165 réponses à ce sujet

[fhs33721]

The reason people hate the stupid Crucible as presented in-game is because it feels unearned. It's a long-forgotten "I Win Button" that's just conveniently dropped into your lap when you have no other solution and the threat is most dire. It feels like divine (plot) intervention, and completely undermines the thematic resonance behind breaking the destined cycle the Reapers impose upon every civilization.

But the Crucible being uneared is actually thematically consistant with how this cycle is only still alive thanks to the work of smarter people (a.k.a. the Protheans) who saved everyones a*ses by messing up the Reaper's signal to the citadel in the first place.

So infacts the crucible expands upon the theme of humans and Co just being planless fools that just lucked out and won by pure chance, which was established back in ME1.

[Iakus]

But the Crucible being uneared is actually thematically consistant with how this cycle is only still alive thanks to the work of smarter people (a.k.a. the Protheans) who saved everyones a*ses by messing up the Reaper's signal to the citadel in the first place.

So infacts the crucible expands upon the theme of humans and Co just being planless fools that just lucked out and won by pure chance, which was established back in ME1.

SO the theme of Mass Effect is "Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives"  

[AlanC9]

Not considering the approach to leave Repeal's origins alone is part of the problem as well. By forcing a "Repears are secretly working for a greater good" plotline the series has lost part of it's integrity, as a lead figure put his/her own wants ahead of the good of the story. A conventional victory with heavy losses is what the story was leading to, and what it needed to be the best it could have been, by forcing the "controversial bittersweet" ending the series as a whole is permanently effected, as no matter what anyone does in any game that occurs before the reaper war, it ends in red, blue, or green. It is, as someone said, like George Lucas and the prequels, in the sense that a lead figure could not step aside and think of the story before his own agenda.  

So Drew K., and Mac, and whoever else had decision-making power at Bio didn't agree with you about where the story should have gone? Well, that's life. But it's a little weird to say that they were putting their own wants ahead of the story. You surely don't think that they actually knew that your way was better, but did it their way because...... what would be the reason, exactly?

As for the reapers fleeing, the crucible could just prevent ftl travel. Or maybe the reapers just think they can win anyway. The crucible can be as powerful as one wants, but it needs to be tuned to not be too powerful to make it seem like a cop out. There is a delicate balance that needs to be obeyed when dealing with such a plot device.

If you're going to strip their armor and paralyze them with space magic, why not just blow them up with the space magic while you're at it?

[Han Shot First]

Using the Crucible to drop the Reapers' shields seems to be a common element in a lot of fan rewrites of the ending. I sort of used it in my attempt at rewriting the ending as well, as I had that be the Crucible's intended fuction. I would have the Crucible get damaged however during the final battle and propulsion would fail. It would not be able to to dock with the Citadel. After Hackett's dialogue about the Crucible not functioning properly, I'd have Shepard & company having to go to Plan B, and reconfigure the Crucible to fire into Widow, triggering a collapse of the star's core and causing it to go supernova. Mainly I went that route just because I think portraying a supernova in the series would have been awesome, and also because Javik's stories about the Protheans causing supernovae to win wars set a precedent in the lore. 

 

The only issue with using a supernova to destroy the Reapers is that anything that can travel at FTL speeds should be able to outrun it. So to get around that I'd have the galaxy weaponize mass effect technology in between Mass Effect 2 and 3, and introduce a new class of ship called an interdictor cruiser. They'd be capable of enveloping enemy ships in mass effect fields that would increase their mass and either prevent them from reaching FTL or dropping them out of it. I'd use those ships as a sacrificial rear guard to tie the Reapers down while the rest of the galactic fleet retreated through the relay.

[AlanC9]

I suppose it's not too surprising that a lot of fanfic used the shield-drop thing. We all saw that in Independence Day, right?

[dreamgazer]

I suppose it's not too surprising that a lot of fanfic used the shield-drop thing. We all saw that in Independence Day, right?

Don't remind me.

[Torgette]

The dark energy disrupting shields thing is actually an interesting/plausible idea that would definitely have worked better with the story.

Here's what it comes down to and what the ending SHOULD have embodied:

A sacrifice of Shepard was heavily foreshadowed throughout the entire trilogy, along with the obvious religious themes surrounding his character. Everyone with half a brain was expecting him to die at the end. But here's the crux: You ARE Shepard. You should have had the opportunity to willfully sacrifice yourself, and without metagaming, in the endings Shepard truly doesn't know. In Destroy, there's no reason for him to assume he will die. In Control, the nature of death is ambiguous due to living on as an AI (depending on your perspective of death and consciousness). The only choice where he can really be sure of death is Synthesis.

It's needlessly contrived, needlessly muddied, needlessly complicated. It should have just been:

Sacrifice yourself, ensure victory and destruction of the reapers once and for all, or don't sacrifice yourself and do not ensure victory (EMS assets may allow victory if high enough).

Such a choice brings MEANING back to the sacrifice. I dare say that without metagaming, most Shepards would have chosen the sacrifice choice to absolutely ensure victory - thus underscoring the nature of Shep's character, the sacrifice that the entire trilogy had been building up to, and that most players would willfully choose it.

 

I didn't bother metagaming, despite having not touched ME3 until this year. It was actually fairly easy to avoid everything related to the game for that entire time! That said once I got to that point in the game I saw no way out, I figured "well, Shep is standing next to basically a giant bomb in orbit over earth, doesn't matter if I survive the blast there's no way i'm surviving the destruction of the Citadel!", I also figured that a high EMS was more for saving your friends than yourself. Sure I was pleasantly surprised by the extended cut, but I had no regrets if Shep died - if anything going in blind it felt more like the other two options were more selfish.

[Esthlos]

SO the theme of Mass Effect is "Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives"  

Oh, this would have been so much better...

Just imagine: the Crucible is presented the same way it is currently, but there are alternatives that are only hinted at and are hard to get, and their effectiveness depends entirely on your choices.
(For example, if you spare the Quarians you can use a modified version of Xen's grenade to temporarily disrupt the synthetic portion of any Reaper, which leaves the organic part unsustained and thus kills it, leaving the targeted Reaper an empty shell that maybe can be controlled by other Reapers... or by the Geth, if you spared them too and persuaded Quarians and Geth to trust each other and fight together this way;
another thing I can think of at the moment: you could give all the info available on the Reapers to any known pre-space civilization, along with most of the available tech schematics and a sensor that signals when the Harvest is done; this way there's hope that the next cycle will develop a way to counter the Reapers, and will do so fast enough to actually stand a chance... by for example disabling every Mass Relay just before the next invasion, and developing high-precision extremely-long-ranged artillery and sensors that make it possible to pick off the arriving Reaper fleet before it gets in range to actually fight back).

Yet the Crucible is the only one made obvious, and presented as the best and easiest.
But in the end, it's also the only one that does not work... and maybe it's revealed that its plan is leaked by the Reapers themselves in each Cycle, so that the races will waste their resources and time building it instead of actually resisting and blind themselves to any alternative there may be.

[Iakus]

I suppose it's not too surprising that a lot of fanfic used the shield-drop thing. We all saw that in Independence Day, right?

It's also the one way we're expressly seen to destroy a Sovereign-class Reaper.  Namely with Saren's death.  Though according to the codex, that weakness was somehow patched out of the other Reapers.  How convenient...

 

At any rate, without their super-powerful kinetic barriers, a battle between the Rapers and the rest of the galaxy would be on a much more level playing field.

 

Oh, this would have been so much better...

Just imagine: the Crucible is presented the same way it is currently, but there are alternatives that are only hinted at and are hard to get, and their effectiveness depends entirely on your choices.
(For example, if you spare the Quarians you can use a modified version of Xen's grenade to temporarily disrupt the synthetic portion of any Reaper, which leaves the organic part unsustained and thus kills it, leaving the targeted Reaper an empty shell that maybe can be controlled by other Reapers... or by the Geth, if you spared them too and persuaded Quarians and Geth to trust each other and fight together this way;
another thing I can think of at the moment: you could give all the info available on the Reapers to any known pre-space civilization, along with most of the available tech schematics and a sensor that signals when the Harvest is done; this way there's hope that the next cycle will develop a way to counter the Reapers, and will do so fast enough to actually stand a chance... by for example disabling every Mass Relay just before the next invasion, and developing high-precision extremely-long-ranged artillery and sensors that make it possible to pick off the arriving Reaper fleet before it gets in range to actually fight back).

Yet the Crucible is the only one made obvious, and presented as the best and easiest.
But in the end, it's also the only one that does not work... and maybe it's revealed that its plan is leaked by the Reapers themselves in each Cycle, so that the races will waste their resources and time building it instead of actually resisting and blind themselves to any alternative there may be.

This cycle using their own ingenuity to stop the Reapers?  Having Shepard's fate and the fate of the galaxy depending on those choices?

 

Not artistic enough 

[Han Shot First]

Dying in destroy is OK with me too.

 

At the very least, it's not overt suicide. At least you're going out shooting something. 

 

 

 

I fully expected Shepard to die at the end of Mass Effect 3, so I wouldn't have minded Shepard dying to destroy the Reapers. Having said that it would have also needed to occur without  EDI and the Geth being destroyed, otherwise it would just be the lead writers trying to stack the deck against Destroy more than it already is. The existing endings are already fairly heavy-handed in trying to present Synthesis as the option you're supposed to choose. All that was missing was a flashing neon sign above the decision chamber saying "Go Green."

 

If Shepard somehow survived Synthesis & Control but died in Destroy, with EDI and the Geth surviving all endings, Destroy would still have been my choice.

[JasonShepard]

The existing endings are already fairly heavy-handed in trying to present Synthesis as the option you're supposed to choose. All that was missing was a flashing neon sign above the decision chamber saying "Go Green."

 

Well... the Synthesis ending is pretty much made out of green neon light... Does that count?

[themikefest]

It's also the one way we're expressly seen to destroy a Sovereign-class Reaper.  Namely with Saren's death.  Though according to the codex, that weakness was somehow patched out of the other Reapers.  How convenient...

 

At any rate, without their super-powerful kinetic barriers, a battle between the Rapers and the rest of the galaxy would be on a much more level playing field.

Looking at what happens to Sovereign after it lost its shields, I would guess that the reaper is useless and can't do anything except float around like a piece of space junk. Why didn't Sovereign make any effort to fly away? All it did was flop over before being destroyed

 

If the crucible was  able to disable the reapers shields, it would be easy pickings for the organics to destroy them

[Iakus]

I fully expected Shepard to die at the end of Mass Effect 3, so I wouldn't have minded Shepard dying to destroy the Reapers. Having said that it would have also needed to occur without  EDI and the Geth being destroyed, otherwise it would just be the lead writers trying to stack the deck against Destroy more than it already is. The existing endings are already fairly heavy-handed in trying to present Synthesis as the option you're supposed to choose. All that was missing was a flashing neon sign above the decision chamber saying "Go Green."

 

If Shepard somehow survived Synthesis & Control but died in Destroy, with EDI and the Geth surviving all endings, Destroy would still have been my choice.

I expected Shepard to possibly live or die based on a variety of choices made in the game.  Not "You picked this color, so you die now"

 

I also didn't expect to be punished for picking one particular color, or to be pushed into a particular one either ("Go Green!)".

 

It should have been possible for Shepard to survive any "color" ending, and there should have been benefits and drawbacks to all of them, no stacking. 

[countofhell]

I don't understand this because in "priority Earth " mission you really working hard on to finally meet the mastermind of all Reapers right ? So why removing him ? Instead i would changed him and could give him a lot deeper background and a lot more options and actions, scenes, fights ( indocrinated and transformed TIM boss fight probably can fit here ) after entering the conduit.

 

[Han Shot First]

I don't understand this because in "priority Earth " mission you really working hard on to finally meet the mastermind of all Reapers right ? So why removing him ? Instead i would changed him and could give him a lot deeper background and a lot more options and actions, scenes, fights ( indocrinated and transformed TIM boss fight probably can fit here ) after entering the conduit.

 

I can think of a very big reason to remove the Catalyst: child actors. The vast majority of child actors can't act, and the child that voiced the Catalyst was no exception. Also it's hard to take your arch enemy seriously when he looks like some snot-nosed 8 year old. 

 

It also had the effect of diminishing the Reapers as villains, and contradicted some of Sovereign's dialogue in the first game. If they were going to include some sort of god-king of the Reapers, I'd have rather it was something like the Tet from the movie Oblivion. Some parts of the movie were a little goofy, like the basic premise..but it did have a much more intimidating A.I. enemy, and a much better ending!

 

[countofhell]

I can think of a very big reason to remove the Catalyst: child actors. The vast majority of child actors can't act, and the child that voiced the Catalyst was no exception. Also it's hard to take your arch enemy seriously when he looks like some snot-nosed 8 year old. 

 

It also had the effect of diminishing the Reapers as villains, and contradicted some of Sovereign's dialogue in the first game.

Sovereign said " We have no beginning we have no end, we are infinite ".

And starchild said that all synthetics would be destroyed with the "destroy" ending. But this is no contradiction, but the Crucible changed the Citadel and make new possibilities.

 

Star child is not that simple. What child looks for you more strange or creepy ? A child who is playing with an alliance ship model ? Or a child who is talking about the past of the Galaxy and the extinction of every advanced civilization ? For me the latter child is really creepy and especially strange.

 

When you shoot at the kid he change his tone for a really scary one. He sounds like a demon

 for me. He's tone changes to some of the Reaper flagships theme. It is even more scarier than Harbringers speech.

[dreamgazer]

I don't want to think too much about the Saren battle...

Wise move.

[Han Shot First]

Sovereign said " We have no beginning we have no end, we are infinite ".

 

 

He also said, "We are each a nation - independent." That is contradicted by the Catalyst reveal.

 

Of course in retrospect you could just say that Sovereign was lying, but the out-of-game reason for the discrepancy is that the story was being made up on the fly and as of Mass Effect 1 they did not yet know how they were going to end the series. The Catalyst didn't exist yet.

[JasonShepard]

He also said, "We are each a nation - independent." That is contradicted by the Catalyst reveal.

 

Of course in retrospect you could just say that Sovereign was lying, but the out-of-game reason for the discrepancy is that the story was being made up on the fly and as of Mass Effect 1 they did not yet know how they were going to end the series. The Catalyst didn't exist yet.

 

It works somewhat if you assume that the Catalyst had them all indoctrinated. The Reapers may not have even known that the Catalyst existed.

[ImaginaryMatter]

It works somewhat if you assume that the Catalyst had them all indoctrinated. The Reapers may not have even known that the Catalyst existed.

 

The problem I always had with that is that one, Indoctrination deteriorates organic stuff over time and, two, why would the Catalyst build the Reapers to have some level of self determination if it was just going to go and diminish that any way.

 

I just go with the idea that the Catalyst has some flare for dramatics and decided to install villainous speech protocols into the Reaper programming in case any organic decided to talk to one.