279 réponses à ce sujet

[TheN7Penguin]

Kaidan just annoys the hell out of me... I have no idea why. I think it's his voice which irritates me. And the fact I'm supposed to care he gets beaten up at the start of Mass Effect 3. He accused me of working with Cerberus and then there was Horizon... I'm not going to care about what happens.

Renegade option - shoot robot, leave Kaidan on Mars. Totally should have added that in.

"Commander, what are you doing?"

"There is a war on. This is no time for questioning the CO. Pick up the robot and lets go and talk to the council, and tell them what we've found."

"What about Kaidan?"

"He was a liability." *uses the pistol that Shepard just used to kill the robot to shoot Kaidan in the face*

[themikefest]

I guess with her, they want to make her different than Steve. She holds a lot of stuff in ("I wouldn't do any good crying in the CIC would I?"). 

 

But yeah, she deserves a drink (Or have something on the Citadel, like Steve did). It's my favorite thing about both of those characters... To me, they're better connections to ME2 than Garrus or Tali. "Fight for the lost.." And even Javik is.

It would be nice to have a paragon interrupt to give her a hug if romanced.

 

Either way, she sucked it up and continued doing her job. It gave her a bit of a backbone.

[CrutchCricket]

I thought you only get her Citadel line after convincing her to work on the Crucible?
What does Samara do? She goes after her daughters. What does Miranda do? She goes after her sister. Kasumi actually does something about Reaper War by giving Bau the information that can save hanar homeworld. She arguably saves more lives than those two combined.

Hence why I said "most are doing something for the war". Though Samara doesn't just "go after her daughters" she goes because contact with the monastary has been lost and safeguarding such establishments is a big part of a justicar's job. Why doesn't Samara join you after? Because she considers she'll be more useful elsewhere.
Miranda's lack of focus has been well criticized believe me. She still provides a better reason for not joining than Kasumi though (pre-Sanctuary. Post it's never brought up which can only be the mother of all oversights).

[Vazgen]

Hence why I said "most are doing something for the war". Though Samara doesn't just "go after her daughters" she goes because contact with the monastary has been lost and safeguarding such establishments is a big part of a justicar's job. Why doesn't Samara join you after? Because she considers she'll be more useful elsewhere.
Miranda's lack of focus has been well criticized believe me. She still provides a better reason for not joining than Kasumi though (pre-Sanctuary. Post it's never brought up which can only be the mother of all oversights).

I was simply bringing up that Kasumi does something about the war. Whether it's the only thing she does prior meeting Shepard is unknown. I think not. 

[Vazgen]

Really, I'm probably one of the lucky ones as a Jack fan. Her reasons make the most sense. And she becomes a good leader in her own right, with her own team. And her pickup mission is one of the best. I think they said they based it on Wolverine in X2, where he protects the mansion. And it was a nice tie in to some of the themes Karpynshyn did in his novels with Anderson and Kahlee. ME3 is mostly about making galactic alliances, and how we must address aliens and AI... but what I really care about is humanity's place in the galaxy (and without going extreme like Cerberus). At least they tried to give a nod to that here.

It's one of my favorite missions of the trilogy because of all the connections to the books, unique dialogue, challenging fights and Jack romance

[CrutchCricket]

To be fair, they had better things planned before. A lot of the Citadel stuff with Kai Leng, the VS, and Javik had to be re-written. Kasumi had a part in a bigger Citadel coup scheme, somewhat similar to the Hanar being indoctrinated in her mission... but it was more elaborate, where Shepard went to explore the wards, with a camera strapped on him. Emily Wong and Al-Jilani were in it as news reporters.. and Armistan Banes shows up as part of a Hanar/Cerberus indoctrination plot. Kasumi and Thane had different roles helping Shepard in all of this.

 

 

lol. It sounds like a mess the way I describe it though..

Meant to comment on this but I was on mobile and things were touchy.

 

It sounds interesting. I'd like to hear more details. Something like this would definitely have been awesome. It wouldn't excuse the problem lines or lines like them. But at least it'd give us more to dilute the effect.

 

Really, I'm probably one of the lucky ones as a Jack fan. Her reasons make the most sense.

Her reasons yes. Her circumstances no.

 

It is not at all plausible that Jack would officially be a teacher. I can appreciate where they took her character arc. But they could've done it with just a random group of "biotic strays" and hit the same beats with none of the incredulity.

 

I was simply bringing up that Kasumi does something about the war.

Who said she didn't? It doesn't erase or excuse her lines though. Again:

 

-She's the only one that flat out refuses to join, as opposed to providing literally any other worthy or semi-worthy excuse.

-She the only one that does not come across as a friend but as resentful and bitter.

 

These points stand unmitigated and cannot be reconciled or softened. Believe me I tried.

 

As for what she does before you see her, if you destroyed the graybox she tells you: piecing the lost data together so you can make use of it. And staying one step ahead of Bau no doubt.

[Vazgen]

Who said she didn't? It doesn't erase or excuse her lines though. Again:

-She's the only one that flat out refuses to join, as opposed to providing literally any other worthy or semi-worthy excuse.
-She the only one that does not come across as a friend but as resentful and bitter.

These points stand unmitigated and cannot be reconciled or softened. Believe me I tried.

As for what she does before you see her, if you destroyed the graybox she tells you: piecing the lost data together so you can make use of it. And staying one step ahead of Bau no doubt.

I thought the point you were making is that she doesn't join the war effort. She does, in her own way. If you referred to her not joining up on the Normandy, I think that ship is the last place any thief would want to be in Nothing to steal, heavy combat participation, military operation - all this doesn't sit well with thievery. The reason she's on that ship in ME2 is a huge sum of money that Cerberus pays her (as well as side benefits like information on Cerberus). That's how I view her character. I like her for that and I don't have problems with her writing in ME3 (except that weird fetish I just learned about)

[fraggle]

Kaidan just annoys the hell out of me... I have no idea why. I think it's his voice which irritates me. And the fact I'm supposed to care he gets beaten up at the start of Mass Effect 3. He accused me of working with Cerberus and then there was Horizon... I'm not going to care about what happens.

 

Tbh I always understood why what happened at Horizon happened. Ok, now you dislike Kaidan, but how would you feel if you meet someone you fought with, maybe even cared a great deal for and thought was dead just come up and say "Oh hey there, long time no see!". And yes, while the topic about Kaidan/Ash always going on about Cerberus can get on my nerves, they have a valid point. I do know that I am still the Shep I was before. but what about them? It's the first time they see and hear from Shep. What they've seen Cerberus do in ME1 justifies their reaction imo. I don't actually blame them.

The question is really, why DIDN'T Shep contact them to let them know he/she's still alive (if Shep had a good relationship with either of them), maybe even tell them about the agreement with TIM? The writers probably didn't let this happen because they wanted this conflict to happen, so it's not really the characters' fault

[God]

I'm with Crutch. Personally, I think it's rather unbelievable for Jack to be doing anything involved with Ascension. I think what could be a viable alternative is having Ascension station under attack, and running into Jack with a group of mercenaries on the station working to protect the inhabitants from Cerberus. That way, the 'biotic mentor' route for Jack is undercut while keeping that thread or plot alive.

[TheN7Penguin]

Tbh I always understood why what happened at Horizon happened. Ok, now you dislike Kaidan, but how would you feel if you meet someone you fought with, maybe even cared a great deal for and thought was dead just come up and say "Oh hey there, long time no see!". And yes, while the topic about Kaidan/Ash always going on about Cerberus can get on my nerves, they have a valid point. I do know that I am still the Shep I was before. but what about them? It's the first time they see and hear from Shep. What they've seen Cerberus do in ME1 justifies their reaction imo. I don't actually blame them.

The question is really, why DIDN'T Shep contact them to let them know he/she's still alive (if Shep had a good relationship with either of them), maybe even tell them about the agreement with TIM? The writers probably didn't let this happen because they wanted this conflict to happen, so it's not really the characters' fault

 

I understood why it happened, also, although I think given the fact the Collectors just kidnapped everyone and then you see your old CO who is attempting to stop the Collectors... Personally, I'd want a bit of payback. I do understand his point of view, I just extremely disagree, and if he had been more focused on fighting rather than thinking about Shepard's loyalty, he might have been able to destroy the AI on Mars without it injuring him. And although it is a little foresight, getting rid of him would have stopped the confrontation on the Citadel. It would be more beneficial to Shepard to get rid of him. And given that I play extremely renegade, it would not have been below my Shepard to shoot him rather than getting help for him.

[fraggle]

I understood why it happened, also, although I think given the fact the Collectors just kidnapped everyone and then you see your old CO who is attempting to stop the Collectors... Personally, I'd want a bit of payback. I do understand his point of view, I just extremely disagree, and if he had been more focused on fighting rather than thinking about Shepard's loyalty, he might have been able to destroy the AI on Mars without it injuring him. And although it is a little foresight, getting rid of him would have stopped the confrontation on the Citadel. It would be more beneficial to Shepard to get rid of him. And given that I play extremely renegade, it would not have been below my Shepard to shoot him rather than getting help for him.

 

Fair enough, I guess it always depends on how you yourself would see it in this certain situation. And yes of course if you'd gotten rid of him before, Citadel confrontation would not have happened, but tbh I really liked that showdown. Well, personal preferences and such eh

I'm always tending to Paragon, only go Renegade for experiments or if I don't like the person I'm talking to, usually TIM

[TheN7Penguin]

I liked the confrontation, too. Although it seems to end "right" if Ashley or Kaidan get shot. Meh. It's fine.

 

I'm the other way around. Renegade is what I do normally, Paragon is for experiments.

[CrutchCricket]

I would've countered this but we have gone far enough off-topic already. I'll be happy to discuss it further via PM or Kasumi's/Jack's thread

 

Just saw this. Always happy to go back to the Kasumi thread. Replied there.

[TheN7Penguin]

I, personally, think it works better in the story. It shows how far Shepard has to go to stop Cerberus and, by extension, the Reapers. I also think it tends to work well with my more renegade Shepards, as they're always focused on the job and are willing to sacrifice anything to succeed. I.E. shooting Mordin, destroying EDI and the Geth, etc.

[Vazgen]

I don't think destroying EDI is renegade. They're f*cking with you with the Red color. 

 

It's rather inconsistent. Other choices where you discourage her have Paragon options. Like when she first takes control of Eva's body. The Renegade is the one who likes it. Paragon is more cautious and questions AI there.

That's probably the only instance when being cautious about her is considered a Paragon option. Everything else is Renegade.

Destroy is Renegade in a sense that you complete the mission, no matter the cost.

Control can be both Paragon and Renegade, depending on Shepard.

Synthesis is BS

[Quarian Master Race]

I, personally, think it works better in the story. It shows how far Shepard has to go to stop Cerberus and, by extension, the Reapers. I also think it tends to work well with my more renegade Shepards, as they're always focused on the job and are willing to sacrifice anything to succeed. I.E. shooting Mordin, destroying EDI and the Geth, etc.

If you're going pure renegade you shouldn't have to shoot Mordin.

I generally end up about 75-80% Renegade and have no problem with having near everyone who can survive just fine (apart from both Wrex and Mordin, because they are mutually exclusive). Really, I see it as extremely lacking in the amoral pragmatism that (IMO) renegade is supposed to vaguely be representative of if you just off people left and right. Lower left persuasion usually provides more jerk-points than interrupts or lower right, anyway.

[TheN7Penguin]

I view Destroy as Renegade as in "no matter what the cost". Destroy is one of the two options open that the normal Shepards I play would take, refusal would be the other. I mean, Control is just "become what you fought to destroy" and Synthesis is just, "genetically screw over everyone so everyone becomes what you fought to destroy".

Actually.

I feel like I'm arguing against my own point and making it sound more paragon.

But in my mind it's renegade.

Perhaps because EDI and the Geth die.

Which is quite funny when you have Quarian and Geth peace.

Just to destroy the Geth anyway.

 

I usually end up with about 90%+ renegade. So I generally do shoot Mordin.