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why Fiona ; Why?


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#376
Digger1967

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My problem with your central theory, that Alexius couldn't have enough forces to make a difference, is that, when you are tossed into the future, you are explicitly told that he did.  He not only had enough forces to make his argument convincing, he had enough to hold Redcliffe against the Inquisition, the Templars, and the Ferelden Army.  So whatever he brought, however they got there, it was enough to make good on his promise.

 

There are several reasons stealing a march on the Inquisition makes sense.  It deprives the Inquisition of the magical might to close the Breach (which Alexius needs open for his time magic), it gets him in a position to take over the greatest defensive fortification in Ferelden (which he does), it augments his forces with additional mages (while depriving his opponents of the same), and, perhaps most importantly, Corypheus told him to.

 

Now, while I absolutely agree that moving large concentrations of foreign troops around the hostile countryside is more than a little handwaved here, it isn't as though it is unique to this situation.  DA:I basically exists on the premise that no one notices armies of Venatori and Red Templars moving around and taking over whole provinces and attacking holy sites while manipulating nobility and whatever.  Everyone in DA:I that isn't part of the Inquisition is blind, stupid, crazy, or all of the above.

 

Ok, keep in mind he doesn't need that much of a force to hold Redcliffe, it's a very defensible position.  Cullen makes mention of how defensible it is at the start of the mage quest.   A small force of Venatori with support from the rebel mages and the advantage of surprise could take it,and then hold it.  Especially if Cory and company use their influence to keep the templars from helping the Fereldon army in any significant way to retake it.  All they have to do is hold out until Cory raises his demon army and it's game over.

 

However Fiona and her rebels don't know that this is the plan, and wouldn't sign on with it if they did, so the question becomes what could Alexius offer them?  I can buy that he managed to bring a force sufficient to take Redcliffe by surprise - but the notion that he could bring enough of a force to convince the rebel mages that he could truly offer them safe passage back to Travintor is another matter entirely.

 

Without safe passage, the citizenship, etc - all becomes worthless to the rebels.  So really without some other form of coercion they don't have a good reason to sign on with Alexius in the first place.  The rebels can't know about the demon army or Cory's involvement, so for them the logical outcome of taking Redcliffe would be an alliance between the Templars and the Fereldon Army, and their eventual destruction.

 

I guess I'm curious as to why so many seem so vehement against the notion that some form of magical coercion might be invovled.  I do find that rather curious, because honestly it is the simplest and most direct way of providing a plausible fix to the missing story elements.



#377
TEWR

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We can blames Leliana incompetence for that.

 

I'm more inclined to blame Bioware's incompetence, especially for Leliana's incompetence. Even accepting the whole "no scouts" thing doesn't entirely work for me to explain it.

 

Let's not even get into Cullen having elf-eyes when Samson appears.


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#378
Boost32

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I'm more inclined to blame Bioware's incompetence, especially for Leliana's incompetence. Even accepting the whole "no scouts" thing doesn't entirely work for me to explain it.
 
Let's not even get into Cullen having elf-eyes when Samson appears.

It was not the only time she failed as spymaster, so she failing once more is not far-fetched to me.

#379
Digger1967

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I'm more inclined to blame Bioware's incompetence, especially for Leliana's incompetence. Even accepting the whole "no scouts" thing doesn't entirely work for me to explain it.

 

Let's not even get into Cullen having elf-eyes when Samson appears.

 

What  do your elf eyes see Cullen?

 

Hmmm.. ya, your right,that doesn't really work does it.



#380
Amne YA

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We can blames Leliana incompetence for that.

shuut sister nighgale have ears every where . She have probably heard what you have said and she is coming for you .

#381
Gervaise

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I don't accept magical coercion principally because no one suggests as much.   Dorian and Felix say it is down to time magic.     Leliana has  go at you if you either abandon the mages or conscript them and says they had no choice but to join with Alexius because otherwise they would have died.    Also if Fiona is being magically controlled in her mind, she wouldn't object when Alexius states how they are going to be used.    If you do take the mage path, clearly Fiona continued to object because she is put in the dungeon to be consumed by red lyrium.   

 

This is what makes me think that if you side with the Templars, Fiona willingly goes along with Alexius' plans because it seems as though you have abandoned them and sided with her enemies.   Whereas if you go to Redcliffe Castle and attempt a "rescue" of the mages, she realises that Alexius has been lying to her, sees him try to remove you from history and, to her credit, refuses to co-operate any more.       If her mind had been altered by blood magic she would surely have continued to work with him regardless.


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#382
Boost32

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I don't accept magical coercion principally because no one suggests as much.   Dorian and Felix say it is down to time magic.     Leliana has  go at you if you either abandon the mages or conscript them and says they had no choice but to join with Alexius because otherwise they would have died.    Also if Fiona is being magically controlled in her mind, she wouldn't object when Alexius states how they are going to be used.    If you do take the mage path, clearly Fiona continued to object because she is put in the dungeon to be consumed by red lyrium.   
 
This is what makes me think that if you side with the Templars, Fiona willingly goes along with Alexius' plans because it seems as though you have abandoned them and sided with her enemies.   Whereas if you go to Redcliffe Castle and attempt a "rescue" of the mages, she realises that Alexius has been lying to her, sees him try to remove you from history and, to her credit, refuses to co-operate any more.       If her mind had been altered by blood magic she would surely have continued to work with him regardless.

I don't think she see as the Inquisition abandoned her and her fellow mages. I think Corypheus killed the first mages who refused to join them, Fiona seeing no way to save her people joined the Venatori hoping to keep them alive.

#383
Amne YA

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yep that what happened , no blood magic or mind control  , Cory is a bully , :3



#384
Lumix19

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I don't accept magical coercion principally because no one suggests as much.   Dorian and Felix say it is down to time magic.     Leliana has  go at you if you either abandon the mages or conscript them and says they had no choice but to join with Alexius because otherwise they would have died.    Also if Fiona is being magically controlled in her mind, she wouldn't object when Alexius states how they are going to be used.    If you do take the mage path, clearly Fiona continued to object because she is put in the dungeon to be consumed by red lyrium.   
 
This is what makes me think that if you side with the Templars, Fiona willingly goes along with Alexius' plans because it seems as though you have abandoned them and sided with her enemies.   Whereas if you go to Redcliffe Castle and attempt a "rescue" of the mages, she realises that Alexius has been lying to her, sees him try to remove you from history and, to her credit, refuses to co-operate any more.       If her mind had been altered by blood magic she would surely have continued to work with him regardless.


I agree that she wasn't mind controlled before, maybe influenced but not full on controlled. I do think Fiona and the others were mind controlled if you side with the Templars though because Corypheus literally can't afford to waste any troops and Fiona is a powerful mage. In the altered future I think the Venatori were far more lax, since they had the red Templars, and probably just alternated between torture, threats and mind control on a whim. Fiona, as someone who stood up to Alexius, probably got imprisoned and fed red lyrium to torture her and "teach her a lesson".

#385
Rannik

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Let's not even get into Cullen having elf-eyes when Samson appears.

 

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