214 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

What does EDI have to do with the Catalyst? The two aren't even remotely related. The Catalyst is the biggest proponent of Synthesis and it's the only choice it actively encourages Shepard to choose. You wouldn't even question for one moment if you should really take the advice of a rogue AI that has made it its purpose to eradicate all organic and synthetic live for thousands of years? I suppose that's the difference between you and me... I won't bet the fate of the galaxy on the alleged promises of a machine who is an ally to no one.

The Catalyst tells you  what the purpose of Synthesis is. EDI speaks of what it's like to live within the MEU post-Synthesis. 
 
 
It's the only choice the Catalyst encourages Shepard to choose because of the reason it was created: to find a solution to the inherent problem between organics and synthetics. I would question whether the AI is even "rogue" to begin with. Since its creation millions(possibly a billion) of years ago, its purpose has been to prevent the total eradication of "all life" at all costs.. I would always consider what a millions (possibly billion) of years old being  had to say regarding its observations over that time span.  Especially when it's own creator whom it presumes has been eradicated, still vouches for it.
 
The difference between you and I is that I won't let my own personal feelings and emotions cloud my decision on the fate of the galaxy.

[Revan Reborn]

The Catalyst tells you  what the purpose of Synthesis is. EDI speaks of what it's like to live within the MEU post-Synthesis. 

 

 

It's the only choice the Catalyst encourages Shepard to choose because of the reason it was created: to find a solution to the inherent problem between organics and synthetics. I would question whether the AI is even "rogue" to begin with. Since its creation millions(possibly a billion) of years ago, its purpose has been to prevent the total eradication of "all life" at all costs.. I would always consider what a millions (possibly billion) of years old being  had to say regarding its observations over that time span.  Especially when it's own creator whom it presumes has been eradicated, still vouches for it.

 

The difference between you and I is that I won't let my own personal feelings and emotions cloud my decision on the fate of the galaxy. 

The reason the Catalyst was created and its methods as a result are two starkly different things. The Catalyst has a very warped interpretation of what "chaos" and "order" are. There is no "inherent problem between organics and synthetics." The only problem is the Catalyst and its higly subjective view of the unfixable problem in the galaxy. The Leviathans do not agree with the Catalyst's methods at all. If you actually played Leviathan, you would see they are fighting against the Catalyst.

 

There are no "personal feelings and emotions" to be found here. I merely will not allow an AI who has committed genocide against thousands upon thousands of organics and synthetics dictate what the future of the galaxy should be. You are at this point no better than the Illusive Man. You believe your understanding and knowledge of the Catalyst is so precise, so definite, that your actions will not negatively impact the galaxy for millions of years to come. You don't even realize you have single-handedly committed the most heinous act anyone could against synthetics and organics everywhere. You have been indoctrinated.

[Mcfly616]

The reason the Catalyst was created and its methods as a result are two starkly different things. The Catalyst has a very warped interpretation of what "chaos" and "order" are. There is no "inherent problem between organics and synthetics." The only problem is the Catalyst and its higly subjective view of the unfixable problem in the galaxy. The Leviathans do not agree with the Catalyst's methods at all. If you actually played Leviathan, you would see they are fighting against the Catalyst.

 

There are no "personal feelings and emotions" to be found here. I merely will not allow an AI who has committed genocide against thousands upon thousands of organics and synthetics dictate what the future of the galaxy should be. You are at this point no better than the Illusive Man. You believe your understanding and knowledge of the Catalyst is so precise, so definite, that your actions will not negatively impact the galaxy for millions of years to come. You don't even realize you have single-handedly committed the most heinous act anyone could against synthetics and organics everywhere. You have been indoctrinated.

actually it is you who considers your own view of the Catalyst as a rogue AI so precise and definite. Your declaration that the Catalyst has a warped interpretation and that there is no inherent problem between organics and synthetics is simply your own interpretation and your own denial of the statements that the Catalyst (and Leviathan) has made. Speculation at best. Nothing more. You don't even realize by choosing destroy you might just doom all life in existence. Forever. You have been swayed by pride and a sense of what is "right".

 

If you actually played the Leviathan DLC you would hear them specifically say that it (the Catalyst) still serves its purpose. They're only fighting against it for their own survival. After all, it is the strongest instinct. 

[von uber]

For all those advocating the rainbow and unicorns synthesis, tell me how the newly sentient husks, cannibals etc fit into this marvelous new world the reaper Ai has asked you to create.

[timebean]

I always choose destroy, for many of the reasons mentioned.  However, it DOES bother me that I may have just doomed the cycle to continue repeating until all organics are wiped out...which is what the catalyst strongly implies will happen.

 

But then...i remember my actions on Rannoch.  i remember that it IS possible for organics and synthetics to coexist.  When the reapers were del;ayed (my Sheps actions), a peace was brokered between synthetics and organics.  It makes me stronggly suspetc that the same thing would have possibly happened in the first cycyle, or in countless other cycles, if the reapers had not interfered. So when organics build machines again in the future, which is likely given past cycles...then I just have to hope they will not destroy one another.

 

And if they do...then so be it. If that has been the cycle for billions of years, then perhaps organics should be wiped out.  And synthetics will become the new life int the galaxy.  Maybe dems just the breaks!

 

I STILL choose destroy given this possible fate.  Because I am not a god.  And neither is the star-child, despite his billion-year perspective.  We are both fallible (and that fallibility is explicit in the game, not just my perspective here).  Thus, I choose the option that gives organics one more chance to choose their own destiny.  To carve their own path without me as their weird god-like personality (Control) or without fundamentally altering what they are (Synthesis). I let them choose their own fate. Because I felt like that is what I am fighting for in the first place...the RIGHT for us to choose our own fate and not be wiped out by the system that some weird AI has put into place for us.

 

Just my opinion!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Except that I never argued Synthesis made races more similar externally... What Synthesis actually does do is change races internally, specifically their DNA, which obviously can't be seen. Having different images in which your Shepard clearly had a different romance, thus different companions holding Shepard's name tag, does nothing to disprove my points about Synthesis.

 

Nice try. However, it's long been established that Synthesis is a terrible choice for a variety of reasons and the implications of such a choice lead to far more concerns than benefits.

 

Except we established just a bit earlier that while people's nature change, the core of who they are remains the same.

 

Nice try indeed.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

newly sentient husks, cannibals

 

Woah there, shooter. Go back and check your lore again.

 

Husks are animated corpses. The victim is gone forever. What is left is a Reaper puppet, an extension of their ships like EDI.

 

Any given husk, pre- or post-synthesis, is just the extension of a Reaper ship.

[Iakus]

First-hand account says you're wrong.

 

EDI: "I am alive."
EDI: "I am alive(, and I am not alone)."

EDI was always alive.  SHe didn't need green space magic to make her so.

[Soultaker08]

Seriously guys , was this ending thread needed and why is it being fed,.

 

Gonna attract IT-Therrorists

[Bizantura]

Depends on your core beliefs.

 

I am not a biological machine so synthesis is not an option for me.

 

I adore diversity but not multiculturism which to me has nothing to with diversity, just the opposite.

 

What curbes freedom is often promoted as good/important/required etc... via all popular media.

[CosmicGnosis]

Might as well post this observation. Did anyone ever notice that the music that plays during the memorial scene is different in Synthesis compared to the other two endings? When they place Shepard's name on the wall, the Synthesis version is more quiet and somewhat contemplative. Destroy and Control just use the same music.

 

 

Destroy and Control

https://youtu.be/Sukngb6r-W8?t=9m38s

 

Synthesis

https://youtu.be/9xhsfdGnd1k?t=9m39s

[teh DRUMPf!!]

EDI was always alive.  SHe didn't need green space magic to make her so.

 

Yup, which confirms that Synthesis did not change her person. 

[BioWareM0d13]

Might as well post this observation. Did anyone ever notice that the music that plays during the memorial scene is different in Synthesis compared to the other two endings? When they place Shepard's name on the wall, the Synthesis version is more quiet and somewhat contemplative. Destroy and Control just use the same music.

 

 

Destroy and Control

https://youtu.be/Sukngb6r-W8?t=9m38s

 

Synthesis

https://youtu.be/9xhsfdGnd1k?t=9m39s

 

I would assume that was done probably because Shepard is actually dead and gone in Synthesis. Shepard can survive Destroy however, although the crew of the Normandy don't know it yet, and Control gets a Reaperfied Shepard A.I. Synthesis gets the slightly more mournful tone to reflect Shepard's death.

 

I'd argue Control is a death as well, but not everyone sees it that way.

[Iakus]

Yup, which confirms that Synthesis did not change her person. 

I'd say it confirms that Synthesis is utter rubbish, and Shepard dies for nothing.

[Revan Reborn]

actually it is you who considers your own view of the Catalyst as a rogue AI so precise and definite. Your declaration that the Catalyst has a warped interpretation and that there is no inherent problem between organics and synthetics is simply your own interpretation and your own denial of the statements that the Catalyst (and Leviathan) has made. Speculation at best. Nothing more. You don't even realize by choosing destroy you might just doom all life in existence. Forever. You have been swayed by pride and a sense of what is "right".

 

If you actually played the Leviathan DLC you would hear them specifically say that it (the Catalyst) still serves its purpose. They're only fighting against it for their own survival. After all, it is the strongest instinct. 

You should read your post. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Watch Perfect Destroy EC and you will realize everything is rebuilt and all the races in the galaxy are working in harmony. Again, you are not God and neither is the Catalyst. Neither one of you has the right to force evolution and change the fate of all because you "believe" your choice is "right" and "best" for everyone. That is illogical, conceited, and again, showing signs of indoctrination.

 

The Leviathans never state the Catalyst is "right." They only state it is doing what it was programmed to do, even if its variables and considerations changed drastically. They are not condoning the Catalyst's actions, they are merely rationalize it. There's a stark difference there you missed.

 

Except we established just a bit earlier that while people's nature change, the core of who they are remains the same.

 

Nice try indeed.

No. We established just a bit earlier that EDI's nature changed, but her core self remained the same. Synthesis would inherently change all organics to be much more alike, thus destroying their individuality and uniqueness. Again, Synthesis is a new form of "reaper."

[Iakus]

You should read your post. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Watch Perfect Destroy EC and you will realize everything is rebuilt and all the races in the galaxy are working in harmony. Again, you are not God and neither is the Catalyst. Neither one of you has the right to force evolution and change the fate of all because you "believe" your choice is "right" and "best" for everyone. That is illogical, conceited, and again, showing signs of indoctrination.

 

 

Utopia Justifies the Means 

[von uber]

Woah there, shooter. Go back and check your lore again.

 

Husks are animated corpses. The victim is gone forever. What is left is a Reaper puppet, an extension of their ships like EDI.

 

Any given husk, pre- or post-synthesis, is just the extension of a Reaper ship.

 

 

Whoa there. You might want to go back and rewatch the Synthesis ending, where the Husks become self aware.

[Revan Reborn]

Utopia Justifies the Means 

Sums it up beautifully. For anyone who believes Synthesis even remotely makes sense. One, you clearly missed the entire point of the trilogy and did not understand the events in Mass Effect 3. Two, you should click on this link because it corroborates with the fallacies of the Catalyst precisely. Lastly, you will see how poorly written and executed Synthesis was in Mass Effect 3, and you will shake your head at BioWare for trying to force it as the "best ending."

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Whoa there. You might want to go back and rewatch the Synthesis ending, where the Husks become self aware.

 

I've probably watched that ending more times than you have, and my explanation fits very aptly. Add in the fact that my interpretation is rooted in more logic and lore than yours, and I daresay mine is right, and yours is wrong (you'll also note the complete absence of husks in the ensuing slide-show, which alone disproves that what was shown with husks in the first place was at all significant).

 

But that's fine, you can believe something less logical and less lore-compatible if it pleases you.

 

I'd say it confirms that Synthesis is utter rubbish, and Shepard dies for nothing.

 

So EDI's life is nothing, huh?

 

Synthesis would inherently change all organics to be much more alike, thus destroying their individuality and uniqueness.

 

There is literally nothing that proves this.

 

They all share the change Synthesis imparts them with, but there is nothing shown or stated that would logically lead us to believe they've lost any individuality or uniqueness. Literally, nothing.

 

I mean, Shepard post-Lazarus is probably more Synthesis than any organic is post-Synthesis. By your logic, Lazarus should have made him lose his individuality and become like Microsoft Sam. In reality, he retained his character completely, even while the rest of his body became more machine.

[Revan Reborn]

I've probably watched that ending more times than you have, and my explanation fits very aptly. Add in the fact that my interpretation is rooted in more logic and lore than yours, and I daresay mine is right, and yours is wrong (you'll also note the complete absence of husks in the ensuing slide-show, which alone disproves that what was shown with husks in the first place was at all significant).

 

But that's fine, you can believe something less logical and less lore-compatible if it pleases you.

 

 

So EDI's life is nothing, huh?

 

 

There is literally nothing that proves this.

 

They all share the change Synthesis imparts them with, but there is nothing shown or stated that would logically lead us to believe they've lost any individuality or uniqueness. Literally, nothing.

 

I mean, Shepard post-Lazarus is probably more Synthesis than any organic is post-Synthesis. By your logic, Lazarus should have made him lose his individuality and become like Microsoft Sam. In reality, he retained his character completely, even while the rest of his body became more machine.

Sure there is. It's know as deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). The very fabric of what makes us who we are is what makes all the races in Mass Effect unique. Guess what Synthesis does? It breaks down Shepard's being in order to create a new DNA for all organics to share. To not see the homogeneity and conformity in all organic species merely shows you weren't paying attention in Biology.

 

You apparently don't understand what the Lazarus project did either. It did not change the very fabric of Shepard's being (i.e. his DNA). What happened is organic parts that weren't salveagable were replaced with synthetic parts. Shepard is still very much organic in every sense of the word. He merely had some extra pieces to glue him back together again.

[Iakus]

 

So EDI's life is nothing, huh?

 

Please show me where I said that.

 

EDI Was.  Always.  Alive.  Synthesis.  Does.  Not. Change.  That.

 

Synthesis is garbage.  It's not needed to make EDI "alive"  Nor the geth.  Feel-good space magic is not needed.  Shepard jumping into the energy beam and disintegrating is pointless.  Shepard dies for nothing because EDI was already alive.  

[StealthGamer92]

Sure there is. It's know as deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). The very fabric of what makes us who we are is what makes all the races in Mass Effect unique. Guess what Synthesis does? It breaks down Shepard's being in order to create a new DNA for all organics to share. To not see the homogeneity and conformity in all organic species merely shows you weren't paying attention in Biology.

 

You apparently don't understand what the Lazarus project did either. It did not change the very fabric of Shepard's being (i.e. his DNA). What happened is organic parts that weren't salveagable were replaced with synthetic parts. Shepard is still very much organic in every sense of the word. He merely had some extra pieces to glue him back together again.

Where does it say the "new DNA" was exactly the same for every species, or where does it say all DNA ISN'T identical for that matter? I heard it say Shepard's DNA would be used as a base to create new DNA, but not if that DNA would become the universes new copy paste exact genetic code for all species it sounds like you're assuming. They are purposefully vague here I belive.

[Revan Reborn]

Where does it say the "new DNA" was exactly the same for every species, or where does it say all DNA ISN'T identical for that matter? I heard it say Shepard's DNA would be used as a base to create new DNA, but not if that DNA would become the universes new copy paste exact genetic code for all species it sounds like you're assuming. They are purposefully vague here I belive.

I believe you are dodging what is abundantly obvious. All of the races in the galaxy were having their DNA replaced with Shepard's "new DNA." There is no assumption here. That is what the game stated from the words of the Catalyst and by the depictions from EC. Again, everybody has become more similar as a result because those who share something in common are less likely to fight over differences. That was the "solution." In order to avoid conflict, the easy way to diffuse any situation is to take away what makes people different to start.

[themikefest]

The thing says "will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new .....DNA"

 

https://youtu.be/MnoTHbvl2Wg?t=9m25s