384 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Here's a question, why would the envy demon send him to an operation being conducted by someone serving Corypheus? Seems detrimental to tell him about any lead at all. Envy demon templar gave him nothing at all.

I'm honestly confused as to what we are even talking about at the moment. Just forget I said anything lol.

[Colonelkillabee]

Because it was a trap, he didn't want the Inquisition at Therinfal, if you go to Redcliff, rio me its seen like Alexius was expecting you.

Why not tell him to go to Therinfal immediately instead of Redcliffe's bar though?

[Colonelkillabee]

Why not tell him to go to Therinfal immediately instead of Redcliffe's bar though?

Well, actually, she'd have to mention magisters then, and that wouldn't turn out well. Still, it doesn't explain why Fiona says we seem familiar.

 

But sure, Envy demon Fiona's a possibility.

[Boost32]

Why not tell him to go to Therinfal immediately instead of Redcliffe's bar though?

Because you will interrupt his plan to corrupt the templars. If you do Champions of the Just, Denam will tell you how your meddling made them speed up their plans, the longer you stay away, more templars will be corrupted ( they even try to stall you with the flag ritual).

[eyezonlyii]

Well, actually, she'd have to mention magisters then, and that wouldn't turn out well. Still, it doesn't explain why Fiona says we seem familiar.

 

But sure, Envy demon Fiona's a possibility.

Unless, as someone pointed out, echoes of the previous timeline still exist in Fiona's mind from before Alexius turned back the clock. Personally, I don't buy the blood magic theory because (I believe) Dorian states that Alexius despised blood magic as much as he does and that is why they worked together on time magic. 

[Lady Artifice]

What, specifically? If I might ask.

 

The most glaring one wasn't about the mechanics of the time travel itself, but about the effect the red lyrium should have had over our companions during that time. I don't think they should have been able to communicate with us coherently, let alone be up and ready to fight under that much influence. 

 

Another other has to do with the Fiona/Val Royeaux thing. I think the reason there's so much contention over it is because it isn't explained well in universe. 

 

If that event never happened for her, why put in the dialogue where she says, "Now that you say it, I feel strange," like something in her memory is trying to work it's way back to her conscious mind. That was why my first impulse was to go, "Oh, mind control." I had a Indoctrination flashback at that moment. 

 

I think the writer's just thought, "So Edit (oops): time travel is cool, but we'll have to be as vague as possible about how it works and when it's actually in play so that if something doesn't make sense we don't look silly."

[phaonica]

This is true, the idiot ball being passed around a plenty is common in bioware stories. There is no proof of bloodmagic, but it's certainly something that should at least be considered when judging Fiona. I mean, what's his face is very liberal with his time powers. Why wouldn't he use blood magic too to influence her. I mean, she went and turned against Teagan and his men, people that were helping her. That's a big jump to make.

 

 

And that's exactly where I'm coming from and what it comes down to. Why are people dismissing something that is reasonable?

 

Really, I'm only strongly supporting this angle because one, people asked "Why Fiona, why?" and two, because the hate here for her is rabid. Hell, even if there wasn't any blood magic, one could hardly blame her for going to somewhere that she has at least a small chance of being accepted, vs being stuck in Thedas having to fight the templars.

 

That said, I still think the decision was stupid since she had Redcliffe helping her, but well, not everyone's meant to lead and can keep their cool. *shrug* She's not a leader, no, but you'd think one would put the hate on the guys backing the animal in the corner in the first place... I used to criticize Fiona a lot more myself until people started defending Templars and shitting on mages alone.

 

Anyway, to wrap it up and answer my question, people are too dead set on hating Fiona to even want to consider something other than what they've been told. That is sad, if you ask me.

 

It seems like a big jump, but so many other people in this game do similarly seemingly stupid things that I can't consider it far fetched for her to simply have done something stupid.

 

Alexius did have the capacity and the motive to use blood magic, yes. For some reason I can't quite explain yet, the narrative not addressing if threats or blackmail were involved doesn't bother me, but not addressing that blood magic might have been involved does. It has something to do with the feeling that blood magic being involved utterly removes any responsibilty of the person's actions, while the narrative is specifically leading us as players to think that this was hers and the mages decision. I don't know. I'll have to think about it some more.

[General TSAR]

Fiona is the epitome of bad decisions.

 

I don't know where this whole blood magic mind control thing comes from, but it's a poor excuse. And I certainly don't remember her ever doing anything smart.

All her decisions are on the spur-of-the-moment.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Lady Artifice]

Unless, as someone pointed out, echoes of the previous timeline still exist in Fiona's mind from before Alexius turned back the clock. Personally, I don't buy the blood magic theory because (I believe) Dorian states that Alexius despised blood magic as much as he does and that is why they worked together on time magic. 

 

Well...If that's so, then that might change my mindset. The only person I heard Dorian say that about was his father. I've been operating under the belief that Alexius is a practiced blood mage, and that blood magic was a part of the experiments on Leliana and his efforts to save his son. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Unless, as someone pointed out, echoes of the previous timeline still exist in Fiona's mind from before Alexius turned back the clock. Personally, I don't buy the blood magic theory because (I believe) Dorian states that Alexius despised blood magic as much as he does and that is why they worked together on time magic. 

Do you know where he says that? I've never heard Alexius was against blood magic. Even then, if using it to help Corypheus helped cure his son I have no doubt he would use it.

 

Though Alexius is killed by Corypheus if you side with the Templars, so him using blood magic is irrelevant. It would be Corypheus who would cast it since he likes to control everyone personally, and he has no problem using it. 

[TK514]

Well...If that's so, then that might change my mindset. The only person I heard Dorian say that about was his father. I've been operating under the belief that Alexius is a practiced blood mage, and that blood magic was a part of the experiments on Leliana and his efforts to save his son.

I thought the Leliana experiments were Taint magic.

As for the debate, my issue isn't with the theory. The whole thing is so poorly written that virtually any excuse is possible. For all we know, she ate bad fish and was hallucinating being on vacation with Maric whe she was attacking Haven.

My issue is with a few posters in the past who have, ironically, claimed it was blood magic, called anyone who disagreed idiots, and refused to provide any of the proof they claimed to have. So it is possible I react more stridently to the subject being brought up than I actually feel about the theory itself.

[Ashagar]

The most glaring one wasn't about the mechanics of the time travel itself, but about the effect the red lyrium should have had over our companions during that time. I don't think they should have been able to communicate with us coherently, let alone be up and ready to fight under that much influence. 

 

 

And if you brought Cassandra along it gets really strange as you later learn hat the seekers were lured away to their deaths by Lord Lucius because red lyrium doesn't effect them which made them useless to Corypheus so how did it have any effect on Cassandra in the whole time travel segment?.

[The Baconer]

Dorian mentions that he and Alexius would talk about standing against the corruption in the Imperium, before Felix was infected. Maybe that included blood magic (given Dorian's distaste for the art), maybe not.

[Colonelkillabee]

Because you will interrupt his plan to corrupt the templars. If you do Champions of the Just, Denam will tell you how your meddling made them speed up their plans, the longer you stay away, more templars will be corrupted ( they even try to stall you with the flag ritual).

One way or another though, someone's plans with Corypheus will be interrupted though...

[Colonelkillabee]

As for Alexius, it occurs to no one yet that he'd change his mind and resort to anything to save his son? Joining Corypheus is already a huge leap in personality change. Blood magic's just like a murderer committing petty theft. Why not, really.

[thats1evildude]

Because you will interrupt his plan to corrupt the templars. If you do Champions of the Just, Denam will tell you how your meddling made them speed up their plans, the longer you stay away, more templars will be corrupted ( they even try to stall you with the flag ritual).

 

Actually, the flag ritual is part of the Envy demon's process of "studying" you, by learning what you prioritize. If you don't do it, there's a bit of dialogue that disappears during Envy's attack on you.

[LOLandStuff]

Alexius was experiment on Leliana about the Taint because she had incredible resistance.

 

And I believe red lyrium can be grown on seekers if ingested, but not driven insane by it if exposed to it.

[Lady Artifice]

I thought the Leliana experiments were Taint magic.

As for the debate, my issue isn't with the theory. The whole thing is so poorly written that virtually any excuse is possible. For all we know, she ate bad fish and was hallucinating being on vacation with Maric whe she was attacking Haven.

My issue is with a few posters in the past who have, ironically, claimed it was blood magic, called anyone who disagreed idiots, and refused to provide any of the proof they claimed to have. So it is possible I react more stridently to the subject being brought up than I actually feel about the theory itself.

 

Completely understandable. When people set a bad example in a debate, it gets harder to voice agreement with their point, and a lot easier to attack it.  

 

And if you brought Cassandra along it gets really strange as you later learn hat the seekers were lured away to their deaths by Lord Lucius because red lyrium doesn't effect them which made them useless to Corypheus so how did it have any effect on Cassandra in the whole time travel segment?.

 

 

I didn't even think of that, good point.

 

As for Alexius, it occurs to no one yet that he'd change his mind and resort to anything to save his son? Joining Corypheus is already a huge leap in personality change. Blood magic's just like a murderer committing petty theft. Why not, really.

 

This, definitely. Alexius is already feeling desperate when we first meet him at the Inn. Even if he doesn't approve of Blood magic, he'd break his own rules in a heartbeat for Felix. 

[Hellion Rex]

As for Alexius, it occurs to no one yet that he'd change his mind and resort to anything to save his son? Joining Corypheus is already a huge leap in personality change. Blood magic's just like a murderer committing petty theft. Why not, really.

Point. I would agree that the prospect of losing Felix might cause the man to turn to BM.

[TK514]

Point. I would agree that the prospect of losing Felix might cause the man to turn to BM.

More fibre might help.

[Boost32]

One way or another though, someone's plans with Corypheus will be interrupted though...

Yes, but it is easier to lay a trap at Redcliff (they didn't know about the secret entrance and the mages are already servants) than at Therinfal ( the templars were already asking questions about the why they arent helping against the Breach and would fight against envy if they discovered the truth)

[Boost32]

Actually, the flag ritual is part of the Envy demon's process of "studying" you, by learning what you prioritize. If you don't do it, there's a bit of dialogue that disappears during Envy's attack on you.

I think its both, because its change Denam dialogue too, if you don't do it he will say they needed to speed up their plan.

[The Hierophant]

My issue with Fiona being MC in Redcliffe is that Bio's writers usually throw out hints or outright state that someone was being brainwashed. If Fiona was being controlled Solas or Cass not noticing it is bizarre. Shouldn't a powerful BM spell that's not sensed by an ancient elf mage, and a veteran seeker be worth mentioning? Another missed oppurtunity is the absence of any references about Fiona or Alexius in relations to Cory's prototype control spell during " Under Her Skin".

[Exaltation]

• Fiona hears about the Inquisition coming to Val Royeaux,so she goes there in hopes to join the Rebel Mages to the cause
• Alexius finds out about it,goes back in time before Fiona decides to go to Val Royeaux,convinces her joining the Venatori is the only option before the Inquisition reaches to Redcliffe.
• Whether you recruit Templars/Mages,Rebel Mages & Venatori are later banished from Redcliffe by Anora &/ Alistair.
• No.2 leads to attack on Haven.

That's what i got from this lol.

[Amne YA]

 

• Fiona hears about the Inquisition coming to Val Royeaux,so she goes there in hopes to join the Rebel Mages to the cause
• Alexius finds out about it,goes back in time before Fiona decides to go to Val Royeaux,convinces her joining the Venatori is the only option before the Inquisition reaches to Redcliffe.
• Whether you recruit Templars/Mages,Rebel Mages & Venatori are later banished from Redcliffe by Anora &/ Alistair.
• No.2 leads to attack on Haven.

That's what i got from this lol.

 

you are right ,