45 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

simple math, starts at 50% then rank 4 reduces by 40%. im starting to think you haven't read what his power tree says

 

Math is a wonderful beast. If one does not clearly indicate what the percentages are of, or whether they are additive or multiplicative, then there is nothing "simple" about it.

 

In this instance, a 40% reduction of the shield penalty could mean either 40% of the current penalty (which would not leave 10% of the original base total, it would restore 40% of 500, which is 200) or subtracting 40 from the original 50% penalty. Technically, according to the language in the description, it actually should be the former, but according to the testing, it is the latter.

 

Based solely on a reading of the power tree, your interpretation would likely be wrong, which is why people ask these questions.

[Turian Master Race]

,said Master Race guy, from glass house.

said the Krogan ... hey wait, we played together a few days ago, you were the hot pink krogan meleeing pretorians. I played a claymore FQE. Hats off, you played very well. GG.

[Shampoohorn]

said the Krogan ... hey wait, we played together a few days ago, you were the hot pink krogan meleeing pretorians. I played a claymore FQE. Hats off, you played very well. GG.

 

 

Likewise.  I tend to play a bit more boldly when I I see good teammates and knew your name from either old pug games or here, or both.  Apologies if that was the Warlord on White game I played.  I was a bit over the top there and got at least one early wave sync-kill.  Hopefully it was one of my face krogan games.  I've been on a roll with those boys lately and any late wave praymaxian space crab is gonna get some face time.

 

Also, my comment was meant ironically about your user name in context with what you wrote.  Not that you wrote something equivalently db-ish, which you hadn't.  Was much funnier at 1am.

[Krazy_Kirby]

Based solely on a reading of the power tree, your interpretation would likely be wrong, which is why people ask these questions.

so the power tree saying hml at rank 1 reduces shields by 50% and then at 4 says reduces shield penalty by 40% would provide a wrong interpretation? seems like a learn 2 read problem then because it's straightforward unlike some other power trees

[Turian Master Race]

Likewise.  I tend to play a bit more boldly when I I see good teammates and knew your name from either old pug games or here, or both.  Apologies if that was the Warlord on White game I played.  I was a bit over the top there and got at least one early wave sync-kill.  Hopefully it was one of my face krogan games.  I've been on a roll with those boys lately and any late wave praymaxian space crab is gonna get some face time.

 

Actually it was Giant. What was really impressive is not that you meleed pretorians but that you managed to stay alive. At least I do not remember that you would have been grabbed.

 

ps. I do not know how could those pretorians miss a large krogan in hot pink armour

[Deerber]

so the power tree saying hml at rank 1 reduces shields by 50% and then at 4 says reduces shield penalty by 40% would provide a wrong interpretation? seems like a learn 2 read problem then because it's straightforward unlike some other power trees

 

Actually, it sounds more like a lnot2beanasshole problem on your side. Oh, and also a l2math, but that's secondary.

[Shampoohorn]

Actually it was Giant. What was really impressive is not that you meleed pretorians but that you managed to stay alive. At least I do not remember that you would have been grabbed.
 
ps. I do not know how could those pretorians miss a large krogan in hot pink armour

Thanks.  They're used to seeing the pink on the inside, thus they think I'm already dead. 

Through trial and error, I've gotten pretty good with avoiding praetorian sync kills with krogans:

 

1) Nearly always one free melee when they start their lazors. Two is risky, but possible.

 

2) Juggy teammates (like I think we had on Giant) are actually useful for drawing claw attacks and aggro in general.

 

3) Starting a melee while the crab jumps is another freebie

 

4) If you're team has a strong DPS player on it, you can get away with a lot. If I've got a Claymore GI on my flank I'll risk the grab and trust they'll stagger it out of the sync animation.

 

5) End of waves! The more of the team targetting the crab, the safer my krogan melee is. Also, the consequence of getting crunched is less hurtful to the team.

 

6) Ramps! Dagger has a few nice ones. And a properly setup krogan has enough DR and protections to weather lots of bs claw attacks on said ramp.

 

7) Melee attacks that break the crabs barrier gate have a few tactical advantages. Higher damage from the outset since you're not going up against armor's 25% resistance to krogan heavy melee. Plus, you can be surer that the crab's stagger isn't on cooldown so you've got a better change at knockback or for a teammate to save you from a sync kill.

 

8) All krogans except the warlord can use a heavy melee to charge away from the crab and get out of grab range. It's possible with the warlord too, but is definitely harder.  If you can lock onto a nearby mook, you'll get even farther away.

 

9) The Graal is an excellent companion for the melee krogan. Keep it charged while you melee and release it when the crab tries to stagger you. Yet another damage spike that might stagger the beast.

 

10) Both my krentinel and kroldier run no passive builds, so I'll always try to fire off a power and a grenade as I engage for additional damage spikes.


I'd apply this list to atlases, scions and even brutes.

 

Phantoms are both easier (squishy) and harder (bs sync mechanics).

 

For banshees there is only one rule: avoid when moving, smash when standing.

 

I don't play the Destroyer much.

[justinman114]

Did someone say Learn 2 Read?!?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=wk1dtzKfnak

 

 

Edit:  How do I embed a video straight onto my post?

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

so the power tree saying hml at rank 1 reduces shields by 50% and then at 4 says reduces shield penalty by 40% would provide a wrong interpretation?

 

No, because what the power tree says doesn't provide an interpretation. It is the original statement. It is the person reading it who provides the interpretation.

 

seems like a learn 2 read problem then because it's straightforward unlike some other power trees

 

It would seem you failed to understand what I wrote, since I explained it already. I'll explain it again:

 

The penalty is 500 shields removed from the total. Reducing the penalty by 40% would reduce that penalty by 200 shields, leaving a penalty of 300 shields. Without specifying what the "40% reduction" specifically refers to, or whether it is additive or multiplicative, the most likely meaning is that the 40% reduction is applied to the penalty, not the base shield total.

 

Why? Because the sentence actually says: "Reduce the penalty by 40%," not "reduce the penalty from 50% to 10%," which would have been the more accurate and straightforward way of explaining it.

 

Would like me to repeat it again, or did you successfully read it this time? 

[Krazy_Kirby]

No, because what the power tree says doesn't provide an interpretation. It is the original statement. It is the person reading it who provides the interpretation.


It would seem you failed to understand what I wrote, since I explained it already. I'll explain it again:

The penalty is 500 shields removed from the total. Reducing the penalty by 40% would reduce that penalty by 200 shields, leaving a penalty of 300 shields. Without specifying what the "40% reduction" specifically refers to, or whether it is additive or multiplicative, the most likely meaning is that the 40% reduction is applied to the penalty, not the base shield total.

Why? Because the sentence actually says: "Reduce the penalty by 40%," not "reduce the penalty from 50% to 10%," which would have been the more accurate and straightforward way of explaining it.

Would like me to repeat it again, or did you successfully read it this time?

I successfully read it in game because I'm capable of understanding simple wording and reaching a logical conclusion

[Barrogh]

Well, Kalence suggests that "-40%" is additive, reducing penalty from 50% to 10% (from 500 shield points to 100).

I've never seen people pointing out that this is wrong, so there's that.

[Turian Master Race]

I successfully read it in game because I'm capable of understanding simple wording and reaching a logical conclusion

a, My original conclusion is confirmed.

 

b, Trust me everyone here is "capable of understanding simple wording and reaching a logical conclusion", you are not unique in this regard.

 

c, You are unique because you do not undertsand, or do not want to understand that the original text can be interpreted in different ways. It can be interpreted in different ways because the assumptions necessary to the successful interpretation are not provided in that context (i.e. multiplicative or additive and base shields or not). This uncertenaity of interpretations is there even if you are not aware of it. It is not your strenght i.e. "I'm -the only one here who is- capable of understanding simple wording and reaching a logical conclusion" but it is your weakness because you do not see or don't want to see the problem on the first place.

[Black_Mage]

8) All krogans except the warlord can use a heavy melee to charge away from the crab and get out of grab range. It's possible with the warlord too, but is definitely harder.  If you can lock onto a nearby mook, you'll get even farther away.

 

How do you heavy melee when you are being staggered at grab range?

[Krazy_Kirby]

It can be interpreted in different ways because the assumptions necessary to the successful interpretation are not provided in that context (i.e. multiplicative or additive and base shields or not).

its not my fault if people interpret it differently, it says 50% penalty then reduced penalty to 40%. there is no reason to believe it wouldn't be from base shields at rank 1 and then to decrease that same base penalty

[Barrogh]

its not my fault if people interpret it differently, it says 50% penalty then reduced penalty to 40%. there is no reason to believe it wouldn't be from base shields at rank 1 and then to decrease that same base penalty

It is not unreasonable to assume that it means "penalty reduced by 40% of that penalty value". Outside of ME3 it's often the case when percentages are used actually. But see above...

[Turian Master Race]

Thanks.  They're used to seeing the pink on the inside, thus they think I'm already dead. 

Through trial and error, I've gotten pretty good with avoiding praetorian sync kills with krogans:

 

1) Nearly always one free melee when they start their lazors. Two is risky, but possible.

 

2) Juggy teammates (like I think we had on Giant) are actually useful for drawing claw attacks and aggro in general.

 

3) Starting a melee while the crab jumps is another freebie

 

4) If you're team has a strong DPS player on it, you can get away with a lot. If I've got a Claymore GI on my flank I'll risk the grab and trust they'll stagger it out of the sync animation.

 

5) End of waves! The more of the team targetting the crab, the safer my krogan melee is. Also, the consequence of getting crunched is less hurtful to the team.

 

6) Ramps! Dagger has a few nice ones. And a properly setup krogan has enough DR and protections to weather lots of bs claw attacks on said ramp.

 

7) Melee attacks that break the crabs barrier gate have a few tactical advantages. Higher damage from the outset since you're not going up against armor's 25% resistance to krogan heavy melee. Plus, you can be surer that the crab's stagger isn't on cooldown so you've got a better change at knockback or for a teammate to save you from a sync kill.

 

8) All krogans except the warlord can use a heavy melee to charge away from the crab and get out of grab range. It's possible with the warlord too, but is definitely harder.  If you can lock onto a nearby mook, you'll get even farther away.

 

9) The Graal is an excellent companion for the melee krogan. Keep it charged while you melee and release it when the crab tries to stagger you. Yet another damage spike that might stagger the beast.

 

10) Both my krentinel and kroldier run no passive builds, so I'll always try to fire off a power and a grenade as I engage for additional damage spikes.


I'd apply this list to atlases, scions and even brutes.

 

Phantoms are both easier (squishy) and harder (bs sync mechanics).

 

For banshees there is only one rule: avoid when moving, smash when standing.

 

I don't play the Destroyer much.

Why don't you post it in a new thread? I am sure it would be helpful for a lot of people.

[Krazy_Kirby]

It is not unreasonable to assume that it means "penalty reduced by 40% of that penalty value". Outside of ME3 it's often the case when percentages are used actually. But see above...

funny how you only respond to my answer about it but someone posting about the same thing gets overlooked. i guess because they said that kalence says so that its ok but if someone just uses the game to understand it then they must be wrong or something

[Barrogh]

funny how you only respond to my answer about it but someone posting about the same thing gets overlooked. i guess because they said that kalence says so that its ok but if someone just uses the game to understand it then they must be wrong or something

Nah, it's way more simple. I just use whatever post was easier to reach to provide some context. Or your was the one I've seen first, I don't know.

[GruntKitterhand]

its not my fault if people interpret it differently, it says 50% penalty then reduced penalty to 40%. there is no reason to believe it wouldn't be from base shields at rank 1 and then to decrease that same base penalty

 

Leaving aside the fact that the emboldened section of your post is technically incorrect, you don't have to be stupid to fail to understand that the in-game description can be interpreted two ways, but you do have to be stupid to argue that it can't.

 

 

Thanks.  They're used to seeing the pink on the inside, thus they think I'm already dead.  

Through trial and error, I've gotten pretty good with avoiding praetorian sync kills with krogans:

 

1) Nearly always one free melee when they start their lazors. Two is risky, but possible.

 

2) Juggy teammates (like I think we had on Giant) are actually useful for drawing claw attacks and aggro in general.

 

3) Starting a melee while the crab jumps is another freebie

 

4) If you're team has a strong DPS player on it, you can get away with a lot. If I've got a Claymore GI on my flank I'll risk the grab and trust they'll stagger it out of the sync animation.

 

5) End of waves! The more of the team targetting the crab, the safer my krogan melee is. Also, the consequence of getting crunched is less hurtful to the team.

 

6) Ramps! Dagger has a few nice ones. And a properly setup krogan has enough DR and protections to weather lots of bs claw attacks on said ramp.

 

7) Melee attacks that break the crabs barrier gate have a few tactical advantages. Higher damage from the outset since you're not going up against armor's 25% resistance to krogan heavy melee. Plus, you can be surer that the crab's stagger isn't on cooldown so you've got a better change at knockback or for a teammate to save you from a sync kill.

 

8) All krogans except the warlord can use a heavy melee to charge away from the crab and get out of grab range. It's possible with the warlord too, but is definitely harder.  If you can lock onto a nearby mook, you'll get even farther away.

 

9) The Graal is an excellent companion for the melee krogan. Keep it charged while you melee and release it when the crab tries to stagger you. Yet another damage spike that might stagger the beast.

 

10) Both my krentinel and kroldier run no passive builds, so I'll always try to fire off a power and a grenade as I engage for additional damage spikes.


I'd apply this list to atlases, scions and even brutes.

 

Phantoms are both easier (squishy) and harder (bs sync mechanics).

 

For banshees there is only one rule: avoid when moving, smash when standing.

 

I don't play the Destroyer much. 

 

I am in awe to the extent that I would consider asking for your autograph irl.  

 

I've sussed out most of the main sync-kill risks, but I don't play Collectors too often on PS3 and when I do, Praetorians are usually off-limits due to my natural inclination to RUN LIKE F*CK!!!!!  

 

This is the only obvious significant pyjak-like weakness in my shiny pink armour, but I will keep your tips in mind the next time I go into battle.  

[Catastrophy]

funny how you only respond to my answer about it but someone posting about the same thing gets overlooked. i guess because they said that kalence says so that its ok but if someone just uses the game to understand it then they must be wrong or something

It reads "by" not "to" in the description of the evo.

[Shampoohorn]

Why don't you post it in a new thread? I am sure it would be helpful for a lot of people.

 
Good idea. Maybe during lunch today.
 

How do you heavy melee when you are being staggered at grab range?

You start the first heavy melee when you're out of grab range. Most of my other suggestions are about engaging when the crab is less likely to start it's stagger chain of claw attacks or getting out of range before it does. The main exception is on ramps, and in my experience you can melee through most of the claw swipes without being staggered. I think the only attacks that can stagger krogans out of heavy melee are forceful attacks from behind like marauder elbows or prime drone rockets. One of many advantages of krogan backhand over batarian fist.