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[God]

So I'm just going to be completely pedantic here, but this statement makes no sense. Plato was completely opposed to democracy; he regarded it as one of the worst forms of governance possible, just ahead of tyranny. This may have had something to do with the fact that Plato was related to two of the Thirty Tyrants (the puppet leaders who took power in Athens after the Athenians were defeated by Sparta in the Pelopponnesian War); Charmides was his uncle, and Critias was his cousin.

 

Not necessarily. Plato acknowledged that a democracy among aristocrats (the trained philosopher-kings who knew how to rule) was a desirable, if somewhat unattainable ideology.

 

Essentially, it means that democracy is only for those who know how to rule, and are informed and wise. Take the aristocrats and give them democracy with their ruling.

[CrutchCricket]

Not necessarily. Plato acknowledged that a democracy among aristocrats (the trained philosopher-kings who knew how to rule) was a desirable, if somewhat unattainable ideology.

 

Essentially, it means that democracy is only for those who know how to rule, and are informed and wise. Take the aristocrats and give them democracy with their ruling.

Out of curiosity, did you ever read Starship Troopers, and if so what are your thoughts on the political system presented in that book? The movie of course only scrapes the surface.

[Jorji Costava]

Not necessarily. Plato acknowledged that a democracy among aristocrats (the trained philosopher-kings who knew how to rule) was a desirable, if somewhat unattainable ideology.

 

Essentially, it means that democracy is only for those who know how to rule, and are informed and wise. Take the aristocrats and give them democracy with their ruling.

 

First of all, this sounds like a substantial misuse of the term "democracy," given that philosopher kings are not elected officials. An 'aristocratic democracy' is a contradiction in terms.

 

Even if what you mean is something weaker, like "The philosopher kings make decisions by voting amongst themselves," it's still not clear that what you're saying is true. Maybe I'm just missing something, but I've taught The Republic a number of times and I recall little to no discussion of the mechanisms by which the philosopher kings actually go about making decisions (Plato placed a high value on unity, and it's possible that he thought philosopher kings would just never disagree about important stuff, seeing as they are all guided by their knowledge of the Good). Almost all of the discussion of the philosopher king in The Republic centers on what kind of person he or she would be, and what institutional arrangements are necessary to train and educate such people.

 

Anyways, tangent over.

[Aimi]

Not necessarily. Plato acknowledged that a democracy among aristocrats (the trained philosopher-kings who knew how to rule) was a desirable, if somewhat unattainable ideology.
 
Essentially, it means that democracy is only for those who know how to rule, and are informed and wise. Take the aristocrats and give them democracy with their ruling.

Which is not democracy, and which is an accurate description of the decidedly non-democratic governments run by the likes of the Thirty of Athenai (and the Four Hundred before them), the Eighty of Korinthos, and the gerouseia of Sparte.

Most academics will usually refer to democracy in Athenai, when it existed (i.e. not under the Thirty, the Four Hundred, the Peisistratoi, or Demetrios Phalereus), as being specifically 'Athenian democracy'; it wasn't democratic by most modern standards in disenfranchising women, slaves, and certain other classes of city residents, but the entire male citizen body theoretically had equal, legally-protected rights and input into state policy. No one refers to Korinthos, Sparte, Argos, or Athenai-under-the-oligarchs as "democratic", because a tiny tiny group of people ran the show in each of those places. This is the same with ancient writers: they drew a clear delineation between democratic and non-democratic states.

In the part of the Politeia you're referring to, Platon discussed five regimes: demokratia, oligarchia, timokratia, tyrannia, and aristokratia. His ideal was the aristokratia: rule by knowledgeable philosopher-kings. Timokratia was an aristokratia governed by warlike men, which Platon thought was inferior because war is bad and a good god-king can solve all his problems without war. Oligarchia was blatant rule of the rich over the poor; for most contemporary Greeks, "aristokratia" and "timokratia" were nonsense and the practical reality of both of those forms of government was oligarchia. Platon certainly did not describe aristokratia as a form of demokratia; that would have made nonsense of his five regimes. Instead, demokratia was what happened when oligarchia failed, and oligarchia was what happened when timokratia failed, and timokratia was what happened when aristokratia failed.

Anyway, Platon's political dream of aristokratia was castle-building in the air.

[God]

Might have been in some PolySci course then. I taken nearly 40 over the last 3 years. I suppose they have a tendency to put words in different places. More than one of the classes I took was usually by a guy who loved to put his opinions forward. And I believe I am directly remembering from his class, if memory serves me right.

 

General point, I'm not big on giving the common man a say on the affairs of the country or the world. And for the most part, theory isn't my cup of tea in politics as much as looking at the actual practical applications of power in various regions, states, and organizations. 

 

To get the best definition (not exact of course) of what I'm going for, take a look at the European Council. To a lesser extent, look at the European Commission.

[Beregond5]

Please note that I don't have Kasumi in my games and the rank doesn't mean I hate any of them. With that in mind:


1. Kaidan. I love how his character develops throughout all three games. He has your back in 1, loses his faith in you in 2, only to recover it in 3 if you so choose with your actions. And I do connect with him the most with his down-to-earth attitude and calm temperament, role-playing wise.

2. Garrus. Though I do love how you need to work to regain Kaidan's trust, the fact that someone sticks by you no matter what is just as important. There can be no Shepard without a Vakarian all the way.

3. Tali - Same reason with Garrus, really. She trusts you, no matter what happens. If your Garrus is your compadre, she's your - tough with a shotgun - little sister.

 

And then, the ranking goes something like:

4. Mordin

 

5. Samara

 

6. Miranda

 

7. Jack

 

8. Thane

 

9. Liara

 

10. Legion

 

11. Grunt

 

12. Jacob

13. Ashley

14. Zaeed

 

[Lady Sif]

1. Miranda

2. Javik

3. Jack

4. Kaidan

5. Garrus

6. Liara

7. Grunt

8. Ashley

9. Thane

10. Wrex

11. Tali

12. Mordin

13. Legion

14. Zaeed 

15. Kasumi

16. Samara

17. James

18. Jacob

[SimJom]

Uber-love:

Garrus Vakarian : the ultimate bromance.

Urdnot Wrex : funny, well developed and totally badass. Also, another bro.

Javik : hands down the best ME3 character. He's a supremacist with very questionable morals, yes, but he also has a philosophy and he's a tragic figure. And more importantly, he's a complete ******* and one of the funniest character of the whole trilogy. His "They used to eat flies" response to Liara is one of my favorite line. 

 

Love :

Urdnot Grunt : I tried not to like this guy, as I thought he would be a rehash of Wrex. I utterly failed.

Miranda Lawson : There's a superficial side to my love (gorgeous character model, unbelievably sexy voice), of course, but really, it's the personality that does it : badass and confident ice-queen with a sensible side and an interesting background. I like to take Miranda pretty much everywhere, and she's usually my LI.

Mordin Solus : What's not to love about Mordin? Pragmatic scientific genius that can sing? Yes, please. Not to mention he's really funny, interesting and always questioning himself. I really liked how he finally changes his views on the genophage in the third game, although he had to sacrifice himself ;_;

Legion : my love for Legion has no bounds, and everytime I hear "Shepard-Commander", my heart melts. He's the sole reason the "destroy" ending is such a moral dilemma. I still choose it, but damn it, it's hard and it takes a lot of headcanon.

 

 

Like :

Samara : I really like the intimate relationship she and my Shep have. I just find her fascinating, and there's something about her eyes...

Samantha Traynor : let's just say she succeeds everywhere Kelly fails. I would have liked to date her, but I unfortunately play a male Shep.

Jack : I finally gave her a chance in my last playthrough, and it turns out she's a really good and well developed character.

Ashley Williams : I finally did a whole playthrough of the trilogy with her as my LI, and yeah, her role in ME3 is really not as good as in ME1. Too bad.

 

 

Don't like/Boring:

EDI : As much as I find Legion fascinating, I really don't care about the sexbot. I ignore her completely in ME2, as she gets on my nerves.

Jacob Taylor : Jacob is alright ; just not very interesting.

Kaiden : I heard he gets better in ME3. I wouldn't know.

Joker : I have a love/hate relationship with Joker. I find him funny, but he tends to get on my nerves, and I have absolutely no incentive to go talk to him directly. Also, I will never forgive the way he disrespects Legion in his loyalty mission. NEVER.

James Vega : No need to explain, but I have to say he's growing on me.

Thane Krios : he *should* be interesting, but his long speeches and his voice bore me.

Talizorah Vas Normandy : yeah, no love for Tali here. I never cared so much about the Quarians. You have created conscious and intelligent beings : that's all you need to know to not treat them like disposable tools. Bunch of assholes.

Liara T’soni : I feel bad placing her there. She's an interesting character and I like her, but her personality is, unfortunately, really boring.

 

REALLY Boring:

Kasumi Goto : bland and uninteresting character. Could do without.

Steve Cortez : why is he on my crew?

Kelly Chambers : didn't talk to her at all in my last playthrough of ME2. That's how much I didn't care.

 

Hate:
Zaeed Massani : no redeeming qualities whatsoever -- I hate everything about this guy. Even the accent.

[Arcian]

Emperor of the Known Galaxy Tier:

Javik

 

Five Man Band Tier: 

 

Garrus

Wrex

Legion

Mordin

Thane

 

Brogan Tier:

 

Grunt

 

Neat Tier

 

Kaidan

Zaeed

James

EDI

Miranda

Jack

 

Literally Don't Care Tier:

 

Samara

Tali

Kasumi

 

Racist Scum Tier:

 

Ashley

 

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in the same room with Hitler, bin Laden and this character I would shoot this character twice Tier:

 

Liara

 

Who? Tier

 

Jacob

[Daemul]

Y'all talking about other Bioware franchise and I'm sitting here feeling left out because Mass Effect is the only Bioware franchise I've ever played, and it will probably stay that way tbh, none of the settings for their other franchises interest me, especially Dragon Age. F**k high fantasy settings, they're so overused and boring as hell. 

[dreamgazer]

I dunno, I like some characters and don't really care about others. They all bow to the splendor of Kelly Chambers, though.

[TheJester000]

1. Garrus

2. Grunt

3. Thane

4. Jack

5. Mordin

6. Tali

7. Javik

8. Zaeed

9. Kaidan

10. Wrex

11. EDI

12. Samara

13. Liara

14. Legion

15. Jacob

16. Morinth

17. Kasumi

18. James

19. Miranda

20. Ashley

[CrutchCricket]

She's not a bad character, but I can't come up with a Shepard who wants an amateur shrink around.

 

"I don't need you analyzing me, Yeoman." That's about all I have to say to her.

Kelly seems like more of a counselor than a shrink. Shepard doesn't need her but the crew might.

[CrutchCricket]

Is that the neutral option though?

[Han Shot First]

I didn't hate any of the Mass Effect squadmates.

 

I think the only companion character in a recent Bioware game that I had a strong dislike for was Merrill. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm on my final run through the game.

 

1. Garrus

2. EDI

3. Jack

4. Zaeed

5. Wrex

5.5 Thane

6. Ashley

6.5. Aria

7. James

8. Liara

9. Tali

10. Jacob

11. Samara

12. Grunt

13. Miranda

14. Javik

15. Legion

16. Kaidan

17. Kasumi

18. Mordin

 

I'm taking EDI on every mission this time just because I've never done it.

[God]

I didn't hate any of the Mass Effect squadmates.

 

I think the only companion character in a recent Bioware game that I had a strong dislike for was Merrill. 

 

Oddly enough, I tend to dislike most of the Mass Effect squadmates. And characters.

 

My favorites are the ones most people tend to dislike or hate. 

 

In Dragon Age, I dislike almost everyone from DA:2, with the exception of Varric, Bethany, and Aveline. I despise Sera and Merrill.

[Gago]

Well this is hard. Hmmm...

 

LI is always Liara, I like everything about her and I absolutely love her change. I liked her as a nice and shy researcher but now I love her as a dark-ish and sarcastic Shadow Broker.

 

Now for the buddies, after the first three it is quite flexible and vibrant list which changes regularly

 

1. Garrus

2. Wrex

3. Tali

4. Mordin

5. Jack

6. Thane

7. Javik

8. Grunt

9. EDI

10. Kasumi

11. Miranda

12. Ashley

13. Legion

14. Samara

15. James

16. Zaeed

17. Kaidan

18. Jacob

 

I have never sided with Morinth and I didn't include temporarily companions.

[Silvair]

1) Tali.  Putting aside how adorable she is, in ME1 I really wished she was a LI because Liara (airheaded tentacle head who always seems like she shot back all the "brownies") and Ashley (token racist, nothing more) just did not appeal to me.  Couple that with the fact that Tali could literally just win the game FOR you if you spec her to be the cutest lil JUGGERNAUT ever (So much shields....running up while hacking and blowing people away with op shotguns holy crap), then in 2 and 3 she just got even more awesome, though both her attempts at leading were tragic.

 

Though its irritating how I only get her back halfway through both ME2  and ME3.

 

2) Garrus.  At first I was "meh" but I warmed up to him in ME2, and to me, Garrus and Tali are the "canon" squadmates for Mass Effect.  In ME1 I hooked him up with a RAILGUN, and he annihilated (high explosive rounds yay), though in combat i fully admit he outright sucks in ME2 and ME3.  Still though, he's probably the most "down to earth" squadmate, and I liked how he took his cues from Shepard, so he could be renegade or paragon as well.  Plus dat raspy voice.

 

3) Kasumi and Zaeed.  They are my human standins for Tali and Garrus until I get them in ME2.  I fully admit they are probably the funniest pair in the series.  Although I also admit they are both the most self centered jerks ever and totally unsuited to working in a team.

 

I'll be honest, the rest of the crew I range from "Meh" to hate.

 

"Mehs" are

Mordin

Legion

EDI

Wrex (He's funny and a tank but only available once and I usually prefer garrus and tali)

Samara/Morinth.  Just a Liara standin.

Jack.  Wait no I hate her too for being hyped up as some supreme experiment, yet being the weakest ever.

Grunt (Just a wrex stand in)

 

Despise

Liara (how shes presented as this perfect alien beauty, when to me, shes the LEAST attractive, right after Ashley and Miranda, plus how shes so airheaded and spacey, makes it come across like shes permanently high.)

MIranda.  Perfection, my butt.  She looks like a half melted barbie with buck teeth, and her only role is to cause confrontations with everyone. Yet she wonders why nobody wants to follow her lead...

Jacob.  So.  Bland.  Nothing of note.

Kaiden.  I originally hated him for that stupid haircut, but I kept him over Ashley.  Now I hate him because hes so wishywashy on everything, it gets annoying as hell.

Ashley.  Just the token white/human supremacist like the XO from 1 or Udina.  Killed her off immediately.  Plus shes so full of herself its disgusting.  Not to mention her "pink ranger" armor is embarassing.

Javik.  I get the racism, but I hate how he doesn't even try or begin to grow out of it throughout the story.  Its like, dude this is why you guys died off. YOU DONT LEARN.

The meathead from 3.  From bland "perfect obedience" soldiers in me2 and me1, to this 180 dudebro stereotype.  Can't stand em.  This is why I like Zaeed and Garrus more.  I like the "down to earth" characters.

 

 

Anyone else I don't even remember off the top of my head.