812 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

What arbitrary measurement are you defining an expansion versus a DLC by? Because I classify every bit of content you just described as DLC.

You obviously don't know the difference between an expansion and DLC then. I will explain:

 

DLC is standard add-on content that could provide new outfits, weapons, a few new quests, maybe a house, or even the infamous horse armor. All DLC does is add to the base game. It cannot be a separate, standalone experience.

 

Expansions are entirely new experiences that can be considered standalone from the base game. Tribunal, Bloodmoon, and Shivering Isles, which BGS explicitly stated were expansions, could all be played in isolation of base Morrowind and base Oblivion. Expansions generally also consist of a new area, lots of new content, a brand new story, and generally will take more than ten hours, if not more, to complete.

 

Expansions are largely a dying breed in games outside of MMORPGs. They are expensive, take time to make, and developers would rather just do something shorter or make an entirely new game. The expansions that I have mentioned, however, performend exceptionally well and CDPR recognized this. CDPR understands the true popularity of expansions versus just dlc, which they are including for free, so they are going back to what more RPGs used to do.

[Heimdall]

You obviously don't know the difference between an expansion and DLC then. I will explain:

DLC is standard add-on content that could provide new outfits, weapons, a few new quests, maybe a house, or even the infamous horse armor. All DLC does is add to the base game. It cannot be a separate, standalone experience.

Expansions are entirely new experiences that can be considered standalone from the base game. Tribunal, Bloodmoon, and Shivering Isles, which BGS explicitly stated were expansions, could all be played in isolation of base Morrowind and base Oblivion. Expansions generally also consist of a new area, lots of new content, a brand new story, and generally will take more than ten hours, if not more, to complete.

Expansions are largely a dying breed in games outside of MMORPGs. They are expensive, take time to make, and developers would rather just do something shorter or make an entirely new game. The expansions that I have mentioned, however, performend exceptionally well and CDPR recognized this. CDPR understands the true popularity of expansions versus just dlc, which they are including for free, so they are going back to what more RPGs used to do.

Again, by that arbitrary definition, Mark of the Assassin and Legacy could be be considered expansions. They're standalone content providing new areas, a number of new quests and content.

So how is Jaws of Hakkon a DLC and Dragonborn an expansion as you seem to consider it?

[X Equestris]

Doing research really doesn't take that long. I encourage more to take the time to do it:
 
https://steamdb.info/app/47810/graphs/(Steam statistics for UE)
http://www.vgchartz....akening/Global/(Awakening on Xbox 360)
http://www.vgchartz....gins-awakening/(Awakening on PS3)
http://www.vgchartz....gins-awakening/(Awakening on PC)
 
As you should be able to clearly see, when you combine the sales of Awakening on all platforms, it performed exceptionally well.

And I'm guessing you don't know how much it took to make the expansion, do you? Because sales and profits aren't the same thing.

[Revan Reborn]

Again, by that arbitrary definition, Mark of the Assassin and Legacy could be be considered expansions. They're standalone content providing new areas, a number of new quests and content.

So how is Jaws of Hakkon a DLC and Dragonborn an expansion as you seem to consider it?

No, not necessarily. For one, Mark of the Assassin and Legacy are extremely short compared to the expansions that were already mentioned. It would be more appropriate to consider them being larger DLCs, which they were, because they cost more than some of the smaller ones.

 

Again, it's the actual time and density of content. Sure, Jaws of Hakkon added a new environment. However, compared to Dragonborn, it's actually quite brief and shallow. Dragonborn was very content-intense with the main storyline, as well as plenty of side quests, dungeons, and other points of interest to explore. You cannot beat Dragonborn in ten hours if you try to complete everything, which you allegedly can do with Jaws of Hakkon, if it's even that long.

 

And I'm guessing you don't know how much it took to make the expansion, do you? Because sales and profits aren't the same thing.

Am I part of the Executive Board for Electronic Arts? Obviously I don't have all the numbers and neither will anybody else. The point I made is that DA:A sold very well for an expansion to a base game.

[X Equestris]

Am I part of the Executive Board for Electronic Arts? Obviously I don't have all the numbers and neither will anybody else. The point I made is that DA:A sold very well for an expansion to a base game.

Sold well, maybe. However, you said, in your original post and later in this thread, that it was very profitable. Something selling well doesn't mean it is profitable.

[wolfhowwl]

Perhaps the people with actual financial information concerning sales, profitability, and ROI, you know not ****** VGchartz, concluded that it is a better business strategy to release small episodic DLCs instead of a full-blown expansion.

[Revan Reborn]

Sold well, maybe. However, you said, in your original post and later in this thread, that it was very profitable. Something selling well doesn't mean it is profitable.

In its most basic concept, if something outsells the price it required to make that product, it is making a profit. SWTOR, for example, was making a profit after the first week. It was the fastest growing MMORPG to date and BioWare/EA obtained the $150 million that was invested into the project in a very short amount of time. An expansion isn't nearly as expensive as a base game and the numbers we do have shows it sold very well. It's not unreasonable to believe it was profitable, especially since it was repackaged again in the Ultimate Edition.

[Revan Reborn]

Perhaps the people with actual financial information concerning sales, profitability, and ROI, you know not ****** VGchartz, concluded that it is a better business strategy to release small episodic DLCs instead of a full-blown expansion.

EA is not, nor will they ever, do anything to your benefit. They will sell whatever maximizes profits for them, even if it's crap. That's how business works. It doesn't matter how successful Awakening was. Again, this goes back to businesses being risk-averse and wanting short-term returns and no long-term commitments.

[X Equestris]

In its most basic concept, if something outsells the price it required to make that product, it is making a profit. SWTOR, for example, was making a profit after the first week. It was the fastest growing MMORPG to date and BioWare/EA obtained the $150 million that was invested into the project in a very short amount of time. An expansion isn't nearly as expensive as a base game and the numbers we do have shows it sold very well. It's not unreasonable to believe it was profitable, especially since it was repackaged again in the Ultimate Edition.

It takes zero effort to repackage something in an Ultimate Edition. That hardly proves anything. And of course it likely turned a profit. I doubt there would have been more dlc if it didn't. However, I'm objecting to you saying that it was super profitable when there is little to back that up.

[Revan Reborn]

It takes zero effort to repackage something in an Ultimate Edition. That hardly proves anything. And of course it likely turned a profit. I doubt there would have been more dlc if it didn't. However, I'm objecting to you saying that it was super profitable when there is little to back that up.

Again, you are failing to understand. Being repackaged into an Ultimate Edition that would bolster more sales would add to the profitability of Awakening. If consumers were buying the Ultimate Edition, it is very likely because they wanted the base game AND Awakening all in one. Otherwise, if Awakening wasn't profitable nor well-received, no one would have wasted their money buying the Ultimate Edition. In order for any bundle to have any value or worth, what is offered has to provide some semblance of incentive to start. You can continue to object all you want, although I see little value in you doing so. If you are not interested in expansions, merely make your point clear and move on.

[Kantr]

I played dragonborn. There wasn't a huge amount of content in there.

 

CDPR can do what they like because they are publisher and developer. They have the funds to do it all, they aren't beholden to profits as much as bioware have to be running a large studio.

[X Equestris]

Again, you are failing to understand. Being repackaged into an Ultimate Edition that would bolster more sales would add to the profitability of Awakening. If consumers were buying the Ultimate Edition, it is very likely because they wanted the base game AND Awakening all in one. Otherwise, if Awakening wasn't profitable nor well-received, no one would have wasted their money buying the Ultimate Edition. In order for any bundle to have any value or worth, what is offered has to provide some semblance of incentive to start. You can continue to object all you want, although I see little value in you doing so. If you are not interested in expansions, merely make your point clear and move on.

Or maybe it's because you get people coming along later and realizing that buying the Ultimate Edition is cheaper than buying the game and its dlcs separately. That was certainly the case when I bought the Legendary Edition for Skyrim.

[Revan Reborn]

I played dragonborn. There wasn't a huge amount of content in there.

 

CDPR can do what they like because they are publisher and developer. They have the funds to do it all, they aren't beholden to profits as much as bioware have to be running a large studio.

You may want to replay through it again. You could make that argument with Dawnguard, which is definitely a large DLC addition. Dragonborn, on the other hand, added a lot of new features and content to the game.

 

Yes. I explained this earlier. CDPR and BGS have a lot more flexibility because they are privately-owned and aren't accountable to investors expecting increased profit margins every quarter. That being said, this shouldn't be an excuse for BioWare not to try and compete. Ironically, CDPR's two major inspirations are BGS and BioWare. The Witcher 1 even used BioWare's Aurora Engine, which BioWare used to create KotOR. Story, choices, and cutscenes from The Witcher are also heavily inspired by BioWare.

 

If BioWare can't find a way to compete on the same level with someone such as CDPR, I fear BioWare could fally into irrelevancy as a result. EA has plenty of money. They are more than capable of doing everything CDPR can. The issue is EA needs to recognize what the competition is doing, how successful it is, and counter with a similar strategy.

[Heimdall]

No, not necessarily. For one, Mark of the Assassin and Legacy are extremely short compared to the expansions that were already mentioned. It would be more appropriate to consider them being larger DLCs, which they were, because they cost more than some of the smaller ones.

Again, it's the actual time and density of content. Sure, Jaws of Hakkon added a new environment. However, compared to Dragonborn, it's actually quite brief and shallow. Dragonborn was very content-intense with the main storyline, as well as plenty of side quests, dungeons, and other points of interest to explore. You cannot beat Dragonborn in ten hours if you try to complete everything, which you allegedly can do with Jaws of Hakkon, if it's even that long.

So it's really just the amount of content. In that case... The label is definitely arbitrary. Really, it's just longer or shorter DLC.

So just cut through the marketing jargon and say you want more content for your money.

I really don't have a problem with wanting more or preferring meatier adventures, but the insistence on that arbitrary distinction between DLC and expansions annoys me.

As far as I'm concerned, "expansion" has become a marketing term some companies use to make their add-ons sound more substantial and unhappy fans use to claim corporate greed is ruining gaming when they don't get them.

But it doesn't mean anything.

[BobZilla84]

From what I've seen and my own personal experiences people do remember the DLC of DA2.
 
"Legacy" and "Mark of the Assassin" were seen by some as an improvement of DA2 and characters as well as elements from both of them are mentioned on the forums. There was a thread not too long ago about Tallis and Corypheus, well, Corypheus.
 
I'm not just talking about his appearance and role in this game but that people on the forums references things from "Legacy" about him like his battle, his "death" and so forth meaning he is memorable enough for people to recall those things. Sure, some use information or refresh memories by using the Wikipedia but most who bring up his fight does so in conjunction with their own experiences, feelings and thoughts relating to it. This suggest to me that both of the DLC were memorable enough to be remembered, not to and by all but still to a fair amount of people.

Well to be fair anything would have been an improvement to DA2 that game was a wreck all around.Legacy was a step in the right direction it showed what DA2 should have been like you know different enviroments and a good story to bad we didnt get either in DA2.Mark of The Assassin on the other hand was one of the worst Dlcs ever it was an onrail Dlc that gave you no real urgency your choices were irrelevant in the end.

B-Ware really needs to understand Inquistion needs a lot more story content because at this point its more filler than quality story and for some damn reason they keep filling it with more and more filler content you know Collectables and other useless garbage.

[Revan Reborn]

So it's really just the amount of content. In that case... The label is definitely arbitrary. Really, it's just longer or shorter DLC.

So just cut through the marketing jargon and say you want more content for your money.

I really don't have a problem with wanting more or preferring meatier adventures, but the insistence on that arbitrary distinction between DLC and expansions annoys me.

As far as I'm concerned, "expansion" has become a marketing term some companies use to make their add-ons sound more substantial and unhappy fans use to claim corporate greed is ruining gaming when they don't get them.

But it doesn't mean anything.

Spin it how you'd like. Another way of noting something is an expansion is when it is sold separately as a physical copy to the base game. This was the case with Awakening, Bloodmoon, Tribunal, and Shivering Isles. This practice is largely irrelevant now due to the advent and convenience of digital downloads.

 

Either way, the distinction has always been rather clear based on those who made "expansions" and those who made "dlc." You could tell a substantial difference, and yes, usually the amount of content was one of the largest contributing factors.

 

Well to be fair anything would have been an improvement to DA2 that game was a wreck all around.Legacy was a step in the right direction it showed what DA2 should have been like you know different enviroments and a good story to bad we didnt get either in DA2.Mark of The Assassin on the other hand was one of the worst Dlcs ever it was an onrail Dlc that gave you no real urgency your choices were irrelevant in the end.

B-Ware really needs to understand Inquistion needs a lot more story content because at this point its more filler than quality story and for some damn reason they keep filling it with more and more filler content you know Collectables and other useless garbage.

I agree. I like that Inquisition incorporated a more open world with a focus on exploration. However, repeatables and collectibles are NOT the way to make an interesting pseudo-open world game. BioWare only has to look to BGS, Rockstar, Volition, and many others to see an open world experience done more appropriately. The open world experience, which is lacking to start, shouldn't replace the story, which is the cornerstone of every BioWare game.

[SofaJockey]

A few things:

• This thread should be in the feedback section.
• The OP assumes much about what people think, it is not that cut and dried.
• Assessments of the financial success of DLC by the community are largely guesswork.
• How about we assess the success of the Witcher 3's DLC model after they release it.

[Revan Reborn]

 

A few things:

• This thread should be in the feedback section.
• The OP assumes much about what people think, it is not that cut and dried.
• Assessments of the financial success of DLC by the community are largely guesswork.
• How about we assess the success of the Witcher 3's DLC model after they release it.

 

1. From my personal experience, BioWare doesn't actually seem to follow the feedback section of any of these forums very closely. They are much more active in scuttlebutt, if they are to look anywhere. If you'd like, you can create this thread there.

 

2. I only speak for myself and those who I have discussed expansions and DLC with. It seems to be unanimous that the BioWare fans I've talked to loved Awakening and would love to see a return to expansions in BioWare games. Most of the dlc is received with mix reviews while Shadow Broker and Citadel (both large dlcs) were postively received.

 

3. I am going purely off of numbers EA has released in financial calls or statistics accumulated through the following of sales. It's worth noting these numbers likely don't take into consideration digital download, so nothing is as clear as it appears.

 

4. 16 free DLC updates as well as two expansions, with over 30 hours of content, for the normal price of a season pass. We don't need to know how well TW3's DLC and expansions do to understand that's an incredibly amazing deal.

[Heimdall]

Spin it how you'd like. Another way of noting something is an expansion is when it is sold separately as a physical copy to the base game. This was the case with Awakening, Bloodmoon, Tribunal, and Shivering Isles. This practice is largely irrelevant now due to the advent and convenience of digital downloads.

Awakening was downloadable. I know people that call it DLC and were rather confused that I distinguished it from the other DAO DLC, as something different.

Either way, the distinction has always been rather clear based on those who made "expansions" and those who made "dlc." You could tell a substantial difference, and yes, usually the amount of content was one of the largest contributing factors.

In other words, it's completely arbitrary.

Your failure to elaborate on these distinctions has not convinced me of their existence.

[AlanC9]

This is a joke, right? What you've posted suggests DA:A sold 830,000 units (give or take). That's horrible, especially when DA:O moved millions of units. The math works out to something like only 1 in 4 DA:O users bought DA:A.

That's about all you could expect, DA:O completion stats being what they are

[X Equestris]

That's about all you could expect, DA:O completion stats being what they are

Completion stats are pretty low for most games. Dlc completion is even lower.

[Midz]

When I saw DLC pass I was like " No not you you were the chosen one  " but then I saw it will be like next year And I was "Oh good luck more Witcher "

And Witcher 2 improved in everything. DA each game worse DA:I have big levels "good" graphics "plastic hair  " 2 thinks I don't even care. And downgraded everything else "no tactics really?"

 

And your last point BiowarEA, I am tired of this argument blame throw, Like EA an Bioware 2 separate thinks. I am not sorry I am customer and I judge end product an it's price. And if cake cost 14.99 and other sell 2 even much bigger and better cakes for 22.89. It's not my problem one seller greedy.

And CDPR is "overlord"

 

Im sorry we keep seeing repeated Witcher improved in everything  really?

 

Modability ...as did some for both ... W1 was very very moddable ..W2  was not and had to wait  for the tools  for a long long time..

 

Story Content ...you seriously   want to claim W2  has more story content than W1 ?

 

Only areas improved were graphics and music  the rest  of the hyperbole is mute W3  will wait and see

[Revan Reborn]

That's about all you could expect, DA:O completion stats being what they are

 

 

Completion stats are pretty low for most games. Dlc completion is even lower.

 

This is why it's important to understand the distinction from just a base game and an expansion. In isolation, DA:A did exceptionally well. The problem when one just looks at statistics or numbers without a full context is you largely come away with the wrong impression of what is happening. Numbers are a supplement to an answer, not the answer itself.

[AlanC9]

Awakening was downloadable. I know people that call it DLC and were rather confused that I distinguished it from the other DAO DLC, as something different.In other words, it's completely arbitrary.
Your failure to elaborate on these distinctions has not convinced me of their existence.

Well, most distinctions are arbitrary to some extent. I don't think it's very sensible to get hung up on whether or not "expansion" is a thing -- if that isn't the case , the debate just moves to whether one big relatively cheap DLC is better than several smaller ones.

[Mihura]

I find it funny that for all the elitism in The Witcher community, they sure can eat easily classic PR marketing and at the same time be enraged at the "biodrones". This is a season pass, they can change the name if they want but it is still content being offered in a pack before the game is even out. Also 30 hours of content for more than half of the price of the game is a joke, at least for the supposed fandom standards.

Personally I think it is good for them, everyone is doing it and if CDPR can release a good product, why shouldn't they do it too? they have a bigger company now, it is normal to get in the DLC train.

Either way really hype for this game too, hope their open world is good and not a hindrance for the quality of the story.