51 réponses à ce sujet

[AshenSugar]

TL;DR Version:

 

Please implement items or equipment that gives slow, passive out--of-combat healing to party members when equipped. These can be purchased, found, or crafted.

 

 

 

Long version:

 

What's the most frustrating thing about Dragon Age Inquisition (for me at least)?

 

It's not the rather clunky PC interface, neither is it the eight-ability limit on the action bar. I can live with that too.

 

I can also cope with the lack of in-combat healing, and the removal of healing spells from the game. If Bioware wants it to be a potion spam fest, so be it. I coped with that in Diablo 1 and 2, I can also cope with it in Dragon Age Inquisition. 

 

I get that the developers want the game to feel far more strategic, and we need to make full use of abilities, and it's all balanced around the removal of healing... It's not cool, but I get it.

 

The problem is (in my opinion) that Dragon Age Inquisition doesn't really seem lend itself to highly tactical play. I'm increasing discovering that attempts to play it the same way as I would DA:Origins, or even DA:2 are very often couter-productive, and often do more harm then good. I'll be first to admit this may be due to the clunky PC interface, and the difficulty in getting a really clear view of the battlefield during many fights.... but I personally find that the game works far better when played more as a hack 'n' slash combat game, closer to Skyrim.. or perhaps more accurately, a hybrid of Skyrim and World of Warcraft.

 

This is fine, but Skyrim plays best in first person mode, and I get a very clear view of what's occurring during fights. WoW is fast, responsive, and has an instant lock-on to targets. Both games allow your character to slowly regenerate their health in between fights.

 

Even Diablo 2, which was a pure potion-spam-based game had items available that, when equipped allowed your character to slowly regenerate their health. Belts, rings, amulets and socketable gems, all which gave slow, passive healing. Diablo 3 has the same, along with methods of leaching health from enemies during combat.

 

Mass Effect 1 contained only limited healing, and non-soldiers had no passive health regeneration at all. However medical upgrades could be purchased or discovered, which provided the above, thus making the game far less frustrating, and avoiding the need to constantly grub around for medigel, except when it was direly needed, during tough fights.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition has no such items.

 

Personally I find this very frustrating, and of all the things in the game that I feel could use some attention, this is the most important (to me at least).

 

Therefore, I'd like to suggest the opportunity to buy, locate, or craft some items, jewelry, belts, runes,  armor upgrades..  or whatever... that provide slow, passive health regeneration outside combat.

 

It doesn't need to quickly shunt party members back to full health in seconds, it can tick slowly. But the point is, it would stop me from having to constantly shlep, or teleport back to camp again, and again and again, every time I take damage, or get low on potions. Using a potion because Cassandra's health is standing at 85% is a waste... but at the same time it can make the difference between success and failure when suddenly confronted with a deadly situation, or ambushed.

 

 

Now you may be thinking at this point:

 

"OMG L2P noob. The game is balanced around lack of health regen, and good players don't need it, use your abilities properly, have proper situational awareness, use the tactical camera. I regularly solo all six High Dragons at once on Nightmare, and the only time my health goes below 99% is when I spend too long browsing lolcats on the other monitor while fighting at the same time. U fail so hard...."

 

In which case, that's great. you are clearly very skilled, and I hope to one day be as good as you as I get to grips with the subtler aspects of the game. But for now  I, and perhaps other players who are not the best ever, having to keep on going back to camp again, and again and again find that interrupts the flow of exploration, and drags the game down.

 

So please Bioware, let's have some kind of item-based method of giving passive health regen. It worked in ME:1, it can also work in DA:I. Having such items would not detract from the skill or enjoyment of those who wish not to use them, they would clearly be entirely optional, and affect nobody but the ones to choose to use them. Make them difficult to acquire, to craft if need be, make it so a lot of farming and grinding is needed to gather the materials, or make them drop from tough enemies... I don't care, as long as they exist and can be obtained in some manner.

 

Thank you for listening.

 

 

 

 

 

[caradoc2000]

While not exactly what you asked for, regeneration potions give slow health regeneration, and with the area effect upgrade, one pot heals the entire party.

[Terodil]

I agree. Perhaps tie it into the difficulty slider to determine effectiveness, maybe even make such items useless on nightmare so those people who don't feel challenged enough already don't get more oil poured onto their fires.

 

I would be against making such items purchasable / craftable though. They should be rare, but relatively low-level rewards for a difficult challenge.

[AshenSugar]

While not exactly what you asked for, regeneration potions give slow health regeneration, and with the area effect upgrade, one pot heals the entire party.

Aye, and I make good use of them, however the same fundamental issue remains, I can hold only five, and they need to be restocked, which means shlepping back to camp.

 

I would be against making such items purchasable / craftable though. They should be rare, but relatively low-level rewards for a difficult challenge.

 

 

I'd not want them to be a pure RNG item at all, as it would mean that I have no guarantee of ever getting one. I still think having them craftable or purchasable would be the best solution. I don't mind working for one, as long as I can have it.

[PhroXenGold]

Unfortunately, this breaks the entire concept of attrition based encounter design. The game is designed such that there is a finite amount of healing available to the player. And while it might not be the best implementation of such a system (Pillars of Eternity for example does it much better), I'm very much in the camp of it being a vast improvement over the previous system of unilimted health constrained only by the rate of recovery.

 

The moment you introduce out-of-combat health regeneration, the entire game has to be rebalanced around the fact that you will always begin fights with full health - and therefore every fight has to be capable of taking off all your health, or else it's irrelevant.

[AshenSugar]

The moment you introduce out-of-combat health regeneration, the entire game has to be rebalanced around the fact that you will always begin fights with full health - and therefore every fight has to be capable of taking off all your health, or else it's irrelevant.

 

 

OK, I get what you are saying, but at present I already do begin every fight with full health, because I constantly heal my party with potions as soon as they take damage. If I get low on pots, I simply fast travel to the nearest camp. I'd never want to continue exploring the world with my party limping behind with low health bars. OK I might not bother if just one person loses a fraction of their health, but on the whole, that's what I do.

 

This might not be the case for wave-based fights, or situations when I am unexpectedly ambushed, but in that situation, I very much doubt that passive health regen would make much difference.

[AlexMBrennan]

I'm gonna have to say that I don't think this would help at all - waiting 30s after every engagement for the "slow health regeneration" to heal my dumb rogue who was hit by a single arrow is going to be just as annoying as using a potion after each fight and going back to camp all the time.

The moment you introduce out-of-combat health regeneration, the entire game has to be rebalanced around the fact that you will always begin fights with full health - and therefore every fight has to be capable of taking off all your health, or else it's irrelevant.

I am sorry, but I don't find this terribly convincing - you use one terrible mechanic (endlessly respawming mmo style trash mobs) to justify another terrible mechanic (limited healing) because the correct thing to do would be fixing both issues. Until that's done, I'll be playing Baldur's Gate.

[AshenSugar]

I'm gonna have to say that I don't think this would help at all - waiting 30s after every engagement for the "slow health regeneration" to heal my dumb rogue who was hit by a single arrow is going to be just as annoying as using a potion after each fight and going back to camp all the time. 

 

 

I sympathise completely, and for you it might not be an ideal solution. You would likely choose not to use these items.

 

I do know that I found the same system in Mass Effect 1 to be a Godsend. Sure I can use a medigel for fast healing, but in most cases waiting for the passive regen was a better solution. I rarely find that I need to actually stand around waiting to heal. So much of the game is about exploring areas, interacting with the environment and NPCs as much as combat. By the time the next battle presents itself, my squad it back in fighting shape. Inquisition is similar in that respect, as I'm not literally fighting bandits and demons every thirty seconds.

[Terodil]

I'd not want them to be a pure RNG item at all, as it would mean that I have no guarantee of ever getting one. I still think having them craftable or purchasable would be the best solution. I don't mind working for one, as long as I can have it.

Just reread my post, it was badly formulated. I detest the RNGitis in DA:I, too. What I meant is: Give it as a reward for a challenging quest, not throw it in the player's face right out of the gate. Like specialisations, this is a game changer and should be treated as such, not as a bauble any half-baked adventurer could find with the hawker round the corner. (Actually, I think that all drops should be placed, not subject to RNG. It's lazy, and it's bad design.)

Re: attrition-based gameplay... well... it's not really attrition-based gameplay today either. As the OP said, once you run out of pots, you simply travel to the next camp, BAM! full health, full potions. I do get your point though that this might require re-thinking of the combat system again. Which I would welcome, as a matter of fact, because I personally think that, for various reasons, the decision to abolish healing magic was one of the worst design decisions the BW team could make.

[AshenSugar]

Reward for a challenging quest. Yes I'd definitely go for that.

 

Personally I don't even think the combat system would need re-working, I don't think some passive regen items wojuld affect it all that much, it's not like they would make fights any more survivable, as the amount of slow regen provided could never be enough to mitigate combat damage in any meaningful way.

[Sartoz]

TL;DR Version:

 

Please implement items or equipment that gives slow, passive out--of-combat healing to party members when equipped. These can be purchased, found, or crafted.

 

Big Snip

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----------

 

Thank you for listening.

DAI play design is strategic?.. my nice Dorian butt it is!

 

Anyway, if you read the Comabt and Tactics thread, you will find all kinds of ways to keep you going without the need for slow health regen items. The caveat is that you need to change your combat style or at least better understand the abilities/skills  tree and team combinations.

 

Good luck

[IUDEX99]

Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

 

If you don't like to waste potions on a 85% health-bar and want health-regeneration-items, just use existing ones... :

 

Get a belt with +health.

In the inventory-screen simply euip and unequip the belt several times and you'll notice:

Hurrah, full health!

Ooh Rah, next fight!

 

It's same effect as travelling back to camp and run back to position but is less time-consuming, so I would not consider it being cheating but more a kind of minor exploit.

[AshenSugar]

DAI play design is strategic?.. my nice Dorian butt it is!

 

Anyway, if you read the Comabt and Tactics thread, you will find all kinds of ways to keep you going without the need for slow health regen items. The caveat is that you need to change your combat style or at least better understand the abilities/skills  tree and team combinations.

 

Good luck

 

As I said, I don't think it's particularly strategic either. It gives you some tools to play strategically, but frankly, they are not implemented particularly well, on the PC at least. DA:I works best as a hack and slash game. and I'm ok with that. It's more like Skyrim than DA:O. Personally I like both games.

 

The other thing you said about combat and tactics etc. is really just a more polite way of saying :L2P

 

I do agree actually. It's always good to get to grips with the game mechanics, and as I get more proficient, I'm sure I'll start to get better at mitigating damage. Even now at this early level I can finish most basic fights against bandits etc. with little or no health loss.

 

But I still want some method of getting slow, out-of-combat health regen, because when I do take damage, I find that the necessity to keep on to-ing and fro-ing back to camp interrupts the flow of exploration. It just feels like an unwelcome game mechanic that's forced upon me for no particularly good reason.

[AshenSugar]

Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

 

If you don't like to waste potions on a 85% health-bar and want health-regeneration-items, just use existing ones... :

 

Get a belt with +health.

In the inventory-screen simply euip and unequip the belt several times and you'll notice:

Hurrah, full health!

Ooh Rah, next fight!

 

It's same effect as travelling back to camp and run back to position but is less time-consuming, so I would not consider it being cheating but more a kind of minor exploit.

 

 

Really?

 

Hmm I'll try this.

 

To be honest it sounds like the kind of thing they might patch out, so it would probably be unwise to rely upon it.

[AlanC9]

Bio isn't known for implementing suggestions that fight the basic design intent of the game.

[AshenSugar]

I honestly don't think it does fight the basic design intent.

 

It's not like I'm asking for instant health regeneration, as in DA:2, or a batch of spirit healer spells to be added (much as I'd like them).

 

All I'm really asking for are some optional items, runes, or upgrades that will slowly regenerate health over a period of time when out of combat. I do not believe that this will have any effect upon actual in-game combat whatsoever, nor will it fundamentally change the nature of the game in any meaningful way, save as a small quality of life improvement.

[RMP _]

 

"OMG L2P noob. The game is balanced around lack of health regen, and good players don't need it, use your abilities properly, have proper situational awareness, use the tactical camera. I regularly solo all six High Dragons at once on Nightmare, and the only time my health goes below 99% is when I spend too long browsing lolcats on the other monitor while fighting at the same time. U fail so hard...."

Ha ha, nice! Had to give a thumbs up just for that.

 

 

I started on normal difficulty but after a while, especially after I started outlevelling enemies by 3 or 4 levels, I was sleeping through battles and picking up some lazy habits (lots of basic attacks, never using barrier, etc). So I put it on hard which helped but was still cruising until I got to the Emprise de Lion area, where now I was same level as all the enemies (19) and going through a string of battles that put you up against a giant with 4-5 tempars at the same time. Toughest battles of the game (so far). Rift closing all of a sudden got a lot tougher here too. Couldn't believe how fast Cassandra and Blackwall would lose health and die. They were like rock solid invincible before. I'd finish each battle with 0-2 potions (started with 12), and had to frequently teleport to camp and run all the way back to continue. It was needless time wasting to be sure.

 

I've never been a fan of instant heal potions and have no idea why so many developers balance their games around it. On the verge of death, pop a potion and instantly at full health. It's so cheap and gimicky.

[Xerxes52]

Not a bad idea, maybe a purple class ring that gives something like "0.5% or 1% Max HP regen per second" would work (can't be stacked). Not fast enough to make a difference in a fight, but good enough to "top off" between encounters. Wouldn't really matter during main quests, where supply caches are omnipresent, but out in the wild it would definitely find some use.

[caradoc2000]

How about this:

 

Ring of Invigoration (Unique Ring)

Stats: +1% of Max HP regeneration per second

Acquisition: automatically received upon completion of the main quest Doom Upon All the World

 

Everybody is happy, no?

[Terodil]

Ring of Invigoration (Unique Ring)
Stats: +1% of Max HP regeneration per second for the entire party while out of combat
Acquisition: automatically received upon completion of the main quest Doom Upon All the World

Yes pls.

I like it also because it comes with a trade-off. You can't equip another ring while you're wearing this one.

[AshenSugar]

How about this:

 

Ring of Invigoration (Unique Ring)

Stats: +1% of Max HP regeneration per second

Acquisition: automatically received upon completion of the main quest Doom Upon All the World

 

Everybody is happy, no?

 

I'd be happy with a ring like that, though obviously I'd not want to wait until the main quest is completed, hours and hours and hours into the game. I'd want this while still in the Hinterlands, where it's going to be useful, maybe as a reward for collecting all shards, sealing all rifts etc... that kind of thing, though only one ring in the game would need to replenish health of all members of your party, else you'd need one for each of your party members.

 

And indeed it would be a trade-off. You'd be making a conscious choice to sacrifice some stats or utility in exchange for slow health regen.

[AlanC9]

I honestly don't think it does fight the basic design intent.

 

It's not like I'm asking for instant health regeneration, as in DA:2, or a batch of spirit healer spells to be added (much as I'd like them).

 

All I'm really asking for are some optional items, runes, or upgrades that will slowly regenerate health over a period of time when out of combat. I do not believe that this will have any effect upon actual in-game combat whatsoever, nor will it fundamentally change the nature of the game in any meaningful way, save as a small quality of life improvement.

 

 

 I'm playing some low-level ME1 now, and  I don't find this very  convincing. I don't have the appropriate armor mods yet and probably won't until I get back to the Citadel, and I find that the game plays very differently from how it will play the moment I get my hands on one of those gadgets.

[caradoc2000]

though obviously I'd not want to wait until the main quest is completed

That was kinda my point

 

Any earlier such items would break the design of the game. As pointed out in this thread as well as others, having the ability to always start combat at full health was not the devs intention.

[CorniliuS]

On nightmare after lvl 12-13 you very hard to kill, at 15-16 the only threat is red templars rogues and dragons, higher then 17 you are invincible. And it is not about been good player or ui, you just have to learn mechanics of the game, find good schematics, craft good weapons, have at least 2 party members who not afraid to engage in melee combat. Heal on kill, Fade-Touched Everite, Fade-Touched Obsidian, Fade-Touched Silverite, Fade-Touched Snoufleur Skin – use this and your health and guard will always be at 100%. Forget about another health boosters  if you need them, then you didn't learn the mechanics or crafting.

[DanteYoda]

Unfortunately, this breaks the entire concept of attrition based encounter design.

Which is an even worse mechanic than the unlimited potions we had in the older DA's, its just tedious to hide behind barriers 24/7 (if you have them, Class balance ftw)

 

and i can't tell you how fun it is to run back to camp every hour or so because yet again the AI has guzzled up all of them because they have no tactics what so ever and love standing in front of everything nasty...

 

And if i don't let them guzzle the potions they are laying face down in any real battle we stroll into.

 

By the time i got healing grenades, I was wishing for my unlimited potions back i can tell you...