Guest_StreetMagic_*
Either way, I think DAO handled it better simply because you could literally join a dragon cult and act just as batshit as them. It's like you're the anti-Herald of Andraste, if you take that route.
Even funnier if you kill the cult afterwards though.
I'm still not sure on the nature of dragons though. They might be related to spirits and demons. In the comics, Yavana says they used to rule pre Veil.
1 never really happens in this game. 2... there are still Fade rifts around, and it's easy enough to see that no one really wants to destroy the entire Inquisition out of spite.
By the end of the game, the only two ways a blood mage Inquisitor could NOT remain in power is if (1) an Exalted March or something of that magnitude was declared on the Inquisition. Since the Divine is from the Inquisition and you've helped the major players of Southern Thedas, this is unlikely. (2) a small-scale assassination attempt. This scenario does not exclusively apply to a blood mage Inquisitor, though; ANY Inquisitor could be subject to an assassination attempt.
Neither is blood magic. Fanbois here will defend any decision done in the game just because. That does´t mean it is not possible. If you pay me enough I will write you a story of Inquisition with blood magic. Simple, when there is a will there is a way.
That is just bull. The qun is THE monster which tried to engulf whole of Thedas. Turn people into mindless tools and destroy any free will. In another words mental blight. Anyone opposing will be destroyed, be it either physical death or mental destruction. You can´t whitewash such monstrosity and then turn around and say one blood mage is impossible. Sorry, you are just shooting your credibility out of the window.
Haven't read the whole thread but it seems to me the main problem would be the lore setup that blood magic increasingly cuts one off from the Fade, whereas the Inquisitor is inextricably linked to the Fade. You might be the one person in Thedas who could manage both, but that would also be incredibly OP.
But will it be the same story with the same consequences as the story of DA:I?
In a story-driven game, the story comes first. Player options are determined by what the developers can fit within the boundaries of that story without significantly altering it. When developing DA:I, BioWare came up with a story that didn't have room for blood mages. In DA:O and DA2, blood mages could have fit in, but BioWare still decided against them due to the lack of resources or the will to do it. In the end, those games had just ordinary mages with a few "blood magic" spells.
Yes but you are again speaking about deliberate decision, not an actual restriction. Bio decided to write a religious good two shoes jebus 2.0 without no room for rp. Does it rule out blood magic? Yes, in such settings. Does it actually rule blood magic out? No, it doesn´t.
We've obviously played different Dragon Age games. In the games I've played, only a few fanatics have views like that.
(As a side note, the idea that you can either convert or die has been central to both Christianity and Islam for a large part of their history. Religious freedom is a relatively rare phenomenon.)
It seems we have, or you have not read the codex about it, or not paying attention to the discussions in games/ party banters.
But, out of curiosity, which parts of the qun does not exist in your mind?
- forced conversion (rejection results in either death or mental rape)
-assigned role (no names, no personality, just task)
-designed breeding (no pairing, no family)
-sewing the mouths of mages turning them into living weapons. (no personality)
Since you like to make real world comparisons then here is one for you too:
How would you think the american public (as an example), would react to situation where the senate/president allows a soviet/russian, chinese or north korean spy operate openly among them handling state secrets and reporting them back to their home countries?
I was not talking about the game as it is, but about the game where blood magic exists and is properly acknowledged. Cheap plastic imitation of blood magic that only exists in the combat subgame but not in the story subgame is just a waste of developer time.
I added story acknowledgements of it in what you could do, like mind controlling Celene and freeing the mage Wardens.
This only applies in the scenario, where the Inquisitor plays their cards right. It's also possible to elect a new Divine who actively hates the Inquisitor. The new ruler of Orlais may not be a friend or an ally either. Many of the companions/chief lieutenants could also have negative approval. If the Inquisitor is a blood mage, the Inquisition itself may be their biggest enemy by the end of the game.
Many things would be easier, if Dragon Age games were just individual games with no continuity between them. The writers wouldn't have to deal with a situation, where player choices need to be acknowledged within a game, while still making sure that they have no real consequences after the game. Then we could have a blood mage Inquisitor who 1) ends up being assassinated by their companions after Corypheus has been dealt with; 2) survives the assassination attempt and flees, leaving the Inquisition without any high- or mid-level leaders; or 3) survives the assassination attempt, solidifies their hold of the Inquisition, and becomes the next major villain in the South.
One hardly needs to be a villain to be a blood mage. Also, if the Divine is also the Inquisitor's enemy, rumors of being a maleficar can be dismissed believably as just rumors, and it wouldn't necessarily destroy anything.
Haven't read the whole thread but it seems to me the main problem would be the lore setup that blood magic increasingly cuts one off from the Fade, whereas the Inquisitor is inextricably linked to the Fade. You might be the one person in Thedas who could manage both, but that would also be incredibly OP.
"The Anchor is permanent." I seriously doubt that learning blood magic would weaken such a powerful artifact, especially since Corypheus of all people was planning on using it.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Personally, I wish they'd focus on telling specific types of stories instead of trying to be one size fits all RPGs. Limited classes/races/specs where the off the wall divergences don't fit in.
But seeing that it isn't that.... And we already have Reavers, then I don't see why Blood magic was taken out. I also don't see why they took out, say, that scenario in the concept art where a male Qunari becomes divine. This game deserves to be as silly as possible. Because if you're not willing to tell a specific type of story, then nothing really matters in the end. You can't be half-assed in what you include. To me, DAI is already pretty ****** stupid. Might as well go crazy.
Personally, I wish they'd focus on telling specific types of stories instead of trying to be one size fits all RPGs. Limited classes/races/specs where the off the wall divergences don't fit in.
But seeing that it isn't that.... And we already have Reavers, then I don't see why Blood magic was taken out. I also don't see why they took out, say, that scenario in the concept art where a male Qunari becomes divine. This game deserves to be as silly as possible. Because if you're not willing to tell a specific type of story, then nothing really matters in the end. You can't be half-assed in what you include. To me, DAI is already pretty ****** stupid. Might as well go crazy.
What's wrong with this game with being too inclusive on classes/races/specializations? Just reavers?
"The Anchor is permanent." I seriously doubt that learning blood magic would weaken such a powerful artifact, especially since Corypheus of all people was planning on using it.
It should interfere with blood magic, then.
P.S. To be clear, I wouldn't have minded if blood magic was an available spec. I tended to play them in the previous games. Just speculating on reasons why it was left out. We already have too much gameplay/ story segregation as it is.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
What's wrong with this game with being too inclusive on classes/races/specializations? Just reavers?
I'm saying once you open the door to the notion of "everything goes" then it really should be everything goes. There's no good reason why blood magic is forbidden now. And no good reason why they took out the male Qunari Divine idea. It's already funny enough with a bloodsucking Qunari inquisitor who can be lauded as the new messiah and dictate who becomes Divine... so why stop there? Make him a blood mage too. And Divine to boot.
And some other things..... sky's the limit. "Behold your herald!"
My preference however is much more limited. I hate silliness. Unless it's a comedy...... but maybe that's what this is.
I'm saying once you open the door to the notion of "everything goes" then it really should be everything goes. There's no good reason why blood magic is forbidden now. And no good reason why they took out the male Qunari Divine idea. It's already funny enough with a bloodsucking Qunari inquisitor who can be lauded as the new messiah and dictate who becomes Divine... so why stop there? Make him a blood mage too. And Divine to boot.
And some other things..... sky's the limit. "Behold your herald!"
My preference however is much more limited. I hate silliness. Unless it's a comedy...... but maybe that's what this is.
How should it be limited?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
How should it be limited?
What does it matter? It isn't that limited as it is.. so they might as well push it further. You would get what you want (blood magic).
You saying that the Tevinters we encountered in the previous games were villains adds nothing new to what I said. I said that the Tevinyers we met were all "unscrupulous, selfish, insane, etc." implying that they are obviously of a more antagonistic sort.The trouble is that your descriptor would apply to all Tevinter mages who appeared in the games before Inquisition, and that wasn't because they were blood mages, but because they were villains. Moreover, there's every reason someone dissatisfied with the politics in his country would equip himself with the tools necessary to face down those who implement said politics on their own ground... that is, if he ever intended to do anything about it.
The reason why I brought up the second point is to show why someone might want to avoid blood magic. It's not just another school of magic. There is a greater danger to its practice regardless of how good one's intentions are.On the second point, in the previous two games, none of the especially dangerous forms of it were ever practiced in combat, so I doubt that'll be a major issue.
Well, I won't argue with you on this, but I would prefer to have some supporting source. Oh well.The wiki is a poor source for approval points. I know he does so if you become a necromancer, and I'm reasonably sure he does so for a rift mage too.
What does it matter? It isn't that limited as it is.. so they might as well push it further. You would get what you want (blood magic).
Because I'm curious as to what your opinions are.
You saying that the Tevinters we encountered in the previous games were villains adds nothing new to what I said. I said that the Tevinyers we met were all "unscrupulous, selfish, insane, etc." implying that they are obviously of a more antagonistic sort.
Dorian stands as an example of the fact that villainy, corruption, and blood magic are not things inherent to Tevinter.
Dorian is also set up as "The Idealist." Blood magic has never been portrayed as a path taken by those defined by their ideals. Even when portrayed sypathetically through Merrill, it is used with an "ends justify the means" sort of mentality. Having Dorian be a blood mage breaks the concept of him being an idealist and makes him more like a "he who fights monsters" sort.
But blood magic isn't an inherent minus. And Merrill is pretty defined in her ideals; she used blood magic because it was the only option, but that doesn't make her less idealistic. One could be trying to redeem the stigma attached to that school as well.
Well, I won't argue with you on this, but I would prefer to have some supporting source. Oh well.
I'll see if I can take a screenshot on this playthrough.
I don't care for blood magic, but I don't see why they didn't put it in. Reavers are just as problematic. And they made it very hand-wavey, as far as companion disapproval goes. If they want to cop out on that, they might as well have copped out on blood magic.
What is so problematic about Reavers? I read the codex for it across all three games and the main thing I'm getting from it is that you just drink dragon's blood to get into a frenzy. It doesn't seem as sketchy as blood magic, which has a risk of bringing you closer to demons/abomination.
I don't really understand how Reavers work tbh, can anyone explain it to me?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Because I'm curious as to what your opinions are.
My opinions wouldn't be that popular. I like localized and/or detailed protagonists. Like Hawke. Rather than applying the DAO formula to every story.
If I bought a book on dwarves, I don't want to read about an elf who becomes their king. Same here. I think the Inquisitor would have been fine with people who actually have a stake in the issues explored. City elves, humans especially. And I think their skillsets wouldn't be so controversial or alarming to the people who they're entrusted with (Chantry characters especially). They woudn't be cutting their wrists or feeding off of corpses. Or if you do include that, then you should have people -- even squadmates -- constantly trying to kill you.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
What is so problematic about Reavers? I read the codex for it across all three games and the main thing I'm getting from it is that you just drink dragon's blood to get into a frenzy. It doesn't seem as sketchy as blood magic, which has a risk of bringing you closer to demons/abomination.
I don't really understand how Reavers work tbh, can anyone explain it to me?
It's blood based, and magical. It's got some relation to blood magic, just for the elements involved. They aren't regular warriors. They feed off life energy, and like blood mages, gain strength and power the more damage they take. It's not outright bloodletting, but it's basically the same principle.
Blood magic is not something that can just be added to the base game at this point or added in their normal dlcs. It would require too much of a overhaul or too much in the way of content addition to Inquisition in it's current state. If they intend to create an expansion pack later on then it is conceivable that blood magic could be added in then but it would still clash with the current vibe of the Inquisition being a heavily chantry-influenced organisation. More realistically a better hope for seeing the return of blood magic would be to wait for DA4
-D-
It seems we have, or you have not read the codex about it, or not paying attention to the discussions in games/ party banters.
But, out of curiosity, which parts of the qun does not exist in your mind?
One hardly needs to be a villain to be a blood mage. Also, if the Divine is also the Inquisitor's enemy, rumors of being a maleficar can be dismissed believably as just rumors, and it wouldn't necessarily destroy anything.
Despite all the issues you mentioned, people still seek the Qun at their own initiative, because it offers them better life. Thedas is not the West, where people are wealthy and free to do whatever they want. It's a world of extreme poverty and widespread oppression, where life is cheap and monsters are real.
The Qun is mainly a threat to the privileged upper classes, because it threatens their way of life. For almost everyone else, it just replaces one oppressor with another, and may provide a bit more security and stability.
They horribly enslave and mutilate mages, and any of the lower class who resisted would be mind raped into submission.
Not all blood mages are villains, but all of them are perceived as such. This is one piece of lore DA:I didn't change, so a blood mage Inquisitor would still be perceived as a villain. Instead of telling the story of a hero fighting a villain, the story would be about two villains fighting over the control of Southern Thedas. That could be an interesting story, especially if one of the villains wasn't really a villain, but its consequences wouldn't be compatible with the story of DA:I.
See above about rumors and their dismissability.
They horribly enslave and mutilate mages, and any of the lower class who resisted would be mind raped into submission.
See above about rumors and their dismissability.
That's not so different from how Inquisition's armies treat their enemies. Warfare is always brutal, and primitive warfare is especially brutal.
Er, no. I don't think the Inquisition has ever engaged in either slavery or mental destruction.
This isn't the West, where postmodern intellectuals are suspicious of all authorities on principle. Thedas is a more traditional setting, where authorities are authorities and critical thinking is rare. If the Divine (=the highest moral and spiritual authority in the world) says that the Inquisitor is a blood mage, people believe her, especially if she personally knew the Inquisitor.
The Divine and other authorities could also start preaching that the Qun is the ultimate evil. At the moment they don't do so, because most of Thedas is at peace with the Qunari, and the Qunari are useful in keeping the Tevinter Imperium distracted.
Rumormongering, however, is not rare. And it's easy enough to say that the Divine just doesn't want to start a war with the Inquisition.
But blood magic isn't an inherent minus. And Merrill is pretty defined in her ideals; she used blood magic because it was the only option, but that doesn't make her less idealistic. One could be trying to redeem the stigma attached to that school as well.
I'll see if I can take a screenshot on this playthrough.
Merrill has strong ideals, but her use of blood magic is the quality of her character that prevents her from being an idealist. She is willing to compromise some beliefs (that blood magic is too dangerous) in order to achieve her goals. Merrill's actions are more in line with consequentialism than idealism (though this still is not a perfect match for her character.)
We already had a great deal of Merrill's arc devoted to showing that the stigma against blood magic wasn't entirely justified (the friendship path, at least.) Did you simply want a rehash of that? Beyond that I'd think that a campaign to redeem blood magic would undermine Dorian's character. He already has that awkward comment about not getting that slavery is a big deal. To have him have to devote time to try to convince everyone that blood magic is okay would further undermine sympathy for his cause.
Merrill has strong ideals, but her use of blood magic is the quality of her character that prevents her from being an idealist. She is willing to compromise some beliefs (that blood magic is too dangerous) in order to achieve her goals. Merrill's actions are more in line with consequentialism than idealism (though this still is not a perfect match for her character.)
But she never gave any indication of having that belief to begin with.
We already had a great deal of Merrill's arc devoted to showing that the stigma against blood magic wasn't entirely justified (the friendship path, at least.) Did you simply want a rehash of that? Beyond that I'd think that a campaign to redeem blood magic would undermine Dorian's character. He already has that awkward comment about not getting that slavery is a big deal. To have him have to devote time to try to convince everyone that blood magic is okay would further undermine sympathy for his cause.
Given what much of the playerbase has said, it's evidently necessary. And if his line about slavery had to be fiddled with to compensate for blood magic, that's really no loss.
But she never gave any indication of having that belief to begin with.
Given what much of the playerbase has said, it's evidently necessary. And if his line about slavery had to be fiddled with to compensate for blood magic, that's really no loss.
It is the belief she would have been raised with, and that was shared by the rest of her clan. There is no reason to believe that she would have such different views. However, regardless of any personal views, she discarded her clan's traditions by ignoring the guidance of the Keeper. She ignored her teachings and risked quite a bit in order to achieve a favorable outcome.
It is not really necessary. Some people will hold to completely unfounded views regardless of the evidence presented in the game. To constantly reiterate the same point over and over will not convince them that they are wrong. They will simply become annoyed by characters that they view as idiotic.
Also, Dorian's line about slavery is far more important than any he would have about blood magic because that is something that is inherent to Tevinter.
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