812 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

You may want to rerail this train back onto its tracks before a Mod steps in to prevent the oncoming calamity.

 

The thread should have been locked long ago anyway, mods have been asleep it seems.

[Revan Reborn]

The thread should have been locked long ago anyway, mods have been asleep it seems.

If you aren't going to contribute to the call of the question, I'd ask that you no longer post as you are merely a part of the problem.

 

Again, the discussion as it stands now is wanting to hear BioWare's distinction of "expansion" and "DLC" and what it means to them. Feel free to contribute or please move elsewhere. Thank you.

[uzivatel]

While that might be appropriate for some of their story DLC, such as Citadel, BioWare has already closed that door prematurely. As someone linked earlier in the thread, Mark Darrah, Executive Producer for the Dragon Age franchise, explicitly stated they weren't considering expansions for DAI.
 
Thus, the fact that BioWare has made a distinction on "expansions" for their DLC content would suggest they believe expansions are something more than what they offer. What that exactly means? That's anybody's guess as only BioWare knows. That being said, I'd like for BioWare to reconsider their position on expansions as they perceive them.

And yet, the Jaws of Hakkon are said to be about 10 hours by reviewers, which is the same figure as the length of one of the Witcher 3 "massive expansion" as claimed by CDP.
BioWare should certainly reconsider, how they call stuff in public. DLC = uncool, expansion = cool.

[Revan Reborn]

And yet, the Jaws of Hakkon are said to be about 10 hours by reviewers, which is the same figure as the length of one of the Witcher 3 "massive expansion" as claimed by CDP.
BioWare should certainly reconsider, how they call stuff in public. DLC = uncool, expansion = cool.

One major distinction between Jaws of Hakkon and the 10 hour expansion CDPR is releasing is Jaws of Hakkon is 10 hours of content in a brand new area. The first CDPR is 10 hours of content in the already existing environment. It won't be until the second expansion that we see an all new environment that provides allegedly 20 hours of content. Essentially, that would suggest that CDPR's expansion actually provides more content because you aren't actually visiting any new environments.

 

I think there is an appropriate place and time for each term, but BioWare seems unwilling to use the term "expansion," whether justified or not. I'm under the impression they still believe that there is a major distinction, when they themselves have made expansions in the past. I think it's more of an issue with EA not being receptive to the idea of such a large commitment and not providing BioWare with what is necessary to make an expansion, in their eyes, a reality. My only hope is that CDPR delivers on exactly what they are promoting and perhaps that would provide more evidence to BioWare and EA that expansions are still viable in this market.

[o Ventus]

One major distinction between Jaws of Hakkon and the 10 hour expansion CDPR is releasing is Jaws of Hakkon is 10 hours of content in a brand new area. The first CDPR is 10 hours of content in the already existing environment. It won't be until the second expansion that we see an all new environment that provides allegedly 20 hours of content. Essentially, that would suggest that CDPR's expansion actually provides more content because you aren't actually visiting any new environments.

 

This is the most inane and backwards logic I've ever heard.

 

CDPR's expansion isn't introducing new areas, so it's giving you more content? What in God's name thought process led you to that conclusion?

[Revan Reborn]

This is the most inane and backwards logic I've ever heard.

 

CDPR's expansion isn't introducing new areas, so it's giving you more content? What in God's name thought process led you to that conclusion?

Lets think about this? Shall we? When considering any experience with content, the amount of time it takes to get from one point to another is factored in. A large portion of Jaws of Hakkon on dedicated to this new area. Now, some have complained that JoH actually lacks depth, particularly in the case of story, because most of the "content" is just about exploring this new area and clicking on collectibles. This all factors in to the alleged "10 hours of content" that JoH provides.

 

Now, lets consider the first expansion for TW3. There is no new area being introduced to the game. It's purely a new story and that is the driving content. Thus, if the actual story, itself is actually 10 hours, versus JoH, which is some story plus new area equals 10 hours, you should see my point. To put it more succintly as someone said earlier, JoH is maybe 7 hours of story with 3 hours of exploring a new territory. The first TW3 expansion is 10 hours of just story. As far as the content of a story DLC is concerned, the first expansion for TW3 offers more. Make sense?

[Heimdall]

Lets think about this? Shall we? When considering any experience with content, the amount of time it takes to get from one point to another is factored in. A large portion of Jaws of Hakkon on dedicated to this new area. Now, some have complained that JoH actually lacks depth, particularly in the case of story, because most of the "content" is just about exploring this new area and clicking on collectibles. This all factors in to the alleged "10 hours of content" that JoH provides.
 
Now, lets consider the first expansion for TW3. There is no new area being introduced to the game. It's purely a new story and that is the driving content. Thus, if the actual story, itself is actually 10 hours, versus JoH, which is some story plus new area equals 10 hours, you should see my point. To put it more succintly as someone said earlier, JoH is maybe 7 hours of story with 3 hours of exploring a new territory. The first TW3 expansion is 10 hours of just story. As far as the content of a story DLC is concerned, the first expansion for TW3 offers more. Make sense?

No, content is content. Story or exploration, it's still content.

Especially since you earlier defined a new area as something that frequently accompanied the brand "Expansion"

[Zana]

I don't think many people will deny that smaller DLCs net the company more money per man hour put into it.  That is, more profit.  So from business standpoint it makes perfect sense to stick to that strategy.  Unlike CDPR, Bioware already has a large fan base that will be buying their products even if the quality goes down or price per unit content goes up.  As such, they can try things like reach to other types of players and be less...user friendly than their competitors.  Whether CDPR will follow suit after establishing themselves to similar extend remains to be seen.  But based on previous experiences (IMO), the break point seems to be around the time when the studio goes from a small semi-indie 'by gamers for gamers' to being bought out by a corporate publisher and turning into 'by corporations for money'.

[Giantdeathrobot]

One major distinction between Jaws of Hakkon and the 10 hour expansion CDPR is releasing is Jaws of Hakkon is 10 hours of content in a brand new area. The first CDPR is 10 hours of content in the already existing environment. It won't be until the second expansion that we see an all new environment that provides allegedly 20 hours of content. Essentially, that would suggest that CDPR's expansion actually provides more content because you aren't actually visiting any new environments.

 

 

...what?

 

I'm sorry, this makes no sense whatsoever. New areas are content, in fact they are probably around the most time-consuming and valuable content to create, especially in open world games. No, story and gameplay is not the only viable content that you can put in an add-on, if I pay 10, 20, 30$ for additional content you bet I want it to take place in a new location, and not just recycle existing locales because the devs couldn't be arsed to create those locations. And according to you, this is a good thing. The mental gymnastics have reached Olympic levels of absurdity.

 

Also, 10 hours in already existing environements and they want to call it an ''expansion''? That's stingy even by industry standards. Even the sometimes overpriced DLCs offered by big companies pretty much always feature new areas. The more I hear about this, the more I'm comforted into thinking this is a glorified season pass and the more I'm thinking I'll buy the base game and be content with it. 

 

And I sure as hell don't want Bioware to emulate this. No new areas in a 10 dollar add-on? Pfff.

[LinksOcarina]

...what?

 

I'm sorry, this makes no sense whatsoever. New areas are content, in fact they are probably around the most time-consuming and valuable content to create, especially in open world games. No, story and gameplay is not the only viable content that you can put in an add-on, if I pay 10, 20, 30$ for additional content you bet I want it to take place in a new location, and not just recycle existing locales because the devs couldn't be arsed to create those locations. And according to you, this is a good thing. The mental gymnastics have reached Olympic levels of absurdity.

 

Also, 10 hours in already existing environements and they want to call it an ''expansion''? That's stingy even by industry standards. Even the sometimes overpriced DLCs offered by big companies pretty much always feature new areas. The more I hear about this, the more I'm comforted into thinking this is a glorified season pass and the more I'm thinking I'll buy the base game and be content with it. 

 

And I sure as hell don't want Bioware to emulate this. No new areas in a 10 dollar add-on? Pfff.

 

If that is the case...for the fun of it can I call CDPR on cutting content and selling it as an expansion?

[Giantdeathrobot]

If that is the case...for the fun of it can I call CDPR on cutting content and selling it as an expansion?

 

You can.

 

You can also say that DA2 is the best RPG ever, since obviously the devs didn't waste time creating new areas, and poured all this time into creating Actual Content tm. Because that's how game development works, right?

[Hiemoth]

If that is the case...for the fun of it can I call CDPR on cutting content and selling it as an expansion?

 

This revelation actually truly baffles me, especially if it is suddenly an item for the defense. In ME3, the base game contained pieces for the DLC From the Ashes as they had to incorporate the character in to existing areas because the structure was such that it would be nigh impossible to do it afterwards. It was understandable decision for, as it gave them the baseline to work the more detailed DLC later, but it was also a Day 1 DLC and used as one of the prime examples of how Bioware was allegedly ripping of customers, no matter how many times it was explained and despite the fact that the game became really unstable with any hacks related to the matter.

 

So with that in mind, that not only is TW3 going to use the same areas, which would most likely require them to code the base already in to the game, but it is not even as a Day One DLC is really mindblowing considering their previous stance. As is the fact that their practice is still apparently morally somehow superior to Bioware's.

 

Also, I am also really struggling to understand the OPs claim that this somehow provides more content as what exactly is the difference between 10 hours on a new map and 10 hours on an old map?

[KBomb]

I'm fairly certain before even DAI was released that BioWare stated they weren't going to have any expansions such as Awakening. They are going more of the Mass Effect route with shorter experiences, but more frequent DLC as a result. Personally, I hate DLC/add-on content that barely adds to the experience and costs $14.99 each. I'm looking at virtually all of the Mass Effect DLC, of which only a few were noteworthy (Shadow Broker and Citadel in particular).

 

I understand it's probably because of EA and restricted funds that BioWare is going the short and more frequent DLC route. However, in my opinion, it's a waste of the customer's money and a waste of BioWare's efforts and time. Awakening was absolutely amazing. Yes, expansions take more time and they are more costly for development, but it is worth it. You cannot tell me BioWare did not make a vast amount of money off of Awakening. It was universally loved by everyone.

 

So why not give gamers what we really want? CDPR is probably the best developer in the industry because of how gamer-friendly they are today. Not only are we receiving 16 free DLC/add-ons over the course of the game's life, but CDPR is making two expansions at the normal price of most season passes, and we are getting much more bang for our buck.

 

Even BGS admitted that small DLC updates compared to expansions ultimately didn't work. Bloodmoon, Tribunal, Shivering Isles, and Dragonborn were exceptional, while all of the many DLC/add-ons in Fallout 3 are forgettable and I can't even name one. As a longtime BioWare fan since the original KotOR, I encourage you to truly give the fans what they want to remain relevant. TW3 is easily looking like it could be game of the year, and had it been finished in 2014, I think it probably could have beaten DAI as it currently stands.

 

You make amazing games BioWare, and I truly believe Mass Effect is one of the greatest trilogy of games ever made, but you've got to step it up. I honestly have zero interest in the DAI DLC you released and I might pick it up at some point if it goes on sale. That's not the kind of response you should be getting from some of your fans. We should WANT to buy your DLC. Not be indifferent to it.

I see where you're coming from, OP. I agree.

If it's the quality I believe it will be, $25 for two expansions and the free add-ons is a bargain. I am really excited to dive into it all, especially after the latest gameplay trailer. I love The Witcher and CDPR and it will be interesting to see what they can come up with. 

 

I love Bioware a lot--they've been a huge part of my gaming life. I just feel the quality has slipped and the JoH was a bit expensive, imo. I am keeping up a bit of hope that the next dlc will have a little more bulk. Anyway, it's good for companies to see what other companies are doing and seeing what works and what doesn't.

[o Ventus]

Make sense?

No, because that's idiotic and backwards.

[CronoDragoon]

That sounds more like EA speaking for BioWare than anything else. It also sounds like typical PR to make excuses for not giving gamers what they want. Regardless of how factually accurate Mr. Darrah's words are, does anybody actually remember the DLC in DA2?

 

If they gave gamers what they wanted, the game would be free. I don't have much to add on the "gamers want more content for less money, publishers want more money for less content" discussion, as it seems fairly self-evident to me. What I will say is that holding TW3 up when we haven't even seen the base game let alone the expansions seems dangerous.

 

Regardless, Dragon Age 2's DLC is held in high regard and remembered, as is the majority of Mass Effect 3's. Many people in fact believe that the DLC is essential to any ME3 playthrough, as LotSB and to a lesser extent Overlord are for ME2.

 

(...also, I didn't really like Awakening)

[Giantdeathrobot]

It's also weird to see people on CDPR's official forums wholly shallow the PR. Being enthusiastic about new content for a series you like is perfectly normal, but I'd have expected more critcisms if they really do stuff like putting no new areas in their first 10$ DLC. Also strange to call it one expansion when it's really two add-ons, spaced by about 5 months from each other. Last I checked, Throne of Bhaal (or any other RPG xpac) wasn't released in two parts.

 

I don't know, I feel like too many people are parroting CDPR's official press releases, which is unhealthy for any fandom. Even down to the number of hours of the add-ons which are taken completely for granted.

[slimgrin]

A lot of people on this site forget that CDPR has expressed admiration for Bioware's games, even influence. There's no war between the two companies. But they will take jabs, and I think them calling their expansions a season pass is interesting. It's really two expansion packs, not a season pass, as the season pass - 16 small dlcs - is free. They're showing up their competitors. Nothing out of the ordinary there. As to the OP, would have been best to leave CDPR out of it and a more productive conversation could ensue. Because believe you me, I was begging for an ME2 expansion, not Thane's shades and that paper mache thing that replaced the Mako. Still, EA hasn't been all that bad. They have given away some free stuff along the way.

[KaiserShep]

If they gave gamers what they wanted, the game would be free. I don't have much to add on the "gamers want more content for less money, publishers want more money for less content" discussion, as it seems fairly self-evident to me. What I will say is that holding TW3 up when we haven't even seen the base game let alone the expansions seems dangerous.

 

Regardless, Dragon Age 2's DLC is held in high regard and remembered, as is the majority of Mass Effect 3's. Many people in fact believe that the DLC is essential to any ME3 playthrough, as LotSB and to a lesser extent Overlord are for ME2.

 

Heh, DA2, ME2 and 3 and to a small extent ME1 (BDTS) feel totally naked without the DLC's now.

 

But anyway, I do think that it's kind of weird how much praise TW3 seems to be getting here and there and bash BioWare in the same thought. You'd think that the game was out already and that all these people have been playing it or something. But what's worse is that I somehow get this impression that we're not supposed to like both.

[CronoDragoon]

I'd also bet against TW3 being 2015 GOTY, not because I don't think it's going to be great (I'm pretty sure it will be at least very very good after the bugs are worked out) but because it's going against the PR maelstrom that is Kojima vs. Konami leading up to the release of Metal Gear Solid V. And when considering how much critics and hardcore fan sites adore Metal Gear Solid, it's going to be rough for any other game.

 

Then, if it can somehow survive that, you've got Bloodborne.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd also bet against TW3 being 2015 GOTY, not because I don't think it's going to be great (I'm pretty sure it will be at least very very good after the bugs are worked out) but because it's going against the PR maelstrom that is Kojima vs. Konami leading up to the release of Metal Gear Solid V. And when considering how much critics and hardcore fan sites adore Metal Gear Solid, it's going to be rough for any other game.

 

Then, if it can somehow survive that, you've got Bloodborne.

Don't forget Star Wars: Battlefront. At the E3 it was first announced, it was one of the most popular things at that E3. And all it was was a less than 30 second trailer consisting of a guy walking in snow, a laser shot, a Snowspeeder crashing, and an AT-AT foot coming down.

 

Since it is planned to come out this year due to Episode 7, it will be hugely received by fans and critics judging from how well Battlefront and Battlefront II were, each winning GOTY from several sites. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

A lot of people on this site forget that CDPR has expressed admiration for Bioware's games, even influence. There's no war between the two companies. But they will take jabs, and I think them calling their expansions a season pass is interesting. It's really two expansion packs, not a season pass, as the season pass - 16 small dlcs - is free. They're showing up their competitors. Nothing out of the ordinary there. As to the OP, would have been best to leave CDPR out of it and a more productive conversation could ensue. Because believe you me, I was begging for an ME2 expansion, not Thane's shades and that paper mache thing that replaced the Mako. Still, EA hasn't been all that bad. They have given away some free stuff along the way.

 

Oh, my criticisms have nothing to do with any Bioware vs CDPR war, which I agree can get very silly considering their games are so similar (as much as hardcore fans on both sides are willing to forget). I will buy TW3 and most probably enjoy it a lot.

 

With that being said, I also disagree that the ''expansion pass'' is the deal of a lifetime like CDPR and some fans seem to imply. It's a standard 10$ DLC bundled with a big 20$ one (the last of which is hardly unheard of, you got Dragonborn but also the Zombie add-on for Red Dead Redemption). It's good value, but people seem to think attaching the nam ''expansion'' to it makes their season pass an instant buy forever. I'm somewhat skeptical.

[Revan Reborn]

No, content is content. Story or exploration, it's still content.

Especially since you earlier defined a new area as something that frequently accompanied the brand "Expansion"

If you consider exploring an environment with only collectibles and a few rifts as "content," sure.

 

Just because you have a new environment doesn't necessarily mean it's being used. BGS recreated Solstheim from Bloodmoon with dozens of caves and POIs, plenty of quests, and lots of activitives outside the main quest. Jaws of Hakkon isn't remotely close to that. It's a new area that you explore for a bit until the new feel wears off, and then you finish the story and it's over.

 

I don't think many people will deny that smaller DLCs net the company more money per man hour put into it.  That is, more profit.  So from business standpoint it makes perfect sense to stick to that strategy.  Unlike CDPR, Bioware already has a large fan base that will be buying their products even if the quality goes down or price per unit content goes up.  As such, they can try things like reach to other types of players and be less...user friendly than their competitors.  Whether CDPR will follow suit after establishing themselves to similar extend remains to be seen.  But based on previous experiences (IMO), the break point seems to be around the time when the studio goes from a small semi-indie 'by gamers for gamers' to being bought out by a corporate publisher and turning into 'by corporations for money'.

I think you are gravely undervaluing how popular CDPR is. Their largest base is probably still PC gamers, since TW1 and TW2 initially was only PC. However, TW3 is a highly anticipated game. It's won plenty of awards from E3 and various other conventions and this will be the first time it's available on all platforms. I think it will easily compete with MGS V, BAK, SWBF, Halo 5, and any other major title coming out this year if it lives up to its promises. CDPR definitely isn't "indie" by any stretch of the word. They have money and A LOT of it. They also don't have to worry about being purchased by a large publisher because CDPR's parent company runs GOG among other things. Meaning, CDPR will continue to have the flexibility to do what they want and how they want it.

 

...what?

 

I'm sorry, this makes no sense whatsoever. New areas are content, in fact they are probably around the most time-consuming and valuable content to create, especially in open world games. No, story and gameplay is not the only viable content that you can put in an add-on, if I pay 10, 20, 30$ for additional content you bet I want it to take place in a new location, and not just recycle existing locales because the devs couldn't be arsed to create those locations. And according to you, this is a good thing. The mental gymnastics have reached Olympic levels of absurdity.

 

Also, 10 hours in already existing environements and they want to call it an ''expansion''? That's stingy even by industry standards. Even the sometimes overpriced DLCs offered by big companies pretty much always feature new areas. The more I hear about this, the more I'm comforted into thinking this is a glorified season pass and the more I'm thinking I'll buy the base game and be content with it. 

 

And I sure as hell don't want Bioware to emulate this. No new areas in a 10 dollar add-on? Pfff.

It does make sense when you actually look at the "content" being provided. I have seen countless criticisms about how empty Jaws of Hakkon is and the new "area" is nothing more than a lifeless zone with some rifts and collectibles to waste time. Again, this goes back to my point earlier about quality versus quantity. I'd rather have 10 hours of quality story in a zone I've already explored rather than maybe 7 hours of story and then the rest being what is arguably one of the most boring aspects of DAI, the execution of the semi open world.

 

If they gave gamers what they wanted, the game would be free. I don't have much to add on the "gamers want more content for less money, publishers want more money for less content" discussion, as it seems fairly self-evident to me. What I will say is that holding TW3 up when we haven't even seen the base game let alone the expansions seems dangerous.

 

Regardless, Dragon Age 2's DLC is held in high regard and remembered, as is the majority of Mass Effect 3's. Many people in fact believe that the DLC is essential to any ME3 playthrough, as LotSB and to a lesser extent Overlord are for ME2.

 

(...also, I didn't really like Awakening)

That's a big leap in logic. Nothing is "free" and people have families to take care of. I'm certain developers would take more time to develop games and they'd probably have less microtransactions and useless DLC packs, but I don't believe things would be all that different. This isn't a discussion about putting CDPR on a pedestal, but rather BioWare being cognizant of the competition and continuing to strive to do better.

 

Is it really? Many never even finished DAII because it was such a "terrible" game supposedly. I enjoyed it quite a bit, but it has a tarnished reputation. I doubt that many even invested in the DLC for it, whether it was good or not. Legacy was decent, but the Felicia Day stuff was fan service.

 

I don't believe anyone would say ME DLC is "essential." On the contrary, I believe many are frustrated with how BioWare handles DLC for ME. For example, why would not have the Leviathan DLC in the game before release? It was kind of a big deal for the entire last ten minutes of the game, of which many folks found horrible. Not to mention, nobody has ever been a fan of how companions were DLC and cut from the game (Zaeed and Javik) as day one purchases. Thankfully, it looks like BioWare stopped that nonsense. Outside of Citadel and Lair of the Shadow Broker, I haven't really been a big fan of how BioWare has handled DLC in Mass Effect. It's even more irritating because if you don't have all the DLC, large portions of ME3 dialogue is cut from the experience.

 

Arrival is never mentioned and Shepard is just under house arrest because "he pulled some crap" according to Anderson. Since you never did Overlord, you never see any of the content added in the game regarding it. Liara just miraculously becomes the Shadow Broker and essentially verbally slaps Shepard in the face because she "did it alone." I honestly can't say I enjoyed the fact that BioWare essentially forces you to buy all the ME2 DLC just to have the full story included in the base ME3 game. Especially since the DLC never goes on sale, that's just corporate greed.

[Heimdall]

If you consider exploring an environment with only collectibles and a few rifts as "content," sure.

Just because you have a new environment doesn't necessarily mean it's being used. BGS recreated Solstheim from Bloodmoon with dozens of caves and POIs, plenty of quests, and lots of activitives outside the main quest. Jaws of Hakkon isn't remotely close to that. It's a new area that you explore for a bit until the new feel wears off, and then you finish the story and it's over.

Sorry, whether or not something is content does not hinge on whether or not you like it.

[dantares83]

all these discussion meant nothing.

 

it only meant that consumers are self-entitled and kept thinking they want more because they are never satisfied.

 

my point of view is like that, DA and ME brought me great entertainment and I s**k it up by buying all the DLCs and novels and comic books and what's not. it is not just because I want to know more of the lore, but also because since they have given me a great game, I would want to support them so that more great games can hopefully be produced. so no matter how expensive the DLCs are and why they are never discounted, i always buy them because I am firm Bioware supporter. I don't ask for "MORE AND MORE AND CHEAPER AND CHEAPER" because i know they have to eat as well. and EA is a cooperation and maximizing profit is what they do and I am ok with that. They are not a charity organization.

 

of course, there is a limit to how much s**t i can take, I admit DA2 and to a little extend, ME3 (and part of it were due to peer influence as well) disappointed me to the point i was not even going to preorder DAI until Im sure it is a good game. But after I saw the trailer and Morrigan in it, I pre-ordered and thank god it was soooo good and now, I'm being a 's**ker' by buying 'expensive" DLCs. It does not matter because I support them and I can (and luckily) afford it. All i hope is that with the money made, they can make good sequels and such.

 

I mean I would feel really bad if they 'collapse' because of not making enough money and underestimating the budgets (and profits margins) by pandering to the fans too much. sure, they can do a crowdfunding and fans would flock to donate but most companies wouldn't want to go to that stage. 

 

so in conclusion, thinking of fans is value-added but i think making sure they earn enough to sustain and continue to make more good games is more important (PS: statistically, DLCs do not sell as well and thus are limited in profits making)

[KBomb]

all these discussion meant nothing.

 

it only meant that consumers are self-entitled and kept thinking they want more because they are never satisfied.

 

my point of view is like that, DA and ME brought me great entertainment and I s**k it up by buying all the DLCs and novels and comic books and what's not. it is not just because I want to know more of the lore, but also because since they have given me a great game, I would want to support them so that more great games can hopefully be produced. so no matter how expensive the DLCs are and why they are never discounted, i always buy them because I am firm Bioware supporter. I don't ask for "MORE AND MORE AND CHEAPER AND CHEAPER" because i know they have to eat as well. and EA is a cooperation and maximizing profit is what they do and I am ok with that. They are not a charity organization.

 

of course, there is a limit to how much s**t i can take, I admit DA2 and to a little extend, ME3 (and part of it were due to peer influence as well) disappointed me to the point i was not even going to preorder DAI until Im sure it is a good game. But after I saw the trailer and Morrigan in it, I pre-ordered and thank god it was soooo good and now, I'm being a 's**ker' by buying 'expensive" DLCs. It does not matter because I support them and I can (and luckily) afford it. All i hope is that with the money made, they can make good sequels and such.

 

I mean I would feel really bad if they 'collapse' because of not making enough money and underestimating the budgets (and profits margins) by pandering to the fans too much. sure, they can do a crowdfunding and fans would flock to donate but most companies wouldn't want to go to that stage. 

 

so in conclusion, thinking of fans is value-added but i think making sure they earn enough to sustain and continue to make more good games is more important (PS: statistically, DLCs do not sell as well and thus are limited in profits making)

I couldn't disagree more. I don't see it as self-entitlement to expect quality and to have standards when purchasing anything--whether it's $10 or $100.  I think a lot of people miss the point about the "too expensive" argument. For the most part, I don't think people believe $15.00 is a huge amount of money, but it's more than what the value of the product is worth to them. You can't fault someone for being a smart consumer and simply saying, "This doesn't seem like a value to me, think I'll pass.". It's not saying, "Anyone who buys this dlc is a fool.". 

 

I fully understand companies have to make money in order to make it and I am 100% on board for supporting a company that I admire and love, but if I felt the quality was slipping or becoming a product that does not meet their usual standard, I won't buy it. It only facilitates that a subpar product is acceptable and doesn't encourage them to strive to improve. If you think the product is up to standard, then by all means spend your money, but don't call those who disagree with you "entitled". I think that is a problem in this thread and in threads where people call JoH overpriced (believe me, it isn't only forumites on the BSN that feel this way). They take it too personally. They feel it invalidates their decision to purchase the product and they feel like it's a personal affront if someone doesn't enjoy it as much as they did. It isn't personal. I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly don't care if you want to shell out money for something you find entertaining. I am glad you enjoyed it, but your enjoyment and devotion has nothing to do with my money and my decisions as a consumer. 

 

I think a lot of people are also missing the point of the OP. He wasn't saying anything disrespectful against Bioware. He was saying, "I feel this is a good thing, maybe Bioware should look into this." The way some people are reacting, you'd think he called out their mother. He thinks this is a good deal. I agree. Some don't. No reason to get bothered and offended by it. (not saying you personally, speaking in general) 

 

I remember reading a lot of threads about JoH being too expensive and defenders were quick to point out that $15 wasn't a lot of money and that they would buy it regardless because they love and support Bioware, now some of those same people are in this thread stating how it's silly to think this CDPR SP is a good idea and that people shouldn't be excited about it because it isn't even out yet. Again, not speaking for others, I love Bioware--that being said, I have been a bit disappointed with some of their choices recently. As I said earlier, I feel as though the quality isn't what it used to be and if a friend had not bought me JoH as a gift, I most likely wouldn't have purchased it unless it went on sale or at all. I haven't been disappointed yet by CDPR, so I think this is a good deal and seeing as how I have never been disappointed, I will buy this SP. If it turns out to be subpar, they'll get the same treatment and I won't purchase their dlc anymore. That simple. It isn't entitlement--it's just how I choose to spend my hard earned money, just as your choices about your money are your own.