165 réponses à ce sujet

[Torgette]

The problem I always had with that is that one, Indoctrination deteriorates organic stuff over time and, two, why would the Catalyst build the Reapers to have some level of self determination if it was just going to go and diminish that any way.

 

I just go with the idea that the Catalyst has some flare for dramatics and decided to install villainous speech protocols into the Reaper programming in case any organic decided to talk to one.

 

Well if the Heretics can view the Reapers as gods, maybe the Reapers view the Catalyst as a god? In the control ending you basically become the catalyst, and are something of a reaper god.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Well if the Heretics can view the Reapers as gods, maybe the Reapers view the Catalyst as a god? In the control ending you basically become the catalyst, and are something of a reaper god.

 

I think it's a bit more acceptable in the Geth case because Sovereign, back in ME1, was so much more advanced than them. For the Reapers and the Catalyst they would probably have a much greater understanding of what the Catalyst is, especially after hundreds of thousands of years; the Reapers just wouldn't have that gap between them and the Catalyst that the Geth had between Sovereign. I can't help but think after all that time you would start having 'atheist' Reapers.

[Torgette]

I think it's a bit more acceptable in the Geth case because Sovereign, back in ME1, was so much more advanced than them. For the Reapers and the Catalyst they would probably have a much greater understanding of what the Catalyst is, especially after hundreds of thousands of years; the Reapers just wouldn't have that gap between them and the Catalyst that the Geth had between Sovereign. I can't help but think after all that time you would start having 'atheist' Reapers.

 

Actually thinking about it some more, the "Independence" line makes easy sense, especially when next to "nation". Nation itself largely means a commonly held idea by many, it can be something concrete like ethnic culture or an idea like an empire. For the reapers "Nation" literally means everything of a species' identity. Then you have independence, which in context of a Catalyst intelligence makes no sense but from the POV of what a reaper truly is as a preservation of a species is easy - independence from mother nature. A reaper doesn't need to feed, or seek shelter, die, or reproduce - it can exist infinitely and without basic needs can have more free will than any organic. Order from the chaos of organic evolution.

 

That may not completely answer why they obey the Catalyst, but that answer is probably found in the idea of the "harvest" and "ascension" being fundamentals of reaper existence to begin with.

[CrutchCricket]

At the very least, it's not overt suicide. At least you're going out shooting something. 

I don't know about that. The stupid way he walks forward towards the explosion is pretty overt. A clear case of "I don't want to live in this galaxy anymore (when my greatest enemy is a holographic child)"

 

It works somewhat if you assume that the Catalyst had them all indoctrinated. The Reapers may not have even known that the Catalyst existed.

Not indoctrinated, inception'd. They've got the horns for it.

 

But honestly if the holokid doesn't like to micromanage (and it seems that way) then the most effective way to keep the Reapers on task is to make them think it's all their idea.

[Iakus]

I don't know about that. The stupid way he walks forward towards the explosion is pretty overt. A clear case of "I don't want to live in this galaxy anymore (when my greatest enemy is a holographic child)"

 

It's some bizare subversion of the Unflinching Walk

 

Wait, shouldn't I walk away from the fireball?

[Iakus]

I never could figure out why they go towards the explosion... It could be seen as suicidal. To me, it's one last act of defiance, in a situation where Shep could barely defy much of anything.. one final "F*ck you. Do your worst".

"Get in close and finish 'em off!"

 

It worked for the Collector cruiser, right?  

[themikefest]

I never could figure out why they go towards the explosion... It could be seen as suicidal. To me, it's one last act of defiance, in a situation where Shep could barely defy much of anything.. one final "F*ck you. Do your worst".

After seeing Anderson doing that in the vision, I thought my femshep have more common sense than that guy. I was wrong. Bioware assumed direct control over my Shepard and had her get up close and personal to shoot the tube. 

 

What's the point in shooting at something 50 feet away when it can be done 2 feet away?

 

Maybe on my next playthrough, I will do that. Instead of shooting at the enemy from a distance, I will do it while standing right next to them. Yeah. Sounds like a plan

[ImaginaryMatter]

It's some bizare subversion of the Unflinching Walk

 

Wait, shouldn't I walk away from the fireball?

 

There's also the question of why Shepard is shooting at the tube. Nobody told Shepard to shoot at the tube.

[Vazgen]

There's also the question of why Shepard is shooting at the tube. Nobody told Shepard to shoot at the tube.

Dat vision though

[Han Shot First]

There's also the question of why Shepard is shooting at the tube. Nobody told Shepard to shoot at the tube.

 

...or why the Crucible was even designed to work the way it does for all three choices. What ever happened to a simple control panel with three color coded buttons? Were the engineers on drugs? 

 

Of course the less you think about those endings, the better. 

[Torgette]

...or why the Crucible was even designed to work the way it does for all three choices. What ever happened to a simple control panel with three color coded buttons? Were the engineers on drugs?

Of course the less you think about those endings, the better.

They should've designed it like a carnival - hit the bell with the oversized hammer for control, shoot the balloons with the water pistol for destroy, guess the weight for synthesis

[Vazgen]

...or why the Crucible was even designed to work the way it does for all three choices. What ever happened to a simple control panel with three color coded buttons? Were the engineers on drugs? 

 

Of course the less you think about those endings, the better. 

I believe the panel is below, where TIM confrontation takes place and the reason the child lifts you up there is to make you choose Synthesis (or, at least, Control). 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Dat vision though

 

But did Shepard see that?

[Vazgen]

But did Shepard see that?

I think so, yes. It is implied that way IMO. He looks to the corresponding option and the cutscene plays. 

[themikefest]

I think so, yes. It is implied that way IMO. He looks to the corresponding option and the cutscene plays. 

If she sees the vision showing Anderson and the vision showing TIM, where was the vision showing someone or something jumping in the beam? How did she know she needed to jump in the beam of crap? 

[Vazgen]

If she sees the vision showing Anderson and the vision showing TIM, where was the vision showing someone or something jumping in the beam? How did she know she needed to jump in the beam of crap? 

No idea. Most likely because there was no other option in the central pathway. Synthesis is BS anyway

[themikefest]

No idea. Most likely because there was no other option in the central pathway. Synthesis is BS anyway

If I had to choose someone or something for a vision for synthesis, it would be Saren, but since folks may not know who the character is, edi might work.

 

Yes the green stuff is crap. It would be interesting if there was an option for Shepard to go back down the elevator and grab both Anderson and Tim and throw one or both bodies in the beam. I might've chosen that ending, only once, just to see what happens

[fraggle]

Yes the green stuff is crap. It would be interesting if there was an option for Shepard to go back down the elevator and grab both Anderson and Tim and throw one or both bodies in the beam. I might've chosen that ending, only once, just to see what happens

 

Probably nothing would happen. They're both dead anyway and the Catalyst stresses that Synthesis can only be done if the person doing it is willing to, which neither TIM nor Anderson were.

It just occurs to me that Shepard is up there with supporters of all 3 choices. TIM Control, Anderson Destroy, Catalyst Synthesis

[Iakus]

Probably nothing would happen. They're both dead anyway and the Catalyst stresses that Synthesis can only be done if the person doing it is willing to, which neither TIM nor Anderson were.

It just occurs to me that Shepard is up there with supporters of all 3 choices. TIM Control, Anderson Destroy, Catalyst Synthesis

So why can't Shepard spit or...other stuff...into the Crucible, if all it needs is someone willing to force it on the galaxy?

[AlanC9]

So why can't Shepard spit or...other stuff...into the Crucible, if all it needs is someone willing to force it on the galaxy?

For the exact same reason Legion died, of course.

[wright1978]

...or why the Crucible was even designed to work the way it does for all three choices. What ever happened to a simple control panel with three color coded buttons? Were the engineers on drugs? 

 

Of course the less you think about those endings, the better. 

 

Whole crucible thing is a mess. Lets build this huge supposed weapon which we have no clue as to how to activate.

The whole activation methods would be comedy gold if it wasn't such a heartbreaking trainwreck.

 

Sigourney Weaver's dialogue from Galaxy Quest springs to my mind

 

"What is this thing? I mean, it serves no useful purpose for there to be a bunch of chompy, crushy things in the middle of a hallway. No, I mean we shouldn't have to do this, it makes no logical sense, why is it here?"