52 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Bioware has stated since Origins that they have no plans to reveal whether the Maker exists or not, and would rather leave it ambiguous. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Bioware has stated since Origins that they have no plans to reveal whether the Maker exists or not, and would rather leave it ambiguous.

Which is a good thing.

He either exists in all of his divine glory or does not.

It's fifty fifty.

[Amne YA]

i have found something intersting between cole and solas 
https://www.youtube....h?v=Dv1ysDRp6Cw


 

[Amne YA]

So cole is saying the maker is the DAD of the elven gods ? 

[Digger1967]

So we discover that elven gods exist , and tiventer gods exist , but until now their is no evidance of the maker existance ,
Solas say about the elven gods that he don"t beleive they are gods they are powerfull mages or something .
The tiventer say about their gods that theu are some ancient Magister , right ?
SO THEIR IS NO GOD in DA ? just elven mage and tiventer Magister that turned to gods just Cory was traying ?
some one explain pliz

I think the best explanation on this comes from Sera. A seat needs a butt.

[Eliastion]

As for Maker, I think we should make a distinction. There is the Chantry Maker and it really is anything but the "god that doesn't need to prove himself" - he's so insecure in his godhood that he feels insulted if people (or not enough people) worship him. Oh, and he gets interested in mortal's look/voice. Makes soooo much sense for all-powerful creator of everything.

Then there is the idea of Maker as the idea of creator of the reality itself... and he could be much more like how Chant of Light describes him in the creation myth - physical world as place where mind/soul clashes with constraints of static reality. This would actually let the Maker do - by proxy - something he, a nigh-omnipotent being - can never do himself: overcome obstacles and witness the effects of this process. Why would he want worship? What use would he have for it? He made it all - would his ego really be so fragile as to suffer if they don't remember him down there?
It's all wild guessing, of course, but I think Chantry has it right when it says that Maker turned his back on the world, they're just fatally mistaken as to why. It's not because there's something WRONG with the world or its people. Just the opposite - it's because it is working perfectly. Mortal beings struggle with what little power over their surrounding they have, the miracle of life is happening... so everything seems to be going alright. Why should Maker interfere with something that is working perfectly as it was meant to be?

[Roamingmachine]

spirits? powerfull spirit ?the avaar worship  spirit and name them  gods , so maybe it"s the same thing ?  Spirit of godhood  ?  like their is a spirit of wisdome / rage etc ?

 

 

A really powerful spirit that takes interest and interacts with mortals and gets worshipped in turn is pretty much the definition of a god, so....  Honestly, the elven gods are from a time when there was no real distinction between the fade and the physical. 'Fade spirit' doesn't really fit with that context. I don't think there is a definition in current-day Thedas that actually fits them other than calling them gods.

[esh1996]

The OP isn't a native English speaker. I believe in another thread he said he is from Morocco.

Try to be patient, unless your Arabic is better than his English.

Hey I'm sorry about the correct English comment. The truth is I didn't consider the posibility of the OP not being an native English speaker. I foolishly assumed it was just a troll, using bad grammar to troll grammar nazis like me.

Amine Yakhaf please accept my sincerest apology.

Also, I do know the smallest bit of Arabic, I'm an English expat living in the Middle East, but I'm 100% sure Amine's English is far superior to my Arabic.

[Amne YA]

Hey I'm sorry about the correct English comment. The truth is I didn't consider the posibility of the OP not being an native English speaker. I foolishly assumed it was just a troll, using bad grammar to troll grammar nazis like me.

Amine Yakhaf please accept my sincerest apology.

Also, I do know the smallest bit of Arabic, I'm an English expat living in the Middle East, but I'm 100% sure Amine's English is far superior to my Arabic.

no problem my friend . Apologies accepted

[Amne YA]

Well no one feel his caractère looked stupid when he was believing that he was choosing by andraste and the maker and then discovert that its just elven magic ? Specialy if you play as a human

[Maria13]

Okey so tiventer gods are dragons , and elven gods are mages , 
Solas like the idea of the maker ,  he say that a god that doasn"t need to proove his self as a god is  a  intersting thing

 

Solas is quite possibly only being tactful...

 

When asked directly about his beliefs he says "Cause and effect ect..." ie, he's a rationalist.

[Eliastion]

Solas is quite possibly only being tactful...
 
When asked directly about his beliefs he says "Cause and effect ect..." ie, he's a rationalist.

Wait. Solas? Tactful? Are we talking about the same character who manages to throughly insult race/culture/heritage of pretty much every single Inquisitor while attempting to praise him/her and express his newfound respect for him/her?

[Maria13]

Wait. Solas? Tactful? Are we talking about the same character who manages to throughly insult race/culture/heritage of pretty much every single Inquisitor while attempting to praise him/her and express his newfound respect for him/her?

 

Well, Solas may not be entirely tactful but his reply was given in response to a direct question from Cassandra, one of the most powerful and fearsome members of the inquisition, I think he has very good reasons for not wishing to invite unnecessary aggro...

 

Yes, I think sometimes he is tactful and his remark that a god is that does not need to prove his power is "interesting", is itself "interesting" (ie, perhaps not entirely sincere), given the fact that he states that his basic belief is in "Cause and effect..."

 

Solas very rarely lies, but he does tend to misdirect... Ie cause the listener to believe he is stating one thing when he actually isn't, rather a lot.

[Amne YA]

Solas is the elven god of trickery after all

[Maria13]

Solas is the elven god of trickery after all

 

Not necessarily. But he is extremely astute... And most of the people to whom he replies like this deserve the response they think they get... What business is it of theirs after all is it to know what he happens to believe in or not? 

 

When he says: Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist. 

 

Could that last not be interpreted as meaning the right to have your own opinion in private?

[Amne YA]

Not necessarily. But he is extremely astute... And most of the people he replies like this to deserve the response they think they get... What business is it of theirs after all is it to know what he happens to believe in or not?

When he says: Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist.

Could that last not be interpreted as meaning the right to have your own opinion in private?

well he don't let his opinion for his self . He sau it loud and then hate you if you disagree

[Maria13]

well he don't let his opinion for his self . He sau it loud and then hate you if you disagree

 

Cassandra asks him point blank... He is not allowed to keep his opinion to himself.

 

And he only "slightly disapproves" you have to work very hard indeed to earn Solas's hatred.

[Amne YA]

Haha their is a video on youtube with enoight desaproval you punch him

[Maria13]

Haha their is a video on youtube with enoight desaproval you punch him

 

That's very subtle, isn't it?

 

Bye.

[Gervaise]

Suggest you play Jaws of Hakkon as that throws some interesting new facts into the mix.    Suffice to say there was a time when you could combine worship of your own gods with the Maker and that was seen as okay.    The Chantry has been guilty of some pretty serious deletions from history.   Who is to say that the Chant of Light itself hasn't been altered even more than we know.

 

To my mind the events of DAI do back up certain key elements of the Chant.  The Chant says that people turned from worship of the Maker to false gods.  The Maker also seemed originally to want to let people get on in life without his direct assistance but that they would return to him in their dreams.   It may well be that the Maker wished to respect free will.    That is why when the masses didn't rise up to prevent the death of Andraste, the Maker assumed the people didn't really want the sort of world he meant for them.    The Chantry claims he will return when the Chant is spread throughout the world (which is a convenient excuse to go around conquering things).    I think the true meaning is that the Maker will return when the moral imperatives of the Chant are accepted throughout the world; in other words the strong protecting the weak instead of exploiting them.    An inspired Leliana seems to get this.   She said back in Origins that she doesn't feel the Maker is absent; he is there in the beauty of the natural world.   If people are beautiful in their minds, the Maker will be there too.

 

The gods that various races worship are not powerful Divine beings but more likely spirits that either joined with a mortal being and gave them greater power (like Wynne, Anders, etc, only more so) or simply became manifest in mortal guise (like Cole).   Naturally to ordinary mortals these beings seemed godlike.   Since these beings also seemed to give certain benefits to their followers, naturally people preferred to worship them than some remote "hands off" god that was the Maker.     I wouldn't give too much credence to the things that Solas says because there are times he speaks as though he is just an apostate elf who learned stuff through the Fade and yet by the end he clearly knows so much more than he ever revealed to us.    However, he did say something interesting when I chose a certain dialogue following the Temple of Mythal, to the effect that I would have to decide in the future whether to tear down the Chantry or not.    That has not been an option up to now but the more that seems to be revealed of the past, the more the Chantry looks guilty of concealment.    My guess is that there is going to be some pretty big revelation over Andraste to come that will shake the foundations of the Chantry.     Remember you can still believe in the Maker (like Dorian) and not follow the Chantry.

[PapaCharlie9]

The Sacred Ashes from the Urn had miraculous properties. The Urn also miraculously appeared/disappeared. If you set up the DA:O world state to defile the ashes and kill Leliana, she miraculously is brought back to life in DA:I, and she says that it must have been by the divine will of the Maker.

 

Now you could rationalize all that as very arcane and powerful Fade spirit magic, in which case there is no need to attribute the miracles to the Maker. Or, you can take that as evidence that maybe there was more to the Andraste legend than just a good story.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well no one feel his caractère looked stupid when he was believing that he was choosing by andraste and the maker and then discovert that its just elven magic ? Specialy if you play as a human

Considering that the Maker created everything, including elves, who is to say the elven magic wasn't just the tool they used to grant the Herald their gift. 

[Maria13]

Considering that the Maker created everything, including elves, who is to say the elven magic wasn't just the tool they used to grant the Herald their gift. 

 

Well that would be Mother Giselle's argument... But it is somewhat patronizing.

[Amne YA]

And disappointing . i realy wanted a power not related to magic or elves for once

[Gervaise]

Well Oghran theorised that the reason for the potency of the ashes was locating them over a big bed of lyrium, which could also be why Corypheus wanted to do his ritual there because he needed the lyrium to fuel his ritual, along with the blood of the Divine - actually pretty much reproducing what he did before since that took the entire lyrium stock of the Imperium plus numerous slaves.     Since the Guardian disappeared along with the ashes, it is hard to know what to think about that.   However, the huge amount of lyrium could well account for Leliana's revival since we are told that lyrium isn't inert but living.    It also sings.    Is it possible it is also in some way sentient?   

 

As for power not related to magic or elves, for that you need to go to the Qun.    Gatlock is pretty effective stuff (related to gunpowder) and has nothing to do with magic.   We have never seen a Qunari in full armour either but the codex in DAO says that it is pretty impressive.     The Qun can also alter people's minds without magic.    The downside is you have to accept their religion/philosophy as well, which personally doesn't appeal to me.

 

I'm all for magic and elves because I like my game world to be really different from the real one.    Mind you there are many forms of magic, even among the elves.   As Imshael says in Masked Empire, you really have to respect the ancient elf magic which is clearly far in excess of anything in modern Thedas, even Tevinter.   However,  that is probably what destroyed them in the end; two sides in a war, both with earth shattering magic and using it, would be a bit like two nuclear powers both pushing the button.