812 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

The dev team promised gamers that season passes were out of question last year. Now they have one and are telling people that is an expansion pass. this is really bad behavior and should never be imitated, it shows the lack of respect when it comes to customer intelligence. If bioware need to look at someone, go for Paradox and Obisidian.

Well, I guess they changed their mind. I am glad they did. I don't feel disrespected because they're offering more content. Personally, I have been satisfied with the series and I see it as quality, so if they want to expand and begin offering expansions at a reasonable price, along with some freebies (freebies that are sometimes charged for by other companies), then I am glad they changed their minds-- which is well within their right and scope. I don't see it as a bad thing.

If people feel their intelligence has been disrespected because more content is being offered, then they are well within their right as customers not to partake and I would encourage them to do as they see fit.

[slimgrin]

From calling bioware fans biodrones, to basically feeling superior to them. In my experience it is much, much worse than BSN.

The only time I left BSN was on the ME 3 and DA 2 nerdrage wave, the forum was really toxic at the time. The problem is not talking about the witcher, there are a lot of people that love the game and the universe here, me included. The problem is that all the arguments end up with calling people "social justice warrior" or the "witcher is a sex game" when the other side has good arguments.

The dev team promised gamers that season passes were out of question last year. Now they have one and are telling people that is an expansion pass. this is really bad behavior and should never be imitated, it shows the lack of respect when it comes to customer intelligence. If bioware need to look at someone, go for Paradox and Obisidian.

 

Except they delivered on their post release content in the past, all of it free. People here saying it was cut from the game...no. Most of it was a direct response to fan feedback, and implemented after the game. Both with TW1 and TW2. Of course most gamers would support them even if the content is not done yet - Obsidian and Larian did the same. They had an idea and asked for money. It worked. It worked brilliantly. It's not really a season pass. Ignore their PR. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Except they delivered on their post release content in the past, all of it free. People here saying it was cut from the game...no. Most of it was a direct response to fan feedback, and implemented after the game. Both with TW1 and TW2. Of course most gamers would support them even if the content is not done yet - Obsidian and Larian did the same. They had an idea and asked for money. It worked. It worked brilliantly. It's not really a season pass. Ignore their PR. 

 

I'm wondering how it's not a season pass. You pay before the game is released to get DLCs cheaper. The pass includes two DLCs, one medium sized and a big one. One can label the bundle an ''expansion'' is they want to feel better about it, I suppose. But the principle is the exact same as for a season pass.

 

I don't mean it as a pejorative. I don't have the seething hatred of DLC and season passes some people have (I just don't buy it if I don't feel it's good value). But I am somewhat amazed at the mental gymanstics required to make something that has all the hallmarks of a season pass, not a season pass, and label two DLCs (meatier than most DLCs but still), not DLCs. 

[wolfhowwl]

Biodrones
Obsidrones
Cdprojekshills
Tina Turna
Drake
 
These names yo.

It's "Obsidiots."

[Sanunes]

Sure, it's marketing stuff, yes, kind of a weird idea imho but...

 

The difference with Bioware's or other companies' DLCs is in those DLCs being..ahem...you know...free?

 

How can you berate a company for giving its customers gifts?  CDPR already did that with the Witcher 1, adding two additional adventures for no charge, one year or so after release.

 

Being the underdog in AAA RPG games - financially speaking at least - CDPR has to use innovative marketing tools to gain gamers' sympathy and penetrate the market.

 

As long as these are beneficial to the end customer, I'm more than fine with that.

 

From my understanding these "Free items" are only available if you buy the game new, so it wouldn't be any different then the options for Project $10 that EA got angry posts from "because they are forcing us to buy new".

[Ashen Nedra]

Kinda hilarious because all of that is in the books, wanting to see only what you want, sounds hypocrisy when you are calling my bias. You can focus on whatever pleases you, that does not erase the social aspect of the books, I mean what do you think Nilfgaard is or the whole Ithline's prophecy?

Ya it is best to end this here.

 

Kinda hilarious because all of that is in the books, wanting to see only what you want, sounds hypocrisy when you are calling my bias. You can focus on whatever pleases you, that does not erase the social aspect of the books, I mean what do you think Nilfgaard is or the whole Ithline's prophecy?

Ya it is best to end this here.

I have no idea.

 

Nilfgaard is a fictional empire, so it could 'be' any powerful country, Russia, USA, China of today, Napoleonic France, the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire and so on from the past, or nothing at all from real life. 

 

A fictional empire that is somewhat evil like in 90% of fantasy books.

 

People used to pester poor old JRR Tolkien with asinine statements: 'the Mordor is Nazi Germany, right, it's obvious right?' then 'surely, it's the Commies right with all their drones and oppressive society', then, 'its the US Government with the Men in Black (flower power generation and LSD).

 

He tried to remind them that LOTR was written mainly before WWII and was a retake on classical Nordic/Saxon/Celtic sagas and folk tales and that no real world interpretation should be imposed on his work. To no avail obviously.

 

Unless the author of a fictional world clearly states that his work is a social critique (Berthold Brecht and its Resistible Ascension of Arthuro Ui, for instance), I refrain from imposing social themes on a work of fiction.

 

It's a useless and unproductive pursuit only useful for getting good grades if your teacher is so inclined. As my days of majoring Literature Classes are 17 years in the past, I'm thankfully no longer obliged to do that.

 

It makes for a more relaxed approach to fiction, you should try it.

[Ashen Nedra]

From my understanding these "Free items" are only available if you buy the game new, so it wouldn't be any different then the options for Project $10 that EA got angry posts from "because they are forcing us to buy new".

I honestly don't know.

[Ashen Nedra]

A great question you'll never get an honest answer to. Even if the 16 free add-ons are items such weapons, hair, armor, etc, I don't see it as a bad thing. I know some will say, "Those things were just removed and given free in a ploy for advertising." My answer is: so? It's better than pulling them from the game and then selling them. Honestly, I don't see how this is a bad thing and I don't see how people can take offense to it because someone suggested  it should be something Bioware consider. I really am genuinely curious as to why people are so angry. 

Thank you, dear sir. I must confess that I wasn't expecting such aggressiveness.

 

I'm used to dealing with dispute and bad faith argumentation in real life, so it doesn't really bother me, but boy, what a crew against any dissonant opinion.

[BENIIICHAT]

Buy Retail version of Full game & Expansion Pack is the best way I can do to support Bioware (and other developer). That all I can say.

[Sanunes]

I honestly don't know.

 

I just checked The Witcher's website and what they say is this...

 

everyone who buys Wild Hunt will receive 16 specially prepared DLCs absolutely for free, regardless of platform.

 

Of course that makes sense, but then to me it isn't any difference to the Cerberus Pass and during the time of Mass Effect 2 people went bananas because EA forced them to either spend $10 to buy the DLC or buy the game new, but with this DLC package the way I take that sentence is you must by the game new for the bonus content.

[SofaJockey]

Of course that makes sense, but then to me it isn't any difference to the Cerberus Pass and during the time of Mass Effect 2 people went bananas because EA forced them to either spend $10 to buy the DLC or buy the game new, but with this DLC package the way I take that sentence is you must by the game new for the bonus content.

 

So is it really a 'nice' DRM ?

[Sanunes]

So is it really a 'nice' DRM ?

 

I wouldn't call it DRM, but more of an incentive to buy the game new.  It just sort of baffles me how people are saying "how awesome this is" when EA (and Ubisoft) got such flack for doing the same thing years ago.  I don't have a problem with giving players more content for the price they paid for the game, but I just want a similar reaction for all companies involved.

[LinksOcarina]

Well, I guess they changed their mind. I am glad they did. I don't feel disrespected because they're offering more content. Personally, I have been satisfied with the series and I see it as quality, so if they want to expand and begin offering expansions at a reasonable price, along with some freebies (freebies that are sometimes charged for by other companies), then I am glad they changed their minds-- which is well within their right and scope. I don't see it as a bad thing.

If people feel their intelligence has been disrespected because more content is being offered, then they are well within their right as customers not to partake and I would encourage them to do as they see fit.

 

And here is where it becomes politics, since if any other company changed their mind, they would be reviled for it.

 

It is not a bad thing at all, the issue is again the placing of games on a pedastal. I hate it when people did it with Mass Effect 3, or even outside of this forum with other titles like Borderlands 2, for example. This sort of " fanboy" mentality baffles me, because it makes people defensive and blind to any form of criticism.

 

Like real politics, I guess. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

I wouldn't call it DRM, but more of an incentive to buy the game new.  It just sort of baffles me how people are saying "how awesome this is" when EA (and Ubisoft) got such flack for doing the same thing years ago.  I don't have a problem with giving players more content for the price they paid for the game, but I just want a similar reaction for all companies involved.

 

This is exactly what's wierd to me. CDPR is far from unique in putting out bigger than average DLCs and giving free content, but they're the only company I see where this is treated as such incredible generosity. Their free DLCs is basically the equivalent of the Cerberus Network, which came free with every new copy of ME2, as you said, but I don't recall Bioware fans shouting from every rooftop that their company is the best ever because they gave free DLC. It was just cool that they did.

[SofaJockey]

And here is where it becomes politics, since if any other company changed their mind, they would be reviled for it.

 

It would seem that mileage varies.

 

When CDPR has an alteration, they have 'changed their mind'.

When BioWare has an alteration, 'they lied'.

 

I will be pleased when TW3 is out because:

1. I can play it.
2. It can be judged on what it actually is, not on an idealised view.

[Mihura]

Well, I guess they changed their mind. I am glad they did. I don't feel disrespected because they're offering more content. Personally, I have been satisfied with the series and I see it as quality, so if they want to expand and begin offering expansions at a reasonable price, along with some freebies (freebies that are sometimes charged for by other companies), then I am glad they changed their minds-- which is well within their right and scope. I don't see it as a bad thing.

If people feel their intelligence has been disrespected because more content is being offered, then they are well within their right as customers not to partake and I would encourage them to do as they see fit.

 

 

Except they delivered on their post release content in the past, all of it free. People here saying it was cut from the game...no. Most of it was a direct response to fan feedback, and implemented after the game. Both with TW1 and TW2. Of course most gamers would support them even if the content is not done yet - Obsidian and Larian did the same. They had an idea and asked for money. It worked. It worked brilliantly. It's not really a season pass. Ignore their PR. 

 

Of course I want more content and good one at that but at least CDPR should have the courage to be up front with it. If they want to do a season pass, I am totally fine with it just do not go around saying 3 or 4 months yearly that season passes sucks, than provide one with a different name. I mean not really that different the "pass" word is even there.

Unless I am mistaken Obsidian never said a word about season passes, the only thing they did was time-exclusives for the xbox, the same thing bioware did actually.

[Revan Reborn]

From my understanding these "Free items" are only available if you buy the game new, so it wouldn't be any different then the options for Project $10 that EA got angry posts from "because they are forcing us to buy new".

I don't know if this is necessarily true. It depends on how the extra DLC is delivered. Certainly, it doesn't matter if you buy the game at release or months later, you can obtain all of the 16 DLCs CDPR is offering. As far as whether it needs to be a new copy, perhaps on consoles. I doubt there is any DLC code for this (each pack will be released every other week I believe) and likely it will be a free download on GoG or just an automatic update. The same could happen for Xbox LIVE and PSN, but this question hasn't really come up. Since CDPR doesn't have a reputation of nickel and diming like BioWare/EA did with ME2/ME3, I'm under the impression anyone who has a copy will have access to the DLC.

 

I think it's interesting that the 16 free DLCs is receiving so much criticism because of allegations it was "content removed from the game." Even if it was, it's still free and a lot of it (the content dosen't just include hairstyles and new armor, but also brand new quests). Other companies, like EA, would nickel and dime content like this as Day 1 DLC unless you bought the limited edition of the game (ME3 with Javik, for example). What's even worse with that is that Javik actually has a hefty amount of dialogue and clearly was removed from the base game based on his interactions. TW3 DLC is entirely optional and doesn't in any way harm the base game from not being included.

 

Posters can try and skew the conversation however they'd like, but this comes down to basic behavior and principles on the part of both developers. As far as post-content development and service, CDPR has done a better job than BioWare. If you've played TW1 and TW2 on PC, you would know this to be true (expansion on the ending, new difficultites, arena added, tutorial, lots of new quests, modding kit, etc.). People have been begging for BioWare to support modding on PC for years and yet they have still failed to do so. Now, you can partly attribute this to BioWare being a console developer these days and CDPR still being a PC developer, but it speaks greatly about what each developer is capable of doing.

 

CDPR is independent and has a great amount of autonomy, thus they can actually do what they want and be much more receptive to their community. BioWare  is tied and bound to the AAA publisher scheme and only has as much creative will when they deliver the profits. Shorter DLCs each priced at $10-15 is more economically beneficial to AAA publishers, thus BioWare will keep pushing them out regardless of whether an expansion could do just as well, if not better. BioWare has made strides to improve their DLC practices (no longer removing/adding companions for DLC it seems), but we still have a cash shop that requires a hefty amount of funds and resources on BioWare's part with a bland and generic MP, in my opinion, that doesn't make sense for a BioWare game.

 

The point of this thread is that there is something to always be learned from others. BioWare proved they were watching BGS closely when the doctors blatantly made statements they were studying the game and seeing how they could learn from it. Alpha DAI was actually much more similar to Skyrim as it had a compass like the former rather than the silly mini-map they ended up putting in to try and be "different." Obviously, the open world and how BioWare attempted to use it is in direct response to the overwhelming success Skyrim received. TW3 is following suit in this regard as well.

 

All I want is for BioWare to watch. Obviously, it will be more beneficial once TW3 is released. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be aware now and following what and how CDPR is approaching development. Keeping Jaws of Hakkon a secret was a double-edged sword with interesting results. It was a pleasant surprise for BioWare fans who likely would have bought DLC anyways. There was no way of building anticipation or hype for the DLC because it was released a day after it was announced (unless you own a Sony console). I think in this case CDPR is right that DLC is likely to be more successful and appealing if it is announced ahead of time to build anticipation.

[In Exile]

This is exactly what's wierd to me. CDPR is far from unique in putting out bigger than average DLCs and giving free content, but they're the only company I see where this is treated as such incredible generosity. Their free DLCs is basically the equivalent of the Cerberus Network, which came free with every new copy of ME2, as you said, but I don't recall Bioware fans shouting from every rooftop that their company is the best ever because they gave free DLC. It was just cool that they did.

 

So beneath all the rhetoric, this is just project 10$ and a season pass?

[SofaJockey]

The point of this thread is that there is something to always be learned from others.

 

Congratulations, if you have learned that many people enjoy the multiplayer, then this thread will not have been wasted  .

[Giantdeathrobot]

So beneath all the rhetoric, this is just project 10$ and a season pass?

 

As I see it, yes. It looks like a meatier season pass than most, and free DLC is always welcome, but it's definitely not unheard of, and CDPR's attempts at pass it as an ''expansion'' and their free DLC as a unique gift should be taken with a big grain of salt. I like them, I like their games and they give great post-release support, but they're far from the only ones to do so in the current market, no matter what they say about industry standards to prop themselves up by comparing themselves to the worst like Call of Duty and Ubisoft games.

 

As for what Bioware can learn? I see little. They already gave free DLC in the past (Cerberus Network, EC, soon Black Emporium) and most of their paid DLCs offer decent value, hell you will find many who think LOTSB, Overlord, Citadel and Legacy (to name only those) are vital to any playthrough of their respective games. Jaws of Hakkon may be slightly overpriced, but it still has 12ish hours of content which is sizable for a DLC. It remains to be seen if TW3's DLC offer as much as value as CDPR claims they will, since they aren't out yet and we only have their word for it that they will.

[AlanC9]

As for what Bioware can learn? I see little. They already gave free DLC in the past (Cerberus Network, EC, soon Black Emporium) and most of their paid DLCs offer decent value, hell you will find many who think LOTSB, Overlord, Citadel and Legacy (to name only those) are vital to any playthrough of their respective games. Jaws of Hakkon may be slightly overpriced, but it still has 12ish hours of content which is sizable for a DLC. It remains to be seen if TW3's DLC offer as much as value as CDPR claims they will, since they aren't out yet and we only have their word for it that they will.

And that's the problem with this entire thread; we keep discussing the substance of the plan, when it's becoming clear that the substance is nothing we haven't seen before. The interesting thing is how CDPR gets people to see the same thing differently. They're pretty good at game design, but their true genius is marketing.

[Insaner Robot]

I think it's interesting that the 16 free DLCs is receiving so much criticism because of allegations it was "content removed from the game."

 

It should be possible to criticise CDPR in exactly the same manner as any other developer.

 

Even if it was, it's still free and a lot of it (the content dosen't just include hairstyles and new armor, but also brand new quests). Other companies, like EA, would nickel and dime content like this as Day 1 DLC unless you bought the limited edition of the game (ME3 with Javik, for example). What's even worse with that is that Javik actually has a hefty amount of dialogue and clearly was removed from the base game based on his interactions. TW3 DLC is entirely optional and doesn't in any way harm the base game from not being include

 

Interesting how you cherry pick Javik there.

 

Instead of comparing this free DLC to the cerberus network on Mass Effect 2. It was ongoing FREE DLC for ME2. Given to anybody that bought a new copy of the game that included weapons, armour, quests, a companion and a tank.

 

But did anyone suggest others could learn from that or that we should be grateful? No. Bioware were once again accused of removing content, 'nickel and diming' and other shady practices. So why should CDPR be immune to that?

 

The point of this thread is that there is something to always be learned from others. BioWare proved they were watching BGS closely when the doctors blatantly made statements they were studying the game and seeing how they could learn from it. Alpha DAI was actually much more similar to Skyrim as it had a compass like the former rather than the silly mini-map they ended up putting in to try and be "different." Obviously, the open world and how BioWare attempted to use it is in direct response to the overwhelming success Skyrim received. TW3 is following suit in this regard as well.

All I want is for BioWare to watch. Obviously, it will be more beneficial once TW3 is released. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be aware now and following what and how CDPR is approaching development. Keeping Jaws of Hakkon a secret was a double-edged sword with interesting results. It was a pleasant surprise for BioWare fans who likely would have bought DLC anyways. There was no way of building anticipation or hype for the DLC because it was released a day after it was announced (unless you own a Sony console). I think in this case CDPR is right that DLC is likely to be more successful and appealing if it is announced ahead of time to build anticipation.

 

 

 

What Bioware should probably take is this:

 

"They are being thanked for doing something similar to that which we were blamed for."

[Giantdeathrobot]

And that's the problem with this entire thread; we keep discussing the substance of the plan, when it's becoming clear that the substance is nothing we haven't seen before. The interesting thing is how CDPR gets people to see the same thing differently. They're pretty good at game design, but their true genius is marketing.

 

Marketing and PR, yes. As someone who works in the field, I'm actually quite impressed at the goodwill they were able to accrue by doing things that are hardly unique to them. But they put a lot of emphasis on their post-release support in their PR and they follow through with good games, so perhaps that's no surprise.

 

I mean, myself I don't really fall for it. But I can only admire how well they managed to create a stellar reputation.

 

And to add to what you say, we haven't even seen anything of said substance! Only briefs snippets with an overview and a promise of 10 and 20 hours, respectively, and already this is labeled as an exceptionnal add-on. Their declarations that they dislike season pass is even brushed off as ''they changed their mind, happens'', when if, say, an EA rep said that they wouldn't do paid DLC for Inquisition then actually did, these boards would melt under the berzerker rage. 

[Addai]

This is exactly what's wierd to me. CDPR is far from unique in putting out bigger than average DLCs and giving free content, but they're the only company I see where this is treated as such incredible generosity. Their free DLCs is basically the equivalent of the Cerberus Network, which came free with every new copy of ME2, as you said, but I don't recall Bioware fans shouting from every rooftop that their company is the best ever because they gave free DLC. It was just cool that they did.

Wait, the Cerberus Network was something other than an annoying extra login I had to go through to verify my DLC which eventually broke my Steam copy of ME2? Huh.