812 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashen Nedra]

Yes that's fair comment - I have a bit of a soft spot for the DA multiplayer so my hackles were straight up  . You are right to highlight the principle.

 

 

It's an unfortunate truth that change is painful. We all have games we loved, some recent, others in the dim and distant past. New games must match a rather rose-tinted nostalgia. When I have actually tried to play a game a decade old I am struck by how crude they are, despite my deep fondness. Sure, I get how it can hurt if a game you have built up in your head, sometimes for years, falls short of that aspiration, but equally to fall into bitter and twisted hate and feelings of betrayal is not healthy either.

I don't think nostalgia can explain everything. Speaking only for myself, I was at first very wary of the change from ME1 to ME2 regarding the combat and the simplification of traditional RPG elements such as inventory.

 

After a few hours I concluded that the formula was successful for this game and now consider ME2 a masterpiece, very weak main plot aside.

 

A word on the ideology of progress applied to the DA series and video games in general: changing things for the sake of changing things is nonsensical. Change is not progress. The renouncement of DAI to many things present in DA and DA2 in favor of a more action-oriented, follow-the-radar-to-solve-quests, play-it-like-a-shooter-with-a-controller, was by no means an inevitable and logical conclusion.

 

If a formula works, why not improve it incrementally and expand on it? Don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you, things not broken and all that.

 

 

As for expectations, and that's -as you may know- where my true beef lies, they were misleading advertisements and marketing campaign announcing a return to the roots of Bioware games and a PC version especially designed for PC most notably the interface and KB/mouse control scheme, in the Infamous Video.

 

I'm not into the habit of building castles in the sky about a non-released game. I was actually not going to buy DAI at release given the information in my possession when I saw the same day the Infamous Video and David Gaider with moist eyes of pride during a Twitch stream.

 

Therefore and in consideration of the final product delivered, I felt -and imho was- manipulated and lied to. I can't speak for others.

[In Exile]

I have to disagree with you as many people posted that the combat controls for TW2 were not responsive and needed fixing among other things and I also posted that combat in DA2 was better so stop saying that is what people said.

TW3 combat looks better but we will see when we play the game.

 

I'm talking pre-release here, and after the release there was by no means a furor as bad as with DA:I. 

[AlanC9]

I have not played StarCraft so don’t know the difference but the leviathan dlc should have been in the original game as it was part of the Mass Effect story.

I'm with Shechinah here. I don't really see what the criterion is for being "part of the story."

[SofaJockey]

I'm talking pre-release here, and after the release there was by no means a furor as bad as with DA:I. 

 

Has to be said, replaying TW2 on XB360, the movement and combat is much less precise than DAI.

I also miss the mini-map pinging where loot is... I hope TW3 controls are as good as DAI or better.

[fchopin]

(to fchopin) Do you mind elaborating on why you consider it so?

If you mean with the citadel dlc then I made a mistake, thought it was the leviathan dlc.
For me citadel dlc should me in ME3 is at has nothing to do with the game.

[Joseph Warrick]

Skipping the CDPR flamebait... I haven't bothered with most of Bioware DLC tbh. It makes no sense to me to pay $10 for ME2 and another $10 for a two hours DLC. For this reason I haven't bought From Ashes, Omega, or Overlord. Matter of fact the only modern DLC I own are Citadel and Shadow Broker. I do own Awakening and of course Hordes of the Underdark. I prefer to wait for something more substantive as opposed to a steady flow of not much.

[fchopin]

I'm talking pre-release here, and after the release there was by no means a furor as bad as with DA:I.

The reason why DAI got a worst reception is because they tried to hide the changes with no auto attack and no click to move among other things for the PC.
If they were more open on the changes there would have been less complains.

[SnakeCode]

Has to be said, replaying TW2 on XB360, the movement and combat is much less precise than DAI.

I also miss the mini-map pinging where loot is... I hope TW3 controls are as good as DAI or better.

 

TW3 just has loot and PoI show up on the mini map as soon as you get within a certain distance of them. I much prefer this aproach to the sonar pinging of the surrounding area. It was really immersion breaking for me.

[KBomb]

TW3 just has loot and PoI show up on the mini map as soon as you get within a certain distance of them. I much prefer this aproach to the sonar pinging of the surrounding area. It was really immersion breaking for me.

Jesus, how I hate that sonar ping. I hate the "search" option. If not for my controller vibrating, I would never find a damn thing since I can't hear the "ping". So frustrating.

[Shechinah]

(to SnakeCode & KBomb) Yeah, I'll admit I'm not terrible fond of the sonar either and prefer the old highlighting that was in the previous installments. I think it's the sound and how it looks. It just felt out of place to me in the setting both with the sound and appearance. Maybe if it had somehow been tied to the mark and was like a magical sweep that flowed over things and marked them like that. I don't know, I hope they bring back highlighting in the next addition.

 

Although I did get a kick out of occasionally imaging my Inquisitors having their silly moments and making the sonar sounds themselves.

[wolfhowwl]

I have not played StarCraft so don’t know the difference but the leviathan dlc should have been in the original game as it was part of the Mass Effect story.

Edit: changed citadel to leviathan.

 

What would be cut from the ME3 campaign to fit Leviathan in?

 

I think it's reasonable to assume that they used their allotted budget with what we got in March 2012.

[fchopin]

What would be cut from the ME3 campaign to fit Leviathan in?
 
I think it's reasonable to assume that they used their allotted budget with what we got in March 2012.

Why would they cut something? they should make a better budget so it would be included within the time frame.

[Heimdall]

Why would they cut something? they should make a better budget so it would be included within the time frame.

As I understand it, they hadn't even thought up Leviathan until the base game was almost complete.

[AlanC9]

I'm not into the habit of building castles in the sky about a non-released game. I was actually not going to buy DAI at release given the information in my possession when I saw the same day the Infamous Video and David Gaider with moist eyes of pride during a Twitch stream.

Which video would that be?

[AlanC9]

Why would they cut something? they should make a better budget so it would be included within the time frame.

I don't think anyone's budget process works that way. The whole point of a budget is to reconcile your desires with your means. That's why they're called "budgets."

Anyway, it's academic. Heimdall's right; there's no evidence Bio had thought of Leviathan when the ME3 budget was drawn up. The leaked script doesn't have a trace of it, and any major plot arcs would have had to be in by that point.

[Ashen Nedra]

Which video would that be?

Seriously?

 

This one:

 

 

 

I especially like the sentence from the lady at 0.23.

[Hiemoth]

Seriously?

 

This one:

 

 

 

I especially like the sentence from the lady at 0.23.

 

I'm confused as there is nothign in that video that isn't in the actual game? The thing they don't mention is the lack of auto-attack, which isn't necessarily by intent as they focus on the tactical mode which has autoattack.

[9TailsFox]

  More immersion breaking than just the fact that you have any sort of minimap, signifying some sort of scanning tech regardless of whether you hear a ping, in a medieval game setting?

Well I think is better to have magical map than play as dolphin.

[9TailsFox]

I'm confused as there is nothign in that video that isn't in the actual game? The thing they don't mention is the lack of auto-attack, which isn't necessarily by intent as they focus on the tactical mode which has autoattack.

Game made specifically for PC. Witch playing actual game prove this was a lie.

[Hiemoth]

I don't think nostalgia can explain everything. Speaking only for myself, I was at first very wary of the change from ME1 to ME2 regarding the combat and the simplification of traditional RPG elements such as inventory.

 

After a few hours I concluded that the formula was successful for this game and now consider ME2 a masterpiece, very weak main plot aside.

 

A word on the ideology of progress applied to the DA series and video games in general: changing things for the sake of changing things is nonsensical. Change is not progress. The renouncement of DAI to many things present in DA and DA2 in favor of a more action-oriented, follow-the-radar-to-solve-quests, play-it-like-a-shooter-with-a-controller, was by no means an inevitable and logical conclusion.

 

If a formula works, why not improve it incrementally and expand on it? Don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you, things not broken and all that.

 

 

As for expectations, and that's -as you may know- where my true beef lies, they were misleading advertisements and marketing campaign announcing a return to the roots of Bioware games and a PC version especially designed for PC most notably the interface and KB/mouse control scheme, in the Infamous Video.

 

I'm not into the habit of building castles in the sky about a non-released game. I was actually not going to buy DAI at release given the information in my possession when I saw the same day the Infamous Video and David Gaider with moist eyes of pride during a Twitch stream.

 

Therefore and in consideration of the final product delivered, I felt -and imho was- manipulated and lied to. I can't speak for others.

 

I will that I am slightly confused by the beginning of your post, as you seem to state that you liked the end result in the massive shift from systems between ME1 and ME2, but then ask why change things greatly? Also, as a fan of DA2, I am slightly amused that it now used as an example of tactical gameplay along with DAO, which I actually agree with, but after reading so many posts about the action game that DA2 allegedly was gets a chuckle from me.

 

Then to the actual meat of the argument. While I am not exactly crazy about the current end result, I would actually argue that what we see in DAI is a continuation of the direction BW was going for in the transition from DAO to DA2 and which I conceptually agree with. To me the switch in encounter design in DA2, with the newly refreshed enemy ranks, was intended to force the player to be constantly engaged in the combat instead of just giving the orders and watching it roll out. This intention is to me apparent in the encounter design in DAI, by trying to force the player to even more actively choose locations and times for special abilites. However, as an unfortunate consequence of the total change in encounter design, all the previous tactics no longer worked in this system. Additionally, by making the abilities so dependent on the interaction they were simply almost impossible to leave to AI, resulting in most party members becoming dead weight if you don't actively direct them. Thus the system requires you to be constantly active in combat, which seems to have been their purpose throughtout, but just takes a different approach to it. The no health regeneration is similar, as in DA2 they did actively try to limit the amount of healing you had by slowing the healing cooling and limiting the amount of health potions you could find. Although they kind of shot themselves to the foot with the elf root potions in that regard.

[Hiemoth]

Well I think is better to have magical map than play as dolphin.

 

And that is an utterly arbitrary distinction. This isn't to say that you can't like that option more, but it is also a weak universal truth argument.

 

Game made specifically for PC. Witch playing actual game prove this was a lie.

 

No, a game interface done specifically for PC, which it did have. If they had made the game specifically for PC, then the console ports would have been really awful.

 

The interface is different between PC and consoles, that is true and thus their claim is true. There have been awful PC specific user interfaces before.

[KBomb]

More immersion breaking than just the fact that you have any sort of minimap, signifying some sort of scanning tech regardless of whether you hear a ping, in a medieval game setting?

I can say that I would much rather have the visual map than a ping system. It doesn't break my immersion, but it does make a frustrating go of searching. It's okay with loot because when you scan, it shows up in map as dots. However, searching for a hidden object is a pain in the ass for a deaf person. My controller vibrates, but even if I am in the general area it vibrates hard. I still have to walk a graph spamming scan and hope it pops up. Just an unnecessary mechanic, IMO.

[SofaJockey]

Game made specifically for PC. Witch playing actual game prove this was a lie.

 

This is just semantics.

The game plays on a PC therefore it was made for PC.

It was also made for XB1/360 PS3/4.

 

Whether it was made to play well on PC with KB/M to some PC players' satisfaction is another matter, that's still not a lie.

[Rizilliant]

Some of you claiming all these companies selling their product for $60 are doing us some sort of favor.. How many of these games are pure garbage.. Unfinished, half arsed, rushed, flat, linear, lies?! How much of the "marketing hype" is ok, before it becomes illegal, and flatout lies? While sure, some games are worth the $60, many are not, yet still charge it.. Then the nickle, and dimes that plague all of gaming now.. Rent character slots, inventory space, buy different colors for your weapons, new armor skins, mounts, double experiencing for 24hrs, etc?! 

 

Dont sit there, and try and tell me, im getting off easy.. Ive more than lost my share in the 30yrs ive been gaming.. Hell, the NES games i bought in the 80's were $50.. That wasnt reasonable back then.. You feel you should be paying more? Well, ill say to you what i tell Liberals screaming that the top 1% needs to pay even MORE than they already are.. You are always allowed, to pay more taxes.. Similarly, you, Mr Gamer, are allowed to "Domate" to the companies you endorse.. WHich is exactly what pre ordering is.. Giving money to the company, showing you are endorsing them.. Or, invest in the stock market...

 

But dont dare tell me, i should be paying more! Games are to the point where the upwards of $180-200 for all the dlc to complete the story, or collectors editions, etc.. NO GAME only costs $60 anymore!