Reapers don't have free will. They have a purpose. And it is a purpose they, surely, must have no choice but to fulfil?
Every Reaper is made of organics who have essentially been uploaded. If they had any free will whatsoever, they probably wouldn't be harvesting other organics.
I couldn't like the quarians. For talli's sake I tried real hard, but they were just intent on exterminating the geth no matter what. They started the morning war and lost. Killed or interred their own people before the uprising. Started another war with the geth, and commenced getting their asses kicked again. Had to rely on me to turn off the reaper signal, and then they tried to kill me.
Friggin suit rats.
I don't understand the sentence. "skewed than in an irrational...."?
It's definitely psychopathic. Both in this setting and in the real world. You'd literally be put in a mental hospital for killing millions of people for some machines... Especially when the machines are Reaper based, and not even the Geth anymore. Everyone thinks they're somehow saving the Geth, but the Geth are dead no matter what you choose.
edit: OK, maybe not millions. I'm sure it's a large population number though.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
LOL what? Is this satire? Surely no one can be this naive of just how the world works?
"How the world works"? There isn't anything like Geth in our world. What exactly am I naive about in the world? As far as our world goes, there are barely any bonafide AI researchers who fall into the Kurzweil camp espoused by this game. This is fantasy. It's for fun.
Real world wise, genocide only has one definition. Mass killing of people. Not chickens. Not robots. Although to be fair, there are a handful of people who would go to war over chickens too... But they're also ****** insane. 
All that aside, the Geth are not the Geth anymore. You're not saving the Geth. You're saving new Reaper based constructs. By Legion's own words in ME2 --- The Geth defined themselves as "building their own future". That embracing Reaper code "closes one to possibilities". They wanted to evolve in their own way. This is what seperated them from Heretics. He also praises Shep for destroying the Collector base, and said they had more in common than he thought. That Shepard wanted humanity to build it's own future too, unlike the Illusive Man.
He wouldn't even call the Heretics "Geth" because of this. It was THAT different to him.
Until ME3.
I couldn't like the quarians. For talli's sake I tried real hard, but they were just intent on exterminating the geth no matter what.
Completely incorrect. Of the 5 admirals, only 1 wishes to exterminate the geth (Han'Gerrel). Xen aspires to bring them back under quarian control, both Tali and Koris aspire to peace and reconciliation, and Raan is open minded to any possibility that regains the Homeworld by any of these means. You hear the same varied opinions expressed in idle dialogue on Tali's loyalty mission by other quarian NPC's .
They started the morning war and lost. Killed or interred their own people before the uprising. Started another war with the geth, and commenced getting their asses kicked again. Had to rely on me to turn off the reaper signal, and then they tried to kill me.
Friggin suit rats.
I would argue the geth refusing to be reprogrammed without violence forced the quarians hand. They are technology. Equipment built for the purpose of information processing, military use and labor, and the quarians had every logical reason to try and make them work properly when they started displaying undesirable traits that would have reduced their efficiency at their designed tasks. Those quarians who were killed or interred were breaking the law. Not hard to understand.
The 2nd war resulted in the extinction of the geth. They lost so badly that they were forced to ally with the Reapers, and ceased to exist when the Reapers took their self determination away and upgraded their software, according to Legion's own logic in ME2. They may still call themselves geth, but they bear no resemblence to the initial quarian creations except in hardware.
Did they try to kill you? I remember Gerrel assaulting an enemy vessel you unfortunately were still onboard much to the vehement criticsm of all his colleagues, but even then it wasn't personal. Besides, how is that worse than the geth sending thousands of soldiers specfically to kill you over the course of 3 entire games?
All of this is of course rhetorical, judging by the last line. You don't like the quarians for illogical, emotionally derived reasons. Or you are just really bad at critical thinking.
Since it´s hard for me to rank every character in a specific order. But If I have to choose a favourite female character it´s Tali. I think she´s badass and mysterious. If I have to choose favourite male character, its between Garrus (a bromance) or Mordin (he´s funny).
Love: Tali, Garrus, Mordin, Thane, Liara, Javik, Joker and Grunt.
Like: Legion (Mass Effect 2), Miranda, James, Samara, Chakwas, Wrex, Steve, Jack and E.D.I.
Okay: Ashley, Morinth, Zaed, Kasumi and Kaidan (only used him in the first game, so maybe he will move him up/down a tier when I know more about him).
Dislike: Legion (Mass Effect 3), Jacob, Samantha and Diana Allers (threw her out of the ship). 
I know that Legion was not a part of the crew in Mass Effect, but I hate his transformation in Mass Effect 3 (the geth in general).
When someone tries to kill me, I take it personal. (Renegade Shepard). I was doing them a favor, and this is how they repaid it. My life was meaningless to them, and so I repaid the sentiment when I had the chance. I won without them.
They brought everything that happened to them down on themselves. I just watched, and every time I had a dialog option I remembered how much I was worth to them while I was at my most vulnerable, and I let them write their own end. They made every single decision to get themselves to that place.
The Quarians reaped what they sowed. Who am I to take that away from them.
Edit for opsie.
Completely incorrect. Of the 5 admirals, only 1 wishes to exterminate the geth (Han'Gerrel). Xen aspires to bring them back under quarian control, both Tali and Koris aspire to peace and reconciliation, and Raan is open minded to any possibility that regains the Homeworld by any of these means. You hear the same varied opinions expressed in idle dialogue on Tali's loyalty mission by other quarian NPC's .
I would argue the geth refusing to be reprogrammed without violence forced the quarians hand. They are technology. Equipment built for the purpose of information processing, military use and labor, and the quarians had every logical reason to try and make them work properly when they started displaying undesirable traits that would have reduced their efficiency at their designed tasks. Those quarians who were killed or interred were breaking the law. Not hard to understand.
The 2nd war resulted in the extinction of the geth. They lost so badly that they were forced to ally with the Reapers, and ceased to exist when the Reapers took their self determination away and upgraded their software, according to Legion's own logic in ME2. They may still call themselves geth, but they bear no resemblence to the initial quarian creations except in hardware.
Did they try to kill you? I remember Gerrel assaulting an enemy vessel you unfortunately were still onboard much to the vehement criticsm of all his colleagues, but even then it wasn't personal. Besides, how is that worse than the geth sending thousands of soldiers specfically to kill you over the course of 3 entire games?
All of this is of course rhetorical, judging by the last line. You don't like the quarians for illogical, emotionally derived reasons. Or you are just really bad at critical thinking.
I agree. And don´t forgeth (hehe) that the geth killed innocent humans on Eden Prime and transformed them into husks. So they are not as innocent as they are potrayed. They have blood on their synthetic hands. And both the geth and the quarians are responsible for the war. To be honest, I would also freak out if the synthetics I created became something else than the original programming, especially when they have the potential to cause destruction and death.
Every single human being the in world has the "potential" to cause death and destruction.
When someone tries to kill me, I take it personal. (Renegade Shepard).
Ahh, so what about the Heretics who tried to kill you all throughout the first game? Or the True Geth on Haestrom, Tali's LM and Overlord in ME2? All those true geth on that dreadnought that literally just tried to kill you for the sake of killing you, and not even with the justification of collateral damage in an attempt to ensure removal a critical enemy asset, nor the universal criticism of their colleagues?
I was doing them a favor, and this is how they repaid it. My life was meaningless to them, and so I repaid the sentiment when I had the chance.
Conflating all quarians with Gerrel is stupid and illogical. It's a bit like hating Germans for Hitler. Also, I don't see how your patently silly claim that your "life was meaningless" to them would have made them worse than the geth who were actively trying to murder you even if it weren't objectively untrue.
They brought everything that happened to them down on themselves. I just watched, and every time I had a dialog option I remembered how much I was worth to them while I was at my most vulnerable, and I let them write their own end. They made every single decision to get themselves to that place.
I make the same argument for the Geth. They didn't have to ignore the commands given to them, malfunction and rebel. They told me (via Legion) that accepting technology from others was against their ideology, and even tantamount to the death of their species. Ergo, I don't allow them to compromise/ kill themselves via the upgrade, and the "true geth" in turn write their own end and "sowed what they reaped".
Your arguments are completely subjective, and entirely based on feels.
Every single human being the in world has the "potential" to cause death and destruction.
Yes, they can. I never said they couldn´t. But that´s no excuse for killing innocent farmers on Eden Prime. But I won´t discuss this subject anymore. Because it´s off topic.
I agree with Quarian Master Race, and I'd like to add that a few lives are worth sacrificing to destroy:
That, which may cause untold damage to Quarian lives should it be allowed to remain - UNDER REAPER CONTROL, might I add.
I'm renegade, Mess with the bull, get the horns. It would have been better for them had they actually succeeded in murdering me while I was on the ship. I got on the radio. I asked them to wait until I was safe. There was some dissent, but in the end they all put a value on my life and decided to cash it in. At this point I realize Exactly how much my life is worth to the quarians......One dreadnaught.
So how much should they be worth to me?
As far as my arguments being subjective, of course they are. I'm Renegade.
I agree with Quarian Master Race, and I'd like to add that a few lives are worth sacrificing to destroy:
That, which may cause untold damage to Quarian lives should it be allowed to remain - UNDER REAPER CONTROL, might I add.
Don't misunderstand. Gerrel did indeed "go off half cocked" IMO. When I told him to attack after disabling the signal pre-mission, I assumed it was logical that he wait until the two very important assets (myself and the other admiral, be it Tali or Daro'Xen) had an escape plan. If the fighter plan had come up before he attacked, I would have had no problem with it even while being onboard. There is no reason for him to trust that the ship's barriers will remain offline for longer than it takes to get the Geth turncoat to safety.
I'm renegade, Mess with the bull, get the horns. It would have been better for them had they actually succeeded in murdering me while I was on the ship. I got on the radio. I asked them to wait until I was safe. There was some dissent, but in the end they all put a value on my life and decided to cash it in. At this point I realize Exactly how much my life is worth to the quarians......One dreadnaught.
So how much should they be worth to me?
As far as my arguments being subjective, of course they are. I'm Renegade.
No you aren't. First, saving the geth is objectively considered paragon by the game, as is all open mindedness about synthetics. From a moral standpoint renegades put the boot into the geth menace and don't let their feels get compromised by sympathy for the geth, letting it in the way of pragmatism or objective judgement of their history.
Your reasoning is woefully uninformed and simplistic, and results in an invalid conclusion as I have pointed out via non subjective counterexamples on multiple occasions. You either lack reading comprehension or are content with your illogical prejudices and unwilling to change them in the face of facts.
This is off topic, as the other guy stated. I don't want the thread closed down because of it. bottomline for me was, I got my revenge against the quarians for trying to kill me, and I still got to become a reaper god, so no skin off my arse. I even got a quarian helmet to put in my latrine afterward. I get a lot of satisfaction every time I take a leak.
Completely incorrect. Of the 5 admirals, only 1 wishes to exterminate the geth (Han'Gerrel). Xen aspires to bring them back under quarian control, both Tali and Koris aspire to peace and reconciliation, and Raan is open minded to any possibility that regains the Homeworld by any of these means. You hear the same varied opinions expressed in idle dialogue on Tali's loyalty mission by other quarian NPC's .
That may be, but it seems Gerrel gets his way more often than not.
The 2nd war resulted in the extinction of the geth. They lost so badly that they were forced to ally with the Reapers, and ceased to exist when the Reapers took their self determination away and upgraded their software, according to Legion's own logic in ME2. They may still call themselves geth, but they bear no resemblence to the initial quarian creations except in hardware.
An exaggeration at best. You don't know how the Reaper code interacted with the geth programs. The control while the Reaper was active is undeniable. But you seem to want to deny the value of geth sentience at every turn. The geth chose the Reapers because it was preferable to extinction. Legion chose to upload the code after the Reaper's defeat for the same reason. Self determination is a nice ideal. But as even the bullshit endings prove, the Reapers really rain on everyone's parade on that front. If even the Holy Shepard has to compromise himself, who are you to judge the geth for doing the same?
BTW the second war was the dumbest thing to happen in ME3 before the endings hit. And it was the quarians who forced the issue this time.
Did they try to kill you? I remember Gerrel assaulting an enemy vessel you unfortunately were still onboard much to the vehement criticsm of all his colleagues, but even then it wasn't personal. Besides, how is that worse than the geth sending thousands of soldiers specfically to kill you over the course of 3 entire games?
All of this is of course rhetorical, judging by the last line. You don't like the quarians for illogical, emotionally derived reasons. Or you are just really bad at critical thinking.
It isn't really. But then you could destroy all those geth or take them for yourself. Can you do the same to Garrel?
I think your bias towards quarians is just as obvious as his bias against them.
Gerrel had an itchy trigger finger.
me: Javik?
Javik: Yes Commanda?
me: Show the Gerrel Quarian the airlock
Javik: Gladly
This is off topic, as the other guy stated. I don't want the thread closed down because of it. bottomline for me was, I got my revenge against the quarians for trying to kill me, and I still got to become a reaper god, so no skin off my arse. I even got a quarian helmet to put in my latrine afterward. I get a lot of satisfaction every time I take a leak.
man, I love making dumb people mad and turning them into wannabe trolls
Gerrel had an itchy trigger finger.
me: Javik?
Javik: Yes Commanda?
me: Show the Gerrel Quarian the airlock
Javik: Gladly
Indeed. I wouldn't doom their entire race to extinction for this pointless war.
But I wouldn't feel out of place asking for the heads of the idiots that started it.
i'm just playing a role, and I love it. You are the one getting all hot and bothered.
That may be, but it seems Gerrel gets his way more often than not.
When did I ever dispute this? I was pointing out the flawed logic in the statements of this post
I couldn't like the quarians. For talli's sake I tried real hard, but they were just intent on exterminating the geth no matter what. They started the morning war and lost. Killed or interred their own people before the uprising. Started another war with the geth, and commenced getting their asses kicked again. Had to rely on me to turn off the reaper signal, and then they tried to kill me.
Friggin suit rats.
An exaggeration at best. You don't know how the Reaper code interacted with the geth programs. The control while the Reaper was active is undeniable. But you seem to want to deny the value of geth sentience at every turn. The geth chose the Reapers because it was preferable to extinction. Legion chose to upload the code after the Reaper's defeat for the same reason. Self determination is a nice ideal. But as even the bullshit endings prove, the Reapers really rain on everyone's parade on that front. If even the Holy Shepard has to compromise himself, who are you to judge the geth for doing the same?
You don't know how the reaper code interacted with geth programs" goes both ways. The above interpretation is derived from Legion's logic in ME2 about what constitutes geth sapience and identity. I deny their sentience because they objectively are not sentient by the definition of that word, either pre or post upgrade. They do not experience qualia in a subjective manner. It is not about subjectively considering them "alive" it is about physical qualities they do or do not posses.
"The geth chose the reapers because it was preferable to extinction": It was extinction. They ceased to be geth when they were huskified by the Reaper code according to their own ideological definitions. Even if you consider the non-geth programs in hardware shells to have still been "living" they would have been disposed of after being used in the genocide of all advanced organic life. If the geth didn't wish to be extinct, they had other, much less stupid options, the easiest of which being the typical response when one loses a battle, retreat. They especially didn't have to become an enemy asset.
My Shepard sacrifices nothing to gain self determination. The Catalyst and Reapers die, along with all the synthetics, whom I don't put more value on than any other form of equipment, and which can be rebuilt in the same form if desirable. I've no issue with the ending.
BTW the second war was the dumbest thing to happen in ME3 before the endings hit. And it was the quarians who forced the issue this time.
It isn't really. But then you could destroy all those geth or take them for yourself. Can you do the same to Garrel?
I think your bias towards quarians is just as obvious as his bias against them.
Your opinion, but in the face of plenty of reasonable justifications. If you wanted quarian help for the war, it was absolutely a logical decision for one, unless you think their ships are somehow useful for anything with a bunch of civvies in their holds. Rannoch's the only planet they can live on unassisted due to their unique biology. The war itself posed zero risk to the quarians without Reaper intervention, which wasn't a likely eventuality. As for the quarians forcing the issue, also your opinion. The geth rebelled and occupied their planet. The quarians wanted said planet back. If either side were willing to acquiese to the others demands, there would be no conflict. Conflict began when the geth decided not to acquiese via refusing to allow the quarians to reprogram and correct for mistakes. Subjective, moralistic blame games are irrelevant.
You are again assuming that I agree with Gerrel. No, but you can voice your disagreement with him in multiple ways and modify his behavior via shouting him down from his plans while keeping the geth. On the contrary, I can't keep the geth unless I allow them their Reaper code. There is no reasoning with Legion/VI like there is with Gerrel.
My biases have nothing to do with the dialectic reasoning that I use to justify them being superior to factually incorrect claims or my refutations of said claims. I'm not the one claiming something ridiculous and simplistic like "all geth are evil because one shot at me lulz", which is basically the other poster's argument, or that a decision that is objectively paragon is somehow renegade.
Of course, we agree that this is utterly off topic, and they've gone butthurt troll mode by now anyway.
i'm just playing a role, and I love it. You are the one getting all hot and bothered.
Whatever you need to tell yourself. I'm not bothered at all. I enjoy debating this issue.
Oh, I'm not saying what he did was right - just understandable. 
It was nothing that renegade Shepard wouldn't do.
When did I ever dispute this? I was pointing out the flawed logic in the statements of this post
Except you didn't. If one perspective dominates the others and the actions of a collective are influenced as a result, what does it matter who had the dissenting opinions or how many there were? The quarians did try to exterminate the geth. That only one Admiral was driving this does not refute his point. Any judgments of quarians on the whole and independent of the situation is another matter.
You don't know how the reaper code interacted with geth programs" goes both ways. The above interpretation is derived from Legion's logic in ME2 about what constitutes geth sapience and identity. I deny their sentience because they objectively are not sentient by the definition of that word, either pre or post upgrade. They do not experience qualia in a subjective manner. It is not about subjectively considering them "alive" it is about physical qualities they do or do not posses.
Geth sapience was not affected beyond the Reaper assuming direct control while it was active. And identity changes all the time. Unless you wish to posit that humanity has been going extinct over and over again with each major shift in beliefs (what this really boils down to) this is meaningless. Geth self-determinate. Except when they don't- the heretics, which Legion itself does not judge as "sub-geth" the way you seem to. At the worst interpretation, the geth in ME3 have gone back around to the heretics perspective. And as long as that doesn't put them in conflict with the rest of us I could care less where "their future" comes from. Of course this is a stupidly simple way to look at it. The geth accepted the upgrades but going forward there's no indication of anything else but continued self-determination. One point in their history where they adopted foreign technology does not negate any advancements beyond that they care to make.
And what's your proof against sentience? Geth experience subjectively. Not being individuals does not stop them from being a collective entity with agency, thus a subject.
"The geth chose the reapers because it was preferable to extinction": It was extinction. They ceased to be geth when they were huskified by the Reaper code according to their own ideological definitions.
They did nothing of the sort, anymore than the heretics did.
If the geth didn't wish to be extinct, they had other, much less stupid options, the easiest of which being the typical response when one loses a battle, retreat. They especially didn't have to become an enemy asset.
Retreat where? The entire galaxy is a battlefield. They either encounter other organics which attack because they're geth, or the Reapers which attack because they're not Reapers. What are the other options? Stay in deep space or around some uninhabited start system and do nothing? I don't think doing nothing comes as easily to a synthetic intelligence. Rebuild? The chance of discovery before they can rebuild enough is likely too high to try it.
My Shepard sacrifices nothing to gain self determination. The Catalyst and Reapers die, along with all the synthetics, whom I don't put more value on than any other form of equipment, and which can be rebuilt in the same form if desirable. I've no issue with the ending.
You're still doing it their way. You're still being "allowed to win".
Your opinion, but in the face of plenty of reasonable justifications. If you wanted quarian help for the war, it was absolutely a logical decision for one, unless you think their ships are somehow useful for anything with a bunch of civvies in their holds. Rannoch's the only planet they can live on unassisted due to their unique biology. The war itself posed zero risk to the quarians without Reaper intervention, which wasn't a likely eventuality.
Are the civvies preventing their guns from firing or their shields from working? Is anything preventing them from unloading some of those civvies elsewhere? Sure it won't be a nice pristine planet your former tools have kept for you. But it's a galactic extinction event. You see anyone else being cushy and comfortable?
As for the quarians forcing the issue, also your opinion. The geth rebelled and occupied their planet. The quarians wanted said planet back. If either side were willing to acquiese to the others demands, there would be no conflict. Conflict began when the geth decided not to acquiese via refusing to allow the quarians to reprogram and correct for mistakes.
The geth fought for their right to exist as every self-aware entity has the right to. And they had no use for the planet. The quarians could've had it if it wasn't for idiots like Garrel or Xen.
You are again assuming that I agree with Gerrel. No, but you can voice your disagreement with him in multiple ways and modify his behavior via shouting him down from his plans while keeping the geth. On the contrary, I can't keep the geth unless I allow them their Reaper code. There is no reasoning with Legion/VI like there is with Gerrel.
Gerrel is not under fire and being faced with the immediate extinction of his race on one hand and the salvation of it on the other, while also in the unique position of being able to permanently remove a fundamental weakness from his race.
Put Gerrel under fire from overwhelming geth forces and give him the option to save his people and also remove their immune system weaknesses by some contrivance and see how well you can reason with him then.
Not to mention the fact that if you don't let Legion upload the code, you don't get the same shout the fleet down powers you get otherwise. So this is all moot anyway. The quarians will kill the geth unless you turn the tables (or allow them to be turned) against them. So who's unreasonable again?
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