252 réponses à ce sujet

[Geth Master Race]

So if you can't play these characters particularly effectively, why are you acting like the authority on Flamer kits when there are people who can play them better and insist the Geth Trooper is superior?

He doesn't seem to take advice very well either.

[MaxCrushmore]

I began to read all the responses here and my brain started to hurt.

 

 

Hey OP, assuming you are serious and not deliberately trolling, I have played much of all the flamethrower kits (even by BSN standards). Yes, the Vorcha are powerful and quite survivable. In experienced hands, the Geth Trooper is more powerful and survivable than the Vorcha`s.

 

The GT has greater overall ability to absorb damage (greater recoverable shields which regenerate quickly, plus up to %40 damage reduction), the Vorcha does not have that. As a Vorcha, I have to spend more time dodging back and forth while my Bloodlust regenerates health, as opposed to attacking. The GT has no such encumbrance and can attack a far greater percentage of the time.

 

The GT also does more damage with the flamer, that is straight up mathematical fact.

 

Let me reiterate, having played a crap ton of Vorcha and a crap ton of GT, the comparison isn't even close, the GT is far more powerful and withstands far more damage.

[LuckyStarr]

So if you can't play these characters particularly effectively, why are you acting like the authority on Flamer kits when there are people who can play them better and insist the Geth Trooper is superior?

Uhm. If GT is better, and I absolutely don't dismiss the idea that it is, there should be an objective reason why. I don't see any, and the people who responded hadn't really demonstrated any either, although they've tried.

[RayD3MSoC]

He doesn't seem to take advice very well either.

 

Let's be civil here.  I can see why Lucky is saying the things he is saying.

 

The Vorcha can definitely bullet sponge better, but is more vulnerable to heavy hitting enemies. 

 

The later is more useful to experienced players, and the former lets you get away with playing recklessly more frequently.

 

 

 

I began to read all the responses here and my brain started to hurt.

 

 

Hey OP, assuming you are serious and not deliberately trolling, I have played much of all the flamethrower kits (even by BSN standards). Yes, the Vorcha are powerful and quite survivable. In experienced hands, the Geth Trooper is more powerful and survivable than the Vorcha`s.

 

The GT has greater overall ability to absorb damage (greater recoverable shields which regenerate quickly, plus up to %40 damage reduction), the Vorcha does not have that. As a Vorcha, I have to spend more time dodging back and forth while my Bloodlust regenerates health, as opposed to attacking. The GT has no such encumbrance and can attack a far greater percentage of the time.

 

The GT also does more damage with the flamer, that is straight up mathematical fact.

 

Let me reiterate, having played a crap ton of Vorcha and a crap ton of GT, the comparison isn't even close, the GT is far more powerful and withstands far more damage.

 

I am the OP and I am in the GT > Vorcha Flamer camp, so I am not sure what your point is.  The thread started with me complaining about how much easier soloing Platinum was with the GT than the kits I used for my previous 3 solos.  Then, another individual began the Vorcha are better argument.

[MaxCrushmore]

I am the OP and I am in the GT > Vorcha Flamer camp, so I am not sure what your point is.  The thread started with me complaining about how much easier soloing Platinum was with the GT than the kits I used for my previous 3 solos.  Then, another individual began the Vorcha are better argument.

 

Hey it's Monday morning for me and your thread has been officially hijacked. Mr Starr is now the OP to whom I obviously posted

 

But yes, you are right the GT would be one of the easiest kits to solo Plat with (which I've never done - IMO boring / snooze)

[DaemionMoadrin]

Uhm. If GT is better, and I absolutely don't dismiss the idea that it is, there should be an objective reason why. I don't see any, and the people who responded hadn't really demonstrated any either, although they've tried.

 

It does more damage more quickly and more consistently. GT moves faster, sees more and can absorb more damage. We could even list that Geth get bonus damage when they use Geth weapons, something that does not exist for the Vorcha.

 

If you play the GT right, you will get hit significantly less than the Vorcha flamer, because a. you are faster and b. you see through walls.

[123123123]

I have proved. Dunno if you failed to see my arguments or just dismissed them without debating.

I have linked 2 similar builds that demonstrate the sacrifices (in terms of survivability) GT must commit to get the same or better flamer damage as Vorcha.

I did not discuss weapons-based GT builds, other than saying there are other soldiers that get higher weapon damage bonuses.

 

 

Oh yeah! When in doubt - just throw Harrier on it. Reegar is great, too. Except there are hardly any characters that can't make Harrier work (even if with varying success), and we weren't discussing weapon-based builds for the last 3 pages or so.

 

That was in reference to the person who said they used him w/o Flamer...

[123123123]

Why warp ammo?

 

Dmg + AD

[RayD3MSoC]

I'm posting here because I've played this game across two accounts 1200 hours. I see people giving you advice which you just ignore because "you know better then them"?? Then you spit nonsense bs in every other post you make. Sorry but not taking clusters on vorcha sentinel is already so ****** dumb that my brain hurts, then you argue about vorcha soldier being tankier/more survivable than Geth trooper which just make no sense if you're playing anything other than wood level. This is coming from someone who doesn't like GT. I find it monotonous and rather play Vorcha Sentinel with clusters if I'm "flaming".

 

As the more experienced player, you should certainly be able to explain your thoughts on the matter instead of resorting to "shut up noob and learn not to talk back when the good players are talking".

 

There is nothing wrong with challenging ideas that the community holds to be the gospel truth.

 

LuckyStarr did start it with "lol GT sucks, Vorcha so much betters", so you do kind of deserve what you got

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Geth get bonus damage when they use Geth weapons, something that does not exist for the Vorcha.

Vorcha should get bonus damage when using Blood Pack weapons. Biovar, plox.

[LuckyStarr]

It does more damage more quickly and more consistently. GT moves faster, sees more and can absorb more damage. We could even list that Geth get bonus damage when they use Geth weapons, something that does not exist for the Vorcha.

 

If you play the GT right, you will get hit significantly less than the Vorcha flamer, because a. you are faster and b. you see through walls.

Fair enough. Guess this the closest to an answer I can get around here (I'll note, though, that even with the 10% Geth weapon bonus GT's weapon damage is less than that of the TSol / Hsol / Destroyer / Quarksman).

I'm concluding that for some reason (that I still can't figure out), everyone else are taking much less incoming damage than me with GT, so their flamer uptime is higher than with Vorcha. In my case, Vorcha flamer uptime is easily over 1.5x higher than GT because I need to hide to regen constantly (or straight up wait to be revived).

 

/ thread hijack

[JRandall0308]

Whatever else you want to argue about, the Geth Trooper does more damage with Flamer than the Vorcha Sentinel. Period.

 

Geth Trooper 6/6/6/5/3 with Fortification and Hunter Mode on. Acolyte X with Power Mag V. No equipment.

Flamer does 585 (health) / 1316 (armor) / 585 (barrier) / 585 (shield)

http://kalence.drupa...307585!!!DAEB3C

 

Vorcha Sentinel 6/6/6/5/3 with Bloodlust on. Acolyte X with Power Mag V. No equipment.

Flamer does 480 (health) / 1080 (armor) / 480 (barrier) / 480 (shield)

http://kalence.drupa...307585!!!ED8B3G

[JRandall0308]

Vorcha flamer uptime is easily over 1.5x higher than GT because I need to hide to regen constantly (or straight up wait to be revived).

 

This is your problem. You should not be standing around flaming. You pulse the flamer just long enough to prime something for detonation, or to set up the DOT for Incendiary Cheese, or just the regular Flamer DOT that will kill lesser enemies by itself.

 

1-2 seconds of Flamer most of the time.

 

Flamer only on for a long time vs. big isolated targets like Praetorians, Banshees, Atlases.

[LuckyStarr]

Whatever else you want to argue about, the Geth Trooper does more damage with Flamer than the Vorcha Sentinel. Period.

 

Geth Trooper 6/6/6/5/3 with Fortification and Hunter Mode on. Acolyte X with Power Mag V. No equipment.

Flamer does 585 (health) / 1316 (armor) / 585 (barrier) / 585 (shield)

http://kalence.drupa...307585!!!DAEB3C

 

Vorcha Sentinel 6/6/6/5/3 with Bloodlust on. Acolyte X with Power Mag V. No equipment.

Flamer does 480 (health) / 1080 (armor) / 480 (barrier) / 480 (shield)

http://kalence.drupa...307585!!!ED8B3G

That's an ill argument because 975 health HP Bloodlust Vorcha >> 750 shield HP GT, even with 40% DR (1250 effective HP).

I swear that was my last objection.

[DisturbedPsic0]

As the more experienced player, you should certainly be able to explain your thoughts on the matter instead of resorting to "shut up noob and learn not to talk back when the good players are talking".

 

There is nothing wrong with challenging ideas that the community holds to be the gospel truth.

 

LuckyStarr did start it with "lol GT sucks, Vorcha so much betters", so you do kind of deserve what you got

There's nothing wrong with asking questions and challenging the answers. The problem comes in when you challenge informed answers with opinion. No one said GT is is better than vorcha so don't play vorcha. No one said vorcha suck as characters. What Lucky said was that the vorcha survive better and have better flamer. I can't count how many times we've shown him that the GT has the most powerful flamer in the game, and that's even with sacrificing power boosts that the vorcha can get. We've mentioned HM bonuses, fortification bonuses, playstyles, different gears you get access to with the GT and he keeps saying vorcha flamers are better "considering what you have to give up to survive as GT". Basically he thinks bloodlust cures all and that isn't the case. I've given up trying to reason with someone who isn't reasonable. I've chalked him up to either an amazing troll who isn't worth my time, or  someone who is just so stuck in their ways and convinced they're right about everything who just isn't worth my time. 

 

There are a lot of things in this game that are debatable and opinion based. The strength of powers isn't one of them, and yet he still continues to argue. That's why people are getting the way they're getting. Do yourself a favor and don't defend that kind of behavior. 

[MaxCrushmore]

That's an ill argument because 975 health HP Bloodlust Vorcha >> 750 shield HP GT.

I swear that was my last objection.

 

Base Shields on a GT is 1000, with full fitness they have 1650 shields. And they have DR from fortification .. your comparison is flawed and not even close. Base health for a Vorcha is 750, 1313 with full fitness, but no DR

[JRandall0308]

975 health HP Bloodlust Vorcha >> 750 shield HP GT, even with 40% DR

 

You do not understand the game mechanics if you believe that. Either that or you're trolling. Either way welcome to my ignore list.

[Miniditka77]

If you just want to spam Flamer at all the things, the GT is far and away the most effective Flamer class.

 

If you want to do the most damage the most quickly, the Vorcha Sentinel is the most effective Flamer class.  There are few other classes on the game where solo killstreaks can be had as easily as with the VSent.

 

But if you want fun, fire, and the real GRAAAGH!!! BURN ALL THE THINGS!!! Vorcha gameplay that leaves your teammates wondering whether your Vorcha has rabies and/or a methamphetamine additction, the Vorcha Soldier is the way to go.  You can't be lazy and flame things with him, you have to be constantly jumping and scurrying and shooting all over the place to get the most out of him.

[PHOEN1XK1NG]

GT can take down a Platinum level un-shielded Atlas in a single cast of Flamer.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Fair enough. Guess this the closest to an answer I can get around here (I'll note, though, that even with the 10% Geth weapon bonus GT's weapon damage is less than that of the TSol / Hsol / Destroyer / Quarksman).

I'm concluding that for some reason (that I still can't figure out), everyone else are taking much less incoming damage than me with GT, so their flamer uptime is higher than with Vorcha. In my case, Vorcha flamer uptime is easily over 1.5x higher than GT because I need to hide to regen constantly (or straight up wait to be revived).

 

/ thread hijack

 

Flamer uptime? There is no such thing. You pulse flamer, max 2sec. You should also use RHA (soft cover) and always keep an eye on ranged enemies. Position yourself properly and you'll live far longer.

 

Ideally you only take a few stray bullets before your target is on fire and can't attack for a few seconds. Exception: bosses. Banshee is predictable, Atlas is slow, Phantoms can't deal with Acolyte to the face, you can simply walk out of the way of a Brute, Ravagers are fairly squishy, Scions can be kept in melee attack mode indefinitely and Praetorians don't even attack for half the time.

 

It's as easy as learning to play. Get familiar with the attack patterns of all enemy units, memorize the spawns for every map and use the cover that exists literally everywhere. Worst case: sprint/evade in a lateral direction to minimize the fire you draw. Won't help with rockets but you can evade pretty much everything else that way. Hint: That's how Drells survive despite being one of the squishiest species available.

[Creator Limbs]

Did you just say you infrequently see the Geth Trooper?

 

Then it's finally happened.

[Ashevajak]

I'm rapidly running out of likes to give in this thread.

[DarkOrgasm]

this thead is BS