69 réponses à ce sujet

[CptPatch]

Alistair -_ whiny, pathetic, whiny, moronic, whiny
Morrigan -- arrogant, demeaning, arrogant, snide, arrogant, self-obsessed, arrogant
Leliana -- illusions of touched by the Maker, near-fanatic religious freak
Sten -- Overbearing authoritarian with a disdain for any culture not his own
Dog -- yappy and mindlessly dedicated  (If it wasn't for the fact he's so good at Fetch....)
Wynne -- demeaning know-it-all that insists that she is the only one that knows the Right Way to do things
Oghren -- drunkard, obscene, drunkard, gross, drunkard, brain the size of a peanut
Zevran -- amoral sociopath willing to kill anybody as qualm-free as killing bugs
Shale -- sarcastic, snide, sarcastic, overbearing Golem Supremecist
SPOILER -- _Any_ means justifies the ends; if anyone gets in your way, SOP is to kill them; "Only _I_ know what's best."

With assistants like these, the player has a strong motivation towards, "If you want something done right, do it yourself."

Modifié par CptPatch, 27 janvier 2010 - 05:23 .

[Lord Phoebus]

I agree and they grate on you the more you play the game. They aren't as annoying as the ME companions, but their charm does start to wear thin. Heck Alistair, Wynne and Dog are the only companions I would feel safe sharing a camp with and even then I would want them all muzzled. Just do what I do, turn on the subtitles, kill the volume and esc. through the convos with them. I find this game is more fun when you replace the soundtrack with Darkside of the Moon.

[wwwwowwww]

Irritating to you maybe, but not all are irritating to me.



Alistair - Sounds a lot like the typical 17-18 year old

Morrigan - May be arrogant, but the world is filled with arrogant people, you learn to deal with them

Leliana - Sweet and alluring, yeah she is religious, but so are a lot of normal people

Sten - Yep he's a bit sheltered and over bearing, but damn he's funny

Dog - ummmmmm a typical dog save smarter

Wynne - Sounds a lot like an older wiser person

Oghren - Typical Dwarf

Zevran - Enjoys life to the fullest and doesn't take too much seriously.

Shale - Hilarious



There is a great mixture of personalities within the group. What are you wanting? A bunch of mindless drones that do and say everything you say with no complaints?

[ReubenLiew]

Clearly because the developers dislike you, and think you stink.

[Valsung]

I want 100 Morrigans and 100 Shales. They're the only two I can handle.

[Lord Phoebus]

wwwwowwww wrote...

There is a great mixture of personalities within the group. What are you wanting? A bunch of mindless drones that do and say everything you say with no complaints?

I did enjoy the banter between my Icewind Dale II companions quite a bit.  Having said that, I would like some more professionalism and fewer psychopaths and crazies in the party.  I'm getting tired of being the camp therapist and factotum in these games.

[wwwwowwww]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

There is a great mixture of personalities within the group. What are you wanting? A bunch of mindless drones that do and say everything you say with no complaints?

I did enjoy the banter between my Icewind Dale II companions quite a bit.  Having said that, I would like some more professionalism and fewer psychopaths and crazies in the party.  I'm getting tired of being the camp therapist and factotum in these games.

Proffesionalism? They are adventurers not merchants. You don't have to be camp therapist, just about every convo has the "I don't have time for this" or "this is not my problem" option

[Xalena]

I had all companions at 100% friendly+love interest in the end except Sten which was at 95% (friendly), done his personal quest and Oghren who was around 80% or something can't remember+done his personal quest, I recruited him later in game and so couldn't find any more gifts for him which would make his approval very high. But ye I agree companions are abit irritating. Often before I would talk with someone, I would save game before so I don't get dissaproval , aswell I knew where on which location and situation some members will dissaproval so i didn't take them with me. Yea call it a cheating but no other way ^^

Modifié par Xalena, 27 janvier 2010 - 06:38 .

[wwwwowwww]

Xalena wrote...

I had all companions at 100% friendly+love interest in the end except Sten which was at 95% (friendly), done his personal quest and Oghren who was around 80% or something can't remember+done his personal quest, I recruited him later in game and so couldn't find any more gifts for him which would make his approval very high. But ye I agree companions are abit irritating. Often before I would talk with someone I would save game before so I don't get dissaproval , aswell I knew where on which location and situation some members will dissaproval so i didn't take them with me. Yea call it a cheating but no other way ^^

Please don't take this the wrong way, but...........

I could care less what people, including friends, think about me in real life, why the hell would I care what video game characters think?
I mean I am who I am, either like it or don't like it, but I'm not trying to please anyone.
 
Why do you feel the need to get everyones approval as high as possible? 

[Lord Phoebus]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Lord Phoebus wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

There is a great mixture of personalities within the group. What are you wanting? A bunch of mindless drones that do and say everything you say with no complaints?

I did enjoy the banter between my Icewind Dale II companions quite a bit.  Having said that, I would like some more professionalism and fewer psychopaths and crazies in the party.  I'm getting tired of being the camp therapist and factotum in these games.

Proffesionalism? They are adventurers not merchants. You don't have to be camp therapist, just about every convo has the "I don't have time for this" or "this is not my problem" option

With the exception of Morrigan and Dog they're all supposed to be martial proffesionals of one kind or another.  Alistair was trained to be a templar, he didn't take his final vows, but he doesn't act like a man who spent a decade being turned into a killing machine.  Zevran is a trained assassin.  Sten and Oghren are professional soldiers.  Leliana is an experienced spy.  Shale probably was a soldier before she became a golem.  Wynne is a very experienced circle mage.  They should all be used to following orders and holding their tongues, but Sten is the only one who does that.

[Xalena]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but...........

I could care less what people, including friends, think about me in real life, why the hell would I care what video game characters think?
I mean I am who I am, either like it or don't like it, but I'm not trying to please anyone.
 
Why do you feel the need to get everyones approval as high as possible?

Hehe because I wanted "perfect" playtrough with everything completed and acomplished. I wanted aswell to meet my companions better since my first playtrough was pretty shallow. Wanted aswell to have nice endings and maybe this how I treated them, maybe that will reflect in expansion and in future continuations and bring something good and usefull maybe. Who knows? since this is game about choices, decision and consequences. Just see this gaining loyalty system in Mass Effect 2 and how that ends It gave me to think abit aswell haha. That is why I felt need.

Modifié par Xalena, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:06 .

[wwwwowwww]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

Lord Phoebus wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

There is a great mixture of personalities within the group. What are you wanting? A bunch of mindless drones that do and say everything you say with no complaints?

I did enjoy the banter between my Icewind Dale II companions quite a bit.  Having said that, I would like some more professionalism and fewer psychopaths and crazies in the party.  I'm getting tired of being the camp therapist and factotum in these games.

Proffesionalism? They are adventurers not merchants. You don't have to be camp therapist, just about every convo has the "I don't have time for this" or "this is not my problem" option

With the exception of Morrigan and Dog they're all supposed to be martial proffesionals of one kind or another.  Alistair was trained to be a templar, he didn't take his final vows, but he doesn't act like a man who spent a decade being turned into a killing machine.  Zevran is a trained assassin.  Sten and Oghren are professional soldiers.  Leliana is an experienced spy.  Shale probably was a soldier before she became a golem.  Wynne is a very experienced circle mage.  They should all be used to following orders and holding their tongues, but Sten is the only one who does that.

Alistair is still quite young and spent a lot of time in classes, and apparantly a lot of time having pillow fights. I put him in the equivlant of a high school kid in the ROTC program, that's about it.

Zevran is a trained assassin yes, but assassins by nature are loners and don't exactly take orders (in the sense you speak of) well, most assassinations aren't done in the darkness with all seriousness but instead they gain your trust through charisma and character then hit you when you are at your most vulnerable. So his personality is actually quite fitting.

Same can be said for Leliana, bards get by on charm and wit, making people feel comfortable. They aren't standing in lines like good little soldiers. Just because she took direction from a mentor doesn't mean they take orders well.

Shale may have been a soldier, but decades of being a golem changes ones outlook on life I'd think.

Wynne is a mage, again just because she has someone above her doesn't mean she followed his every word as she was not a soldier either. She was simply a member of the circle in which she was forced to be in.

Also as far as I could tell I didn't enlist any of them, they were there voluntarily which meant they didn't have to follow my every order or agree with my every decision they are their own people. If I was in a battle they did what I told them to do, outside the battle they had their own opinions and views, just like normal soldiers do.

[wwwwowwww]

Xalena wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but...........

I could care less what people, including friends, think about me in real life, why the hell would I care what video game characters think?
I mean I am who I am, either like it or don't like it, but I'm not trying to please anyone.
 
Why do you feel the need to get everyones approval as high as possible?

Hehe because I wanted "perfect" playtrough with everything completed and acomplished. I wanted aswell meet my companions better since my playtrough was pretty shallow. Wanted aswell to have nice endings and maybe this how I treated them, maybe that will reflect in expansion and in future continuations and bring something good and usefull maybe. Who knows?

Fair enough, and thanks for not taking it the wrong way, kind of hard to express certain things when writing them down.

[Xalena]

*edited abit my previous post*

[wby87]

To OP: I bet you voted for Loghain.

[CptPatch]

wwwwowwww wrote...
Please don't take this the wrong way, but...........

I could care less what people, including friends, think about me in real life, why the hell would I care what video game characters think?
I mean I am who I am, either like it or don't like it, but I'm not trying to please anyone.
 
Why do you feel the need to get everyones approval as high as possible?

Zev?  Is that you?  You look different, but it certainly _sounds_ like you!  You never mentioned that you were also a master of disguise!

[EverlastingFantasy]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Irritating to you maybe, but not all are irritating to me.

Alistair - Sounds a lot like the typical 17-18 year old
Morrigan - May be arrogant, but the world is filled with arrogant people, you learn to deal with them
Leliana - Sweet and alluring, yeah she is religious, but so are a lot of normal people
Sten - Yep he's a bit sheltered and over bearing, but damn he's funny
Dog - ummmmmm a typical dog save smarter
Wynne - Sounds a lot like an older wiser person
Oghren - Typical Dwarf
Zevran - Enjoys life to the fullest and doesn't take too much seriously.
Shale - Hilarious

There is a great mixture of personalities within the group. What are you wanting? A bunch of mindless drones that do and say everything you say with no complaints?

I agree

[Lord Phoebus]

wwwwowwww wrote...
Alistair is still quite young and spent a lot of time in classes, and apparantly a lot of time having pillow fights. I put him in the equivlant of a high school kid in the ROTC program, that's about it.

I believe Alistair is supposed to be in his mid twenties.  Also his training is 10 to 12 years of 12th century military training.  It's more like samurai, janissary training than ROTC.  He's also fought with the Grey Wardens for over a year.  He should be far more seasoned than you give him credit for.

Zevran is a trained assassin yes, but assassins by nature are loners and don't exactly take orders (in the sense you speak of) well, most assassinations aren't done in the darkness with all seriousness but instead they gain your trust through charisma and character then hit you when you are at your most vulnerable. So his personality is actually quite fitting.

I think you're thinking modern assassin as opposed to medieval assassin.  He'll be more the catch him alone while traveling or hunting assassin than the James Bond assassin.  If he's close enough to talk to you, he's close enough to poison you or stick a knife in your jugular.  He doesn't need to gain your trust.  By his own admission he should be dead several times over for his sloppy behaviour.

Same can be said for Leliana, bards get by on charm and wit, making people feel comfortable. They aren't standing in lines like good little soldiers. Just because she took direction from a mentor doesn't mean they take orders well.

Perhaps, but she's also a loon.  If she wasn't the only party member that's set up to pick locks I'd leave her in Lothering every time.

Shale may have been a soldier, but decades of being a golem changes ones outlook on life I'd think.

Perhaps but she was also ordered around for those decades.  I would think she'd either stay in the pattern or get really angry the first time you give her an order and storm off.

Wynne is a mage, again just because she has someone above her doesn't mean she followed his every word as she was not a soldier either. She was simply a member of the circle in which she was forced to be in.

Ostagar wasn't her first battle with the Darkspawn, she's been in wars before and as a mage who has served in an army she should be willing to take orders.

Also as far as I could tell I didn't enlist any of them, they were there voluntarily which meant they didn't have to follow my every order or agree with my every decision they are their own people. If I was in a battle they did what I told them to do, outside the battle they had their own opinions and views, just like normal soldiers do.

I don't know about that Sten and Zevran didn't really have a choice in the matter other than death.  Alistair gave up his claim to leadership, so he doesn't have any right to complain.  The other asked to follow me because they felt that stopping the blight was important and I could stop it.  They're volunteer soldiers, not friends.  My  Grey Warden is their leader, not their peer.  I don't really mind the camp banter all that much, since I can skip it, it's when I'm negotiating with someone and they chime in.  They undermine my character's authority and his bargaining position.    In the camp we may be friends, but when we're in the field I'm in charge and they're subordinates, and they should all be experienced enough to know that.

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:15 .

[AmstradHero]

OP: Because everyone has an opinion. Personally, I love nearly all the characters. Perhaps Sten is the only one I'm not a fan of, but I haven't really got him to 'open up' like some people have, so he comes across as a bit of a sanctimonious hypocrite to me. Personally, the fact that characters inspire such strong like/dislike from people is a sign that they are WELL WRITTEN. The worst character is a character who provokes no emotional response whatsoever... for more on this subject, see episode one of the 70 minute Phantom Menace review. :-P

[wwwwowwww]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

I believe Alistair is supposed to be in his mid twenties.  Also his training is 10 to 12 years of 12th century military training.  It's more like samurai, janissary training than ROTC.  He's also fought with the Grey Wardens for over a year.  He should be far more seasoned than you give him credit for.

Samurai? lol are you serious? Think it's time to rethink that one, I will change it from high school ROTC to College level though. He's still young and young people wether trained in fighting or not, have a hard time holding their tongue. Especially if they think they are right about something.

Lord Phoebus wrote...

I think you're thinking modern assassin as opposed to medieval assassin.  He'll be more the catch him alone while traveling or hunting assassin than the James Bond assassin.  If he's close enough to talk to you, he's close enough to poison you or stick a knife in your jugular.  He doesn't need to gain your trust.  By his own admission he should be dead several times over for his sloppy behaviour

Actually no I wasn't I was more thinking about the ninja style of assassination which depended more on earning the trust and infiltrating their targets homes and businesses then hitting them when they were most vulnerable. They'd pose as servants or workers for quite some time then hit when least expected and when they had the best chance of getting away unnoticed.

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Perhaps, but she's also a loon.  If she wasn't the only party member that's set up to pick locks I'd leave her in Lothering every time.

So she's a bit eccentric, that doesn't make her a loon.

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Perhaps but she was also ordered around for those decades.  I would think she'd either stay in the pattern or get really angry the first time you give her an order and storm off.

Why? Seems to me Shale is quite enjoying the new found freedom while in the security of new companions.

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Ostagar wasn't her first battle with the Darkspawn, she's been in wars before and as a mage who has served in an army she should be willing to take orders.

Just because it wasn't her first battle doesn't mean she is going to do whatever you say. Following orders in the midst of a Huge battle is one thing, blindly following orders while running around Ferelden is another. She joined you to help in the fight against the darkspawn, not to be your puppet.

Lord Phoebus wrote...

I don't know about that Sten and Zevran didn't really have a choice in the matter other than death.  Alistair gave up his claim to leadership, so he doesn't have any right to complain.  The other asked to follow me because they felt that stopping the blight was important and I could stop it.  They're volunteer soldiers, not friends.  My  Grey Warden is their leader, not their peer.  I don't really mind the camp banter all that much, since I can skip it, it's when I'm negotiating with someone and they chime in.  They undermine my character's authority and his bargaining position.    In the camp we may be friends, but when we're in the field I'm in charge and they're subordinates, and they should all be experienced enough to know that.

Just because he doesn't want to be seen as the leader doesn't mean he can't voice his opinion on matters. The others joined you because you were trying to stop the blight and they felt they could help, big difference. They are not volunteer soldiers, they are individuals who have chosen to aid you in your quest to defeat the darkspawn because they believe it the right and or noble thing to do. They are not your subordinates they are companions or allies in the cause, not mindless drones wishing to blindly follow your every command and wish.

Sounds to me you want some sort of hard core military game where you get to play some supreme general and not an RPG where you have to roleplay out different scenarios and situations.

Modifié par wwwwowwww, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:36 .

[Lord Phoebus]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Samurai? lol are you serious? Think it's time to rethink that one, I will change it from high school ROTC to College level though. He's still young and young people wether trained in fighting or not, have a hard time holding their tongue. Especially if they think they are right about something.

Yes, the Templars are effectively knights, knight and samurai training was very similar.  I doubt everyone in Alistair's "class" survived training.   He would have gone through brutal combat training.  Medieval combat training wasn't gentle, people died from blows from barded weapons, injuries would have been common and Alistair would have broken his wrists so many times from sword training the bones would have fused together. 

Actually no I wasn't I was more thinking about the ninja style of assassination which depended more on earning the trust and infiltrating their targets homes and businesses then hitting them when they were most vulnerable. They'd pose as servants or workers for quite some time then hit when least expected and when they had the best chance of getting away unnoticed.

Ninjas were spies first, killers second.  If you look at assassins through history they don't befriend thier marks and get close, they kill anonymously and quickly.  Infiltration takes time and energy, it's inefficient.

Just because he doesn't want to be seen as the leader doesn't mean he can't voice his opinion on matters. The others joined you because you were trying to stop the blight and they felt they could help, big difference. They are not volunteer soldiers, they are individuals who have chosen to aid you in your quest to defeat the darkspawn because they believe it the right and or noble thing to do. They are not your subordinates they are companions or allies in the cause, not mindless drones wishing to blindly follow your every command and wish.

Wrong, they don't know you well enough to be your companions.  They've spoken to you for all of 5 minutes and all other information they have is by reputation.  They're not there to help you.  They're there to help the Grey Warden stop the Blight.  That makes them soldiers.  If they don't like that designation they can leave and try to stop the blight by themselves. 

Sounds to me you want some sort of hard core military game where you get to play some supreme general and not an RPG where you have to roleplay out different scenarios and situations.

But in DA:O you are in the role of general.  You not gathering troops using the treaties to make a football team, you're assembling an army that you are going to lead to destroy the Blight.  You're even named general by whomever you make king or queen.  Granted the game fails to let you play out that position.  But that's the role your character is cast in.  It seems to me that you've forgotten that DA:O is a military RPG.  You're drafted into a military organization, you survive a crushing military defeat, you rebuild an army and you crush your opposition.  That's the plot of the game.

[wwwwowwww]

I'd say your more in the role of ambassador than general since your going around cashing in on treaties, but hey you have your opinion(as skewed as I think it is) and I have mine(the right one)

[Lughsan35]

antisocial troll is antisocial back under the bridge Mr!

[jsachun]

Wyne is the only one who does not say anything annoying, besides Dog.

[CptPatch]

Think of a workplace environment.  You don't necessarily have to like the people you work with, but you really do need to get along.  _Generally_ (with MANY personal anecdotes to the contrary I'm sure) people that work together do NOT go out of their way to irritate their coworkers.  IN PARTICULAR, in a military unit, you do _not_ go out of your way to ****** off the people that will be fighting alongside you in the near future.  Like this exchange from the movie Stripes:

Sergeant: You're all in this together. One of these men may end up saving your life one of these days.
Winger: Then again, maybe one of us won't.

This group of misfits is more likely to kill each other in their sleep than they are to stop a Blight.  In the early stages, the ONLY one the Hero can actually count on is Dog.   

Alistair is so busy pitying himself that the only thing that makes him effective are his Templar-trained reflexes.  If he ever starts to actually think during combat, he'd probably drop into a fetal position.

Until Morrigan actually starts thinking of you as someone she can frolic with in the tent, about the ONLY thing that keeps her trying to help you succeed is her own private agenda.  Her attitude towards the others is surly at best.  I imagine the rest of them are feeling that once this is over, she'll be leaving them some poisonous surprises in their bedrolls as her way of saying good-bye.

Leliana is like working with a missionary that asks you, "Have you been Saved yet?" every hour or so.

Wynne is bent on molding the Grey Wardens into her idea of what a Grey Warden should be.  As an employee, you might see decent performance as long as she feels like the boss is indeed following her suggestions.  If he obviously isn't, expect a going-through-the-motions performance.

Sten spends most of his time demonstrating "Adequate" performance.  Doesn't seem at all like a team player.  (At least not on this team anyway.)

Zevran is an Assassin that pointedly enjoys being an assassin.  In anything other than a game, a person would have to be thoroughly insane to add him to the squad.  As a squad leader, the Hero is deliberately putting the rest of the squad at risk to life and limb -- and for what?  A couple of the companions really, really, REALLY would have decided to head off on their own once the Hero was crazy enough to add the Assassin that was hired to kill them all to their party.  Sticking with the party after that point would feel like continuous Russian Roulette.

For all his faults, Oghren _does_ have ONE salient attribute: when the time comes, he does fight, and fights well and with gusto.  He's the one member of the party that everyone would actually want to be there when the s*** hits the fan.  The rest of the time, it would certainly be a nice option to stuff him in a trunk liberally sprayed with air freshener.  (He'd probably object though.  More's the pity.)

Loghain is the epitome of a professional soldier that firmly believes, "Just because we have to serve together does NOT mean I have to like you."  His tendency to continually second-guess the officer he serves under would wear on everyone's nerves _real quick_.  Every time the Hero gives him an order, he must be wondering whether the order will be carried out, or if Loghain will wander off and do what Loghain thinks is the right thing to do.

This group is miles beyond "dysfunctional".  They're less an army unit than they are an armed mob.  The ONLY reason they perform well is because of the "hive mind" control of the Hero (you).