But you can encounter the oculara before going to Redcliff.
To me its one more proof the Fiona in Val Royeaux was envy and the time travel theory is not true
Demons can't duplicate themselves. Unless somehow envy found a way to leave the templar entourage to impersonate Fiona, I don't see how that's possible.
Demons can't duplicate themselves. Unless somehow envy found a way to leave the templar entourage to impersonate Fiona, I don't see how that's possible.
Easy. It was another Envy Demon. Corypheus has apparently bargained with several demons for aid, why not ally with another shape shifter?
But before the Alexius' arrival there would not be any oculara if he used the time travel spell.
This is too confusing, I hate the time travel plot.
Given the context, I don't see the Tranquil in Redcliffe being the primary source for the Oculara found around Thedas. Alexius was assigned to collect the rebel mages, and the time travel spell was used to that end, but the Venatori were already working on other schemes.
The problem was both. With the abuses of the system and the fact that the mages were no longer happy remaining in the Circle. But should we ignore their opinions and force them back into their Circles against their will? A population can't be managed like that. Lambert tried and all it resulted in was chaos. Compromise, not tyranny will keep the peace.
I don't agree but the point here is not what will keep the peace.
The point is that the simple presence of rebellions is not an indication that a system doesn't work, which is what the mage in that codex was claiming, because people are dissatisfied by nature
I don't blame the Templars for not dealing with the rebel templars considering Envy, the demons and the apostates.
You should. I do. They failed tremendously.
And the mages failed to prevent their own number from murdering normal people despite claims they could do so.
Worse, they washed their hands off it "Not our problem."
Also just because your dissatisfied with the result of a vote doesn't mean you can just ignore it.
But if you are dissatisfied with a system, you can rebel against it and the system should take this into account and change to incorporate the reasons you rebelled?
That is what you were claiming.
Demons can't duplicate themselves. Unless somehow envy found a way to leave the templar entourage to impersonate Fiona, I don't see how that's possible.
Why he cant leace the templar entourage? He is their leader, he could use any excuse to leave them.
I dont see how the time travel explanation (its full of plot holes, like the Inquisitor being the only one to remembers) is makes more sense.
Given the context, I don't see the Tranquil in Redcliffe being the primary source for the Oculara found around Thedas. Alexius was assigned to collect the rebel mages, and the time travel spell was used to that end, but the Venatori were already working on other schemes.
But we never seen any indications of them before Redcliff. Anyway its to complicated to make sense of the time travel, the better things is to ignore it and enjoy the game.
But we never seen any indications of them before Redcliff. Anyway its to complicated to make sense of the time travel, the better things is to ignore it and enjoy the game.
You can find Venatori on the Storm Coast and the Forbidden Oasis, the latter of which is coincidentally the focus of the Oculara project.
You can find Venatori on the Storm Coast and the Forbidden Oasis, the latter of which is coincidentally the focus of the Oculara project.
And after exploring those places with the shards, it made the Venatori look really dumb. I can't believe they wasted so much time and resources just to get some average magical loot. The gear you get from the temple is not even THAT impressive.
You can find Venatori on the Storm Coast and the Forbidden Oasis, the latter of which is coincidentally the focus of the Oculara project.
Can we enter those areas before going to Val Royeaux?
Can we enter those areas before going to Val Royeaux?
I know from personal experience that Storm Coast can be traveled to before Val Royeaux. As for Forbidden Oasis, the only requirement that I know of is doing the war table mission that becomes available as soon as you find a shard.
You can't even enter Redcliffe before the time travel has already happened, so you are literally lying right here.
Sorry, kid, stop making stuff up. It's stated right in Redcliffe that the skulls are from the Tranquil that left with the mages, not ones abandoned on their own. Further, the Tranquil would have be unable to survive that long on their own. Dialogue with Minaeve makes it clear that the Tranquil cannot protect themselves from threats, and don't even eat unless they are told.
I know from personal experience that Storm Coast can be traveled to before Val Royeaux. As for Forbidden Oasis, the only requirement that I know of is doing the war table mission that becomes available as soon as you find a shard.
I was doing a reserach and while you can enter the Storm Coast before going to Val Royeaux, you can only find the Venatori after Val Royauex, since they are part of the IB quest.
But I think we can go to the Forbidden Oasis before going to Val Royeuax.
I just wanted to say that we're given enough lore ammo in DAI to be able to legitimately disregard the Mage path's 'time travel' as time travel, regardless of what Dorian and Alexius thinks.
Portal is like a portal to the Fade.
'Fiona' in VR can be another demon.
The magical expectation is of time travel, making it happen (willpower).
A world can seem like real - Solas conversations prove this.
Inquisitor has the Anchor allowing more physical travel to/through the Fade.
Everyone involved can think that time travel is what happened, enemy and ally, while it can still just be more of a pocket Fade realm.
Thank Solas for leaving this possibility open.
Maybe there's holes in this idea but I just wanted to post this.
Personally I like to think its both true and untrue. I don't think we we need to think of time as normal when it comes to the fabric of reality in Dragon Age - just DAI is what starts to focus on this in the context of 'time'. Every being in Dragon Age existence may be 'living a dream' of sorts, so I'm not bothered by the inclusion sometimes of weird offshoot 'dreams of reality' that we can call 'time travel' - effectively such to the people involved with it (Dorian and Inquisitor).
I think 'time magic' basically 'hacks the world', letting one go into the known past, or more unstable, letting one go into an unknown 'future' sliver of reality. It doesn't need to be understood as time travel in the more mainstream scifi view, or even 'time' travel at all.
Thedas itself may be considered a dream of the Maker.
http://www.gamefaqs....sition/70951643
There are different points of view you can take on all of this, and I really think this is by design. You can decide how much of 'magic' and 'thought' and 'time travel' is happening.
To those who don't want time travel in their Dragon Age game, you therefore have an 'out'. Just disregard some of the (biased) lines of some characters and believe that 'time magic' is an elaborate magical illusion and only Thedas-as-we-live-in-it matters. Inquisition is just the first DA game to significantly push on the boundaries of what we consider 'reality' in Dragon Age so its a harder path to take when experiencing the plot.
But always remember oh-so-smart Solas' lines after the mission - did you really time travel? Well you at least sorta did, but you as the player can decide how much. 'Temporal disruptions' from rifts can even just be understood as just more wacky magic at work, not 'temporal' as we centralize time on Thedas.
When you get into concepts of 'dreaming', things get kinda complicated.
TLDR: Believe what you want, just take the info presented to you at least. That's not just for this time stuff, but everything. Justinia, Chantry, Elves, Maker, Technology, everything really. You're to question things to some degree, since Dragon Age as a series still has a while to go.
EDIT: Even the weirdness of Fiona/others(? I forget) being foggy about Alexius can be explained by either Time Magic or Blood Magic. We're not allowed to know for sure. Alexius does use Time Magic, but we don't know whether it mattered in this case.
EDIT: While I think things like 'The Breach' won't happen again or at least be as important, I do think the Veil will thin/be 'removed' in a way in the next game or the game after, bringing more 'time' stuff to the forefront but in a longer-explained and less-quickly-drastic way than the Mage DAI quest. We'll be given more material to work with then, but IMO we'll always be allowed to think 2-3ish major but conflicting things about it. If you don't want time travel in your Dragon Age, I think you'll always be able to legitimately consider it 'just' a spell that simulates the conditions of 'time travel' (in a more definitive sense), but doesn't 'truly' do it.
Still always messing with the fabric of reality though. But whatever - the Fade both establishes and changes all the rules as we know them or come to know them. DAI only fully slaps us in the face with the truth (taken one way or another) that Thedas is not the only important 'location' to care about. Hate the Fade stuff in DAO and DA2 all you want - the Fade matters.
The Oculara are from Tranquil that the Venatori kill. The rebel mages can simply have not known about this before they allied with the Venatori, but they go along with it + are forced to go along with it (depending on the mage), either passively from not looking into what the Venatori are doing, or actively helping them.
Whatever happened, the rebel mages were a big part of the Oculara happening. I only find it hard to believe either of:
1)The rebel mages were ALL to do with ALL of the Oculara
2)The rebel mages were NOTHING to do with ANY the Oculara
IMO we can simply agree that they played a big role, and the Tranquil would have been a lot safer if this mage rebellion stuff wasn't happening. But that's what happens in violent revolution - chaotic elements take advantage. Duh, you're bringing on chaos! Its up to the player to decide to be more on the side that thinks its still worth it as long as the mages have even any chance at freedom, or the side that would have wanted to minimize this sort of thing anyway, more regardless of mage freedom.
I don't think we're dealing with a situation with rebel mages gladly handing over all of the Tranquil. Neither Templar nor Mage faction (the ones we work with I mean) in DAI are that bad. We're not driven to such more relative extremes as DA2.
EDIT: Yes, most Tranquil were indeed not with the rebel Mages, but were instead abandoned, probably as just being liabilities in their increasingly pitched conflict with the Templars. This left them open to being mopped up by the Venatori, without help by the Mages nor protection by the Templars. The Redcliffe Mages just can't do anything against the Venatori even if they opposed them, due to being outvoted + Fiona + Venetori rule. I doubt many Mages actually supported and were fine with hunting Tranquil, but they also put themselves in a position where they can't do anything about it.
Sorry, kid, stop making stuff up.
Why don't you check the codexes you keep religiously sighting, nerd.
Alexius was quite clear in his orders. We must scour the countryside to find more of the shards. Without them, the Venatori cannot claim the treasure our master seeks. For that, we need the oculara. Without them, the shards are nearly impossible to find, even if they are no longer cloaked by whatever magic hid them for all these centuries.
There must be more Tranquil in the area — the rebels abandoned most of them when they fled their Circles.
Minaeve in addition confirms that most of the Tranquil were left behind, but nowhere is it said that the Tranquil will not eat so sustain themselves.
Literally lying again.
Why don't you check the codexes you keep religiously sighting, nerd.
Alexius was quite clear in his orders. We must scour the countryside to find more of the shards. Without them, the Venatori cannot claim the treasure our master seeks. For that, we need the oculara. Without them, the shards are nearly impossible to find, even if they are no longer cloaked by whatever magic hid them for all these centuries.
There must be more Tranquil in the area — the rebels abandoned most of them when they fled their Circles.
Minaeve in addition confirms that most of the Tranquil were left behind, but nowhere is it said that the Tranquil will not eat so sustain themselves.
Literally lying again.
Where do you find the codex that explains how the venatori are using the skulls of tranquil to make the oculara? That sounds fascinating! Why do they need specifically tranquil skulls to be able to build them?
I don't agree but the point here is not what will keep the peace.
The point is that the simple presence of rebellions is not an indication that a system doesn't work, which is what the mage in that codex was claiming, because people are dissatisfied by nature
You should. I do. They failed tremendously.
And the mages failed to prevent their own number from murdering normal people despite claims they could do so.
Worse, they washed their hands off it "Not our problem."
But if you are dissatisfied with a system, you can rebel against it and the system should take this into account and change to incorporate the reasons you rebelled?
That is what you were claiming.
Where do you find the codex that explains how the venatori are using the skulls of tranquil to make the oculara? That sounds fascinating! Why do they need specifically tranquil skulls to be able to build them?
To get the complete note you need to enter the locked house in Recliffe and also find an Oculara in the world. The whole process is so complex its almost more comedic than horrifying... at least in writing.
A crystal must be placed near a Tranquil, then the Tranquil needs to have a demon forced upon them, and then they must be immediately killed. I assume the crystal is then implanted in the skull.
As for why this process requires the Tranquil in particular, I don't believe that is ever really explained.
Yes! If the people who live under a system are no longer happy it's the obligation of that system to try and work out a suitable compromise. You can't just ignore complaints because you believe you're in the right. This is precisely how real life works. People change and the system changes with it.
Which is exactly what Justinia was doing. Heck she was already actively searching for an alternative to the Rite of Tranquility. And she was listening to the grievances of the mages. Too bad Adrian sabotaged everything to force a rebellion.
Exactly! Justinia was doing the right thing. Lambert was not. Sure I blame Adrian for essentially provoking it but I have little doubt that what followed is basically what Lambert wanted anyway. He would never have allowed the Divine to enact the necessary reforms. It's just a case where two extremists want war and the moderates get swept up in it.Which is exactly what Justinia was doing. Heck she was already actively searching for an alternative to the Rite of Tranquility. And she was listening to the grievances of the mages. Too bad Adrian sabotaged everything to force a rebellion.
To get the complete note you need to enter the locked house in Recliffe and also find an Oculara in the world. The whole process is so complex its almost more comedic than horrifying... at least in writing.
A crystal must be placed near a Tranquil, then the Tranquil needs to have a demon forced upon them, and then they must be immediately killed. I assume the crystal is then implanted in the skull.
As for why this process requires the Tranquil in particular, I don't believe that is ever really explained.
To get the complete note you need to enter the locked house in Recliffe and also find an Oculara in the world. The whole process is so complex its almost more comedic than horrifying... at least in writing.
A crystal must be placed near a Tranquil, then the Tranquil needs to have a demon forced upon them, and then they must be immediately killed. I assume the crystal is then implanted in the skull.
As for why this process requires the Tranquil in particular, I don't believe that is ever really explained.
http://gaminggix.com...ds1-700x440.jpg
Which locked house? >_< I'm so intrigued by this dude.
I suspect it's something to do with a 'touched' mind. When a demon (or spirits) touches the mind of a tranquil it undoes tranquility and grants magical powers correct? Perhaps its an Elven technique that's somehow connected to the shards.
When you talk to Cassandra after her personal quest she said that her tranquility was broken by a spirt of faith so I suppose that's right. I wonder what kind of skills other sprits (or demons) can give you if Faith lets you burn the lyrium in a person's body and be invulnerable to possession.
Which locked house? >_< I'm so intrigued by this dude.
It's in Redcliffe Village, somewhere down by the docks if I recall correctly.
I'm gonna be all up in that house after I finish exams 
Exactly! Justinia was doing the right thing. Lambert was not. Sure I blame Adrian for essentially provoking it but I have little doubt that what followed is basically what Lambert wanted anyway. He would never have allowed the Divine to enact the necessary reforms. It's just a case where two extremists want war and the moderates get swept up in it.
We'll never know, now, won't we?
Of course, even if Lambert did, the Chantry could have condemned him as a heretic or something. The Circles would have been seen as still loyal to the Chantry, and Lambert as the rebel flinging defiance at the Chantry.
Instead, the mages rebelling first simply lent credence to his claims, and fear to the populace.
For all her flaws, she still is very useful for debate.
While I disagree that allowing them to be free is something that should never be done as Vivienne might think, she's right about the risks.
True, mages don't turn into abominations or go power hungry everyday. But it only takes something going wrong just once for people's hatred against them to escalate.
The College of Mages is a good option, but the point is that they need to be isolated whether it's under the Chantry's rules or their own.
The good thing about Circles or a similar concept is that if the worst happens, it will be away from the common citizen's sight.
I like Divine Cassandra's idea best, though the devs decided she must fail at dealing with them no matter what. Go figure.
Honestly with my first character Amolla Vollsa (female human sw/sh warrior) I always took Vivianne and we always saw eye to eye regardless of our different opinions. Amolla felt the mages should be free and not be controlled while the templars should be their own order. The purpose of a divine is to be a fair and respected person who knows how to govern a land. Since Amolla knew an equal amount of political knowhow (researched nobelity knowledge, underworld knowledge, history knowledge) Vivianne knew Amolla was an equal. However since I sided with the templars I had the templars become holy enforcers when her when i made Vivianne divine. Frankly I felt like I made a good choice and Vivianne felt I was wise in my decision.
On the flip side about Cassandra frankly making her divine with Draven Vollsa (male human 2H warrior) felt like a mistake because I think i conscripted the mages. When i made Cassandra divine it split the mages into two factions (pro Cassandra/nay cassandra). To me from my understand Cassandra doesn't understand the politics of things and feels the only way she can solve problems is through the means of battle (or punching things as she puts it). Vivianne knows this to be one of Cassandra's flaws and i do whole-heartedely agree with this statement from Vivianne.
Frankly i rather have someone whole is smart in the politics department and knows about the flaws of someone or something as opposed to "i hate you!" *punch*. It seemed like Cassandra ended DAI in sequel fashion while Vivianne seemed defenite.
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