812 réponses à ce sujet

[agonis]

ImO CDPR sells W3 too cheap.

 

I know many have not enough money to buy all the games they wish to play, sometimes they have to save for months to buy a single game. But still if you as a developer invest so much time and money in the production of a game you should be allowed to get something for your trouble.

 

Most RPGs today are too cheap. 50-60 Dollar seems to be some kind of magical barrier. Here in Germany RPGs for PC cost about 60 Euro on release day. I comleted DAI 3 times and spend about 300 hours playing it. 60 Euro is nothing for me considering the fun I had with the game. I´m willing to pay for expensive DLC (compared to the price of the main game) because I believe the MAIN game is worth more than 60 Euro and I like to support Bioware because I enjoy their games very much.

 

I liked both Witcher games. It´s a different kind of storytelling. The Witcher 3 seems to be VERY promising. Why sell something this promising for such an absurd price and even add more content for nothing.

 

It´s a grand gesture but surely they would like to pay their bills.

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, all game companies are actually giving customers a great bargain with their games. If we follow how inflation has risen the past few decades, games that are being sold for $60 should be being sold for $100. So game companies are literally almost charging half price for their games. 

[CronoDragoon]

Yeah, all game companies are actually giving customers a great bargain with their games. If we follow how inflation has risen the past few decades, games that are being sold for $60 should be being sold for $100. So game companies are literally almost charging half price for their games. 

 

Rapid depreciation is a problem, as well. A year after a game releases it tends to be sold for 1/3 of its original price.

 

It's a great time to be a consumer, but damned if it doesn't put a lot of strain on the development industry.

[AlanC9]

Not to mention sales. You could get DAI for half price a little while ago.

 

It wasn't that long ago that $50 was the cap on game prices, was it? I don't know how long $60 will last.

[Mihura]

It is great that you guys are rich but most of the world is not, 60 euros is a lot. No one is their right mind with a family, expenses and living in a country that explores their citizens is gonna to buy games at that price. It is better to buy it at 30 or 40 euros than to pirate it in my opinion. 

[Shechinah]

Some people, myself included, cannot always even justify buying DLC until a potentially long while after it has come out.

[Steelcan]

It is great that you guys are rich but most of the world is not, 60 euros is a lot. No one is their right mind with a family, expenses and living in a country that explores their citizens is gonna to buy games at that price. It is better to buy it at 30 or 40 euros than to pirate it in my opinion. 

most of the world also can't afford video games in the first place

[KBomb]

And here is where it becomes politics, since if any other company changed their mind, they would be reviled for it.

 

It is not a bad thing at all, the issue is again the placing of games on a pedastal. I hate it when people did it with Mass Effect 3, or even outside of this forum with other titles like Borderlands 2, for example. This sort of " fanboy" mentality baffles me, because it makes people defensive and blind to any form of criticism.

 

Like real politics, I guess. 

So, I am a fanboy? First of all, I have never "reviled" a company for changing their mind. Not Bioware or any other gaming company. I have tried to make any criticism constructive and I certainly don't see The Witcher as the perfect game nor am I blind to any criticism it receives. In fact, I don't think I have ever called out someone on this forum or any other forums I am a member of for giving TW criticism and I certainly haven't felt defensive towards anyone. However, this thread is filled with defensive posts at anyone giving CDPR praise and this entire forum is filled with threads where people insult and get "defensive" because someone has critiqued Bioware or DAI. So, yeah. Politics and fanboy mentality, indeed. 

 

 

 

It would seem that mileage varies.

 

When CDPR has an alteration, they have 'changed their mind'.

When BioWare has an alteration, 'they lied'.

 

I will be pleased when TW3 is out because:

1. I can play it.
2. It can be judged on what it actually is, not on an idealised view.

 

Unless you can prove the people who stated "they changed their mind" (like I did), are the same ones who called Bioware a liar (which I never have), this point is moot and are two separate issues. As for the bolded part, of course people pre-judge things based on past experience. A lot of people on this forum did it with JoH. There were tons of people who said they were going to purchase it day one because they loved DAI or they have always been pleased with Bioware games. Which is completely fine. The Witcher series has never disappointed me, so I can say that it is a high chance TW3 isn't going to disappoint either. If it does, I will treat it as I do Bioware games now. Reviews, maybe a Youtube search, friend advice, etc before purchasing anything else. 

 

 

 

Giantdeathrobot, on 16 Apr 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:
This is exactly what's wierd to me. CDPR is far from unique in putting out bigger than average DLCs and giving free content, but they're the only company I see where this is treated as such incredible generosity. Their free DLCs is basically the equivalent of the Cerberus Network, which came free with every new copy of ME2, as you said, but I don't recall Bioware fans shouting from every rooftop that their company is the best ever because they gave free DLC. It was just cool that they did.

 

So, it's about fairness, huh? Because some people insulted Cerberus Network, they must also insult CDPR? That is kind of highschoolish. I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems quite a few people in this thread are painting everyone with the same brush. Statements like this really comes off as foot-stomping and a tad bit green. If it is about fairness, maybe those who are saying those 16 free add-ons were just cut from the game and then given out free as publicity should be called out if they purchased any armor and weapon packs from Bioware. Those who are pointing out how some people are praising this game and it's upcoming dlc without playing it first should be called out if they posted how they love Bioware and would buy JoH day-one because they know it's going to be as good as the rest of the series. Or, we could just realize that people do have tastes and preferences and have gained personal experience as gamers and with all of those things come biases-- whether we admit it or not. 

 

Bioware is an amazing company and I love their games, but if someone has felt burned by them, disappointed by them or simply displeased with them, of course they'd be more apt to see more fault in them than they would in a company who perhaps hasn't given them reason to feel disappointmented. People on both sides should stop throwing words like "fanboyism" and "biodrone" around and start celebrating and supporting the companies that they love and stop worrying about the "hate" others have. 

[In Exile]

As I see it, yes. It looks like a meatier season pass than most, and free DLC is always welcome, but it's definitely not unheard of, and CDPR's attempts at pass it as an ''expansion'' and their free DLC as a unique gift should be taken with a big grain of salt. I like them, I like their games and they give great post-release support, but they're far from the only ones to do so in the current market, no matter what they say about industry standards to prop themselves up by comparing themselves to the worst like Call of Duty and Ubisoft games.

 

As for what Bioware can learn? I see little. They already gave free DLC in the past (Cerberus Network, EC, soon Black Emporium) and most of their paid DLCs offer decent value, hell you will find many who think LOTSB, Overlord, Citadel and Legacy (to name only those) are vital to any playthrough of their respective games. Jaws of Hakkon may be slightly overpriced, but it still has 12ish hours of content which is sizable for a DLC. It remains to be seen if TW3's DLC offer as much as value as CDPR claims they will, since they aren't out yet and we only have their word for it that they will.

 

I personally thought Jaws of Hakkon was more or less worth the price (for me) given the overall content in the base game, and the set price of video-games. I think we'd see saner DLC pricing if games weren't effectively tied into one price-point. 

 

In any event I agree with you. 

[In Exile]

And that's the problem with this entire thread; we keep discussing the substance of the plan, when it's becoming clear that the substance is nothing we haven't seen before. The interesting thing is how CDPR gets people to see the same thing differently. They're pretty good at game design, but their true genius is marketing.

 

Oh, absolutely, their marketing presence is nothing sort of amazing. It's something that I honestly think should be the first stop for any case study of video game marketing. 

 

It comes down to their absolutely unprincipled and almost comically over-the-top and dishonest catering to a topic that gamers hate. You can see this with the way they handled TW2's UI and KBM controls. To say that they were complete garbage is to not do justice to their craptacular nature. They're terrible now, and they've invested a lot of time in them.

 

But what they did at release was praise the PC fanbase to such heights that their effectively doing exactly what DA:I did with PC controls (but with a worse final product) went entirely unnoticed. 

[Ashen Nedra]

Oh, absolutely, their marketing presence is nothing sort of amazing. It's something that I honestly think should be the first stop for any case study of video game marketing. 

 

It comes down to their absolutely unprincipled and almost comically over-the-top and dishonest catering to a topic that gamers hate. You can see this with the way they handled TW2's UI and KBM controls. To say that they were complete garbage is to not do justice to their craptacular nature. They're terrible now, and they've invested a lot of time in them.

 

But what they did at release was praise the PC fanbase to such heights that their effectively doing exactly what DA:I did with PC controls (but with a worse final product) went entirely unnoticed. 

I wholeheartedly disagree. they are quite manageable and compared to DAI's controls, they are a delight. I precise that I didn't engage in forum activity till 6 months ago and don't own any stock in CD Projekt. Neither am I Polish.

[Giantdeathrobot]

So, it's about fairness, huh? Because some people insulted Cerberus Network, they must also insult CDPR? That is kind of highschoolish. I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems quite a few people in this thread are painting everyone with the same brush. Statements like this really comes off as foot-stomping and a tad bit green. If it is about fairness, maybe those who are saying those 16 free add-ons were just cut from the game and then given out free as publicity should be called out if they purchased any armor and weapon packs from Bioware. Those who are pointing out how some people are praising this game and it's upcoming dlc without playing it first should be called out if they posted how they love Bioware and would buy JoH day-one because they know it's going to be as good as the rest of the series. Or, we could just realize that people do have tastes and preferences and have gained personal experience as gamers and with all of those things come biases-- whether we admit it or not. 

 

Bioware is an amazing company and I love their games, but if someone has felt burned by them, disappointed by them or simply displeased with them, of course they'd be more apt to see more fault in them than they would in a company who perhaps hasn't given them reason to feel disappointmented. People on both sides should stop throwing words like "fanboyism" and "biodrone" around and start celebrating and supporting the companies that they love and stop worrying about the "hate" others have. 

 

Uh, no, it's not about fairness. I'm highlighting the difference between the reception of two very similar products. The point is that CDPR managed to have their free DLC come across as a strong marketing point, while EA didn't and the Cerberus Network was seen as a cheap way to screw over people who bought used games. I'm making observations, not passing judgement. 

 

I mean, by all means rant about what you think I said, but at least let me answer your initial question first please.

[Ashen Nedra]

Congratulations, if you have learned that many people enjoy the multiplayer, then this thread will not have been wasted  .

Is there a private and previous conflict between the op and other posters that I'm not aware of ?

 

Because I'm seeing an incredible amount of bad faith and circular logic, even for the BSN.

[Shechinah]

(to Ashen Nedra) No, this is par for the course. We've just been having a bit of odd calm for a while npw.

[Peregrinus]

I found the Witcher 2 controls to be very functional. I think their UI design could use some work which looks like something that is being addressed in the third game. I also tried the game with a controller and it was somewhat clunky but once again functional. The same does not apply to DAI. The keyboard/mouse controls for it felt tacked on and it was awkward to use.  Perhaps, marketing should have not focused so heavily in stating that DAI was a pc game made by pc gamers because it obviously was not so. 

[Ashen Nedra]

(to Ashen Nedra) No, this is par for the course. We've just been having a bit of odd calm for a while npw.

ok at least I'm warned. Should I git off yer lawn then?

[SofaJockey]

Is there a private and previous conflict between the op and other posters that I'm not aware of ?

Because I'm seeing an incredible amount of bad faith and circular logic, even for the BSN.

 

Not that I'm aware of. My own concerns about the OPs stance is entirely generated by this thread.

I don't want to particularly dig it up again, but aspects of the OP's stance are so dismissive that they elicit a response that goes beyond logical debate.

In the same breath, aspects of DAI are dismissed as worthless trash without any analysis, whilst at the same time there is a plea to be open minded about their view. It really presses my hot button, I've been getting that a lot recently, I should probably have a lie down...

[Shechinah]

(to Ashen Nedra) No, I was being genuine in that I just see we've been having a calm in regards to bad faith and circular logic in general on BSN. It is odd because from what I've seen there used to be a lot more of it in threads and even be the starting of some threads.

 

I was not intending it as a slight towards you.  My apologies if I gave that impression.

 

Unless you actually are on my lawn, in which case I am not sorry and you have ten seconds to get off it before I release the hounds. They may be small but by gosdarhnit, their teeth can hurt like the devil's claws and horns. 

[Ashen Nedra]

Not that I'm aware of. My own concerns about the OPs stance is entirely generated by this thread.

I don't want to particularly dig it up again, but aspects of the OP's stance are so dismissive that they elicit a response that goes beyond logical debate.

In the same breath, aspects of DAI are dismissed as worthless trash without any analysis, whilst at the same time there is a plea to be open minded about their view. It really presses my hot button, I've been getting that a lot recently, I should probably have a lie down...

Ok. you might be right. I didn't read the whole thread, merely scanning it. I honestly can't find fault with what CDPR has been doing till then regarding business ethics, so a little surprised by the passion against the Witcher and CDPR.

[Ashen Nedra]

(to Ashen Nedra) No, I was being genuine in that I just see we've been having a calm in regards to bad faith and circular logic in general on BSN. It is odd because from what I've seen there used to be a lot more of it in threads and even be the starting of some threads.

 

I was not intending it as a slight towards you.  My apologies if I gave that impression.

 

Unless you actually are on my lawn, in which case I am not sorry and you have ten seconds to get off it before I release the hounds. They may be small but by gosdarhnit, their teeth can hurt like the devil's claws and horns. 

No problem, it was mostly a joke on my part.

 

I haven't been posting regularly in Scuttlebut, being one of the DAI's critics and tired of fighting.

 

I find it a little sad that the BSN is basically now comprised of several communities and even threads where everybody stick together and talk between like-minded individuals.

 

Well, c'est la vie.

[Morroian]

And that's the problem with this entire thread; we keep discussing the substance of the plan, when it's becoming clear that the substance is nothing we haven't seen before. The interesting thing is how CDPR gets people to see the same thing differently. They're pretty good at game design, but their true genius is marketing.

 

From what I understand they have been facing quite a lot of criticism from fans about this decision.

[SofaJockey]

Ok. you might be right. I didn't read the whole thread, merely scanning it. I honestly can't find fault with what CDPR has been doing till then regarding business ethics, so a little surprised by the passion against the Witcher and CDPR.

 

And personally I like what CDPR has been up to, heck I've started replaying TW2 and I have my TW3 pre-order placed.

I like fantasy-world actionRPG, so it stands to reason that both DA and TW would be on my 'like' list.

 

What I don't like is when DAI and TW3 are used as exemplars with the purpose of kicking or provoking those who like the other franchise (instead of, or as well). Pillars of Eternity is out, great, The Witcher 3 is coming, wonderful. Neither of those things should be a basis for name-calling.

 

Finally, it amuses me that TW3 is seen as the poster boy for those who follow the 'BioWare turns you gay' school of thinking. Just because TW3 has a different style of earthy sexuality compared to the more progressive diversity typical of BioWare does not diminish CDPR in my view, they just have different styles. I have no reason to believe that CDPR supports bigotry any more than any other professional game studio.

 

TL;DR - I'm just a bit tired of the 'oh look, xyz game is out, that's proof that DAI is sh*t': can't folk just be a bit nicer about fantasy/RPG game franchises, as they remain niche content next to shooters/sports games and so must be cherished, faults and all.

 

From what I understand they have been facing quite a lot of criticism from fans about this decision.

 

Ha. I must have missed it among the 200 page threads complaining about the graphical fidelity of the grass 

(and CDPR mods are much less tolerant of unconstructive posts on their forums  )

[Mihura]

most of the world also can't afford video games in the first place

 

Sure but on euros I am assuming you are living in the UE and that is my general experience in this place. People still can buy games but are looking for a deal, that is better than nothing.

 

I did play the game at release and it was horrible with KBM, it was only functional on the xbox 360 control. Also they didn't have some resolution like 1280 x 1024, their overall HUD was a console port. Some people did complain about that but not to that much nerdrage was seen.

[9TailsFox]

Ha. I must have missed it among the 200 page threads complaining about the graphical fidelity of the grass 

(and CDPR mods are much less tolerant of unconstructive posts on their forums  )

Ah grass clipping worst game ever  Witcher forum have his share of "fun" topics. My most favorite muslim trying to convince how evil nudity is.

[Sanunes]

Ok. you might be right. I didn't read the whole thread, merely scanning it. I honestly can't find fault with what CDPR has been doing till then regarding business ethics, so a little surprised by the passion against the Witcher and CDPR.

 

My issue isn't with CDPR, but with the attitude surrounding them by their fans. Such as how great they are for giving free DLC, but when BioWare did The Cerberus Network they were bad because they were attacked the used game market.  The other thing that I am find fault with is really comparing any aspect of released content against content that hasn't been released yet, for it is comparing a real thing against something that doesn't exist yet.  Of course my opinion on that will change in about five weeks when The Witcher 3 is released.