provoke such reaction from me(but then, I am not easy to anger person)

I also don´t think there is really toxic environment here, but there certainly are discontent people and some of them can be quite...blunt about it, which makes it somehow tense around here.

I believe one of the reasons devs of ME3 interacted more with players was because they felt welcomed there. If they feel like 20 people will jump their throat anytime they make appearance, they won´t. And I can´t blame them.

 

Just wanted to point out that we still don´t know if the support will be more or less then what ME3 got. Even though it´s less for now, it can change. 

[AbyssMessiah]

Just wanted to point out that we still don´t know if the support will be more or less then what ME3 got. Even though it´s less for now, it can change. 

As a comparison, GTA 5 got Heists about 16 months after it launched - and it was considered a "main feature" and advertised as such in their preview, from a publisher that has an infinite better name than EA`s, or a dev that has at least an equal standard of quality as Bioware.

 

So, let`s sit tight and wait for the next 16 months, shall we?

[Kenny Bania]

No, not really. The game has flaws and devs don´t feel up to engage in discussion isn´t enough to provoke such reaction from me(but then, I am not easy to anger person)
I also don´t think there is really toxic environment here, but there certainly are discontent people and some of them can be quite...blunt about it, which makes it somehow tense around here.
I believe one of the reasons devs of ME3 interacted more with players was because they felt welcomed there. If they feel like 20 people will jump their throat anytime they make appearance, they won´t. And I can´t blame them.
 
Just wanted to point out that we still don´t know if the support will be more or less then what ME3 got. Even though it´s less for now, it can change. 

I guess we're built differently. I, just like Penguin laughed at and shut down posters on here early on when they made some of the same complaints we're making now. The difference is I was a lot more patient than they were, and gave them enough time to handle it. Guess what? They haven't.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume we won't be getting anywhere near the amount of support ME3 did. They're hardly going to put a lot of effort for a long time into a dying player base.

And once again, the main reason for the toxicity here was the lack of communication about anything in the first place. Yeah, you'll have a few wackjobs that'll complain about any and every thing, but they usually get shut down by the rest like we used to here.

[Aetika]

I guess we're built differently. I, just like Penguin laughed at and shut down posters on here early on when they made some of the same complaints we're making now. The difference is I was a lot more patient than they were, and gave them enough time to handle it. Guess what? They haven't.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume we won't be getting anywhere near the amount of support ME3 did. They're hardly going to put a lot of effort for a long time into a dying player base.

And once again, the main reason for the toxicity here was the lack of communication about anything in the first place. Yeah, you'll have a few wackjobs that'll complain about any and every thing, but they usually get shut down by the rest like we used to here.

 

Don´t give up! There still might be some massive dlc in work. With 7 new types of Arcane Warriors! 

Though I admit, I too, am bit worried they won´t be able to break this "dying spiral" and instead the effect will become the cause.

[SofaJockey]

Not even a litle bit? The release of a game with myriad bugs, some game-breaking, that went unacknowledged for long periods isn't an issue? The lack of any decent support or content this far in even though they gave off the impression (promised) we'd have way more than ME3 did isn't a reason for people to get "a little upset".

 

The key factor in creating this "toxic" environment in the first instance was the lack of communication from anyone regarding anything. A simple "Oops, we messed up on x, y and z and are looking into fixing those" would've gone a long way. Instead,we got nothing.

 

In many respects you are quite correct, though as you'd expect from me, there is a 'but'... 

 

Bugs in the multiplayer, some minor ones, sure, travel to Narnia being the weirdest, though connectivity related as I understand.

The biggest 'oops' moment for me was the key glitch, a genuinely game breaking bug and included in a release just before the holidays. We know all about the several weeks of silence and the angry/toxic threads that whilst they got out of hand, had an impetus that was understandable.

 

I think over the holidays/new year, devs taking some time off aside, it would have been helpful if there had been some more input, even if it was 'we're on holidays guys, catch this when we are back.'.

 

Having a glitch as frustrating as the key glitch in a DLC released just before the holidays was truly lousy timing.

 

Since mid-late January we've seen more from folk like Blair, Graham and Conal, and I think we are getting there.

 

The 'promise' of more content, unless you have another source is from this PCGamer interview with an un-named 'BioWare representative' talking about support 'far beyond Mass Effect 3' and 'they have a lot of content planned for Dragon Age for months on end.'

 

http://www.pcgamer.c...-mass-effect-3/

 

So I expect more stuff to come including the content-that-shall-not-be-named...

DAMP and MEMP content are not identical, so I'd expect to see about the same amount of extra content as ME3 but spread out over a slightly longer timescale. If DAMP is supported across 2015 it will have had support 'beyond' MEMP's year.

 

I'm probably more forgiving than many, I would rather BioWare dealt with any remaining single player issues and made robust MP DLC that doesn't repeat the key glitch, so I'm not angry. I try to reserve anger for 'bigger things in life'.

 

TL;DR 

 

Sure feeling 'a little upset' is perfectly rational (and I've been hopeful to see DLC drop for a couple of weeks now) but when it does it is more important that it works than that it drops a few days or a week or two earlier. And when it drops (assuming it all works) I think it would be right to let some of that anger go...

 

EDIT: And for all the falling out with Penguin, I still see him on the Twitch stream... I hope whatever happened there is not permanent. (even Loghain got a reprieve...)

[scene_cachet]

The game is what it is. It´s in desperate need of new content, but I still find it fun. I understand some people are disappointed, but those passive aggressive threads however are just stupid. No wonder BW doesn´t engage much on this boards.

 

It's actually because of these aggressive and passive aggressive posts that they had to start interacting with the community and fixing things. 

Nothing was getting done with all the people pretending nothing was wrong or giving them a pass because they were Bioware.

So thanks to all the negative responses because without them people would still be playing with the key glitch with their heads in the sand.

 

Regardless if the Key glitch was pre or post holiday season, the fact that it got past QA is mind boggling, it's not like it was issolated cases. 

Another reminder is we're 6 months still some of the weaponry abilities still don't work. 

 

Toxicity only exists when you let it fester and not do anything about it. 

[Aetika]

It's actually because of these aggressive and passive aggressive posts that they had to start interacting with the community and fixing things. 
Nothing was getting done with all the people pretending nothing was wrong or giving them a pass because they were Bioware.
So thanks to all the negative responses because without them people would still be playing with the key glitch with their heads in the sand.

Ha, keep deluding yourself! 

[scene_cachet]

Ha, keep deluding yourself! 

 

 

Well you can go through the threads and see if the "possitive/head in the sand attitude" posts were what were getting answers/solutions or the "Passive Aggressive posts" were the ones getting anwsers.

 

Then we can tally up what the "possitive, can do attitude" has contributed to the game being less broken.

[Aetika]

Well you can go through the threads and see if the "possitive/head in the sand attitude" posts were what were getting answers/solutions or the "Passive Aggressive posts" were the ones getting anwsers.

So you are suggesting that BW didn´t care about the glitch and it was only because some people started being angry and aggressive about it, that they fixed it?
I simply disagree with that opinion.

[scene_cachet]

As a comparison, GTA 5 got Heists about 16 months after it launched - and it was considered a "main feature" and advertised as such in their preview, from a publisher that has an infinite better name than EA`s, or a dev that has at least an equal standard of quality as Bioware.

 

So, let`s sit tight and wait for the next 16 months, shall we?

 

To be fair... If the DAMP multiplayer was completely housed within the Single Player game world like the GTA V MP is then I would be happy to wait 16 months for DLC. But the fact is it's set in 3 small maps, not a sprawling open world MP experience. 

[SofaJockey]

Well you can go through the threads and see if the "possitive/head in the sand attitude" posts were what were getting answers/solutions or the "Passive Aggressive posts" were the ones getting anwsers.

 

There's somewhat of a mixed answer on that.

 

The 'PC Community Concerns' thread (nearly 700 pages of it as there is) has been getting responses in the form of patch actions, and 'we're looking at it' comments from Conal, even if not always of a form to satisfy all the posters.

 

The 'Bring back the Exploits' thread (all 54 pages of that) has never had any BioWare feedback and I would be surprised if it gets any.

 

So 'complaints' are still judged by BioWare based on their perception of what is an issue and whether the feedback is credible (constructively expressed or not).

 

Would we have had an Extended Cut of the ME3 ending without a load of fuss? Probably not.

Would the key glitch have been fixed without angry complaint? Yes (not least because it affects platinum sales).

[scene_cachet]

 

Would we have had an Extended Cut of the ME3 ending without a load of fuss? Probably not.

Would the key glitch have been fixed without angry complaint? Yes (not least because it affects platinum sales).

 

You're assuming that:

 

A.they'remaking enough money off platinum sales to really care about fixing things

B.People who buy platinum actually play the game enough to care about the key glitch.

 

I'd imagine negative posts in their FB/Twitter/Metacritic/Forums are bad PR and more costly to the company if they don't do anything about it than the select few who buy platinum.

[SofaJockey]

You're assuming that:

 

A.they'remaking enough money off platinum sales to really care about fixing things

B.People who buy platinum actually play the game enough to care about the key glitch.

 

I'd imagine negative posts in their FB/Twitter/Metacritic/Forums are bad PR and more costly to the company if they don't do anything about it than the select few who buy platinum.

 

Yep I think I am assuming that, as I guess you are assuming the contrary.

Interesting to share these perspectives.