53 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

you  also have higher armor (so you can tank out a bit).

 

Nope. Every rogue I've ever made had been able to wear massive-weight dragonbone armor... With a bit of help from attribute increasing equipment. I've only recently started using actual light armor on my rogues on recent playthroughs for roleplaying purposes, since being all sneaky and stealthy while wearing massive plate armor was a bit... Ridiculous? I could have worn massive armor if I wanted to last rogue playthrough, but merely chose not to.

 

Now the real point you should make is that they can wear heavy armor BETTER. They get bonuses about armor fatigue, so they have far less fatigue wearing heavy armor than rogues do, to the point of the difference between a rogue and warriors fatigue in the same armor being nearly 25% more fatigue on the rogue. Warriors can wear it and suffer far less penalty, but rogues can still wear it. Strength rogues can do pretty darn well.

[andy6915]

Also, topic creator, focus on cunning if you want damage. Though I've mostly done strength rogues, cunning rogues are honestly better at killing. Someone once did the math about which one truly has a higher damage per second between strength-rogues and cunning-rogues, and the cunning rogue won. If you want to do a strength one for the armor, fine. But I'm just telling you that cunning is a very import stat for rogues, and there is a talent they get that lets them use their cunning stat as their attack and damage stat instead of strength.

 

Decide early on if you want to wear lighter armor and go with mostly cunning and kill faster and be killed faster, or wear heavier armor and go with mostly strength and kill slower but be killed slower. Durability or damage is what the choice comes down to.

[jedidotflow]

DAO: Human sword and shield warrior.

DA2: Never finished it (made a F!Hawke rogue via Keep)

DAI: Human mage

[andy6915]

One final thing, if you're a new player. Don't give the second set of drake skills to the armor merchant UNTIL YOU'VE BOUGHT the felon's coat and Ewon the Great's armor (which someone completes the set bonus on Wade's Superior Heavy Dragonscale armor). Giving the second set makes you lose access to the shop, so you can't buy them if you give him the scales first. And those armors are only available after 3 of the 5 treaty quests are done. And make sure to pay extra for both drake armors he makes, so the 3rd armor he makes of the dragonbone is the superior version and not the basic one.

 

If money is a problem that keeps you from buying those armors before giving him the scales, use the double sale exploit. Put an expensive item in junk, and go to your junk section and press both the sell and "sell all junk" button at NEARLY BUT NOT EXACTLY the same time (one slightly before the other). Done right, you'll sell the item twice, then you can use the buyback section to buy it again once. So for example, you can sell something worth 4 gold for 8 and then buy it back for 4 to repeat the process as much as you want. This is also able to be done in Dragon Age 2. Exploit the ever loving hell out of it if you want... I do. And the armor seller at soldier's peak lets you very easily upgrade item tiers by selling him gear and just reopening his shop window over and over until the tier is where you want. Other shops let you do this, but they require a reload to do it. He merely needs you to exit out of the shop window and go right back into it, no reload needed. Nice way of changing a good armor you like from silverlite to dragonbone, for example.

[Panda]

I have been having most fun with these:

 

- DAO: Two-handed Warrior- good dmg and pretty good tank as well.

- DA2: Duel-dagger rogue- awesome dmg, even beats Arishok with no trouble on hard. And the jumping animation when switching enemy is nice

- DAI: I haven't still played many classes and weapons so not completely sure which one is best, but Knight-Enchanter mage seems to be strong

[(Disgusted noise.)]

DAO: Rogue

DA2: Rogue

DAI: Rogue

 

Because rogues are inherently cool.

[Andres Hendrix]

Nope. Every rogue I've ever made had been able to wear massive-weight dragonbone armor... With a bit of help from attribute increasing equipment. I've only recently started using actual light armor on my rogues on recent playthroughs for roleplaying purposes, since being all sneaky and stealthy while wearing massive plate armor was a bit... Ridiculous? I could have worn massive armor if I wanted to last rogue playthrough, but merely chose not to.

 

Now the real point you should make is that they can wear heavy armor BETTER. They get bonuses about armor fatigue, so they have far less fatigue wearing heavy armor than rogues do, to the point of the difference between a rogue and warriors fatigue in the same armor being nearly 25% more fatigue on the rogue. Warriors can wear it and suffer far less penalty, but rogues can still wear it. Strength rogues can do pretty darn well.

Obviously warriors rely on an armor rating (taking damage, as tanks do), and rogues rely on the defense rating (dodging attacks). To put a rogue in massive armor means that you have to increase their strength stat when you should be putting those points into cunning and dexterity (a rogue's primary modifiers). In terms of massive armor, you would have to use modded items for the attributes, or at the bare minimum have the Keep DLC with the Warden Commander armor set. You are missing out on stamina for momentum and other skills... "Pretty darn well" is basically, here is an exhausted pseudo-warrior who should be backstabbing, but instead is proclaiming 'come stab me in the face, I have forgone the Felon's Coat, and my primary strengths that I can do exceedingly well.' It's a waste to put a rogue in massive...

[andy6915]

Obviously warriors rely on an armor rating (taking damage, as tanks do), and rogues rely on the defense rating (dodging attacks). To put a rogue in massive armor means that you have to increase their strength stat when you should be putting those points into cunning and dexterity (a rogue's primary modifiers). In terms of massive armor, you would have to use modded items for the attributes, or at the bare minimum have the Keep DLC with the Warden Commander armor set. You are missing out on stamina for momentum and other skills... "Pretty darn well" is basically, here is an exhausted pseudo-warrior who should be backstabbing, but instead is proclaiming 'come stab me in the face, I have forgone the Felon's Coat, and my primary strengths that I can do exceedingly well.' It's a waste to put a rogue in massive...

 

You don't know how strength rogues work, do you? They put as many points into dexterity as a cunning rogue, the stat that they focus less on is cunning. Their cunning stat stays lower while they pump into strength. So they have both the very high defense ON TOP of the very high armor rating, the best of both worlds. This makes them nigh unkillable once you have combat stealth. They definitely kill slower though, their damage per second is definitely inferior. You're right, they are a pseudo warrior... But dual wield warriors are pseudo rogues.

 

Don't talk to me like I'm an idiot, I've done so many rogue playthroughs that it isn't even funny. I've done both cunning and strength rogues before, I have experience with both. And no, my massive armor is Cailan's armor. 10% chance to dodge attacks, big critical boost from Cailan's gauntlets since they increase backstab damage, amazing health regen. Hell, the backstab bonus alone makes that armor almost seem designed for  rogues more than it is warriors. My last rogue had on Cailan's greaves and guantlets for the dodge and backstab bonuses along with the felon's coat since I already said I got sick of my rogues being in full platemail (the silliness of wearing the felons coat with golden boots and gauntlets notwithstanding...) And no, their stamina is fine since strength rogues tend to be almost exclusively auto attackers and don't need much stamina anyway. Besides, that's what high stamina accessories are for. You need to do a proper strength rogue before you go bashing them, they do better than you think.

[andy6915]

Did some edits, in case they were missed.

[Patchwork]

For me mage is best for all the games - DAO gives you a great range of spells and you can really understand why magic is so feared in Thedas. DA2 not so much choice with the spells but the varied casting animations make it a fun class to play. In DAI a mage connects well to the overall story.

 

But favouritism aside I think rogue works well given DAO's slow combat and pickpocketing the npcs that annoy you is a nice bit of petty revenge. Being a mage in DA2 can be really awkward within the setting so any other class but that. In DAI female elf mage gives you the most out of the story and gameplay.  

 

When playing a KE I've found that if I get bored of spirit blade it's easy enough to switch to ranged combat for a bit especially if your heavily specced into one elemental tree.  

[Andres Hendrix]

You don't know how strength rogues work, do you? They put as many points into dexterity as a cunning rogue, the stat that they focus less on is cunning. Their cunning stat stays lower while they pump into strength. So they have both the very high defense ON TOP of the very high armor rating, the best of both worlds. This makes them nigh unkillable once you have combat stealth. They definitely kill slower though, their damage per second is definitely inferior. You're right, they are a pseudo warrior... But dual wield warriors are pseudo rogues.

 

Don't talk to me like I'm an idiot, I've done so many rogue playthroughs that it isn't even funny. I've done both cunning and strength rogues before, I have experience with both. And no, my massive armor is Cailan's armor. 10% chance to dodge attacks, big critical boost from Cailan's gauntlets since they increase backstab damage, amazing health regen. Hell, the backstab bonus alone makes that armor almost seem designed for  rogues more than it is warriors. My last rogue had on Cailan's greaves and guantlets for the dodge and backstab bonuses along with the felon's coat since I already said I got sick of my rogues being in full platemail (the silliness of wearing the felons coat with golden boots and gauntlets notwithstanding...) And no, their stamina is fine since strength rogues tend to be almost exclusively auto attackers and don't need much stamina anyway. Besides, that's what high stamina accessories are for. You need to do a proper strength rogue before you go bashing them, they do better than you think.

The point that you have missed, is that you make a build that does not in fact utilize the strengths of the rouge. You diminish those strengths basically for aesthetics. You are welcome to your "pretty well"; I'm not denying that you are an expert at it. A duel wielding warrior is not a pseudo-rogue, especially if said warrior is using two swords or a sword and an axe (something a rouge cannot do). Moreover, you already admit that your so called strength rogue is a pseudo warrior. You are contradicting categories, which you have already agreed to. 

[andy6915]

The point that you have missed, is that you make a build that does not in fact utilize the strengths of the rouge. You diminish those strengths basically for aesthetics. You are welcome to your "pretty well"; I'm not denying that you are an expert at it. A duel wielding warrior is not a pseudo-rogue, especially if said warrior is using two swords or a sword and an axe (something a rouge cannot do). Moreover, you already admit that your so called strength rogue is a pseudo warrior. You are contradicting categories, which you have already agreed to. 

 

And you missed the point. Sometimes it's not bad to break away from the typical strengths of your class. You obviously missed the "essentially unkillable" part that I mentioned strength rogues could be... I fail to see how a super durable rogue with slightly lower DPS is the terrible build you're making it out to be.

 

A dual wield warrior is a pseudo rogue... Period. I've done several, trust me on this. They're just a crappier version of the rogue fighting style, unable to match their capability thanks to missing all the rogue talents that mesh so perfectly with dual wielding. They're just trying to do the role of a dual wield rogue without actually having the capability to do so. They're fun, they can still be very viable, but they can NEVER match rogues at that fighting style's capability. What do they have going for them that a dual wield rogue doesn't? Nothing, absolutely nothing. What do dual wield rogues have over dual wield warriors? Everything. Dual wield warriors aren't just rogue-imitations? My ass. And this is coming from someone who loves dual wield warriors.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

The moment when you realize that you were only one who was archer trough all three series...lel

[Gervaise]

The only class I didn't enjoy playing in either DAO or DA2 was a warrior.  

 

For DAO I'd recommend playing as a dual wielding rogue, specialising in assassin and ranger (gets you extra animal companion in battle); or as a mage arcane warrior/spirit healer, since that allows you to use heavy armour on your mage and mass heal/resurrect the party if you get into difficulties.  I'd go with either the human noble or city elf origin for the rogue.

 

For DA2 again I'd go with a rogue (shadow assassin) or mage (force mage/spirit healer - since I don't do blood magic).    I had a great deal of fun playing as a rogue.

 

Currently I have played through DAI as both a mage, Knight Enchanter or Rift Mage (prefer KE), and rogue hunter.    I have tried doing dual wielder but find it clunky compared with previous games so have perfected my assassin hunter with his one shot take down of enemies from a distance.  

[KaiserShep]

In DA:O, I go strictly for the rogue. Part of this is that I greatly prefer the non-Circle backstories, particularly the human noble. In DA2, rogue again, because I think it's the most fun and I prefer Bethany to Carver. In DA:I, I'd say either the archer rogue (tempest or assassin) or mage (knight-enchanter or rift mage) are the most fun to play.

[Andres Hendrix]

And you missed the point. Sometimes it's not bad to break away from the typical strengths of your class. You obviously missed the "essentially unkillable" part that I mentioned strength rogues could be... I fail to see how a super durable rogue with slightly lower DPS is the terrible build you're making it out to be.

 

A dual wield warrior is a pseudo rogue... Period. I've done several, trust me on this. They're just a crappier version of the rogue fighting style, unable to match their capability thanks to missing all the rogue talents that mesh so perfectly with dual wielding. They're just trying to do the role of a dual wield rogue without actually having the capability to do so. They're fun, they can still be very viable, but they can NEVER match rogues at that fighting style's capability. What do they have going for them that a dual wield rogue doesn't? Nothing, absolutely nothing. What do dual wield rogues have over dual wield warriors? Everything. Dual wield warriors aren't just rogue-imitations? My ass. And this is coming from someone who loves dual wield warriors.

"A dual wield warrior is a pseudo rogue period." I'll just leave you with your anti-logic.

[animedreamer]

Mage is the only class worth playing in any of these games in my opinion, they always seem to have more impact on the whole story than any of the two remainder classes.

 

1.) In DAO, A mage warden is likely the only Warden that is a mage, as Duncan states the wardens only ever have one mage. So Duncan taking one likely means they were in need of a Warden Mage. Only a Mage Warden can enter the fade to save Conner. A Warden Mage has a bigger connection to the happenings in Broken Circle. A Warden mage is also connected to the poisoning of Arl Eamon via helping Jowan escape the tower. 

 

2.) In DA2, while Bethany is a much beloved character of mine. Mage Hawke would seem obviously more sympathetic to the mage situation in Kirkwall if not for 2 of his companions being mages but him/herself being a mage and the fact that their lives were shaped as outsiders on the run simply because they and their father/sister had magic, and thus be that much more driven to spark the Mage Rebellion. Though I suppose if you went with the Templars either of the other 2 classes would work as well since magic is the thing that seems to cause Hawke the most pain in his/her life.

 

3.) In DAI, being given a magical mark to do magic with seems like something a mage would better be able to understand and utilize, i mean it was intended for a mage to have in the first place albeit Solas, who in a case of bad judgement gave it to Corypheus, in turn lost it to the Inquisitor.

 

in all three mage is seen as a negative thing amongst the populous and by championing the right cause and saving the people you in my opinion help to show mages in a better light. Sure the Rogue or Fighter can become king or queen of a kingdom, or a paragon and thats all fine and good if the story ended there, but a mages story is more open ended, they actively have their freedoms revoked, still suffer under the chantry, there is just more resistance to mages making their way in the world and that leads to better stories than, "Fighter X appeared and saved the day and the people cheered." a mage would be seen like, "Some mage came along and fixed the problem that other mages caused, so we'll give them one more chance but they better watch it." the noose for magic is still their, magic as a whole is still seen as too dangerous and thus more tension for future stories remain.

 

then again thats just how i see it.

[Babelas]

I loved dual-wielding elf in Inquisition, mage in DA2 and mage in origins as well as sword and shield. 

[congokong]

@animedreamer

 

You present a case I've often felt for playing mages. I even made a thread once regarding how I believed Origins' story was meant to go, and that included being a mage.

 

http://forum.bioware...-happen-in-dao/

 

 

The whole "Grey Wardens only have one mage" thing confuses me though considering starting in DA2 with Janeka, and even more so in DA:I, that they have at least several mages.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well namely a Warden never said they only had one mage.

It was a circle mage who could have been a recruit who said that, so take it with a grain of salt considering if his story was legitimate he'd need to be speaking post calling.

So even if the info was legitimate at the time, it could be dreadfully out of fate.

[animedreamer]

Well namely a Warden never said they only had one mage.

It was a circle mage who could have been a recruit who said that, so take it with a grain of salt considering if his story was legitimate he'd need to be speaking post calling.

So even if the info was legitimate at the time, it could be dreadfully out of fate.

 

Or they just reconned it out, same with the ending boons,  specific character deaths, and so on. Remember whatever conflicts with the main BioWare storyline is dismissed via recon wand, for the sake of producing a better story.

[andy6915]

Well namely a Warden never said they only had one mage.

It was a circle mage who could have been a recruit who said that, so take it with a grain of salt considering if his story was legitimate he'd need to be speaking post calling.

So even if the info was legitimate at the time, it could be dreadfully out of fate.

 

And that circle mage was wrong. In soldiers peak you see a couple obvious mages, with robes and staffs and everything. And that isn't even couting Avernus. And that was all in the same castle at the same time. Wardens can and do have multiple mages at a time.

[Toasted Llama]

It has always been in my opinion that playing a mage (especially in inquistion) gives you expanded lore options. Therefore, my canon hero's are always mages.

 

Plus, I like the visuals of mages anyway. Nothing is better than explosions everwhere!

So basically...


Play a mage if you want your game to be directed by Micheal Bay.

[Master Warder Z_]

So basically...


Play a mage if you want your game to be directed by Micheal Bay.

Explosions! By Michael Bay!

[Riven326]

Origins: Sword and board waririor.

DA2: Mage.

DAI: Rogue.