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[themikefest]

Tela Visor 

 

Too bad she couldn't be a squadmate instead of .........

[DaemionMoadrin]

It's like watching an old James Bond film - no one can shoot if their life depended on it, too much done to look "cool" - e.g. Thane hesitating before shooting Kai Leng, etc. I think Kai Leng was BioWare's way of saying, "We need something to stop Shepard succeeding in these situations". I don't have a problem with it, I just think it could have been a lot better.

 

Yes, they could have. I understand that they needed a named person to represent Cerberus on the frontlines because TIM would never be there personally... but honestly... if you never read the novels (I didn't) before playing the game, then Kai Leng came out of nowhere and people treated him as if I should know about him.

 

Cerberus's advantage was they had massive resources, influential people backing them and a genius strategist pulling the strings. It would have been possible to set up situations where Shepard simply couldn't win and needed all of their skills just to survive. Something like always being a minute too late or whatever.

 

Shepard is one of the best Spectres, a group chosen primarily for their martial skills. It makes no sense that they would suddendly lose in combat against anything less than an actual Reaper.

[CrutchCricket]

The Rachni wars were the Leviathans, trying to recruit a species to battle the Reapers. As far as I remember.

Do you have a source for this? I was actually wondering about this in another thread.
 

Sovereign had indoctrinated Saren and Benezia. Between the two of them they should have managed to sneak someone onto the Citadel and execute the relay procedure. Saren was a Spectre, he had all clearances and could have simply walked in while the Council wasn't in session. No one needed the Conduit at all, everyone involved had access to the front door, there was no need to find a back door. Neither would Sovereign have needed the Geth.

It's possible the proceedure for opening the Citadel was too complex for two organics to handle. It might've tried to forcibly input the data into their minds, but that would decrease their effectiveness, as we are told indoctrination does.
 

Even assuming that Sovereign needed to dock with the Citadel to accomplish its goals, it could have pretended to be an ancient prothean vessel which was found by Saren. Again, who's going to say no to the top Spectre if he wants to dock his ship so everyone's scientists can go aboard and study it? They would have welcomed him with open arms, because they were all eager to know more and were greedy for more new tech.
I am sure that there are several other ways to accomplish its goals without firing a single shot.

Ships don't dock right at the Presidium, at the council chamber. As fascinating as the Protheans are, the Council would've raised an eyebrow at that request. And if it was a Prothean ship, why bring it to the Citadel to study it? Given what we know of the asari and their beacon shenanigans, they would've insisted that it be studied at Thessia. Refusing would've also raised some eyebrows.
 

Sovereign fucked up badly on Eden Prime. First of all, it wasn't necessary to show itself, it could have sent Geth ships instead. Secondly, transforming the colonists and scientists into husks had no purpose and hinted at something else.
Saren's experiments with the Rachni queen and the Krogan clones made no sense either. What would those be used for? The Reapers didn't need them. Was Sovereign just humouring Saren? Was it a hobby?

The rachni queen was the only living thing that remembered the location of the Mu relay which led to Ilos, which is where the Conduit was. The krogan facility was to keep the krogan loyal. Perhaps it was also to keep Saren loyal as in his mind he was beginning the work of perfecting life, or whatever he was on about.
 

Speaking of hobbies, what was up with Harbinger's little project? Collectors? Building a human Reaper? Why? What for?

Meh, get the ball rolling? Humans had proven themselves a threat. A human Reaper would've done wonders in terms of understanding our strengths and weaknesses as well as a huge blow to morale for us. Was it strictly necessary? No. But since Harbinger could do it, a better question would be why not?
 

Last but not least, the Reapers are a flawed creation and they do not make sense. Every Reaper is a gestalt AI which consists of millions of advanced, sentient programs. What do they need the genetic material of the dead races for? If the Reapers are storage devices for the history, culture, technology and knowledge of the races they wiped out, why would they risk themselves in combat? Doesn't that go against their directives of preserving organic life in Reaper form?

The organic component heightens their processing power above those of comperable machines (not that there are any) somehow. Either it has bases in actual organic computing (which is a thing) or it's mostly technobabble. But still along the principle of "strengths of both, weaknesses of neither". I could get more into it but I gotta go.
 

The Thorian was creepy and could have been more... except I kind of killed it in ME1. So there was no role for it to play in ME3.

Like it'd be the first time something has turned out to be "not quite dead". Or whoever said that was the only one?
 

Aria is so a villain. She's a warlord, the ruler of Omega, the leader of all gang leaders. How is she not a villain? If you asked her, she'd tell you she is.

But she's on our side.
 

P.S. I love Mass Effect but the writers didn't create good antagonists. The entire story only makes sense in hindsight, from the perspective of Commander Shepard. Just one example: On the first mission to Eden Prime you're accompanied by a Spectre named Nihlus who wants to evalute your skills because you are considered to become the first human Spectre. The problem is... Eden Prime was not planned to be a combat mission. If Sovereign and the Geth hadn't attacked, then the Normandy would have landed on a peaceful, agricultural planet, Shepard would have signed for the Prothean Beacon and then they would have flown to the Citadel. The only thing Nihlus could have judged would have been Shepard's prowess with paperwork.
And let's just forget about how the Council publically announces and broadcasts galaxywide the identity of their newest secret agent. Who becomes a celebrity that endorses stores on the Citadel. Yeah...

That wasn't to be the only mission Shepard was judged on. He would be evaluated over a period of time, on a number of different missions. Sad that Nihlus bought it. He was kinda cool.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The point they were trying to make with Leng.... was in TIM's own overall viewpoint about using all of the Reaper tech to evolve humanity. He considers Shep a "relic". And Leng has battle banter about being the next level of evolution. 

 

Shepard, in his own words, is "just a soldier..." He's supposed to be just some human fighting with sheer balls. That's why Vega calls him "loco". He's ****** crazy.

 

Shepard is literally the best of the best of the best in the entire galaxy. And then some stranger walks up to them and beats their ass? Ehh.... hard to swallow. Even with Reaper tech upgrades.

[DaemionMoadrin]

1. Do you have a source for this? I was actually wondering about this in another thread.
 

2. It's possible the proceedure for opening the Citadel was too complex for two organics to handle. It might've tried to forcibly input the data into their minds, but that would decrease their effectiveness, as we are told indoctrination does.
 

3. Ships don't dock right at the Presidium, at the council chamber. As fascinating as the Protheans are, the Council would've raised an eyebrow at that request. And if it was a Prothean ship, why bring it to the Citadel to study it? Given what we know of the asari and their beacon shenanigans, they would've insisted that it be studied at Thessia. Refusing would've also raised some eyebrows.
 

4. The rachni queen was the only living thing that remembered the location of the Mu relay which led to Ilos, which is where the Conduit was. The krogan facility was to keep the krogan loyal. Perhaps it was also to keep Saren loyal as in his mind he was beginning the work of perfecting life, or whatever he was on about.
 

5. Meh, get the ball rolling? Humans had proven themselves a threat. A human Reaper would've done wonders in terms of understanding our strengths and weaknesses as well as a huge blow to morale for us. Was it strictly necessary? No. But since Harbinger could do it, a better question would be why not?
 

6. The organic component heightens their processing power above those of comperable machines (not that there are any) somehow. Either it has bases in actual organic computing (which is a thing) or it's mostly technobabble. But still along the principle of "strengths of both, weaknesses of neither". I could get more into it but I gotta go.
 

7. Like it'd be the first time something has turned out to be "not quite dead". Or whoever said that was the only one?
 

8. But she's on our side.
 

9. That wasn't to be the only mission Shepard was judged on. He would be evaluated over a period of time, on a number of different missions. Sad that Nihlus bought it. He was kinda cool.

1. The wiki says this: While searching for the mythical Leviathan, one of Dr. Garret Bryson's ideas to track the creature is to use galactic activity patterns of the ancient rachni at the time of the Rachni Wars. Bryson theorized that Leviathan may have been responsible for provoking the rachni in a bid to create an army to face the Reapers in the next harvest, and so rachni activity would correlate to Leviathan activity. The theory turns out to be irrelevant in the search for possible Leviathan sites, however, and whether Bryson surmised correctly that Leviathan caused the Rachni Wars is unknown.

 

It makes sense though and there is no evidence against it.

 

2. Saren initiated the procedure himself in the end, so it didn't seem to be too complex.

 

3. Sovereign didn't dock at the Presidium, it just took that position because the actual docking facilities are in the arms and those were in motion at the time. Or whatever, I don't know. It could have made physical contact without aggression is what I am saying.

 

4. Yes, the location of a relay leading to a facility no one needed. The Conduit was useless until Sovereign/Saren revealed themselves and needed it to circumvent their Most Wanted status. What did Sovereign need loyal Krogans for?

 

5. The Reapers wiped out the Protheans 50.000 years ago. Why did Harbinger create the Collectors back then? Were they that cycle's Marauders, Cannibals and Husks? Why keep them for millennia and then casually reveal their existence in exchange for rare bio matter? Sovereign was tasked with monitoring the cycle, did Harbing want a second opinion? Really, it looks like bossing the Collectors around was a hobby/entertainment for Harbinger while it waited in dark space.

 

6. Let's go with technobabble.

 

7. The colonists made very, very sure the Thorian was dead. It comes up during ME2, if you left Shiala alive.

 

8. Yes, Aria is on our side. Kind of. That means she's not an antagonist. She's a villain though. And a renegade Shepard is pretty much the same as her. Which Aria acknowledges with a kiss.

 

9. That was never mentioned anywhere.

[TheN7Penguin]

Mass Effect 3 missed awesome renegade lines.

 

I can just imagine TIM and Shepard.

 

TIM: "I am going to stop you destroying them, Shepard."

 

Shepard: "Stop this." *pulls out pistol and shoots TIM in the head*

[DaemionMoadrin]

Aria isn't a villain. She's just a businesswoman in her own little space and only has one rule. "Don't **** with Aria."

 

She has no clear enemies, "no time for hate", and no ultimate plan other than watching strippers and selling eezo.. And when you tell her she's just as ruthless as Petrovsky, she makes a point of saying "But the people were free. Their lives were their own." She has a laid back sense of dominance over Omega. Not only does that make her better than Cerberus, but even Nassana Dantius was worse.

 

Exactly. She's still a villain, she obeys no laws but her own.

[TheN7Penguin]

She is a villain. She is a criminal. By Spectre logic - she is an enemy.

[TheN7Penguin]

Their primary responsibility is to preserve galactic stability by whatever means necessary. Criminals tend to upset stability. This may not be true with Aria, since she generally keeps Omega in check, but criminals and Spectres would be opposing forces 95% of the time.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

She (Aria) is a villain. She is a criminal. By Spectre logic - she is an enemy.

 

But ME1 practically forces Shepard into being a dirty cop. And let's not forget ME2 as well. You're practically dumpster diving for credits. You're doing jobs for criminal scum. You're robbing bank ATMs and robbing peoples apartments. You're corpse looting... like if you let that sick Batarian die you can take 2000 CR off him. And that human couple.... did you take the 4000 CR out of their wall safe?

 

Kolyat: Stop or he dies!

Shepard: *kills Talid*

Kolyat: Oh Gods!

Shepard (holstering weapon): A hostage only matters when your enemy cares about them.

 

 

Shepard: So what do we do with another you?

Jack: I don't know. What should I do?

Shepard: You're a killer, Jack. What do killers do?

*Bang*

Shepard: A bullet in the head solves everything.

Jack: I know that now.

 

Before you judge her, take a good look in the mirror. You're a criminal, too. Don't you dare judge her. Don't you dare.

[TheN7Penguin]

Most, no. But where crime is concerned, pennies make pounds. The smallest operation can cause large effects in terms of stability. And if Spectres JUST focused on HUGEEE things like Reapers and Rachni and the like, they'd be bored most of the time and would barely be paid. They must stop SOME crime, whether it is a big operation like the Blood Pack, or smaller operations like drug smuggling.

[TheN7Penguin]

Of course, it would entirely depend on the situation. But there would always be things happening to upset stability. And I feel that Spectres would take a larger role in terms of crime than is actually shown.

[themikefest]

You're corpse looting... like if you let that sick Batarian die you can take 2000 CR off him.

I had to. It was the difference between having that upgrade for my weapon or not having it. It was done for a worthy cause.
 

And that human couple.... did you take the 4000 CR out of their wall safe?

I did that so I could buy that model to put in my cabin. What made it even worse, I didn't bother sticking around to help them. I'm such a lowlife.

[CrutchCricket]

1. The wiki says this: While searching for the mythical Leviathan, one of Dr. Garret Bryson's ideas to track the creature is to use galactic activity patterns of the ancient rachni at the time of the Rachni Wars. Bryson theorized that Leviathan may have been responsible for provoking the rachni in a bid to create an army to face the Reapers in the next harvest, and so rachni activity would correlate to Leviathan activity. The theory turns out to be irrelevant in the search for possible Leviathan sites, however, and whether Bryson surmised correctly that Leviathan caused the Rachni Wars is unknown.
 
It makes sense though and there is no evidence against it.
 
2. Saren initiated the procedure himself in the end, so it didn't seem to be too complex.
 
3. Sovereign didn't dock at the Presidium, it just took that position because the actual docking facilities are in the arms and those were in motion at the time. Or whatever, I don't know. It could have made physical contact without aggression is what I am saying.
 
4. Yes, the location of a relay leading to a facility no one needed. The Conduit was useless until Sovereign/Saren revealed themselves and needed it to circumvent their Most Wanted status. What did Sovereign need loyal Krogans for?
 
5. The Reapers wiped out the Protheans 50.000 years ago. Why did Harbinger create the Collectors back then? Were they that cycle's Marauders, Cannibals and Husks? Why keep them for millennia and then casually reveal their existence in exchange for rare bio matter? Sovereign was tasked with monitoring the cycle, did Harbing want a second opinion? Really, it looks like bossing the Collectors around was a hobby/entertainment for Harbinger while it waited in dark space.
 
6. Let's go with technobabble.
 
7. The colonists made very, very sure the Thorian was dead. It comes up during ME2, if you left Shiala alive.
 
8. Yes, Aria is on our side. Kind of. That means she's not an antagonist. She's a villain though. And a renegade Shepard is pretty much the same as her. Which Aria acknowledges with a kiss.
 
9. That was never mentioned anywhere.

1. That may have been a retcon. In ME2 the queen's envoy mentions a "sour note" in their song which forced them to keep attacking. As this was before Leviathans were concieved in the canon, it would then point to the Reapers.
 
2. Saren opened the Citadel arms, he didn't activate the Dark Relay. Sovereign was presumably doing that after it entered and the Citadel closed again. The fact that Reapers didn't immediately start pouring through indicates the process takes a while. This may be mitigated somewhat by his control of Saren once he died as this noticably affected it (lowered its shields allowing the Normandy and the fleets to destroy it).
 
3. Its arms were wrapping around the Presidium, specifically the Citadel tower. Source and img:

Saren closes the Wards around Sovereign while it positions itself at the Citadel Tower, extruding numerous small tubes from its underside and into the structure. It then begins to override the station's controls and manually open the relay to dark space.

Tell me it could've done this without raising alarms.

4. Saren wasn't most wanted after Eden Prime, the Council was skeptical and Sovereign wasn't on anybody radar apart from being a really weird ship Shepard saw. It was Tali's evidence of Saren's conversation that damned him and that was Saren's mistake, not Sovereign's. Saren also didn't know what the Conduit was, at least until he got his copy of the Cipher. And Soverein didn't necesarily need loyal Krogan. But Saren did. Given you fight quite a few of them on Ilos and the Citadel, I think they did their part. I'd imagine most of the geth programs (heretics) would be in the fleet during the final assault.
 
5. The Protheans couldn't be made into a Reaper for some reason. So they were converted into Collectors so they could still be useful (and, given the holokid bullshit, so something at least could be preserved). And revealing them to this cycle wouldn't matter since most people wouldn't know Reapified creatures when they saw them and even so, the Collectors look quite distinct from other husks, like Marauders. They're more insect like, less metallic for one. And yeah why wouldn't there be a backup plan, even with the Reapers?
 
6. Technobabble but with some leads in real principles.
 
7. Yes, I'm sure the backwater colonists are leading authorities on an ancient form of plant life never before encountered that's totally different from anything we've seen. Yeah it probably is. But there are wide open ways to bring it back. It's not quite dead, it grew somewhere else. You find another one. Honestly it would've been better to go with that rather than the Leviathans=organic Reapers we ended up with.
 
8. A villain that is the protagonist is called, funnily enough the villain-protagonist. Or anti-hero depending on how far their evil traits go. Aria isn't the protagonist. But she is on the right side.
 
9.Source: ME wiki article Nihlus Kryik-

Nihlus intends to accompany Shepard on several missions, and would likely have become Shepard's mentor, but events take a tragic turn.

[CrutchCricket]

Rage at the character herself, or the fight? I like has as an antagonist because she brings up a good point on her death and because of Shepard's awesome renegade lines in the hostage encounter

Everything about her infuriates me. Her fight, her conversations, the bullshit way I'm not allowed to fill her useless corpse full of lead or grains of sand or whatever the hell we're shooting.

 

Before you judge her, take a good look in the mirror. You're a criminal, too. Don't you dare judge her. Don't you dare.

Like I said before. I won't judge her. My gun, all the ammo in it and any other ordanance I control will judge her. And it'll be very, very messy.

 

Speaking of, it's time to void my lunch.