214 réponses à ce sujet

[Navasha]

I have no doubt that whoever wrote that final scene probably believed that synthesis was the "best" choice in their mind.   What they didn't realize was that their opinion was in the far minority.   

 

I found the green ending the most horrific and disgusting of the bunch.    Nothing like fighting that whole trilogy only to basically surrender your free will and give in to the Reapers whole belief system.  

 

Its a sort of collectivist utopian vision of the future, where everyone looks and thinks exactly the same.    To an individualist, that idea is rather abhorrent.   The writer clearly failed to understand his/her audience, which was part of the reason for the massive backlash.

[Revan Reborn]

Another "this is actually the canon ME3 ending thread." You may as well call it what it is.

 

No, Synthesis is not the "canon" ending. No, there really isn't a "canon" ending. The only ending that's actually consistent and makes sense for Mass Effect, and by consequence the "best" ending, is Destroy. Control is less credible and Refusal is fan service. Synthesis would only make sense based on the premise that the Catalyst, and by extension, the reapers, are "right." If you come to that conclusion and rationalize that "order" is essential, then Synthesis is best for you.

 

For me, it was rather simple. The Catalyst was a simple depiction of the Hal 9000 situation in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Here, you have an artifical intelligence who becomes too smart for its own good. Thus, the synthetic, such as the Catalyst, turns on the master, organics. So, unless you actually side with that warped logic of maintaining peace through extinction and harvesting, no rational person could conclude Synthesis is a viable alternative (not to mention it failed in the past when the Catalyst tried). Not only that, the entire choice is completely far-fetched and continues to bolster an area of Mass Effect that shouldn't be encouraged, "space magic."

 

In closing, 100% galactic readiness with Shepard breathing at the end is the perfect ending, from my perspective. Synthesis is by far the worst in its execution and repercussions. One of the themes that made ME3 so compelling was that how various races from all over the galaxy came together to tackle this indestructible threat. Even Javik takes note as this never happened with the Protheans, who enslaved everyone, just like the Leviathans.

 

Regardless of what choice BioWare thought was the "best," the most consistent was destroy because it promotes diversity, individuality, and a willingness to sacrifice in order to remain "alive" and "organic." Synthesis is really just another form of the reaper solution, thus it contradicts the entire point of the trilogy. Lastly, how can something be the "best ending" when you force unwanted "evolution" on everybody without their consent, when you were fighting for everybody's freedom from the start? That just seems like an indirect slap in the face from my perpective.

[StealthGamer92]

Synthesis would only make sense based on the premise that the Catalyst, and by extension, the reapers, are "right." If you come to that conclusion and rationalize that "order" is essential, then Synthesis is best for you.

.

Not really, any sane person should see the Catalyst is wrong about Synthesis bringing peace and order. There would always be those who would use there new abillities for revenge and personal gain. All Synthesis does is put everyone on equal footing, they'd all still be unique despite the changes and and they wouldn't be Reaper2.0's like people try to say. Alot of scare tactics are used against Synthesis when the real problem is more primal, which is that ever present fear of change.

[Revan Reborn]

Not really, any sane person should see the Catalyst is wrong about Synthesis bringing peace and order. There would always be those who would use there new abillities for revenge and personal gain. All Synthesis does is put everyone on equal footing, they'd all still be unique despite the changes and and they wouldn't be Reaper2.0's like people try to say. Alot of scare tactics are used against Synthesis when the real problem is more primal, which is that ever present fear of change.

Again, key words here: "IF you come to that conclsion and RATIONALIZE" suggests the person is not sane. Synthesis essentially makes everybody a new form of "reaper." Not in the literal sense, but by what the end result is meant to be. Again, Synthesis is the Catalyst's final solution, while the reapers were the temporary solution. In order to buy into Synthesis, you must buy into the Catalyst's argument. Thus, Synthesis is really just as bad as Refusal, because you acknowledge the reapers, and really the Catalyst, was right. At least with Refusal you spit in the Catalyst's face.

[themikefest]

I make it simple for myself. I just shoot the tube. Its very easy to do

[Larry-3]

Technically in the Control ending, everyone survives -- even Shepard. He does not technically die... he is just uploaded into a... computer?

I wonder if he can be re-downloaded?

I wonder if Control is blue for paragon...

[Revan Reborn]

Technically in the Control ending, everyone survives -- even Shepard. He does not technically die... he is just uploaded into a... computer?

I wonder if he can be re-downloaded?

I wonder if Control is blue for paragon...

The only choices people die in is Destroy and Refusal, which isn't really a choice. This is meant to make Destroy morally-troubling and force the player to grapple with the decision. It's ultimately the best choice, but it comes at a price. Control and Synthesis are nice with butterflies and candy because everybody lives and they can hold hands in harmony. Neither of those choices is something I can personally take seriously.

[StealthGamer92]

Again, key words here: "IF you come to that conclsion and RATIONALIZE" suggests the person is not sane. Synthesis essentially makes everybody a new form of "reaper." Not in the literal sense, but by what the end result is meant to be. Again, Synthesis is the Catalyst's final solution, while the reapers were the temporary solution. In order to buy into Synthesis, you must buy into the Catalyst's argument. Thus, Synthesis is really just as bad as Refusal, because you acknowledge the reapers, and really the Catalyst, was right. At least with Refusal you spit in the Catalyst's face.

I said in my post the Catalyst was spouting bs, yet you say I agree with him? Also if the Catalyst, Alliance, and Illusive Man weren't advertising Synthesis, Destroy, and Controll your argument falls apart. Say the Prothean VI told you all possibilities unbiasedly, then it would've been ton's more unbiased than the three choice mascots we got. What I'm saying is many are biased against Synthesis just because it was advertised by The Reapers the things we were taught to hate and fear over 3 games.

[Revan Reborn]

I said in my post the Catalyst was spouting bs, yet you say I agree with him? Also if the Catalyst, Alliance, and Illusive Man weren't advertising Synthesis, Destroy, and Controll your argument falls apart. Say the Prothean VI told you all possibilities unbiasedly, then it would've been ton's more unbiased than the three choice mascots we got. What I'm saying is many are biased against Synthesis just because it was advertised by The Reapers the things we were taught to hate and fear over 3 games.

I don't even know what your argument is as you aren't making coherent sense. How does my argument fall apart? You are saying things without connecting them to anything or having any correlating reason.

 

Let me say this one last time. The reapers were a temporary solution to create "order" in a galaxy that was filled with "chaos." Synthesis, was the final solution that the Catalyst wanted to achieve, but could not. Conveniently enough, Shepard was the "missing piece" for this final solution of Synthesis. This isn't about "hate and fear" of the reapers for three games. This is about not being an idiot and letting a rogue AI dictate the entire galaxy by playing God in what it perceives as the ideal form of organics and synthetics...

 

I can't make things much more clear and transparent for you than that. Synthesis is creatively and literally the dumbest choice because of how it was executed and implemented by BioWare. Regardless of what they wanted to be the "best" choice, it is, in fact, the worst choice.

[StealthGamer92]

I don't even know what your argument is as you aren't making coherent sense. How does my argument fall apart? You are saying things without connecting them to anything or having any correlating reason.

 

Let me say this one last time. The reapers were a temporary solution to create "order" in a galaxy that was filled with "chaos." Synthesis, was the final solution that the Catalyst wanted to achieve, but could not. Conveniently enough, Shepard was the "missing piece" for this final solution of Synthesis. This isn't about "hate and fear" of the reapers for three games. This is about not being an idiot and letting a rogue AI dictate the entire galaxy by playing God in what it perceives as the ideal form of organics and synthetics...

 

I can't make things much more clear and transparent for you than that. Synthesis is creatively and literally the dumbest choice because of how it was executed and implemented by BioWare. Regardless of what they wanted to be the "best" choice, it is, in fact, the worst choice.

I just re-read what I wrote and yes it is stupid jiberish sorry. I'm trying to say I just don't see the final choice as the reapers choice. I see it as the only "let the galaxy live or die on it's own terms" choice. In Destroy I commit genocide on not only the Geth but the civilizations held within the reapers, in controll I don't think a human(even Shepard) could stay sane in that sittuation then they turn into crazy hommicidal machines. I also don't choose Synthesis as a easy way out, in fact I like the Shepard breath scene much better, I just choose it because it gives all sentient life the chance to live with 0% chance of me killing entire species in the process. We obviously just view the material differently so we won't agree or compromise, but my view is every bit as sane, logical, and right as yours, and you always just outright call Synthesis wrong or dumb and I can't help but bite and try to defend my point of view even though I know I can't change your opinion(which I have no problem with). I just don't like when people state their opinion as the only sane or smart one(again your right to think so all the same) so I just feel compelled to point out if mines different and state why I believe I'm right. Now I'm going to sleep before I make another jiberish post.

[Revan Reborn]

I just re-read what I wrote and yes it is stupid jiberish sorry. I'm trying to say I just don't see the final choice as the reapers choice. I see it as the only "let the galaxy live or die on it's own terms" choice. In Destroy I commit genocide on not only the Geth but the civilizations held within the reapers, in controll I don't think a human(even Shepard) could stay sane in that sittuation then they turn into crazy hommicidal machines. I also don't choose Synthesis as a easy way out, in fact I like the Shepard breath scene much better, I just choose it because it gives all sentient life the chance to live with 0% chance of me killing entire species in the process. We obviously just view the material differently so we won't agree or compromise, but my view is every bit as sane, logical, and right as yours, and you always just outright call Synthesis wrong or dumb and I can't help but bite and try to defend my point of view even though I know I can't change your opinion(which I have no problem with). I just don't like when people state their opinion as the only sane or smart one(again your right to think so all the same) so I just feel compelled to point out if mines different and state why I believe I'm right. Now I'm going to sleep before I make another jiberish post.

You are more than entitled to like and choose Synthesis. As I stated previously, there is no "canon" ending, thus they are all technically viable. I just see Synthesis as an incredibly flimsy choice given the major themes of the game. It contradicts Shepard and what many were fighting for. It paints this unrealistic and ideal picture of everybody holding hands in harmony and nobody dying.

 

Yet, what you don't realize is you sacrifice individualism, uniqueness, and the ability to be different and disagree. You promote uniforminty and homogeneity as a means of solving the problem of organics being "chaotic" by nature, creating synthetics, and then destroying everything. That is not a choice for the Catalyst to make. That is not a choice for Shepard to make. Nobody has the right to play God. Let the galaxy work it out through natural means under Destroy.

[Mcfly616]

 

Yet, what you don't realize is you sacrifice individualism, uniqueness, and the ability to be different and disagree. 

That's your own interpretation and/or headcanon. Nothing more.

[Revan Reborn]

That's your own interpretation and/or headcanon. Nothing more.

Not at all. Go back and listen to what the Catalyst says. All organics are "improved" with more parts from synthetics. All synthetics gain "understanding" of life and organics. Even the Extended Cut clearly shows a utopia in which everybody is getting along and working together in a unity and peace never before seen in the galaxy. That is the Catalyt's final solution. That is what Synthesis attempts to achieve. The experience of being alive is "sacrified" through forced "peace" of making everybody the same. That is the result.

[AlanC9]

Control & Synthesis pose greater risks to the future of galactic civilization because they rely solely on trusting the goodwill of an A.I. overlord in command of a Reaper fleet. Shepard is betting that galactic civilization will continue to exist because the A.I. overlord will permit it. Synthesis again is the worst of the lot, in that the entity controlling the Reaper fleet is the same A.I. overlord responsible for countless mass extinction cycles. With Destroy there is no roll of the dice. The A.I. overlord is gone and so is its Reaper fleet

Note that this is only true in the short term. Reaper superiority is a temporary thing unless non-Reaper civilization is either frozen or outright dismantled. I'm also not clear why the provenance of the AI overlord in Synthesis matters.

And again, Destroy is still a roll of the dice. You argued earlier that the risks are lower -- though I was skeptical of this conclusion since we don't have any principled way to put numbers on the probabilities. But lower risk isn't zero risk.

[Mcfly616]

The experience of being alive is "sacrified" through forced "peace" of making everybody the same. That is the result.

Again, that's your own pessimistic interpretation. Take your own advice and watch it again. Listen to EDI's epilogue. She describes nothing of what you say. She doesn't even vaguely imply it. There is no allusion to forced peace or the sacrifice of being alive. 

 

That's the result of your own imagination. Not what was portrayed in-game.

[StealthGamer92]

Not at all. Go back and listen to what the Catalyst says. All organics are "improved" with more parts from synthetics. All synthetics gain "understanding" of life and organics. Even the Extended Cut clearly shows a utopia in which everybody is getting along and working together in a unity and peace never before seen in the galaxy. That is the Catalyt's final solution. That is what Synthesis attempts to achieve. The experience of being alive is "sacrified" through forced "peace" of making everybody the same. That is the result.

That does not mean losing all individuality or free will necesarily though, and of course they try to just focus on the positives of your choice which is there way of pating you on the back in-game.

[Revan Reborn]

Note that this is only true in the short term. Reaper superiority is a temporary thing unless non-Reaper civilization is either frozen or outright dismantled. I'm also not clear why the provenance of the AI overlord in Synthesis matters.

And again, Destroy is still a roll of the dice. You argued earlier that the risks are lower -- though I was skeptical of this conclusion since we don't have any principled way to put numbers on the probabilities. But lower risk isn't zero risk.

Actually, Destroy in many ways is the safest bet. For one, we know that everything can be rebuilt, as we see that happen in the EC. We see the Citadel and Earth recover from the reaper invasion. The only things lost are EDI and the Geth. Whereas with Synthesis and Control, those are permanent choices. There is no going back, and the reapers still exist. There are a lot more uknown variables in those situations because Shepard is either turned into a formless "conscious" for the reapers to follow, or he is broken down into fairy dust to be distributed amongst all organics and synthetics. The most rational choice isn't difficult to figure out.

[Revan Reborn]

Again, that's your own pessimistic interpretation. Take your own advice and watch it again. Listen to EDI's epilogue. She describes nothing of what you say. She doesn't even vaguely imply it. There is no allusion to forced peace or the sacrifice of being alive. 

 

That's the result of your own imagination. Not what was portrayed in-game.

What does EDI have to do with the Catalyst? The two aren't even remotely related. The Catalyst is the biggest proponent of Synthesis and it's the only choice it actively encourages Shepard to choose. You wouldn't even question for one moment if you should really take the advice of a rogue AI that has made it its purpose to eradicate all organic and synthetic live for thousands of years? I suppose that's the difference between you and me... I won't bet the fate of the galaxy on the alleged promises of a machine who is an ally to no one.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 The experience of being alive is "sacrified"

 

First-hand account says you're wrong.

 

EDI: "I am alive."
EDI: "I am alive(, and I am not alone)."

[Revan Reborn]

First-hand account says you're wrong.

 

EDI: "I am alive."
EDI: "I am alive(, and I am not alone)."

You are confusing two very separate things. For one, synthesis does not turn organics into synthetics. What it does is provide organics with more synthetic parts to make them "improved." In actuality, it is only taking away what makes them organic to start and different from one another. For lack of a better term, they lose their "humanity."

 

EDI was struggling with her purpose and the meaning of life. She rationalized the purpose of organics to procreate and survive. It took her time to realize the people she met and cared about were what mattered to her and that made her feel "alive." EDI more or less gained the "understanding" that synthetics were searching for.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

In actuality, it is only taking away what makes them organic to start and different from one another.

Quick! Which picture is from Synthesis epilogue and which picture is from Destroy epilogue?




 

EDI was struggling with her purpose and the meaning of life. She rationalized the person of organics to procreate and survive. It took her time to realize the people she met and care about were what mattered to her and that made her feel "alive." EDI more or less gained the "understanding" that synthetics were searching for.

 
Right, it changed something of her nature, but the core of who she is remains the same.

 

Some folks seem unable to differentiate between those two things, though.

[Revan Reborn]

Quick! Which picture is from Synthesis epilogue and which picture is from Destroy epilogue?




 

 
Right, it changed something of her nature, but the core of who she is remains the same.

 

Some folks seem unable to differentiate between those two things, though.

The top picture looks like the Destroy EC.

 

The second picture appears to be trimmed with one of the crew mates barely visible, who I'd imagine is probably EDI. Thus, Synthesis EC.

 

In fairness, the ending of Mass Effect 3 and the initial lack of explanation was a blunder on BioWare's part. For those who did not thoroughly study what was going on and understand the full gravity of the experience, it's easy to be confused. Part of it was just a lack of quality coneyance with respect to the storytelling.

 

I know after Shepard was hit by Harbinger's beam that I was confused for a while by what the heck was going on when Shepard "boarded" the Citadel.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 A: they are both Synthesis epilogue pics. I just cut more of the bottom one to hide the video-maker's logo.

 

Were there truth to your claim that Synthesis removes differences, you would not have fallen for my trap, obviously.

 

Turns out, people post-Synthesis are no less diverse than before.

[Revan Reborn]

 A: they are both Synthesis epilogue pics. I just cut more of the bottom one to hide the video-maker's logo.

 

Were there truth to your claim that Synthesis removes differences, you would not have fallen for my trap, obviously.

 

Turns out, people post-Synthesis are no less diverse than before.

Except that I never argued Synthesis made races more similar externally... What Synthesis actually does do is change races internally, specifically their DNA, which obviously can't be seen. Having different images in which your Shepard clearly had a different romance, thus different companions holding Shepard's name tag, does nothing to disprove my points about Synthesis.

 

Nice try. However, it's long been established that Synthesis is a terrible choice for a variety of reasons and the implications of such a choice lead to far more concerns than benefits.

[Mcfly616]

What does EDI have to do with the Catalyst? The two aren't even remotely related. The Catalyst is the biggest proponent of Synthesis and it's the only choice it actively encourages Shepard to choose. You wouldn't even question for one moment if you should really take the advice of a rogue AI that has made it its purpose to eradicate all organic and synthetic live for thousands of years? I suppose that's the difference between you and me... I won't bet the fate of the galaxy on the alleged promises of a machine who is an ally to no one.

The Catalyst tells you  what the purpose of Synthesis is. EDI speaks of what it's like to live within the MEU post-Synthesis. 

 

 

It's the only choice the Catalyst encourages Shepard to choose because of the reason it was created: to find a solution to the inherent problem between organics and synthetics. I would question whether the AI is even "rogue" to begin with. Since its creation millions(possibly a billion) of years ago, its purpose has been to prevent the total eradication of "all life" at all costs.. I would always consider what a millions (possibly billion) of years old being  had to say regarding its observations over that time span.  Especially when it's own creator whom it presumes has been eradicated, still vouches for it.

 

The difference between you and I is that I won't let my own personal feelings and emotions cloud my decision on the fate of the galaxy.