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[Iakus]

Legion also supports your decision to destroy the heretics when it was necessary during the war-room conversation, and reminds Shepard and the others during ME2 not to impose benign anthropomorphism on them.

"If this were an organic race, it might be an ethical problem. Geth aren't like organic life. Don't apply our morality to them."

"That is logical".

 

And hilariously, Legion's final act is to impose benign anthropomorphism on his entire race.

hang on we're all boned.  who gives a damn whether or not the geth survive?  all species are facing obliteration, you just got yourselves an 'I WIN' button and you're worried about the geth?  Seriously?  Nutjob AI can do a flying one.  I'm for shooting the tube and ending this madness once and for all.

 

hesitation gets everyone killed/huskified.

 

 

Except it's a game.  A curious game, where the only winning move is not to play.

[dreamgazer]

And hilariously, Legion's final act is to impose benign anthropomorphism on his entire race.

Actually, it's to dramatically increase their processing power, which they had been working towards for a long time.

[JasonShepard]

hang on we're all boned.  who gives a damn whether or not the geth survive?  all species are facing obliteration, you just got yourselves an 'I WIN' button and you're worried about the geth?  Seriously?  Nutjob AI can do a flying one.  I'm for shooting the tube and ending this madness once and for all.

 

hesitation gets everyone killed/huskified.

 

Fine. Go ahead. If you don't trust the implementation of Synthesis or Control, that's a perfectly viable reason to accept the cost of the Geth and pick Destroy. Especially if you don't care about the Geth.

 

Personally, my Shepard weighs the lives of the Geth against how much he trusts that the Control-entity would still be him. That's why the question of who the Geth are and why they did what they did matters so much.

[CrutchCricket]

If they had not explained the Reapers, I would've thrown a fit. That's all I ever wanted to know since ME1. I can not fathom you'd want them left unexplained and just kill them.

Because pretty much any explanation would cheapen them. What we have is probably among the worst. "We are beyond your comprehension. We have no begining, no end"? Nope. Just goddamn killbots with **** programming. Vast alien intelligence beyond our very perception? Nope, just Skynet's retarded little brother.

 

I don't specifically want to kill them, it's just a matter of us or them.

 

And hilariously, Legion's final act is to impose benign anthropomorphism on his entire race.

The writers did that. They've been trying to do that since ME2 with the stupid N7 armor piece.

 

Personally, my Shepard weighs the lives of the Geth against how much he trusts that the Control-entity would still be him. That's why the question of who the Geth are and why they did what they did matters so much.

I don't trust the holokid and I certainly don't buy into his nonsense. But if I can't preserve the world I love I might as well become a nigh mechagod and explore the universe. Bioware wants to throw everything they've built to ****, fine. I'll take their stuff and make my own.

[Iakus]

Actually, it's to dramatically increase their processing power, which they had been working towards for a long time.

Actually, they were working towards a complete merging, to share all perspectives and never be alone again.  They wanted to become a single entity of incalculable intellect.  What Legion did to the geth was the exact opposite.

[CrutchCricket]

"There are levels of survival we're willing to accept."

 

Quoting the Architect from the Matrix seems appropriate here, for a number of reasons...

[dreamgazer]

Actually, they were working towards a complete merging, to share all perspectives and never be alone again.  They wanted to become a single entity of incalculable intellect.  What Legion did to the geth was the exact opposite.

What Legion "did to the geth" was a highly advantageous alternative that increased their processing capabilities following the quarian attack, yet does not negate the potential of future conjoining of perspectives, if so desired.

[Iakus]

What Legion "did to the geth" was a highly advantageous alternative that increased their processing capabilities following the quarian attack, yet does not negate the potential of future conjoining of perspectives, if so desired.

you're going to have to show your work on that one.

[dreamgazer]

you're going to have to show your work on that one.

There's no reason to assume they wouldn't be able to.

[Iakus]

There's no reason to assume they wouldn't be able to.

Except for their entire perspective and sense of identity changing.  

 

 

You say there'a no reason to assume theycan't merge themselves.  But if they now have distincthe individual personalities, why wpuldn' such an attempt just lead to "QUIET, PLEASE!  MAKE IT STOP! "?

[KaiserShep]

Yep, we already sacrificed a lot to get to that point, throwing that away because starchild mcgee wants you to jump in the beam seems awful.

I'm sure the geth would understand, they certainly did in ME2.

 

Considering that the geth were perfectly willing to attach themselves to the reapers, even after knowing what they were, because the quarians put them on the brink of annihilaition, I'd say that they'd probably disapprove of the decision. Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether or not they agree with anything. They have no say in the matter, and they're going to be deleted anyhow. At the very least, they won't have any knowledge of what's about to happen to them.

[Kel Riever]

Yes, OP, it wouldn't have been hard.  They basically blew it and the best way forward would be to ignore Mass Effect 3 entirely and have Mass Effect 4 (yes I said 4...) start from where 2 left off and do the whole thing over.  The Reaper invasion could be done again...or not.  There is no reason to have the climactic battle of the reapers, as appealing as it is, anytime soon.  The Reapers are simply the ongoing enemy of a saga that doesn't have to end.  Or end it when it is done right.

Not with a starbrat and RGB with dialogue that makes no sense at all.

That's it.  Mass Effect 4 has no Shepard, and takes place in the timeline after ME2.  The Reaper War absolutely does not happen any 6 months later, and go.  

Oh, and do not have anyone responsible for the ending of ME3 involved in any way, shape or form.

[AlanC9]

Except for their entire perspective and sense of identity changing.  
 
 
You say there'a no reason to assume theycan't merge themselves.  But if they now have distincthe individual personalities, why wpuldn' such an attempt just lead to "QUIET, PLEASE!  MAKE IT STOP! "?

That's just an engineering challenge, isn't it?

Whether the geth would still desire a merged state is a different question from whether they would be able to achieve that state.

[Iakus]

That's just an engineering challenge, isn't it?

Whether the geth would still desire a merged state is a different question from whether they would be able to achieve that state.

 

And why would they no longer desire that state, which they have spent centuries trying to achieve?

 

Because they have been anthropomorphized.

[dreamgazer]

And why would they no longer desire that state, which they have spent centuries trying to achieve?

 

Dunno, but the upgrade in processing power and this change in perspective doesn't negate the possibility.

 

You're trying to make something black and white that isn't.

 

Mass Effect 4 has no Shepard, and takes place in the timeline after ME2.  The Reaper War absolutely does not happen any 6 months later, and go.

 

If we're going that route, we might as well go back to the end of ME1 and bypass Lazarus, "Ah yes, Reapers" and all them daddy issues.

 

Call it The Real Mass Effect 2. 

[Iakus]

I wish I could remember the line, but Legion said something about how the Geth aspired to the relationship the Reapers had amongst themselves. About how the Geth hive mind was slightly different. Something about "interdependence". I can't find the quote though. 

 

 

I don't know.. just mentioning it. It might apply to the above conversation. 

 

 

"The Reapers are more your future than ours":

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=CqtAHNQT3-w

[CrutchCricket]

The Reapers are one nation independent. The geth are one nation but interdependent.

 

Paraphrased, of course.

 

And while I'm not sure if geth would seek consensus the same way or to the same degree as before the Reaper upgrades, said upgrades invalidate neither what they were, nor what they are now. And they certainly don't "anthropomorphize them". Unless you actually suggest that individualism is the sole domain of humanity. Which seems like a terribly arrogant claim to make.

[CrutchCricket]

I don't agree with the second part though. They're not the Geth, by Legion's own standards. Their like heretics again. He had another line about how "choosing another's path closes one to options".

They are the geth. Same programs, but changed. There is continuity. That may make them more than geth. But they don't cease being geth in the way you're implying. It's the same thing as with Shepard in Control. It's not what's taken from them, it's what's added that makes the difference.

 

As for paths, those were closed off already by the idiot quarian attack. The only other path was extinction. Tough break but they made the right choice. The choice to decide their own future at a later date.

[CrutchCricket]

That's a nice sentiment when you're dealing with individuals.

 

It's something else entirely when you're talking about a whole race. You're also treading in Refuse waters...

 

The geth are... uncomfortable with extinction, to say the least. They're also not organic and don't have the requisite concepts of defiance, pride, recklessness or even subconscious belief in afterlife to adopt a position like that.

 

That sort of sentiment does typically fall within a more anthropomorphic purview. Not going to claim it's exclusive. But weren't we praising the geth for not being anthropomorphic a little while ago?

[CrutchCricket]

It's not Refuse if I can fight somehow. Slight difference, if you go out guns blazing Those humans didn't, but I think they would if they could.

 

That's the funny thing about the Geth though. EDI came to a different conclusion, even though she's synthetic too. And ironically, some part of her cyber-warfare suite is reaper code, at that.

If you refuse Shepard may not live much longer. But everyone else will go guns blazing. There's no meaningful difference.

 

And geth do not judge reaching a different conclusion as wrong. Though of the two, it's not hard to see which was created closer to organics but also which spent more time with them.