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BioWare, take cues from CDPR with TW3 Expansion Pass.


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#476
Sanunes

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Well, for one, the hair style selection in DAI is atrocious. I wasn't even making an argument about that. What I'm focusing more on is 30 hours of content for $24.99 versus at most 10 hours of content for $14.99. In TW3, you are getting three times as much for only an additional $10.00. If you split the two expansions, CDPR is pricing the 10 hour expansion at $9.99 and the 20 hour expansion at $19.99. For five dollars less I get at least the equivalent of Jaws of Hakkon but possibly more. For five dollars more I get double the amount of content that Jaws of Hakkon offers. Do you see the disparity now?

 

I know what you are saying, but I completely disagree that we know its going to be one hour of content per dollar invested with the expansion pass for The Witcher 3 for developers have never been able to accurately judge how long it will take me to go through their game.  With Inquisition I know it took me 12 hours for the $15 I spent because I played the DLC, for all I know when they release the expansions for The Witcher I might get the same time per dollar ratio or it might wind up being less content per dollar spent too.



#477
SolNebula

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Well we will see how this is going to play out when TW3 release. I will gladly continue this conversation in a couple of months.

Since then let's wait for more content from DAI (still haven't played JoH due to Microsoft/EA BS agreement).


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#478
Revan Reborn

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I know what you are saying, but I completely disagree that we know its going to be one hour of content per dollar invested with the expansion pass for The Witcher 3 for developers have never been able to accurately judge how long it will take me to go through their game.  With Inquisition I know it took me 12 hours for the $15 I spent because I played the DLC, for all I know when they release the expansions for The Witcher I might get the same time per dollar ratio or it might wind up being less content per dollar spent too.

Fair enough. We will see soon enough.

 

Well we will see how this is going to play out when TW3 release. I will gladly continue this conversation in a couple of months.

Since then let's wait for more content from DAI (still haven't played JoH due to Microsoft/EA BS agreement).

Yep. Sadly, those kinds of deals will happen more often now that Microsoft and EA are in a partnership. I could buy the new DLC (PC gamer and Xbox One owner), but $14.99 for what BioWare is offering seems rather steep in my opinion. I'll wait to see what else BioWare releases, if anything. So far, I'm not impressed.


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#479
AlexMBrennan

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There has been a hate storm with every Witcher game since the original in 2007

That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy

#480
SolNebula

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That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy

 

Don't worry you are forgiven. Enjoy more of the same politically correct content.


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#481
Heimdall

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That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy

I might not go that far, but I agree with the sentiment.

I enjoyed it overall, but the Witcher was a game with clunky repetitive combat, a plot that took forever to get anywhere interesting, a pre-defined protagonist with minimal roleplaying opportunities, or chance to develop a sense of ownership over Geralt.

And let's not start on the juvenile "sex card" business.

Everytime someone holds it up as a paragon of the RPG genre, I roll my eyes, as the Witcher is barely an RPG in my book.

#482
Sunnie

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As far as I can tell, nobody here hates CDPR or expects TW3 to be a flop. They're just tired of people putting them on a pedestal they don't deserve.

This.. sort of, mostly. I don't dislike CDPR, I think they have done well in the market considering they are an independent developer, even though I really dislike the Witcher series for a number of reasons.
 

Despite this hating bunch. TW3 is going to be the RPG of 2015. It is going to sell well and a lot of the haters here are going to buy it. Looking forward for a comparison thread in the offtopic section.

How about not making a thread for a competitor game and instead making it over on the Witcher forum. 194297.gif

Those kind of threads are never the "comparison" threads they are intended to be, they end up being a free-for-all fight between fanboys from both sides.



#483
AlanC9

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Isn't this getting way OT? Like TW, don't like it, whatever, it doesn't have much to do with DLC strategy.

#484
MisterJB

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Are you positive about that? Aside from the GotY edition, which is a bundle and doesn't count, I only see digital downloadarrow-10x10.png for PC and the Xbox 360 available. None of the DLC for Oblivion, besides Shivering Isles, was available for as a physical copy. All of that had to be downloadedarrow-10x10.png via Xbox LIVE.

Positive. I once bought a physical cd that contained Point Lookout and Broken Steel for PC.



#485
Majestic Jazz

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I 100% agree with the OP. I personally believe that Bioware's current stance on expansions vs dlc is more EA influenced. When Bioware says that they wont do expansions cause they are expensive, then I have to point them to GTA4's Lost and Damned and Ballad of Gag Tony as well as Red Dead Redemption's Undead Nightmare. I doubt Rockstar/Take Two took fincancial declines with the outcome of their expansions. I Bioware really tried and EA gave them the full support, I am 100% confident that a DAI (if it is as successful as EA claims it to be) expansion would be VERY successful. Especially if it explores new locations, expands on romances and continues the IQ's story on and end game level.

I even believe a ME4 expansion would sell well.

This is why I WANT the two expansions of TW3 to be hits just to show that there IS a narket for them and that they CAN be profitable.
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#486
Revan Reborn

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That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy

This is one of the most ignorant and uninformed statements I have ever read on this forum. Posters, like yourself, clearly have no understanding of the franchise and why BioWare can learn from CDPR in a number of ways. Contrary to popular belief, ignorance is not bliss.

 

I 100% agree with the OP. I personally believe that Bioware's current stance on expansions vs dlc is more EA influenced. When Bioware says that they wont do expansions cause they are expensive, then I have to point them to GTA4's Lost and Damned and Ballad of Gag Tony as well as Red Dead Redemption's Undead Nightmare. I doubt Rockstar/Take Two took fincancial declines with the outcome of their expansions. I Bioware really tried and EA gave them the full support, I am 100% confident that a DAI (if it is as successful as EA claims it to be) expansion would be VERY successful. Especially if it explores new locations, expands on romances and continues the IQ's story on and end game level.

I even believe a ME4 expansion would sell well.

This is why I WANT the two expansions of TW3 to be hits just to show that there IS a narket for them and that they CAN be profitable.

Thank you for your contribution. It's nice to see others who actually want to see BioWare make a better product and not sacrifice quality for corporate greed.



#487
Heimdall

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This is one of the most ignorant and uninformed statements I have ever read on this forum. Posters, like yourself, clearly have no understanding of the franchise and why BioWare can learn from CDPR in a number of ways. Contrary to popular belief, ignorance is not bliss.

See, this is why I have a serious problem with your general attitude. You treat your own viewpoint as gospel.

It's perfectly possible for two people to understand something and come away with different opinions/evaluations.

By claiming that his opinion is based lack of understanding, you attempt to discredit his view, but there's no reason both of your opinions can't be based on understanding.

In other words: you have different tastes, get over it.

#488
wolfhowwl

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Don't worry you are forgiven. Enjoy more of the same politically correct content.

 

He's right about the mechanically suboptimal part. Christ, that's three dollars I'm never getting back.

 

Always pirate before you buy everyone.

 

I 100% agree with the OP. I personally believe that Bioware's current stance on expansions vs dlc is more EA influenced. When Bioware says that they wont do expansions cause they are expensive, then I have to point them to GTA4's Lost and Damned and Ballad of Gag Tony as well as Red Dead Redemption's Undead Nightmare. I doubt Rockstar/Take Two took fincancial declines with the outcome of their expansions. I Bioware really tried and EA gave them the full support, I am 100% confident that a DAI (if it is as successful as EA claims it to be) expansion would be VERY successful. Especially if it explores new locations, expands on romances and continues the IQ's story on and end game level.

I even believe a ME4 expansion would sell well.

This is why I WANT the two expansions of TW3 to be hits just to show that there IS a narket for them and that they CAN be profitable.

 

Each of those games have outsold the entire Dragon Age franchise.



#489
Andraste_Reborn

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You can't appreciate anything if you give up on it after an hour... You are missing out.

 

Maybe after playing for more than an hour I would somehow have learned not to hate the combat, the user interface, the art design and the dialogue. But I have a hard time believing I would have ever not hated playing as Geralt, which is the primary reason I gave up and uninstalled. I don't like fixed protagonists in cRPGs to begin with, and the idea of playing as a character I instantly disliked for thirty more hours was not appealing at all.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying that The Witcher is a bad game. I know lots of people that love it. I'm just sure I'm never going to be one of those people, in the same way I'm never going to be a fan of Skyrim or Dark Souls. Or Quake or Myst or Super Mario World for that matter.


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#490
rashie

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As far as I understand it, what CDPR is doing with their expansions are more akin to what bioware used to do with things like throne of bhaal  and awakening,  i.e actual expansion pack and not just a 4-6 hours of additional content. But it is more financially costly, and thus need to sell more to justify production.

 

Regardless, I think its far too early to make a statement like this when Witcher 3 isn't even out yet and we only have the concept idea of what CDPR is doing in their expansions thus far.



#491
LinksOcarina

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See, this is why I have a serious problem with your general attitude. You treat your own viewpoint as gospel.

It's perfectly possible for two people to understand something and come away with different opinions/evaluations.

By claiming that his opinion is based lack of understanding, you attempt to discredit his view, but there's no reason both of your opinions can't be based on understanding.

In other words: you have different tastes, get over it.

 

This is how demagogue's work.

 

Demagogue's are fanatical like that,makes them sycophantic in their delusional superiority to others, especially when they are challenged and say nothing back.

 

Again, why the hell is anyone even bothering in this thread still by replying to the fringe? There is little rational discussion going on, only grandstanding and jingoism. 


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#492
Revan Reborn

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See, this is why I have a serious problem with your general attitude. You treat your own viewpoint as gospel.

It's perfectly possible for two people to understand something and come away with different opinions/evaluations.

By claiming that his opinion is based lack of understanding, you attempt to discredit his view, but there's no reason both of your opinions can't be based on understanding.

In other words: you have different tastes, get over it.

"That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy"

 

Read very closely. This is not an opinion or a reasoned argument. This is blatant ignorance. "Collectible porn car minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word" is more than enough evidence to suggest this person has never actually played any Witcher title for any long period of time. Nothing more than soundbites meant to elicit revulsion and a reaction from those gullible to believe it. I'm more than happy to accept an opinion that critiques and explains through reason why they don't appreciate the game. What I will ignore and refute are stereotypes and the kinds of "opinions" you will find on Kotaku or IGN.

 

 

Maybe after playing for more than an hour I would somehow have learned not to hate the combat, the user interface, the art design and the dialogue. But I have a hard time believing I would have ever not hated playing as Geralt, which is the primary reason I gave up and uninstalled. I don't like fixed protagonists in cRPGs to begin with, and the idea of playing as a character I instantly disliked for thirty more hours was not appealing at all.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying that The Witcher is a bad game. I know lots of people that love it. I'm just sure I'm never going to be one of those people, in the same way I'm never going to be a fan of Skyrim or Dark Souls. Or Quake or Myst or Super Mario World for that matter.

In fairness, the game came out in 2007. Try playing KotOR and you'll realize how dated the combat, user interface, art design and dialogue are...

 

That's a personal choice and you are entitled to that. If I'm going to invest capital into a game, I'm going to put a bit more of an effort to see whether I like it or not. Playing an hour of The Witcher is like playing 10 minutes of an MMORPG and deciding it's not for you. To try and grasp whether an MMO is worth it or not in 10 minutes is quite frankly ridiculous. To each his own.

 

As far as I understand it, what CDPR is doing with their expansions are more akin to what bioware used to do with things like throne of bhaal  and awakening,  i.e actual expansion pack and not just a 4-6 hours of additional content. But it is more financially costly, and thus need to sell more to justify production.

 

Regardless, I think its far too early to make a statement like this when Witcher 3 isn't even out yet and we only have the concept idea of what CDPR is doing in their expansions thus far.

That's not ultimately germane. The point is CDPR is at least marketing that they will make a return to expansion packs. BioWare isn't even considering the idea whatsoever. The hope and reality is that CDPR will deliver a true expansion pack experience and force other companies, like BioWare, to follow suit. That is what this is about. As it stands, BioWare will never make another expansion pack again.



#493
Fyurian2

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You may not know this, but BioWare has been a console developer since KotOR. This is coming from someone who is a PC gamer. They were an Xbox exclusive until EA bought them and they released DAO. Now they are multi-platform catering to consoles before PC. BioWare hasn't actually cared about PC truly since NWN.
 
Just to show you how console-centric BioWare is, lets see when their games released on Xbox and when they released on PC:
 
KotOR:
-Xbox (July 15, 2003)
-PC (November 19, 2003)
 
JE:
-Xbox (2005)
-PC (February 26, 2007)
 
ME:
-Xbox 360 (November 2007)
-PC (May 28, 2008)


I'm sure that Microsoft in no way, made a deal with Bioware to have exclusivity for xbox and 360 for initial release of certain titles. :rolleyes:
Nor have Microsoft ever done anything like that with other titles that have released on their consoles...

Is the sarcasm coming through thickly enough?
 
Of course, let's not forget that your exact words were

From 2003 to 2007 (KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect), BioWare had only released games for the Xbox and Xbox 360.


So, what you might've meant to say was that Bioware had no involvement with PC versions of those three games... Except they did, in particular with Jade Empire since it's their IP, and the support for them was done through Bioware.



#494
Andraste_Reborn

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In fairness, the game came out in 2007. Try playing KotOR and you'll realize how dated the combat, user interface, art design and dialogue are...

 

But I played The Witcher the year after it came out. It's not like I was comparing it to stuff that came out yesterday.

 

Meanwhile, I played KotOR for the first time ever last year and loved it :) . Sure, the graphics and user interface are dated and the combat is kinda clunky, but it's got a great story. And I got to make Revan a tiny black woman. I could not do that with The Witcher.

 

I can forgive a cRPG significant flaws if I can make a character I enjoy playing. Hell, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is a buggy piece of crap where the combat is just the flailing around that happens in between the parts of the game that are actually interesting, and it's still one of my all-time favourites because of the roleplaying.



#495
Heimdall

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"That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy"

 

Read very closely. This is not an opinion or a reasoned argument. This is blatant ignorance. "Collectible porn car minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word" is more than enough evidence to suggest this person has never actually played any Witcher title for any long period of time. Nothing more than soundbites meant to elicit revulsion and a reaction from those gullible to believe it. I'm more than happy to accept an opinion that critiques and explains through reason why they don't appreciate the game. What I will ignore and refute are stereotypes and the kinds of "opinions" you will find on Kotaku or IGN.

...Do you even know what an opinion is?  Or for that matter, hyperbole?

 

Because you aren't acting like it.



#496
Revan Reborn

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I'm sure that Microsoft in no way, made a deal with Bioware to have exclusivity for xbox and 360 for initial release of certain titles. :rolleyes:
Nor have Microsoft ever done anything like that with other titles that have released on their consoles...

Is the sarcasm coming through thickly enough?
 
Of course, let's not forget that your exact words were


So, what you might've meant to say was that Bioware had no involvement with PC versions of those three games... Except they did, in particular with Jade Empire since it's their IP, and the support for them was done through Bioware.

Again, you are wrong. Let me clarify:

 

First, there was no "deal." You are merely making assumptions. BioWare was an independent developer without the resources or capital to distribute their games abroad. They had never done a console game before and Xbox/Microsoft was willing to publish all of BioWare's games. Thus, this is why BioWare had their games only on Xbox because Sony/Playstation and Nintendo did not see the value in BioWare games at the time. How could they? BioWare had been a PC developer for years.

 

With regard to your point about the PC versions, BioWare actually did not have involvement on any of the titles except KotOR. Jade Empire and Mass Effect were both ported to PC by 3rd party developers (LTI Gray Matter and Demiurge Studios). Thus, my point still stands that BioWare has been console-centric since KotOR and that they are, in fact, a console developer.

 

Compare BioWare to Rockstar North. They make GTA on consoles. They have a sister studio under the Rockstar brand make the PC ports. Rockstar North never gets involved with PC development. The same was largely the case with BioWare until they were bought by EA.



#497
Revan Reborn

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But I played The Witcher the year after it came out. It's not like I was comparing it to stuff that came out yesterday.

 

Meanwhile, I played KotOR for the first time ever last year and loved it :) . Sure, the graphics and user interface are dated and the combat is kinda clunky, but it's got a great story. And I got to make Revan a tiny black woman. I could not do that with The Witcher.

 

I can forgive a cRPG significant flaws if I can make a character I enjoy playing. Hell, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is a buggy piece of crap where the combat is just the flailing around that happens in between the parts of the game that are actually interesting, and it's still one of my all-time favourites because of the roleplaying.

Fair enough. I certainly won't argue that the combat is the greatest. It's essentially a timed click mini-game... However, it does have great characters and a great story.

 

Playing KotOR so late? You missed out on the fun when nobody knew the main character was Revan. Those were the days... What made KotOR so amazing was the plot twist halfway through the game. You just don't get that in video games these days. I can always go back and play KotOR I and KotOR II, but it's not quite as impactful as when they first released.

 

So you just enjoy a character creation essentially. I certainly can understand the appeal. I personally lean towards more established main protagonists as being better just for storytelling purposes. I love KotOR and DAO, but the silent protagonist really took away from the story. KotOR rebounded somewhat when you found out you were THE Dark Lord of the Sith, but DAO was just underwhelming and frustrating. Great story and plot, but not fun to just be a participant while Alistair and everybody else does the talking.

 

Shepard, in my opinion, is one of the best things to happen to a BioWare game, and RPGs in general. He/she proved that a voiced protagonist with a basic established characters works incredibly well.



#498
Mihura

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That's because some people like me have had the displeasure to have played the Witcher - a mechanically suboptimal game made by developers who think a collectible porn card minigame and replacing every other word with the f-word/c-word somehow results in a "mature" game. That game was an abysmal disaster.

So excuse me for not being a CDPR fanboy

 

Don't worry you are forgiven. Enjoy more of the same politically correct content.

 

This is why I hate both sides, first TW was never about sex or cards, that was a dev choice, the books are a lot more mature and so is the universe. Unfortunately there are some things in the games that really turn me off, especially when it comes to female characters and the lack of male fanservice.
If anything TW can be juvenile especially when it comes to their LGBT+ characters, which is sad to see, their sexuality is only represented for the sake of fanservice or making you want to puke. Despite of all of this the story and the main plots are more complex than the majority of games.

Second I love Dragon Age but there is nothing PC about it (characters in that universe can be homophobic, racist, transphobic, sexist, ableist... etc), although they sure have a diverse cast that fells like the real world.
Still the main story sucks and the overall feeling of late is just meh when it comes to their protagonists. A political correct show is something like the teletubbies. There is nothing wrong with trying to be a respectable person that want to include more people but that has no place in this franchising.

Both games can sucks, the only fools here are the people that think one is better than the other.



#499
laudable11

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Bioware's DLC is too expensive. That's my biggest concern. No bang for the buck.

Mass Effect 2 was bang for the buck. They gave us PERMANENT squad mates!
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#500
Revan Reborn

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Bioware's DLC is too expensive. That's my biggest concern. No bang for the buck.

Mass Effect 2 was bang for the buck. They gave us PERMANENT squad mates!

I'm not really a fan of paying for new companions personally, but that's better than the vast major of DLC packs they give us. BioWare already stated we are not getting any expansions or companions DLC packs with DAI, so that leaves only story DLCs and MP cash shop investment.