279 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

They all have paragon and renegade angles. Destroy is only Renegade to me when you can't do it productively and have poor war assets and crappy alliances.

 

In ME2, destruction was a Paragon decision. The "no matter the cost" angle is the one that thought using human victims was OK. While Paragon called it an abomination. And it still is. But ME3 is trying to screw with our heads now.

 

BTW, this goes back to what I said about Jack earlier. She's not a User. Controllers are the users. They're the true Renegades. Represented by TIM or Xen. Destroyers don't sink so low. They're the Jacks and the Han'Gerrels and Hacketts.

Controllers can be protectors, just like Jack. That's the Paragon aspect of that ending. 

Good point about Destroy. It is quite similar to Collector Base decision.

[TheN7Penguin]

It is a big deal if you refer to the "does this unit have a soul?" question and also the conversations with EDI, but I see your point.

 

Well, nuking the Krogan wasn't an option so I had to go for the, "most limiting" one. See, I think the Shepard I tend to play is more "destroy other controllers so she can be the only controller" type. And she views Reapers as a controller, given the ways they shape organic lives... Psycho-analysing renegade Shepard is odd.

[TheN7Penguin]

Yes. I think that's correct. It may be unproductive, but it's fun.

[TheN7Penguin]

ME1 and ME2 had the best renegade lines, for sure. But the renegade in ME3 has greater effect. I like Javik. I can relate to Javik. Not that my species died, or anything. Or at least, I don't think they did. The N7 Penguins shall live on forever.

[Quarian Master Race]

ME3 renegade lacks spacetroll lines. Way too srs. Glad Javik is there to pick up the slack

Still, its not as bad as the wussbag paragon always whining and brooding about literally everything.

[themikefest]

I would've preferred they added more renegade interrupts in ME3. There wasn't enough.

[TheN7Penguin]

There was a distinct lack of, "You're working too hard" and "How 'bout 'goodbye'" and "You talk too much" in ME3.

[TheN7Penguin]

Renegades have the best lines in the series.

[God]

However, I still shoot Legion in the face. But to me, that's Paragon. Only a psychopath would commit genocide for the sake of some Reaper coded robots.

 

I think your interpretation is rather skewed in an irrational and insecure premise.

 

I for one am not a psychopath, and believe that saving the Geth is the better option over the Quarians.

[God]

I don't understand the sentence. "skewed than in an irrational...."?

 

It's definitely psychopathic. Both in this setting and in the real world. You'd literally be put in a mental hospital for killing millions of people for some machines... Especially when the machines are Reaper based, and not even the Geth anymore. Everyone thinks they're somehow saving the Geth, but the Geth are dead no matter what you choose.

 

edit: OK, maybe not millions. I'm sure it's a large population number though.

 

Take out the 'than'.

 

I wouldn't be put in a mental hospital if I could justify it with logic and reason and explain my position.

 

To be frank, your assertion is patently false. You are making a broad generalization that is really only applicable in some very specific circumstances. As well, you're considering a non-organic lifeform to somehow be less than the organic lifeform. And you're not connecting how the Geth dying in Destroy connects it to how the decision to side with them is a false one. They're not connected events. You're going to have to actually demonstrate your logical model to show how you came to your conclusion.

 

For now, I'm tossing it because it's an illogical argument supporting an untrue premise: For starters, you're not even defining psychopathic, and you're certainly not applying it correctly to the people you're casting it onto, especially after they outright state (with knowledge of the terms meaning) that they are not a psychopath.

[TheN7Penguin]

If you would kill 17 million people for some washing machines, you'd be put in an asylum somewhere. The Geth are no different to talking washing machines. They're just tactically important washing machines.

[God]

If I believed in or subscribed to your reducto ad absurdum argument (I don't), I'd say you have a point.

 

Alas, the Geth are much, much different, and much, much more than 'talking washing machines'. 

 

Enough that they are in fact considered living, sentient, sapient beings, and given the light in issues, I think they're more important than 17 million people. Don't try and put yourself in an objective viewpoint that your definition and ideology is more valid, constructive, or correct than any other. 

 

I haven't pulled the racist card. I can do so very easily.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It's definitely psychopathic. Both in this setting and in the real world. You'd literally be put in a mental hospital for killing millions of people for some machines... Especially when the machines are Reaper based, and not even the Geth anymore. Everyone thinks they're somehow saving the Geth, but the Geth are dead no matter what you choose.

 

And the case has been made for geth qualifying as a people. So the person in question may have simply been forced to take a side between two groups of (in their eyes) people. Nothing psycho about that, just an unfortunate situation.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Even when I consider that, the Geth are still dead. They are a completely screwed lifeform whether you side with Quarians or against them. You can thank the Reapers for their fate.

 

And when I say Geth, I mean Legion's own standards. "You have not met Geth before"....  "geth build their own future". 

 

If they were organics, they'd be the equivalent of an uplifted race, modified to Frankestein levels with reaper tech.

 

The Reapers meet the same standards as geth for being considered people, though. Not liking them is not really reason enough to make an exception (not a rational one, at any rate). The geth wanted the upgrade in part because they found them desirable from experience, and also to avoid an unceremonious death of their entire race. What's the issue with giving them a chance?

[Quarian Master Race]

Enough that they are in fact considered living, sentient, sapient beings

are they really though? The first quantifier is too subjective, so I won't argue there, nor will I argue their sapience (at least if meeting the prerequisite of having a sufficient mass of programs to form a gestalt intellect comparable to or greater than a human), but what physical qualia are geth shown to be capable of experiencing subjectively? 

Legion in fact refutes or explains in different terms Shepard's multiple attempts at framing geth reactions in terms of sentience ("we do not experience fear as you do", for example). Sentience is also a major if not the primary factor in social culture, of which the geth are referred to in universe as lacking a concept of.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Reapers meet the same standards as geth for being considered people, though. Not liking them is not really reason enough to make an exception (not a rational one, at any rate). The geth wanted the upgrade in part because they found them desirable from experience, and also to avoid an unceremonious death of their entire race. What's the issue with giving them a chance?

 

There is that issue about whether or not the Reapers have any free will.