112 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

That's pretty much a contradiction in terms. Shepard is human. With his/her human form destroyed, Shepard is dead and what's left is a program that tries to copy his/her thoughts.

 

[RatThing]

 

"This video isn't available in your country"  is all I see . (Not that I don't know how to watch it anyways).

[GalacticWolf5]

That's pretty much a contradiction in terms.

 

Not really.

 

Shepard is human.

 

Organic Shepard = Shepard

 

Synthetic Shepard = Shepard

 

Species does not define who you are. Let's say I take the mind of a Human called Bob and put it in a Drell's body. Is it still Bob? Yes, but in a different body.

 

With his/her human form destroyed, Shepard is dead and what's left is a program that tries to copy his/her thoughts.

 

Only Shepard's corporeal form is dead. His mind becomes an ''A.I.''(for the lack of a better term). The Catalyst says it and, in the epilogue, Shepard says many things that also indicate he is not a copy of Shepard.

 

Spoiler

''Eternal. Infinite. Immortal. The man I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them. And only now do I undersant the full extent of his sacrifice. Through his death, I was created. Through my birth, his thoughts are freed. They guide me now, give me reason, direction. Just as he gave direction to the ones who followed him, the ones who helped him achieve his purpose. Now my purpose. To give the many hope for a future. To ensure that all have a voice in their future. The man I was knew that he could only achieve this by becoming something greater. There is power in control. There is wisdom in harnessing the strenghts of your enemy. I will rebuild what the many have lost. I will create a future with limitless possibilities. I will protect and sustain. I will act as a guardian for the many. And throughout it all, I will never forget. I will remember the ones who sacrificed themselves so that the many could survive. And I will watch over the ones who live on. Those who carry the memory of the man I once was. The man who gave up his life to become the one who could save the many.''

 

Now you're probably thinking: ''He keeps talking of pre-Control Shep as if he was another person''? That's because he's changed. It's just a figure of speech. Let's take an example from Elena Gilbert from The Vampire Diaries after she becomes a Vampire:

 

Spoiler

Go to 1:26 https://www.youtube....h?v=2zwYWQvKLs0

 

They both use the same figure of speech to describe how they've changed.

 

Can you even imagine becoming an immortal ''A.I.'' and gaining access to so much knowledge of the galaxy/universe and existing in a realm of existence so far beyond our own? This would completly change your vision of the world. Think of it like Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen series.

 

Post-Control Shep is not just a copy. He is still Shepard, he's very changed, but he's still Shepard.

[RatThing]

Species does not define who you are. Let's say I take the mind of a Human called Bob and put it in a Drell's body. Is it still Bob? Yes, but in a different body.

 

 

Ugh, what a load of nonsense. The human body isn't just a shell, it' s biological system, the brain, the neurons, the hormones etc. etc. define a person. If the body is gone, the person is gone. 

 

 

Only Shepard's corporeal form is dead. His mind becomes an ''A.I.''(for the lack of a better term). The Catalyst says it and, in the epilogue, Shepard says many things that also indicate he is not a copy of Shepard.

 

Spoiler

''Eternal. Infinite. Immortal. The man I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them. And only now do I undersant the full extent of his sacrifice. Through his death, I was created. Through my birth, his thoughts are freed. They guide me now, give me reason, direction. Just as he gave direction to the ones who followed him, the ones who helped him achieve his purpose. Now my purpose. To give the many hope for a future. To ensure that all have a voice in their future. The man I was knew that he could only achieve this by becoming something greater. There is power in control. There is wisdom in harnessing the strenghts of your enemy. I will rebuild what the many have lost. I will create a future with limitless possibilities. I will protect and sustain. I will act as a guardian for the many. And throughout it all, I will never forget. I will remember the ones who sacrificed themselves so that the many could survive. And I will watch over the ones who live on. Those who carry the memory of the man I once was. The man who gave up his life to become the one who could save the many.''

 

Now you're probably thinking: ''He keeps talking of pre-Control Shep as if he was another person''? That's because he's changed. It's just a figure of speech. Let's take an example from Elena Gilbert from The Vampire Diaries after she becomes a Vampire:

 

Spoiler

Go to 1:26 https://www.youtube....h?v=2zwYWQvKLs0

 

They both use the same figure of speech to describe how they've changed.

 

Can you even imagine becoming an immortal ''A.I.'' and gaining access to so much knowledge of the galaxy/universe and existing in a realm of existence so far beyond our own? This would completly change your vision of the world. Think of it like Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen series.

 

Post-Control Shep is not just a copy. He is still Shepard, he's very changed, but he's still Shepard.

 

Quote the game as much as you like. I already said it doesn't matter to me. This is Sci Fi, not Fantasy, so I'm not willing to accept transmigration of souls or spirit possession as a thing. Plus "through his/her death I was created" doesn't really sound like just a change for me. 

[Iakus]

Not really.

 

 

Organic Shepard = Shepard

 

Synthetic Shepard = Shepard

 

Species does not define who you are. Let's say I take the mind of a Human called Bob and put it in a Drell's body. Is it still Bob? Yes, but in a different body.

 

A drell has different senses than a human.  Different body chemistry.  Different perspective.  The same can be said of all species.  Asari live for a thousand years or more, and have a very different perspective on teh galaxy and relationships than other species, for example.  

 

Shepard in another body may still be Shepard, but it would be a different Shepard.  Same as synthetic Shepard, with no squishy human hormones, no physical connection to humanity, Notice how EDI struggled to understand humanity, even as she was surrounded by them?

[SwobyJ]

I shall call him Advent.

 

And Shepard was a Reaper. The End.

 

#MassShiftRumor

[Display Name Owner]

It's ages since I played Human Revolution but IIRC none of the endings really preclude the world becoming what it is in the later-set games, just how it's gone about. I could be remembering this completely wrong... But yeah, DXHR was a prequel, which isn't the case with ME3, so DXHR had to gel with the world of the earlier games, whereas ME3 kind of did it's thing with the wildly different galaxy states and now the sequel has to handle that however it's going to.

[SwobyJ]

"Was" a Reaper? What do you mean?

 

Joke based off this

 

 

But you know my general ideas on this stuff, Mass Shift, virtual existence, yadda yadda.

 

EDIT: Hahahaha I love this pic.

[GalacticWolf5]

Ugh, what a load of nonsense. The human body isn't just a shell, it' s biological system, the brain, the neurons, the hormones etc. etc. define a person. If the body is gone, the person is gone. 

 

Quote the game as much as you like. I already said it doesn't matter to me. This is Sci Fi, not Fantasy, so I'm not willing to accept transmigration of souls or spirit possession as a thing. Plus "through his/her death I was created" doesn't really sound like just a change for me. 

 

Ever heard of the Virtual Aliens?

 

''The virtual aliens are a race of some one billion individuals who downloaded their minds into a virtual world aboard a starship long ago to avoid the destruction of their civilization. As of 2185 CE, the virtual aliens have established diplomatic contact with the Citadel Council in order to secure a new power source for the systems that maintain their virtual world. The aliens' name for themselves is currently unknown.

 

All virtual aliens do not currently have physical bodies of their own. To facilitate communication with the Citadel Council, the virtual aliens showed that they are capable of swapping consciousnesses with other sentient beings and can control their bodies.'' See Mass Effect Wikia for more info.

 

I rest my case.

[SwobyJ]

I don't see how that's proof of anything, Wolf. 

 

They're certainly technology, and the Mass Effect world will treat them as characters if we ever meet them, but players can still decide what they want about them.

 

Even from 'downloaded their minds', that's already a supposition. Do minds download? Well code that acts as though it thinks it is alive may think this, but we don't need to.

 

"Quote the game as much as you like. I already said it doesn't matter to me. This is Sci Fi, not Fantasy, so I'm not willing to accept transmigration of souls or spirit possession as a thing."

 

For the record I'm transhumanist and all about nanite uploading XD

[The Gman707]

Human revelution is an amazing game. Probably in my top 5 games on 360. (along with halo, ME, bayonetta and street fighter. its also one of the first games i bought for the wii u (along with mass effect) it's not got the same depth of consequence as mass effect and the action is slower paced but i think it's inevitable that any game of a similar vein as yours that is released withi in a certain time before your own will inform your own to some extent

[GalacticWolf5]

I don't see how that's proof of anything, Wolf. 

 

They're certainly technology, and the Mass Effect world will treat them as characters if we ever meet them, but players can still decide what they want about them.

 

Even from 'downloaded their minds', that's already a supposition. Do minds download? Well code that acts as though it thinks it is alive may think this, but we don't need to.

 

If they are able to switch consciousness with Organics afterwards, doesn't that prove that minds can be downloaded (in the MEU) and that the virtual aliens are the same as before they became virtual? They just don't have their own physical bodies. They are able to go back into any Organic body and perfectly control them, meanwhile the other person goes into the virtual world. They literally switch their minds.

[SwobyJ]

If they are able to switch consciousness with Organics afterwards, doesn't that prove that minds can be downloaded (in the MEU) and that the virtual aliens are the same as before they became virtual? They just don't have their own physical bodies. They are able to go back into any Organic body and perfectly control them, meanwhile the other person goes into the virtual world. They literally switch their minds.

 

Or they're a lot of data being transferred and always different data.

 

Look, I actually agree with you! I just think the MEU always leaves an 'out' for those who don't agree. 

[GalacticWolf5]

I don't really care if they're alive or not. That just gives me a reason to personalize them and call them assholes. Instead of robots. Assholes who deserve to die. 

 

If I could get away with it, I'd kill a lot of sentient people.. synthetic or otherwise. Not just Shepard, but me. I just don't want to go to jail.

 

[txgoldrush]

For whatever it's worth, ME3's ending (especially the vanilla ending) more closely parallels the ending of the original Deus Ex than it does DX:HR. It's pretty easy to conjecture that the synthesis ending is just a stand-in for Deus Ex's Helios ending, that destroy is a stand-in for the Tracer Tong ending, and that the control ending is a proxy for the Morgan Everett/Illuminati ending.

 

If you haven't played the original Deus Ex, then probably none of that means much to you, but unfortunately it's already too late here for me to explain the whole plot of the game in this post. Besides, if there is such a thing as video game 'literacy,' then having played the original Deus Ex is very likely a requirement for it, so go play.

No it really doesn't. The synthesis ME3 ending actually parallel's the Invisible War Helios/JC ending than it does the first games Helios ending and comparing destroy to the New Dark Age ending is a stretch other than low EMS variations.

 

And if the original idea of Human Revolution's ending was done, it would definitely be similar to ME3's ending, very similar. Here is how. Adam was supposed to be critically injured by the destruction of Hyron and Zhao's death. He would then have to crawl with Eliza by his side while she explains the choices to him while Taggert, Sarif, and Darrow represents the choices like Andersen and TIM do in ME3. But this was scrapped.

 

 

To the OP and anyone else who hasn't played the original Deus Ex, play it, it is a true masterpiece of gaming along with System Shock 2 , oh I could give you a very long list of 'must plays' but back OT....

 

Do feel that the A, B, C ending worked well in Deus Ex - remember that being the first time you had any say in the ending - and slotted in nicely with the themes of HR (was twice the game I was expecting but do not mention Teeftanic to me if you would be so kind); but personally feel the A, B C approach didn't fit well with the overall narrative in ME but that's my subjective opinion.  It just didn't feel like a natural outcome to the journey.

 

As for canon ending/beginning re Deus Ex, have a look at Deus Ex:Invisible War and how they accounted for the choices in Deus Ex, it was the best they could do at the time, but it put you on the wrong side of the game from the outset (and it went downhill from then....apart from a few really good moments)

 

No, its overrated. The first Deus Ex has an excellent concept, but lackluster and frustrating in execution. And the story is definitely the weakest in the series, even Invisible War had a better story. The first story is all over the place with flat one dimensional characters with a very shallow villain.

 

And ME3's ending fit with the themes of the series perfectly. There is no free will, lives are impacted by the decisions of others, always.

[God]

goldrush is back! And he's back to proclaiming how his interpretation alone is valid!

 

Yay!

[Ithurael]

Let the Buzzing commence!!

[angol fear]

goldrush is back! And he's back to proclaiming how his interpretation alone is valid!

 

Yay!

 

Actually he has never said that. And he is not the only one to read the way he reads Mass Effect. Or maybe, just like you've said once, you think that we are all goldrush with different pseudo. But yes, there's a lot of invalid interpretation on this forum.

[Iakus]

Actually he has never said that. And he is not the only one to read the way he reads Mass Effect. Or maybe, just like you've said once, you think that we are all goldrush with different pseudo. But yes, there's a lot of invalid interpretation on this forum.

 

I think this kinda proves the point.

 

"My interpretation=right"

"Your interpretatioon=wrong"

[God]

I think this kinda proves the point.

 

"My interpretation=right"

"Your interpretatioon=wrong"

 

For somethings, this holds true.

 

For this? It involves two separate franchises and a comparison to each other.

 

So... indeed. It proves the point here.

 

This line of thinking that is being advocated by angol fear and goldrush is false.

[txgoldrush]

Hey Liara's skin is colored red, my interpretation must be right......lol

 

Face it, not everything is open for interpretation.

 

Please, after three years, people still don't get ME3, so we get simple populist stories like DAI that take no risks.