252 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

Here you go bioware, problem solved... based on reading literally hundreds of responses, and there's been some good ideas suggested, really smart ones really. Hoping that Laidlaw or Weekes is watching and reading from time to time.

1) Make him playable, let our decisions be our own. An NPC or cameo would be very difficult to do, so let us choose. Maybe this would be a lengthy introduction as a second protagonist, maybe it'd be a full game, or a DLC (It'd have to be big and story driven though).

2) Have a new character (a greener warden perhaps) for those who want to leave the warden behind and for those whose warden is dead. Everybody wins, HoF fans and non-HoF fans alike. Those who don't choose to include their HoF can have a letter similar to inquisition.

3) This comes down to dialogue changes like being called the hero of ferelden, and some special dialogue with old companions such as morrigan and leliana and choices we made with them (leliana being furious about fighting at the urn of sacred ashes, etc) versus the "please to meet you" dialogue a new character would get. It'd make both ways to play attractive and help bring back the replayability of dragon age games of old. It's a lot like racial dialogue, really.

3) Give us a set of voice actors to choose from like in inquisition, it's not as if the original hof didn't have a voice actor, it was just very basic. It won't be exact, but for purists, give us a SILENT OPTION as well where we can just choose the dialogue we want for a non-speaking protagonist. You have the subtitles anyway, all you need is a list option versus a dialogue wheel. Me, I'd want a voice. For those who feel a voices actor couldn't get their character right, this would give them an option aside from a new PC.

4) Let us redesign our HoF in the character creator and add 10 years to him/her. Again, it won't be exact, but it's kind of like importing an animated character into a more realistic world. Keep the tattoo options from origins.

5) Above all give us a story. Don't make us fetch quest to the point it overwhelms the core game. The search for the calling could be an incredible tale if told right, involving all the other magisters, the remaining archdemons, brood mothers and the heart of darkspawn territory... maybe even the architect can return, he certainly is the expert on the calling and he sure looks like Corypheus, is he a magister? I'd like to know more. I'd personally love to see the dwarves again (guess darkspawn and dwarves two go hand in hand) but places like Tavinter, Weisshaupt fortress, there's a lot of great places that could fit into the story.

6) You can't give us all our moves, so give us evolutions of them that seem logical eg. you can work a lot of the basic combat stuff into melee combos (flurry etc.). Make the character feel fluid and trained, I think most of us will forgive that. Some won't EVER be happy with any character you bring back, but that's unavoidable, I think most of us though can appreciate an intelligent effort that respects the source material.

Where you take us is upto you. Just don't write one of the most central characters in Dragon Age out of the story, and don't tell his story in a box of text. And there's really no downside here for those who aren't warden fans, and options for those who worry it would be impossible to get it right. Let us make choices, let us choose our motivations, and above all tell a great story with lots of character interaction and dialogue.

Give us the kind of game we expect from bioware, and don't take the easy path and just never have the character appear again or kill him/her off screen.  You can't just write him out of the series, he didn't "ride off into the sunset"... you gave him a mission, and many of us want to see it. It'd give the dragon age keep some real use, and we could interact with past LIs and characters in a much more fullfilling way then second hand information about an absent character.  I for one want to talk to Alistair as his friend, not a new PC he's never met for the 4th time in a row. 

Anyway, that seems like the best way to do it. I get some hate the HoF or fear it can't be done right, but a new PC takes care of that. I get some don't want a voice, well a silent option takes care of that. Above all, a playable warden would let us make our own choices and say what fits with our own character... and while you can't please everyone, I think this would please the vast majority.

Thanks Bioware, hope you're listening. Don't just write the HoF out of the story. That's a poor end for any character, especially one that so many loved.

PS - Tactics and attribute points, even if they're optional, we've missed them a lot.

[AresKeith]

*let it go gif*

[Hellion Rex]

*let it go gif*

[In Exile]

Or listen to the hundreds of other responses that have asked for the opposite.

[SofaJockey]

Ha.

No.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I wish they hadn't brought Hawke back, and I'm glad to hear they have no plans to bring the Warden back.

 

Saying, "here's how you can give me what I want and it works for everyone," is never going to actually work for everyone. The resources required to implement all of that would result in a watered-down game. It would be far better to leave the Warden behind.

 

At this point, it would be better to leave most of the characters behind, because the effort required to accommodate characters with multiple fates in a game as complex as Dragon Age is far more than the results are worth.

[Shevy]

I know I am no fun at parties, but: Never going to happen. They won't design a story-heavy DLC or even an entire game with two different protagonists to choose from. Too much work, not enough yield. Economically not bearable.

 

Aside from this: I absolutely love my Warden but being a muted protagonist was one of the main reasons to do so. I don't want so see her ever being voiced, even when playable. So for me, while you put a good amount of thought into your suggestion, the "problem" is not solved. I know it's hard to let the loved ones go, but a physical appearance will cause more trouble than pleasure. It is incredibly difficult to reach one's imagination of the inclusion - to reach everyone's imagination? Impossible.

[SofaJockey]

At this point, it would be better to leave most of the characters behind...

 

Just Dorian and Lace...

(the rest can be new ...  )

[Saphiron123]

Or listen to the hundreds of other responses that have asked for the opposite.

Most of which is that they couldn't do it... seriously, read how many people just think they couldn't do it justice. I know you think bioware killed the warden in awakening and you always hated the idea of identifying with the wardens at all, but you want to go back on canon and there's nothing in the world they could do to please you. I think selfish motivations, sort of a "I'm doing this for me" mentality would cover off anyone else who feels that way, but you'd be happy with nothing short of a retcon.

And again, see number 2. A new PC is the only thing you'd be happy with, so make a new PC who isn't the HoF and your LI can get a letter similar to DAI.

The key is, if you elect not to use the warden, there's no downside here for you, and if you ever make a new one that you don't feel was railroaded into joining the wardens (despite the whole being dead thing without them) you'd then have an option to bring that character back.

Not looking to rehash all that, it's been done and I see where you're coming from, but it certainly wouldn't hurt you, and it'd please many others, and since they are never going to retcon awakening or the events after ostagar, you require a new PC. They should offer you that, and you can enjoy the game sans HoF the way you want it.

Everybody wins. I'm not trying to exclude you in any way. 

If you simply hate the wardens in general, they're part of the world, and the darkspawn are the big threat, so they'll likely return at some point. Hopefully the story will be well written and you'll enjoy it.

[Shevy]

Just Dorian and Lace...

(the rest can be new ...  )

Personally, I think BioWare shouldn't use soo many old NPCs or even companions. It lessens the scale of the world. Sure, some are prominent due to former actions. But having a huge amount of them playing a part in "the newest ****"? No, never been a fan of.

 

Lace Harding would work because her background, personality etc. wasn't really explored in DA:I. That's ok for me.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

For once, I'm actually hapy to see this gif here.

 

The Warden is my favorite Bioware protagonist ever and even I don't want him back. Just give people a happy Warden ending where he/she lives their life in peace with their LI (or alone if they don't have one) and be done with it.

[Saphiron123]

I wish they hadn't brought Hawke back, and I'm glad to hear they have no plans to bring the Warden back.

 

And saying, "here's how you can give me what I want and it works for everyone," is never going to actually work for everyone. The resources required to implement all of that would result in a watered-down game. It would be far better to leave the Warden behind.

 

At this point, it would be better to leave most of the characters behind, because the effort required to accommodate characters with multiple fates in a game as complex as Dragon Age is far more than the results are worth.

Hence the new PC for dead wardens and people who don't want an HoF. Your way excludes anybody who wants to see the warden again, my way excludes nobody. 

And again, see 3) It's just dialogue differences when you get down to it. If they can't do that, then they can't do multiple races because the racial dialogue should be too much for them. When all is said and done, it's lines of script. And if that, a silent option, and having personal control wouldn't be enough to make you think bioware could pull it off... well, your faith in them as writers is already pretty much gone anyway, no?

If you really want to leave all the characters and decisions behind, you might as well play a new series... that is sort of what you're proposing.

[Saphiron123]

For once, I'm actually to see this gif here.

 

The Warden is my favorite Bioware protagonist ever and even I don't want him back. Just give people a happy Warden ending where he/she lives their life in peace with their LI (or alone if they don't have one) and be done with it.

So write out the love interests too, then? A lot of people would be gone over that. Meanwhile the LIs are involved with the world and the warden has a mission, so no sunset is on the table... they had that, then they brought him back in a codex entry.

They could have let the warden rest, instead they gave him a more interesting mission then they gave the inquisitor. Kind of the problem, really.

[Saphiron123]

I know I am no fun at parties, but: Never going to happen. They won't design a story-heavy DLC or even an entire game with two different protagonists to choose from. Too much work, not enough yield. Economically not bearable.

 

Aside from this: I absolutely love my Warden but being a muted protagonist was one of the main reasons to do so. I don't want so see her ever being voiced, even when playable. So for me, while you put a good amount of thought into your suggestion, the "problem" is not solved. I know it's hard to let the loved ones go, but a physical appearance will cause more trouble than pleasure. It is incredibly difficult to reach one's imagination of the inclusion - to reach everyone's imagination? Impossible.

Let's be honest, it's the same protagonist with the same VA selection, just with different dialogue. And the silent option would cover that, in fact a silent option should be in EVERY dragon age game. 

And no, nobody can please everyone everywhere, but if that was the standard we had to meet the entire world would ground to a halt. As you said, impossible. Doesn't mean i wish there was no mass effect 2, or dark souls 2, or GTA V, or bloodborne, or total war, or second movie in a series.

By that standard, human entertainment would grind to a halt. Still, that doesn't mean they couldn't do an excellent job with respect for the source material.

[AppalachianApex]

The Warden had his/her game. Her/his time in the spotlight is concluded and any attempt to bring the 'character' back in any meaningful capacity will inevitably be a disappointment because the Warden was not a character outside of what each individual player decided his or her Warden would be.

[Captain Wiseass]

Hey, what do they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results again?

[dreamgazer]

At this point, I kinda want to see BioWare do this just to see the vast flood of people imploding over the inevitable railroading and misrepresentation of their Wardens.

Spoiler

But no, seriously, let's not do this.

[Shevy]

Let's be honest, it's the same protagonist with the same VA selection, just with different dialogue. And the silent option would cover that, in fact a silent option should be in EVERY dragon age game. 

And no, nobody can please everyone everywhere, but if that was the standard we had to meet the entire world would ground to a halt. As you said, impossible. Doesn't mean i wish there was no mass effect 2, or dark souls 2, or GTA V, or bloodborne, or total war, or second movie in a series.

By that standard, human entertainment would grind to a halt. Still, that doesn't mean they couldn't do an excellent job with respect for the source material.

Actually, for a lot of games and movies I would've been grateful if they had not made a sequel. Since it's business after all and successfull entries are going to get a sequel most of the time, reasonable or not, I have to live with this.

 

So, only slight dialogue changes? What is the point of having the HoF then? Pure nostalgia? It won't be the same if he is going to be an exchangeable protagonist. With a lot of dialogue changes between HoF and "new Warden" (silent won't be included because it needs different game designs) the game will either be short or watered down. As I said before, video game production is business in the first line.

[AlanC9]

I thought we were still working on the "why." Isn't it a bit early to get to "how"?

[Saphiron123]

Hey, what do they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results again?

Doesn't mean we should give up. There's more warden threads now then ever before, hell my bring back the warden thread is over 500 replies (pretty much divided between hell yes and bioware will screw it up) and the one about Weekes comments is about the same. Plus another 100 threads in the past few months.

Maybe bioware isn't listening, but honestly the only way you get nowhere is to never speak your mind. And the points above are the best way I can see based on the ideas people have posted to satisfy both warden fans and people who think it can't be done right. 

It's a fair thread, no reason to dump on others.
 

 

I thought we were still working on the "why." Isn't it a bit early to get to "how"?

 

If the how at least tries to cover both camps of people who want to see the warden and worry it'll be screwed up, I think it makes sense. Why not? 

Beats a "Hey, screw you guys because I don't want to see the warden" approach that many seem to take up. There's no downside to the ideas people posted for people who want a new PC, I just collected the best into one spot.

[Leo]

Hey, what do they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results again?

 

Insanity.

 

They should bring back the Warden, and then kill him/her off right away and have all the Dragon Age games star either the Inquisitor or Hawke instead.

[In Exile]

Most of which is that they couldn't do it... seriously, read how many people just think they couldn't do it justice. I know you think bioware killed the warden in awakening and you always hated the idea of identifying with the wardens at all, but you want to go back on canon and there's nothing in the world they could do to please you. I think selfish motivations, sort of a "I'm doing this for me" mentality would cover off anyone else who feels that way, but you'd be happy with nothing short of a retcon.

And again, see number 2. A new PC is the only thing you'd be happy with, so make a new PC who isn't the HoF and your LI can get a letter similar to DAI.

The key is, if you elect not to use the warden, there's no downside here for you, and if you ever make a new one that you don't feel was railroaded into joining the wardens (despite the whole being dead thing without them) you'd then have an option to bring that character back.

Not looking to rehash all that, it's been done and I see where you're coming from, but it certainly wouldn't hurt you, and it'd please many others, and since they are never going to retcon awakening or the events after ostagar, you require a new PC. They should offer you that, and you can enjoy the game sans HoF the way you want it.

Everybody wins. I'm not trying to exclude you in any way.

If you simply hate the wardens in general, they're part of the world, and the darkspawn are the big threat, so they'll likely return at some point. Hopefully the story will be well written and you'll enjoy it.

Firstly, this is clearly a post (your OP) focused on selfish motivations: your desire to see the character you played return. To talk about selfiness in this context is silly - any request for a feature is selfish. That it happens to benefit others with identical tastes doesn't change that part of it.

There is a huge downside with your idea: the absolute waste of resources going to realise your HOF return, going to the incredibly expensive VO cost, the physical storage related issues (VO uses up a huge and not of disk space).

There is the further cost of a plot that has callbacks and that continues to draw back NPCs from DAO that should have been left well enough alone.

That's putting aside concerns related to the quality of the story or debates about whether your ideas are actually consistent with the lore, which of course I disagree with entirely.

And I never said I didn't want the HOF back. I said I don't want YOUR gof

[In Exile]

Most of which is that they couldn't do it... seriously, read how many people just think they couldn't do it justice. I know you think bioware killed the warden in awakening and you always hated the idea of identifying with the wardens at all, but you want to go back on canon and there's nothing in the world they could do to please you. I think selfish motivations, sort of a "I'm doing this for me" mentality would cover off anyone else who feels that way, but you'd be happy with nothing short of a retcon.

And again, see number 2. A new PC is the only thing you'd be happy with, so make a new PC who isn't the HoF and your LI can get a letter similar to DAI.

The key is, if you elect not to use the warden, there's no downside here for you, and if you ever make a new one that you don't feel was railroaded into joining the wardens (despite the whole being dead thing without them) you'd then have an option to bring that character back.

Not looking to rehash all that, it's been done and I see where you're coming from, but it certainly wouldn't hurt you, and it'd please many others, and since they are never going to retcon awakening or the events after ostagar, you require a new PC. They should offer you that, and you can enjoy the game sans HoF the way you want it.

Everybody wins. I'm not trying to exclude you in any way.

If you simply hate the wardens in general, they're part of the world, and the darkspawn are the big threat, so they'll likely return at some point. Hopefully the story will be well written and you'll enjoy it.

Firstly, this is clearly a post (your OP) focused on selfish motivations: your desire to see the character you played return. To talk about selfiness in this context is silly - any request for a feature is selfish. That it happens to benefit others with identical tastes doesn't change that part of it.

There is a huge downside with your idea: the absolute waste of resources going to realise your HOF return, going to the incredibly expensive VO cost, the physical storage related issues (VO uses up a huge and not of disk space).

There is the further cost of a plot that has callbacks and that continues to draw back NPCs from DAO that should have been left well enough alone.

That's putting aside concerns related to the quality of the story or debates about whether your ideas are actually consistent with the lore, which of course I disagree with entirely.

And I never said I didn't want the HOF back. I said I don't want YOUR HOF. If they wanted to bring back my anti-Warden mage I'd be happy play it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Hence the new PC for dead wardens and people who don't want an HoF. Your way excludes anybody who wants to see the warden again, my way excludes nobody. 

 

It excludes everyone who doesn't want a game watered down by resources expended to accommodate multiple protagonist characters.

 

If you really want to leave all the characters and decisions behind, you might as well play a new series... that is sort of what you're proposing.

 

I'm not proposing anything of the sort. They don't have to use the Warden again for it to be a Dragon Age game. Dragon Age is a setting, not the Warden.

 

 

3) It's just dialogue differences when you get down to it. If they can't do that, then they can't do multiple races because the racial dialogue should be too much for them. When all is said and done, it's lines of script. And if that, a silent option, and having personal control wouldn't be enough to make you think bioware could pull it off... well, your faith in them as writers is already pretty much gone anyway, no?

 

You are vastly oversimplifying, and clearly don't know what is involved in video game creation. You also don't know enough about my opinions to be telling me what I think of the writers and what they should do. You are rephrasing all disagreement in order to suit your position.

[Captain Wiseass]

There's more warden threads now then ever before,

The vast majority of them started by you. Think about that for a second.

 

the only way you get nowhere is to never speak your mind

 

Trust me on this: There are many ways to get nowhere.