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[BSpud]

My favorite part is when the OP totally dismissed Bioware's actual reasons because they contradicted the OP's pet conjecture.

[Revan Reborn]

My favorite part is when the OP totally dismissed Bioware's actual reasons because they contradicted the OP's pet conjecture.

What "actual reasons"? If you are referring to the Mark Darrah interview where he makes excuses for not making an expansion, that's hardly "dismiss[ing]" anything. Again, BioWare is not the authority on what they can and cannot do. The only valuable source for understanding why we cannot receive more expansions would be Electronic Arts, and I've already explained rather consistently why they are anti-expansions.

[Hiemoth]

Frankly the Expansion Pass just shows that CDPR is no different then any other company.  The fact that they actually took pot shots at other companies for doing passes before the game is even released and then make a pass for there own game which has not even been released yet says a lot.

 

Also this pass has actually made a lot of people upset to the point where they cancelled there pre-order of the Witcher 3 and are now fearing that CDPR is going to adopt other less than desirable tactics in the future.

 

I just had to comment on how much I agree with this. I don't think the Expansion Pass is a bad business and if they are really wanting to produce such larger DLCs, then it makes sense for them to bill for that. What made me shake my own head when I saw the announcement was how much shade they and their fan base had been throwing about the DLC policies and how CDPR was basically the players company because of all the awesome DLC they give. Not only that the fact that all the DLC they gave for free was really minor and how it makes my head hurt how they are advertising that free 16 pieces of DLC they are giving with TW3 when I look at the actual list they are providing.

 

The fact that they took those potshots and contributing to such a charged and in many ways destructive atmosphere on the subject, especially for Day 1 DLCs, them now doing this is just bizarre.

[JadeDragon]

You know what'd be hilarious? If TW3 flopped. Nothing against CDPR, but I almost want it to, just so the annoying fanboys will stop making a big deal about how CDPR and the Witcher are the Second Coming.

As a fan of games in general I do not wish any game to flop because that is bad for not just that company but the gaming business period. I would rather TW3 do extremely well not because I like it any more or less then dragon age games but because competition can be healthy. The better TW3 is or Elder Scrolls 6 is Bioware will step up there game and try to make DA4 even better. And thats how it should be, not wishing failure but for games to step up and try to out do each other. Or else Bioware will become complacent as does must people when they are sitting comfortable without something nipping at your heels. If Skyrim ended up being a total flop DA:I might not be the game it is today. Also all fanboys can come off annoying if there fans of a product your not as into as they are. In short I want the next games to try to be better then DA:I so DA4 can try to blow them out the water.

[Hiemoth]

What "actual reasons"? If you are referring to the Mark Darrah interview where he makes excuses for not making an expansion, that's hardly "dismiss[ing]" anything. Again, BioWare is not the authority on what they can and cannot do. The only valuable source for understanding why we cannot receive more expansions would be Electronic Arts, and I've already explained rather consistently why they are anti-expansions.

 

You do realize you have to actually provide some proof that Darrah was lying, right? Not sales numbers, as those do not tell anything about resources invested and expected return. Some actual evidence on the matter. Or do you assume that we should all just take you on your word that you are a perfectly functioning internet lie detector?

[LinksOcarina]

Just because you say I'm "wrong" doesn't make a true. Word of advice to you.

 

You would be ignorant of the difference then. Lets use ACIV:BF or ACU's gold edition (base game + season pass) as perfect examples. Both include one, small sort expansion, while the rest of the content is pointless fluff. This is Ubisoft's model for all of their season passes. I can't speak for Borderlands as I found that game to be incredibly boring. TW3's season pass, on the other hand, is offering 30 hours of content with a new area and stories to discover. This is much more akin to Shivering Isles, Tribunal, Bloodmoon, and Awakening, which were expansions.

 

Obviously expansions were before your time as you can only use current games as examples. This is part of the reason why CDPR is having difficulty explaining why their "expansion pass" is actually different because gamers, like yourself, cannot discern the difference. My advice? Play some older RPGs that actually have expansions. Then, you may understand what we are actually talking about here.

 

There is definitely a difference between JRPGs and RPGs... JRPGs tend to always be anime-influenced turn-based strategy RPGs with cheesy stories and stereotypical characters. The perfect example? Final Fantasy. RPGs, on the other hand, generally refer to the West with games going as far back as Ultima on PC. The two really have nothing in common.

 

 

 

Hahahaha.

 

You don't get it Revan, this is not a debate of any form, you are simply wrong in your assertion as it stands. 

 

Also, I have been playing games like Betrayal at Kronder and Wizardry for a long time now. Do not assume anything with me kid, you will lose that battle quickly, so I would suggest you watch what you say. 

 

Then again, if you are going to dismiss it so easily based on assertions you don't understand, I guess I can dismiss your claims even further with your own ignorance on the entire subject, which others have already pointed out probably better than me at this point. Also much calmer too since you didn't passive-aggressively insult them so far. 

 

Unfortunately, I can't say what I really want to right now because last time I did, I received a temp ban from this site. So fill in the blank on that one at the moment.

[Revan Reborn]

You do realize you have to actually provide some proof that Darrah was lying, right? Not sales numbers, as those do not tell anything about resources invested and expected return. Some actual evidence on the matter. Or do you assume that we should all just take you on your word that you are a perfectly functioning internet lie detector?

Game developers, and BioWare in particular, has a long history of lying directly to the fan base. It's part of their PR strategy. Again, BioWare has no voice on what kinds of content they can ultimately make. They receive funding from EA who mandates "this is what you get, now come up with something that fits in this framework." If you don't want to believe that BioWare has and can lie to you at any point, be a blind BioWare faithful...

 

You can believe whatever you want. That is your prerogative. The point of this thread is to show what the competition is doing and what BioWare may want to consider competing with in the future. We know BioWare cares about the competition. DAI was largely inspired by Skyrim and it's obvious. The same goes for TW3 being inspired by Skyrim, as CDPR even admitted it various times and made comparisons. Why should BioWare now not learn from CDPR, especially with respect to DLC policies?

 

BioWare has a rather shaky record with DLC. It's either hit or miss. Some are good. Some are bad. Overall, most fans enjoyed Awakening a lot, and it's because it was bigger and offered more value for their dollars.

[Giantdeathrobot]

How do we even know that CDPR's DLC will offer that much content? Because I've seen people say ''oh, you guys, it's totally different from Bioware's DLCs because it has content!''. And I'm just sitting here, thinking ''no, they said it has 30 hours of content. That doesn't mean it will have it.''. And it's not a question of them lying, either. Devs always tout the ''X number of hours in our game/DLC!'' line and, in my experience, it never works out unless you are ridiculously obssessive about doing everything in the game/DLC. Also, since the base game is supposed to have 200 hours of content, the DLC being 30 hours for half the price seems... rather like every other DLC price model, no? Nothing special to see here.

 

To me, this is a season pass. The exact same sort of season pass that are offered elsewhere. I don't see much wrong with that, because I trust CDPR and I think they will make a good product. But to say that it's anything else than a season pass disguised as an ''expansion pass'' is, I'm sorry, wilful blindness. It's buying into CDPR's marketing speak wholesale. I especially like how they sent messages saying ''oh, you guys, wait until the game is released before buying! Seriously, so that you can make an informed decisions!''. And then they still put it up for sale before the game is released, like any season pass in existence. I like CDPR as I already said, and I am going to buy TW3, but this is rather transparent PR speak. I know, I work in PR.

 

Exactly like the ''16 free DLCs'' line. This is PR at its best. Severalgames give away some stuff in patches, for instance Rome 2 Total War gave away some factions while others were paid DLC. Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor released free skin packs. Bioware has multiplayer DLC (ME3 had loads of it) and the EC, which was a special occasion but still free. Inquisition will have the Black Emporium in May, also free DLC, and they gave away the tavern songtracks not too long ago due to popular demand. Yet unlike CDPR, they (and their fans, more importantly) don't feel the need to tout the free stuff as if God Himself was coming down from heaven to rain unending prosperity on the downtrodden masses. I'm not saying it's bad thing, free stuff is always nice, but let's not think CDPR is shooting themselves in the foot for the gamer's sake. This going to be outfits and hairstyles, nothing to write home about.

 

30 hours of content is also rather standard for good season passes. I easily got more than that for my Borderlands 2 season pass. So it doesn't magically become an expansion because it crosses a certain arbitrary treshold of hours.

[Revan Reborn]

Hahahaha.

 

You don't get it Revan, this is not a debate of any form, you are simply wrong in your assertion as it stands. 

 

Also, I have been playing games like Betrayal at Kronder and Wizardry for a long time now. Do not assume anything with me kid, you will lose that battle quickly.

 

Then again, if you are going to dismiss it so easily based on assertions you don't understand, I guess I can dismiss your claims even further with your own ignorance on the entire subject, which others have already pointed out probably better than me at this point. Also much calmer too when they are not being passive-aggressively insulted at the same time. 

 

Unfortunately, I can't say what I really want to right now because last time I did, I received a temp ban from this site. So fill in the blank on that one at the moment.

A fact cannot be wrong. ACU's season pass is inferior and offers less content than TW3's expansion pass, and they both cost the same amount of money. Expansions actually were a thing and were very popular as many classic RPGs had them. If you cannot tell the difference between an expansion and DLC, that is merely your own shortcoming.

 

For a gamer who has obviously been playing games for a very long time, your lack of knowledge on the subject-matter is rather troubling. The fact you have been temporarily banned on a forum tells me enough about your character as a person. It also removes any inkling of credibility you had, which didn't appear to be much from the start.

 

If you are content with BioWare's current model, that's all you have to say. For me, I strive for BioWare to always do better and break their proverbial ceiling. I want to see BioWare's next gen interpretation of what kinds of post-release content should be in their games. Not lazy creations that add little value priced at $14.99. I won't stand for those kind of short-sighted and nefarious business practices.

[Hiemoth]

Game developers, and BioWare in particular, has a long history of lying directly to the fan base. It's part of their PR strategy. Again, BioWare has no voice on what kinds of content they can ultimately make. They receive funding from EA who mandates "this is what you get, now come up with something that fits in this framework." If you don't want to believe that BioWare has and can lie to you at any point, be a blind BioWare faithful...

 

You can believe whatever you want. That is your prerogative. The point of this thread is to show what the competition is doing and what BioWare may want to consider competing with in the future. We know BioWare cares about the competition. DAI was largely inspired by Skyrim and it's obvious. The same goes for TW3 being inspired by Skyrim, as CDPR even admitted it various times and made comparisons. Why should BioWare now not learn from CDPR, especially with respect to DLC policies?

 

BioWare has a rather shaky record with DLC. It's either hit or miss. Some are good. Some are bad. Overall, most fans enjoyed Awakening a lot, and it's because it was bigger and offered more value for their dollars.

 

First of all, the assertion on Bioware having a shaky record with DLC is utterly subjective. I've enjoyed all their storybased ME DLC as well as all the DA2 DLCs, which are examples of Bioware current approach to DLC.

 

Second, what exactly is the thing that they should learn from CDPR concerning DLC policies, as the CDPR is now charging for releasing DLC that is comparable in content to Bioware's story DLCs?

 

Third, care to provide the extensive list of lies from Bioware that gives you the holy right of condemning them of lying whenever they say you don't agree with?

[Heimdall]

I'm pointing out CDPR's DLC model as something BioWare could take cues from, in other words learn and figure out ways of competing with. I never stated "hey BioWare, copy CDPR because they are better." That's essentially what some posters are suggesting and it's quite detrimental to the original OP.

And it's a bit of a ridiculous stance to take when we don't even know if CDRP's model will be successful.
 

Again, I'll say it one last time. Play some expansions from older RPGs. If you don't know what it is, I won't bother telling you for the twentieth time. Many people, like yourself, are confused by the difference. That's part of the reason CDPR is getting heat for their "expansion pass" and why many seem to tolerate DLC these days, even though people hated DLC only ten years ago...
 
JoH isn't an expansion, for one, because BioWare has said it is not. Secondly, the size and scope of JoH compared to DAA are entirely different. Again, I'm not disputing that JoH isn't a bigger DLC, but it's not an expansion.

You haven't told me what it is the first time yet, not in a way that meaningfully distinguishes it from other content packs. I've played expansions, Revan, don't mistake my question for a sign of ignorance. What I'm questioning is the usefulness and meaningfulness of the distinction in the modern gaming industry.

Dragonborn's dev's didn't call it an expansion either, but that didn't stop you from classifying it as such.

[Phoe77]

Game developers, and BioWare in particular, has a long history of lying directly to the fan base. It's part of their PR strategy. Again, BioWare has no voice on what kinds of content they can ultimately make. They receive funding from EA who mandates "this is what you get, now come up with something that fits in this framework." If you don't want to believe that BioWare has and can lie to you at any point, be a blind BioWare faithful...

 

You're missing the point entirely.  No one is saying that it's impossible for people at Bioware to lie.  They're saying that there's no evidence to suggest that they're lying in this specific instance.  That's not being a blind fanboy, it's employing basic reasoning skills. 

 

I also enjoy all the Bioware DLC I've purchased for both DA2 and the ME series (though I can take or leave Bringing Down the Sky).  I also have played all of them more often than I've played Awakening.  Part of that is because they're more flexible.  Awakening's size alone makes it more daunting for me, even ignoring the fact that I don't think it's anything to write home about.  I can enjoy a smaller DLC like Legacy in an afternoon whereas I have to devote multiple days to an Awakening style expansion.

[Revan Reborn]

How do we even know that CDPR's DLC will offer that much content? Because I've seen people say ''oh, you guys, it's totally different from Bioware's DLCs because it has content!''. And I'm just sitting here, thinking ''no, they said it has 30 hours of content. That doesn't mean it will have it.''. And it's not a question of them lying, either. Devs always tout the ''X number of hours in our game/DLC!'' line and, in my experience, it never works out unless you are ridiculously obssessive about doing everything in the game/DLC. Also, since the base game is supposed to have 200 hours of content, the DLC being 30 hours for half the price seems... rather like every other DLC price model, no? Nothing special to see here.

 

To me, this is a season pass. The exact same sort of season pass that are offered elsewhere. I don't see much wrong with that, because I trust CDPR and I think they will make a good product. But to say that it's anything else than a season pass disguised as an ''expansion pass'' is, I'm sorry, wilful blindness. It's buying into CDPR's marketing speak wholesale. I especially like how they sent messages saying ''oh, you guys, wait until the game is released before buying! Seriously, so that you can make an informed decisions!''. And then they still put it up for sale before the game is released, like any season pass in existence. I like CDPR as I already said, and I am going to buy TW3, but this is rather transparent PR speak. I know, I work in PR.

 

Exactly like the ''16 free DLCs'' line. This is PR at its best. Severalgames give away some stuff in patches, for instance Rome 2 Total War gave away some factions while others were paid DLC. Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor released free skin packs. Bioware has multiplayer DLC (ME3 had loads of it) and the EC, which was a special occasion but still free. Inquisition will have the Black Emporium in May, also free DLC, and they gave away the tavern songtracks not too long ago due to popular demand. Yet unlike CDPR, they (and their fans, more importantly) don't feel the need to tout the free stuff as if God Himself was coming down from heaven to rain unending prosperity on the downtrodden masses. I'm not saying it's bad thing, free stuff is always nice, but let's not think CDPR is shooting themselves in the foot for the gamer's sake. This going to be outfits and hairstyles, nothing to write home about.

 

30 hours of content is also rather standard for good season passes. I easily got more than that for my Borderlands 2 season pass. So it doesn't magically become an expansion because it crosses a certain arbitrary treshold of hours.

The base game is only supposed to have 100 hours of content. 50 will come from the main story. The only 50 will come from side quests and other activities. If you are going to make an argument about what CDPR isn't doing, you should at least make sure the assertions you are making are accurate. 30 hours of additional content in the expansion pass is almost a third of the base game's content. That's incredibly impressive.

 

Again, like others, you show your ignorance of what a "season pass" is. Look at Assassin's Creed. Watch_Dogs. Batman: Arkham Origins. Dragon Ball Xenoverse. They all have very similar season passes in which the developer typically adds one story expansion, which is very brief. Then they may add another character, new weapons or vehicles, etc. TW3's expansion pass is adding two large story expansions. This means an entirely new story centered around the protagonist. The second, longer expansion is 20 hours long and will take place in a all new environment. This isn't just some new outfits and fluff. That is what the 16 free DLC updates will be that TW3 will receive.

 

Just to correct you, the 16 free DLC updates aren't just hair styles and outfits. We already know they are adding in quite a few quests as well, so it's not entirely fluff either. Again, I have never seen any season pass offer the kinds of content TW3 expansion pass is offering. I never bought the season pass for Borderlands 2 as the game was incredibly boring. Given that the main experience is based on grouping with friends to aimlessly go around and shoot things, I'm skeptical of how much content that season pass actually added.

 

Either way, be critical and hate on CDPR's DLC model all you want. I merely want BioWare to pay attention and take note.

[X Equestris]

Game developers, and BioWare in particular, has a long history of lying directly to the fan base. It's part of their PR strategy. Again, BioWare has no voice on what kinds of content they can ultimately make. They receive funding from EA who mandates "this is what you get, now come up with something that fits in this framework." If you don't want to believe that BioWare has and can lie to you at any point, be a blind BioWare faithful...
 
You can believe whatever you want. That is your prerogative. The point of this thread is to show what the competition is doing and what BioWare may want to consider competing with in the future. We know BioWare cares about the competition. DAI was largely inspired by Skyrim and it's obvious. The same goes for TW3 being inspired by Skyrim, as CDPR even admitted it various times and made comparisons. Why should BioWare now not learn from CDPR, especially with respect to DLC policies?
 
BioWare has a rather shaky record with DLC. It's either hit or miss. Some are good. Some are bad. Overall, most fans enjoyed Awakening a lot, and it's because it was bigger and offered more value for their dollars.

How about you give some specific examples of these lies that so discredit what Darrah said. Or are you going to sit here and just keep bleating the same vague general statements that you have since the beginning?

[LinksOcarina]

How about you give some specific examples of these lies that so discredit what Darrah said. Or are you going to sit here and just keep bleating the same vague general statements that you have since the beginning?

 

You're missing the point entirely.  No one is saying that it's impossible for people at Bioware to lie.  They're saying that there's no evidence to suggest that they're lying in this specific instance.  That's not being a blind fanboy, it's employing basic reasoning skills. 

 

I also enjoy all the Bioware DLC I've purchased for both DA2 and the ME series (though I can take or leave Bringing Down the Sky).  I also have played all of them more often than I've played Awakening.  Part of that is because they're more flexible.  Awakening's size alone makes it more daunting for me, even ignoring the fact that I don't think it's anything to write home about.  I can enjoy a smaller DLC like Legacy in an afternoon whereas I have to devote multiple days to an Awakening style expansion.

 

 

 

Careful, he will believe you factually have no idea what you are talking about and passive-agressively insult you for your lack of "knowledge" on things.

 

Which has been the M.O for all of the points thus far which have been challenged. So really this thread is pointless in the end since it's a circular argument that will go nowhere.

 

You know, ignore any form of logic involved over assumptions. That doesn't matter at all of course when it comes to passionate arguments or "suggestions" a company should take. 

[Revan Reborn]

First of all, the assertion on Bioware having a shaky record with DLC is utterly subjective. I've enjoyed all their storybased ME DLC as well as all the DA2 DLCs, which are examples of Bioware current approach to DLC.

 

Second, what exactly is the thing that they should learn from CDPR concerning DLC policies, as the CDPR is now charging for releasing DLC that is comparable in content to Bioware's story DLCs?

 

Third, care to provide the extensive list of lies from Bioware that gives you the holy right of condemning them of lying whenever they say you don't agree with?

I'm glad you enjoyed all of BioWare's DLC. You would not be the norm. I've already established Shadow Broker and Citadel were the most popular while the others were hit or miss. Quite a few actually didn't like Arrival because it had direct implications to the beginning of ME3 and you had to pay for it.

 

That's a rather big assumption you are making there. You have no evidence to support that the "DLC" CDPR is release is "comparable in content to BioWare's story DLCs." On the contrary, it's likely CDPR's expansion pass will be superior. That might be a somewhat more legitimate argument with the first expansion, but the second expansion is going to be twice the size in terms of project hours. Both the expansions together are only $24.99, while BioWare's one DLC is $14.99. Which means you are getting more bang for your buck with CDPR's expansion pass and more content to top it off. That's not even including the 16 DLC updates that will include more outfits, hair styles, quests, and more.

 

Giving you an extensive list of lies would be too much effort. I'll do better than that. Here is a video of BioWare's guild summit three years ago for SWTOR. Half of what they claim would happen in the game never did. Enjoy: https://www.youtube....60542CBEE892F02

[X Equestris]

I'm glad you enjoyed all of BioWare's DLC. You would not be the norm. I've already established Shadow Broker and Citadel were the most popular while the others were hit or miss. Quite a few actually didn't like Arrival because it had direct implications to the beginning of ME3 and you had to pay for it.
 
That's a rather big assumption you are making there. You have no evidence to support that the "DLC" CDPR is release is "comparable in content to BioWare's story DLCs." On the contrary, it's likely CDPR's expansion pass will be superior. That might be a somewhat more legitimate argument with the first expansion, but the second expansion is going to be twice the size in terms of project hours. Both the expansions together are only $24.99, while BioWare's one DLC is $14.99. Which means you are getting more bang for your buck with CDPR's expansion pass and more content to top it off. That's not even including the 16 DLC updates that will include more outfits, hair styles, quests, and more.
 
Giving you an extensive list of lies would be too much effort. I'll do better than that. Here is a video of BioWare's guild summit three years ago for SWTOR. Half of what they claim would happen in the game never did. Enjoy. Note, this is one of several videos at the guild summit conference:

And that video has nothing to do with the DA team. Try harder. And of course giving a list of actual relevant statements is too hard for you. That's rather convenient.

[wolfhowwl]

Anyways regarding the topic I am not sure why you would want to encourage the use of Season Passes at all.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The base game is only supposed to have 100 hours of content. 50 will come from the main story. The only 50 will come from side quests and other activities. If you are going to make an argument about what CDPR isn't doing, you should at least make sure the assertions you are making are accurate. 30 hours of additional content in the expansion pass is almost a third of the base game's content. That's incredibly impressive.

 

Again, like others, you show your ignorance of what a "season pass" is. Look at Assassin's Creed. Watch_Dogs. Batman: Arkham Origins. Dragon Ball Xenoverse. They all have very similar season passes in which the developer typically adds one story expansion, which is very brief. Then they may add another character, new weapons or vehicles, etc. TW3's expansion pass is adding two large story expansions. This means an entirely new story centered around the protagonist. The second, longer expansion is 20 hours long and will take place in a all new environment. This isn't just some new outfits and fluff. That is what the 16 free DLC updates will be that TW3 will receive.

 

Just to correct you, the 16 free DLC updates aren't just hair styles and outfits. We already know they are adding in quite a few quests as well, so it's not entirely fluff either. Again, I have never seen any season pass offer the kinds of content TW3 expansion pass is offering. I never bought the season pass for Borderlands 2 as the game was incredibly boring. Given that the main experience is based on grouping with friends to aimlessly go around and shoot things, I'm skeptical of how much content that season pass actually added.

 

Either way, be critical and hate on CDPR's DLC model all you want. I merely want BioWare to pay attention and take note.

 

I saw 200 hours touted by the fans, but that's a detail. It's still less than half the base game's content for half the price. If CD Projekt's numbers are true, which as I said, is not too likely.

 

You're not debating in good faith. You give me examples, but when I give a counter-example you tell me ''oh the game was boring, so it doesn't count''. Yes it does. The point is that season passes are bundles of DLCs, nothing else. The quality of said DLCs vary wildly, but you know what? Expansion quality varied wildly in ye goode old days too. Throne of Bhaal was a decent expansion, but I don't see anyone lining up to praise Tales of the Sword Coast.

 

Other examples of season passes with meaty DLCs: Dark Souls 2, Bioshock Infinite, Both of them had at least two big story DLCs. I also heard that the passes for Alien: Isolation, Shadow of Mordor and Metro Last Light were quite good, albeit I haven't played them So no, whatever crap Ubisoft is shoveling is not the standard for what a good season pass is.

 

A season pass is a DLC bundle sold before release. What CDPR is offering, is a DLC bundle sold before release. No more, no less. Call it an expansion if it makes you feel better, I care not. Perhaps it will have better value than most season passes, in fact I think it will actually have it. But it is no less a season pass. And it is not really something Bioware should take notes on if you ask me.

[Precursor Meta]

No one should try be like someone else. The Dragon age team should be themselves and figure out what would be best for them.

[Revan Reborn]

And that video has nothing to do with the DA team. Try harder. And of course giving a list of actual relevant statements is too hard for you. That's rather convenient.

I don't have to "try harder." I gave you one very easy and accessible example of plenty of lies BioWare has made. It doesn't matter if it's BioWare Edmonton, BioWare Montreal, or BioWare Austin. They are all under the same leadership branch and abide by the same rules. Not to mention, all three teams actively help and assist the other studios on their games in various ways. Either way, continue to be blind if you must. I will not indulge you any further.

 

Anyways regarding the topic I am not sure why you would want to encourage the use of Season Passes at all.

I'm not encouraging season passes. I'm encouraging expansions. I want a return to massive experiences such as Tribunal, Bloodmoon, Shivering Isles, and Awakening. I want more than ten hours of content valued at a reasonable price. I do not want to pay $14.99 for a few hours of entertainment, which was most of the Mass Effect DLCs, and only a few were actually really good.

[Phoe77]

I'm glad you enjoyed all of BioWare's DLC. You would not be the norm. I've already established Shadow Broker and Citadel were the most popular while the others were hit or miss. Quite a few actually didn't like Arrival because it had direct implications to the beginning of ME3 and you had to pay for it.

 

Where and how did you establish that?  Believing it really hard while you're typing it doesn't make it true, so some sort of meaningful evidence would be nice

[Revan Reborn]

I saw 200 hours touted by the fans, but that's a detail. It's still less than half the base game's content for half the price. If CD Projekt's numbers are true, which as I said, is not too likely.

 

You're not debating in good faith. You give me examples, but when I give a counter-example you tell me ''oh the game was boring, so it doesn't count''. Yes it does. The point is that season passes are bundles of DLCs, nothing else. The quality of said DLCs vary wildly, but you know what? Expansion quality varied wildly in ye goode old days too. Throne of Bhaal was a decent expansion, but I don't see anyone lining up to praise Tales of the Sword Coast.

 

Other examples of season passes with meaty DLCs: Dark Souls 2, Bioshock Infinite, Both of them had at least two big story DLCs. I also heard that the passes for Alien: Isolation, Shadow of Mordor and Metro Last Light were quite good, albeit I haven't played them So no, whatever crap Ubisoft is shoveling is not the standard for what a good season pass is.

 

A season pass is a DLC bundle sold before release. What CDPR is offering, is a DLC bundle sold before release. No more, no less. Call it an expansion if it makes you feel better, I care not. Perhaps it will have better value than most season passes, in fact I think it will actually have it. But it is no less a season pass. And it is not really something Bioware should take notes on if you ask me.

BioWare stated DAI was going to be approximately 150 hours of content, which I'd argue is an overestimation. Most of their "content" is just exploring empty environments and clicking on collectibles. $24.99 is the standard price for a season pass, and no other season pass on the market offers 30 hours of content.

 

I'm not discrediting Borderlands 2 at all. I'm merely skeptical because all you do in the game is run around with friends collecting randomized weapons and shooting things. Hence, how much "content" is there really? Again, I don't have the season pass so I cannot say for sure one way or the other.

 

Bioshock Infinite is a linear mediocre shooter on-rails with some thriller elements. Both parts of the Rapture DLC don't even come close to 30 hours of content. I don't have Dark Souls 2 so I can't speak on it. I believe Shadow of Mordor only had one story expansion, and I doubt it was 10 hours long as that game was actually rather brief. Metro Last Light is similar to Bioshock Infinite in that it's a linear shooter (actually very good and not mediocre) with some thriller elements. The DLC added some extra missions and you could play from different perspectives. It wasn't anything substantial in terms of what CDPR is suggesting.

 

Ubisoft is one of the big three... It may release more games than any of the other publishers. It's season pass is certainly a part of the equation and what they do is largely a standard for what many developers do with season passes.

 

Again, this has little to do with the season pass. I want BioWare to take note of the "expansion." The massive experiences which require 10+ hours that add plenty of new activities. I don't want just another quick episode of Shepard and friends. This is the distinction BioWare needs to see. That is why this thread is here.

[X Equestris]

I don't have to "try harder." I gave you one very easy and accessible example of plenty of lies BioWare has made. It doesn't matter if it's BioWare Edmonton, BioWare Montreal, or BioWare Austin. They are all under the same leadership branch and abide by the same rules. Not to mention, all three teams actively help and assist the other studios on their games in various ways. Either way, continue to be blind if you must. I will not indulge you any further.

One example doesn't mean anything, especially as it has nothing to do with Darrah. It's like saying one American lied to you once, therefore all Americans are liars. It's ridiculous. And when you can't provide the proof we ask of you, you decide to ignore us. You've clearly lost this debate, you just don't want to admit it.

[Revan Reborn]

One example doesn't mean anything, especially as it has nothing to do with Darrah. It's like saying one American lied to you once, therefore all Americans are liars. It's ridiculous. And when you can't provide the proof we ask of you, you decide to ignore us. You've clearly lost this debate, you just don't want to admit it.

I gave you multiple hours of footage, of which much of what is said are lies. SWTOR is the most ambitious game BioWare ever made and probably one of the most infamous ones they'll ever make. That is more than "one example." Feel free to use your inappropriate analogies that are in no way relevant to the point you are trying to make. This is not a debate. This is you trying to derail a thread you happen to not agree with. It's probably best you move on if you are content with the current approach BioWare has to DLC.