812 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

This is why I hate both sides, first TW was never about sex or cards, that was a dev choice, the books are a lot more mature and so is the universe. Unfortunately there are some things in the games that really turn me off, especially when it comes to female characters and the lack of male fanservice.
If anything TW can be juvenile especially when it comes to their LGBT+ characters, which is sad to see, their sexuality is only represented for the sake of fanservice or making you want to puke. Despite of all of this the story and the main plots are more complex than the majority of games.

Second I love Dragon Age but there is nothing PC about it (characters in that universe can be homophobic, racist, transphobic, sexist, ableist... etc), although they sure have a diverse cast that fells like the real world.
Still the main story sucks and the overall feeling of late is just meh when it comes to their protagonists. A political correct show is something like the teletubbies. There is nothing wrong with trying to be a respectable person that want to include more people but that has no place in this franchising.

Both games can sucks, the only fools here are the people that think one is better than the other.

While I agree the fanboy flame wars are inappropriate and it's irritating everybody results to that just because they see "CDPR" in the topic name, I feel it's worth pointing out a few corrections on both games.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the "sex cards" weren't just fan service and gratuitous. They were actually based on obscene post cards in the early twentieth century as a way of branching more of a historical context in the world. Was is in poor taste? Perhaps. However, it's not nearly as extreme as many make it out to be.

 

Secondly, The Witcher series is from Geralt's perspective. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Geralt is not a bisexual, nor has he ever been. He loves women, and if you know anything about witchers, they are quite promiscuous. The game merely reflects Geralt's own personal disposition and how he reacts. Many take "offense" because they fail to understand much of what is presented in the games comes directly from the books. No, CDPR is not misogynistic and their games don't reflect that.

 

As far as Dragon Age, the major discrimination and prejudice is generally race (everybody seems to hate elves) and magic (everybody seems to hate mages). Other than that, I wouldn't really consider Thedas nor how people and cultures are depicted to be all that realistic or believable. I'd give The Witcher the edge on that one, even if it's more of a dark fantasy whereas Dragon Age is a bit more traditional and meant to appeal to a larger audience.

 

As far as both games sucking... why are you even here then? I think both franchises are great and there are pros and cons to both. I believe it's also in the benefit of both developers to recognize their strengths and weaknesses and try to build upon them. Going back to the OP, CDPR, as it currently stands, has a better DLC policy than BioWare. Thus, BioWare needs to pay attention.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Contrary to popular belief, the "sex cards" weren't just fan service and gratuitous. They were actually based on obscene post cards in the early twentieth century as a way of branching more of a historical context in the world. Was is in poor taste? Perhaps. However, it's not nearly as extreme as many make it out to be.

There is no perhaps. The answer to was it in poor taste is yes. It was in poor taste when the early twentieth century cards were made, it was in poor taste when CDRP put them in the Witcher. CDRP even admitted it was a mistake on their part to do that. 

[Revan Reborn]

There is no perhaps. The answer to was it in poor taste is yes. It was in poor taste when the early twentieth century cards were made, it was in poor taste when CDRP put them in the Witcher. CDRP even admitted it was a mistake on their part to do that. 

Yes. They did. As you can tell, there are no "sex cards" in TW2 and they won't be in TW3 either. So, why are we talking about something CDPR even admitted was a mistake? It's also worth noting that you have to go out of your way to even obtain most of the sex cards. It's not as if they are being waved in front of you during the entire game... You can actually avoid 80% of them if you really wanted. Regardless, it's a silly point many keep using to bash TW even though it hasn't been relevant for eight years...

 

It's like me complaining about BioWare using a silent protagonist in their games with linear environments when that is clearly not the modern day BioWare experience. Regardless, back on point: BioWare DLC policy is not so great as it currently stands. CDPR is offering what could be the best DLC policy in the entire industry. Given that BioWare is a direct competitor, I hope they are taking notes.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes. They did. As you can tell, there are no "sex cards" in TW2 and they won't be in TW3 either. So, why are we talking about something CDPR even admitted was a mistake? It's also worth noting that you have to go out of your way to even obtain most of the sex cards. It's not as if they are being waved in front of you during the entire game... You can actually avoid 80% of them if you really wanted. Regardless, it's a silly point many keep using to bash TW even though it hasn't been relevant for eight years...

 

It's like me complaining about BioWare using a silent protagonist in their games with linear environments when that is clearly not the modern day BioWare experience. Regardless, back on point: BioWare DLC policy is not so great as it currently stands. CDPR is offering what could be the best DLC policy in the entire industry. Given that BioWare is a direct competitor, I hope they are taking notes.

I was just disagreeing with your answer of perhaps it was in poor taste by saying even the creators of it admit it was in poor taste.

 

They really aren't going to be direct competitors soon. The Witcher 3 is the last game for a while at least where CDRP and Bioware are making the same genre of RPG. The only other project on CDRP's list at the moment is Cyberpunk 2077, which while a science fiction RPG is of the Cyberpunk genre, something Bioware isn't doing as far as we know. 

[Revan Reborn]

I was just disagreeing with your answer of perhaps it was in poor taste by saying even the creators of it admit it was in poor taste.

 

They really aren't going to be direct competitors soon. The Witcher 3 is the last game for a while at least where CDRP and Bioware are making the same genre of RPG. The only other project on CDRP's list at the moment is Cyberpunk 2077, which while a science fiction RPG is of the Cyberpunk genre, something Bioware isn't doing as far as we know. 

I'd disagree on that point. CDPR and BioWare essentially make the same kind of games. Story-driven, choice-driven, character focused experiences. There will be future Witcher titles, just not with Geralt as the focus. This is the end of his trilogy. Cyberpunk 2077 is next, and while BioWare has never done Cyberpunk, Mass Effect has quite a few parallels to Cyberpunk. The comparison won't end anytime soon as long as they continue to make story-driven RPGs.

[Heimdall]

I'd disagree on that point. CDPR and BioWare essentially make the same kind of games. Story-driven, choice-driven, character focused experiences. There will be future Witcher titles, just not with Geralt as the focus. This is the end of his trilogy. Cyberpunk 2077 is next, and while BioWare has never done Cyberpunk, Mass Effect has quite a few parallels to Cyberpunk. The comparison won't end anytime soon as long as they continue to make story-driven RPGs.

When did CDPR say there would be more Witcher titles?  (Genuinely Curious) I seems to remember them saying the opposite, that they weren't going to make any more Witcher games.

 

Cyberpunk and Space Opera are two radically different genres, even if they both fall under the auspices of SciFi.

[KaiserShep]

Eh, the only thing Mass Effect has about it that's remotely similar to anything cyberpunk is the use of cybernetics and such, but the whole subculture part is totally nonexistent. It is, first and foremost, a space opera.

[o Ventus]

I think he meant Cyberpunk the series. As in, Cyberpunk 2020 or Cyberpunk 2077. CDPR is making a video game adaptation of Cyberpunk 2077, which is supposed to be heavily character driven and is a choice-based RPG/shooter a la Deus Ex.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think he meant Cyberpunk the series. As in, Cyberpunk 2020 or Cyberpunk 2077. CDPR is making a video game adaptation of Cyberpunk 2077, which is supposed to be heavily character driven and is a choice-based RPG/shooter a la Deus Ex.

If you mean me, no I meant the genre. Cyberpunk, Deus Ex, Ghost in the Shell, etc. 

[Heimdall]

I think he meant Cyberpunk the series. As in, Cyberpunk 2020 or Cyberpunk 2077.

While I'm not overly familiar with it, from research I did when I first saw the trailer I can't see any parallel's.

[o Ventus]

If you mean me, no I meant the genre. Cyberpunk, Deus Ex, Ghost in the Shell, etc. 

 

No, the OP. He said:

 

I'd disagree on that point. CDPR and BioWare essentially make the same kind of games. Story-driven, choice-driven, character focused experiences. There will be future Witcher titles, just not with Geralt as the focus. This is the end of his trilogy. Cyberpunk 2077 is next, and while BioWare has never done Cyberpunk, Mass Effect has quite a few parallels to Cyberpunk. The comparison won't end anytime soon as long as they continue to make story-driven RPGs.

 

Which leads me to believe he meant the games, not the genre.

[wolfsite]

When did CDPR say there would be more Witcher titles?  (Genuinely Curious) I seems to remember them saying the opposite, that they weren't going to make any more Witcher games.

 

Cyberpunk and Space Opera are two radically different genres, even if they both fall under the auspices of SciFi.

 

This article

 

http://www.gamespot....e/1100-6403436/

 

They clearly state it is the last Witcher game.  Of course I'm sure someone will say there is enough wiggle room in the article to say there will be more without Geralt but they would need approval from the IP holder first.

[o Ventus]

While I'm not overly familiar with it, from research I did when I first saw the trailer I can't see any parallel's.

As far as the plot goes, I can't say (I haven't heard a single thing about the plot to CP2077), but I know that the mechanics are supposed to be somewhat familiar (like I said, it's a RPG/shooter hybrid) though it falls more in line with Deus Ex than ME. There are no companion characters, IIRC, and no paragon/renegade like mechanic, etc.

[wolfsite]

Ya there is next to no information on Cyberpunk 2077 so it would be best to wait for an official reveal as the game has gone under the radar and anything could change between the original announcement trailer and the first game reveal.  I will say I am looking forward to the game right now as it feels they will have more creative freedom in the Cyberpunk universe.

[Revan Reborn]

No, the OP. He said:

 

 

Which leads me to believe he meant the games, not the genre.

Indeed. I was referring more to the similarities in terms of how the games will function. Mass Effect doesn't have the same near-futuristic, dystopian vibe that you'd get from classic Cyberpunk, like Bladerunner.

 

CDPR was suggesting Cyberpunk 2077 probably won't be released until 2017 at the earliest. But, allegedly we will be able to create our own character, have the kinds of story and choice we expect in the Witcher games, and there was even suggestion that there might be multiplayer. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

 

This article

 

http://www.gamespot....e/1100-6403436/

 

They clearly state it is the last Witcher game.  Of course I'm sure someone will say there is enough wiggle room in the article to say there will be more without Geralt but they would need approval from the IP holder first.

This is the last Witcher game with Geralt as the lead. CDPR has already stated it is very likely they will return to the actual universe. I wouldn't be surprised if we played future games as Ciri, considering how important to the novels she is.

 

http://www.engadget....cher-after-all/

[Mihura]

While I agree the fanboy flame wars are inappropriate and it's irritating everybody results to that just because they see "CDPR" in the topic name, I feel it's worth pointing out a few corrections on both games.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the "sex cards" weren't just fan service and gratuitous. They were actually based on obscene post cards in the early twentieth century as a way of branching more of a historical context in the world. Was is in poor taste? Perhaps. However, it's not nearly as extreme as many make it out to be.

 

Secondly, The Witcher series is from Geralt's perspective. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Geralt is not a bisexual, nor has he ever been. He loves women, and if you know anything about witchers, they are quite promiscuous. The game merely reflects Geralt's own personal disposition and how he reacts. Many take "offense" because they fail to understand much of what is presented in the games comes directly from the books. No, CDPR is not misogynistic and their games don't reflect that.

 

As far as Dragon Age, the major discrimination and prejudice is generally race (everybody seems to hate elves) and magic (everybody seems to hate mages). Other than that, I wouldn't really consider Thedas nor how people and cultures are depicted to be all that realistic or believable. I'd give The Witcher the edge on that one, even if it's more of a dark fantasy whereas Dragon Age is a bit more traditional and meant to appeal to a larger audience.

 

As far as both games sucking... why are you even here then? I think both franchises are great and there are pros and cons to both. I believe it's also in the benefit of both developers to recognize their strengths and weaknesses and try to build upon them. Going back to the OP, CDPR, as it currently stands, has a better DLC policy than BioWare. Thus, BioWare needs to pay attention.

 

How is giving the cards a justification not a bias on favoritism? they were awful, Gearlt is not a fuckboy, that is Dandelion department. Witcher are promiscuous, hummm...... the word on the street is that they have living weapons without emotions, can you source that information for me? I am really curious about specific lore that supports their sexual appetites.

"No, CDPR is not misogynistic and their games don't reflect that." Oh this is hilarious and defensive where did I said that? can I do a hyperbole of your post too? Also where did I said Geralt was bi? I have some of the books and watched the TV series so... I kinda know who he is. I was talking about side characters.

Both companies make mistakes, I am here because I still like them enough to care. Of course I am not on the witcher forum because it has lost the capacity for intelligent discussions, people wanting a Yen/Ciri/Triss thing is a really big sigh to run way.

 

I just hope CDPR does not lose themselves like Ubisoft a long the way, the season pass is a big step for that and I disagree, the best company for DLC is Paradox or Obsidian actually, Bioware should take notes on that, CDPR is too mainstream at this moment.

[Morroian]

Mods why has this thread not been locked? 

[ebevan91]

Indeed. I was referring more to the similarities in terms of how the games will function. Mass Effect doesn't have the same near-futuristic, dystopian vibe that you'd get from classic Cyberpunk, like Bladerunner.

 

CDPR was suggesting Cyberpunk 2077 probably won't be released until 2017 at the earliest. But, allegedly we will be able to create our own character, have the kinds of story and choice we expect in the Witcher games, and there was even suggestion that there might be multiplayer. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

 

This is the last Witcher game with Geralt as the lead. CDPR has already stated it is very likely they will return to the actual universe. I wouldn't be surprised if we played future games as Ciri, considering how important to the novels she is.

 

http://www.engadget....cher-after-all/

 

First I want a Witcher 1 remake using the TW3 engine. Then they can make future Witcher games with Ciri as the lead.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, the OP. He said:

 

 

Which leads me to believe he meant the games, not the genre.

Ah, my apologies then. 

[Revan Reborn]

First I want a Witcher 1 remake using the TW3 engine. Then they can make future Witcher games with Ciri as the lead.

That would be nice, but doubtful. CDPR doesn't currently have a history of remaking games. Admittedly, they are still a relatively new developer and don't have the largest catalog of games to actually remaster. Once TW3 is done, they'll likely be heading 100% into Cyberpunk 2077.

[Heimdall]

This is the last Witcher game with Geralt as the lead. CDPR has already stated it is very likely they will return to the actual universe. I wouldn't be surprised if we played future games as Ciri, considering how important to the novels she is.
 
http://www.engadget....cher-after-all/

I'm sorta hoping to see character creation after we're done with Geralt, actually. If they're planning to do it in Cyberpunk, it seems they'd be open to the idea.

[Bizantura]

There is no perhaps. The answer to was it in poor taste is yes. It was in poor taste when the early twentieth century cards were made, it was in poor taste when CDRP put them in the Witcher. CDRP even admitted it was a mistake on their part to do that. 

 

 

Personally I hope CDRP will keep there authenticity but I doubt it.  The American sales figures  are important to them and a game like The Witcher which is typical Polish culture has its consequences and I think CDRP has learned their lesson.  Geralt is a very confrontational figure, the whole witcher world is more confrontational by not adhering to todays standard social norm.  That is for some the appeal and strengh of the game, for others the reason to avoid it.

 

Its a double edge sword, the more personality a protagonist expresses the more you bump into "the social norm" problem.  I read often on this forum that the "protagonist" is to bland and need more personality but oh dear if that "protagonist" bumps against their personal social norms!!

 

Result, games are becoming bander by the minute and devs try to adhere to some worldly social norm that actually doesn't exist.

[Aquarius121]

Well, I've lurked long enough. Reading through this entire thread was torturous. In regards to the original premise of this topic:

 

Why would any fan of the Dragon Age universe actively discourage more reasonably priced, meatier content? Whether or not that content is labeled "DLC" or "expansion" should be irrelevant. (*should* be, although I will say there is a pretty clear difference IMO - a new throne for example is not called an expansion - and I feel like those who keep asking for more evidence of a distinction are simply feigning bewilderment in order to derail the OP and make them seem incompetent).

 

Personally I liked Awakening. It gave more story, more chances to role play my character, more time in the setting I love, which is why I play these games. Others had a less enjoyable experience, I can totally understand that...but if it was done right, whatever your opinion of "right" is, and if there weren't as many bugs, wouldn't it be a great thing?? Better than a smaller, less engrossing quest or map, yeah? I realize it's hypothetical, but aren't all future projects hypothetical before becoming reality?

 

So why is it a bad thing to urge Bioware to develop and fairly price something like that? A new, meaty experience with ties to the base game, something that lasts longer than the modern, average DLC/expansion/whatever the hell you want to call it. Sounds good to me...obviously I would hope it to be more appealing to those who were unimpressed with Awakening. Wouldn't that be great? What fan of DA wouldn't be excited if it were good?

 

That's what the OP is suggesting, TW and CDPR are just the impetus for the suggestion, one that has been made before and something I definitely wouldn't be against...

 

Also: the insults on this thread are glorious. I liked a few posts based purely on the creativity of their comebacks. I'm gonna go back into hiding before any are directed at me xD

[9TailsFox]

Personally I hope CDRP will keep there authenticity but I doubt it.  The American sales figures  are important to them and a game like The Witcher which is typical Polish culture has its consequences and I think CDRP has learned their lesson.  Geralt is a very confrontational figure, the whole witcher world is more confrontational by not adhering to todays standard social norm.  That is for some the appeal and strengh of the game, for others the reason to avoid it.

 

Its a double edge sword, the more personality a protagonist expresses the more you bump into "the social norm" problem.  I read often on this forum that the "protagonist" is to bland and need more personality but oh dear if that "protagonist" bumps against their personal social norms!!

 

Result, games are becoming bander by the minute and devs try to adhere to some worldly social norm that actually doesn't exist.

2 girls one cup Witcher edition.

Spoiler

 

I think witcher 3 will be fine. but what's funny trailer narrator. world filed with religious fanatics, war crimes and EVEN racism, like racism is worse than war crimes.

Spoiler

[SnakeCode]

Personally I hope CDRP will keep there authenticity but I doubt it.  The American sales figures  are important to them and a game like The Witcher which is typical Polish culture has its consequences and I think CDRP has learned their lesson.  Geralt is a very confrontational figure, the whole witcher world is more confrontational by not adhering to todays standard social norm.  That is for some the appeal and strengh of the game, for others the reason to avoid it.

 

Its a double edge sword, the more personality a protagonist expresses the more you bump into "the social norm" problem.  I read often on this forum that the "protagonist" is to bland and need more personality but oh dear if that "protagonist" bumps against their personal social norms!!

 

Result, games are becoming bander by the minute and devs try to adhere to some worldly social norm that actually doesn't exist.

 

I don't think it's about trying to adhere to social norms per se (though that's definitely a part of it.) It's more that devs these days are deathly afraid of offending people, especially in the last couple of years in North America since the perpetually offended social justice brigade has been decrying what seems like every game under the sun for the most minor of details.

 

CDPR have been staunch in the belief that videogames don't need to be handled with kiddie gloves, sex, bigotry and dark themes can be a part of the world, and it isn't a crime to show these things to gamers. Not making the world an egalitarian one is also a sore spot for many, we don't see many if any female commanders (a distinct difference to DA where it seems 8 of every 10 people in a position of power are women.) They also have a very European attitude towards sex, it isn't a big deal or any worse than violence here. They've also garnered a lot of hate because they've been pretty unapologetic for not representing every race/gender/sex/sexual identy under the sun, which is a ridiculous demand in the first place, as it isn't feasible for most games to do so. Especially games working from existing IPs.

 

Another game that isn't even out yet that gets this treatment is Kingdom Come: Deliverance, because it's a historical rpg set in Medieval Bohemia. Tumblrinas took issue with it because there's a distinct lack of "diversity" in the characters. Game director Daniel Vávra was very uapologetic and said they had always intended to be historically accurate, and they weren't going to jeopardise their artistic integrity to prevent some oversensitive types being offended. The game (and Vávra himself) have been under attack ever since.

 

I think it's important to note that these are both European devs/made games, and for the most part Europe isn't yet under the thrall of the social justice crusade that has besieges the North American games industry. The  "critiques" of the likes of Sarkeesian and Mackintosh aren't going to affect the way they make games, not yet anyway.