430 réponses à ce sujet

[UHitMeInTheEar]

The only thing that made ME1 special was the story, characters and setting and so far those aspects are blowing me away in ME2.

The combat system, skill trees, looting and selling or omni gel-ling useless items constantly was in no way special, it was the same old stuff.



I did not mind these things terribly but i don't miss them now. I've done that, this is something new and it's a lot of fun.



And not to attack any one specifically but I really do love all that stat stuff but I think having a job where I do similar "statiscal" stuff all day kind of sucks the fun out of doing it when I get home. So yeah give me something that's fun and "brainless" (although I completely disagree with the brainless comments).

[UHitMeInTheEar]

My list of Positives with Mass Effect 2:

1. Lack of skill robustness and customization - game does number strategy for you!
2. All the characters act like they just drank a Mt. Dew (I think they were drinking mountain dew in that bar).
3. Stage complete screens are a relic from the Doom days. This is supposed to be an RPG series, not Army of Two which is why it's great you can just hit a button a couple times and skip right through it.
4. For that matter, Army of Two had about as much weapon customization which is still more then ME1!
5. The carry-over hardly matters, as most have mentioned since ME1 wasn't built to do that in the first place.
6. Cooling rods appearing for no reason whereas world-crushing firearms existed 2 years ago without them which is realistic in terms of technology, like how Vista was a massive step back from XP!
7. Space exploration quite possibly even more annoying than the Mako so that people who liked all the annoying stuff frome ME1 have something to do!
8. Slower storm (at least it sort of works outside of combat now) Yeah for the second part!
9. Subject Zero!  Is awesome.
10. Levels more linear than some titles in the FPS genre (basically like Eden Prime forever)  Yeah!
11. MORE UNSKIPPABLE MOVIES!  That are great!
12. Load screens in excess of elevators from ME 1!  Everyone who complained about those darn elevators will be happy!
13. Highly predictable storyline which is good because some people obviously can't handle change. 
14. Bioware trying to be funny, again and succeeding.
15. Lame story excuses for writing away previous squad members, as if they're somehow less available than your new prospects..ah okay you got me on this one...I'm hoping they built ME2 to be better when it moves to ME3.

...but see what I did there, i took all your negatives and made them positives because some times life gives you lemons and you can use those lemons to garnish alcoholic beverages as well as in many reciepes.  Did you know that you can grate the skins on lemons and use that too!?!  Such a useful fruit.

[Jorlen]

Lycid wrote...

Some of you have a bad case of Nostalgia. ME was a great game, but both the inventory system and the character development system were subpar by RPG standards. Getting spammed with a page of useless weapons after a big fight was SOO fun. Having to micromanage the guns for the entire SQUAD was SOO FUN, amirite?

Well, my main point is I would have rather them improve the inventory system and tweak the mako portion of the game instead of removing them alltogether.  I understand that a lot of people disliked the inventory and mako and for good reason, but for me it was part of the overall charm and gameplay that is Mass Effect.

The inventory could have simply been improved by making drops less frequent, yet more prominent.  The inventory management itself just needed more view / sort options and a little more love.  As for the planet roaming, why not simply build upon the feedback of the community and modify the existing system?  Tweak the mako driving physics, add more variety to planets.  Why not progress from the original path instead of changing it in its entirety?

But then again, I suppose from a project management point of view, it made more sense to just gut out the sore spots and leave them behind, it's just that I (and apparently many others) disagree with this direction.  Will it change anything by posting it on a gaming forum?  Probably not, but it feels good to know I'm not alone, at the very least.

On another front, I am amazed at what Bioware did in fact improve, such as the level design and engine performance.  I have never seen Unreal Engine 3 look so damn good, honestly.  In another life, I would have loved to have these remain along with the original, albeit tweaked mechanics of Mass Effect 1.

- Jorlen

[Kanye150]

I gotta try it out the 29, but, for now it looks like a big shooter (i love shooters!). Just a 1% of the players say is boring, lets hope not.

[Lolenas]

First of all, I'd like to say that the ME2 is an ok game in some ways, but lets have our first comparison.

ME1: RPG with some shooter elements
ME2: Shooter with very little rpg elements
That's the first flaw.
Mass Effect was great because it was a good sci-fi rpg that allowed you to build your character from nothing and go several different ways through their trees, and your squads. It also threw in some good shooter elements that made it even better. Absolutely LOVED the first game, played through it a few times with different classes, and/or different build of classes.

ME2's class trees have been so watered down a monkey could do them, not to mention that Ammo types were created into a power. Really Bioware? The class trees were awesome in the first one because if you were a sentinel, you and Kaidan would be able to do the same things. Makes sense considering you were both sentinels. It would've been fantastic if they kept that and given each squad member their own "unique ability" as well. Samara and Jack, both VERY powerful biotics, don't have the same types of skills at all. Make sense? Give them the same trees and allow you to customize which one gets which powers. THAT'S an rpg.

The level cap. Halved, and in order to level up, you have to complete your mission. No more leveling up while you're killing a group of bad guys.

Let's get onto inventory. Bioware has completely eliminated this huge aspect of an rpg game. WHY?! Getting that new weapon that's better than yours while you were out on some random planet killing biotics was fantastic! Or getting that new set of armor for Wrex that was so much better than his, wonderful. Yes, Going through it was time consuming, but a true rpger doesn't mind that 20 minutes at all. I loved it, gave me a way to get some extra money if needed and helped me determine who got the best items.
Now, none of your squad gets any armor at all, and you get a few small pieces that you have to purchase to get. Also, the amount of weapons you can now get in ME2 is disgusting. 2 pistols Bioware? Really?

Planet exploration. This has been replace by planet scanning. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy it when I need that extra 2000 Iridium for a damage upgrade, but to cut out the exploration completely? Again taking away from the RPG experience that us true Mass Effecters loved about it. Yes, sometimes the mako was a real pain, but others it was an asset that kept you alive if that Thresher Maw popped out of the ground. So improve on the flaws of it, don't eliminate it.

The Citadel? Once a sprawling space station that could take you 15 minutes to just run through, has been turned into a strip mall. The most prominent space station in the galaxy has been turned into a joke. Why? The presidium being only the ambassador's office is utter nonsense.

These are my, all my coworkers, and I'm sure every true RPGers opinions about this game. I don't care if you don't like it, go back to playing your CoD, I don't want you playing my type of game, you're ruining it.

Bioware, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give us back one of our favorite games.

[rockchild123]

I completely agree that the RPG elements are missing from this and I miss them already. Furthermore the guy who made the resource collecting system by tediously scanning planets should be locked in a small room with a large Krogan that is in heat. I would have taken a 32bit side scroller over this crap. Seriously boring! Sure ME1 you spent alot of time driving around in the lander but how about maybe a shuttle that you could fly around. It would have been faster and much more interesting. I think I liked that part about ME1 because it resemble more of a open world RPG when exploring a planet. Other than that....great game!

[JKoopman]

The only things I'll say in favor of the planet scanning in ME2 is that at least when you scan a planet it feels like you scanned a whole planet. In ME1 it was a lil odd that apparently all the resources of an entire world were contained in a small 5 km area on it's surface.



But yeah, the planet scanning mini-game is tedium incarnate...

[Valfrekr]

Nope, lovin' the game so far.

[tonnactus]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Exact same amount of weapon options as ME1 whoever used anything other than Specter gear VII and X is just trying to kid yourself.  Sure you used crap until then but how is that different, end game you have basically 1 choice of weapon.

Rosenkov materials were better then spectre gear VII...

[tonnactus]

skinned77 wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...
Exact same amount of weapon options as ME1 whoever used anything other than Specter gear VII and X is just trying to kid yourself.  Sure you used crap until then but how is that different, end game you have basically 1 choice of weapon.

So true! And after that, you were collecting nothing but omnigel.

So you only play a soldier,right??
No omnitools.No bioamps.

[jimmyjoefro]

brgillespie wrote...
No, Jimmy. That's incorrect. A small surviving band of Protheans did indeed manage to seal the Reapers away in dark space.

Sovereign was the Reaper's vanguard. The whole reason he went about and collected up the Geth and Saren was because when he sent out the signal for the Citadel to open the mass relay to dark space, the signal was blocked thanks to the efforts of a small team of Prothean scientists that managed to survive the Reaper onslaught that wiped their species out.

The built a mass relay that teleported them to the Citadel where they uploaded a program or somesuch that prevented the keepers from acting the eventual signal to open the relay and bring the Reapers back.

Sovereign was destroyed at the end of the first game without ever getting the chance to manually open the relay itself. The Reapers are still hibernating out in dark space.

As far as the old crew vs. new crew, it is tough to truly debate that without hitting upon any potential spoilers. Suffice it to say, I didn't think the reasons were copouts. Shepard had been dead for 2 years, man.

The Reapers already retreated back into Dark Space. The Protheans had nothing to do with that.  The only thing they did was delay their return by tweaking the keepers. 

The signal to the keepers was blocked because the Protheans changed the keepers.  Sovereign then had to assemble his army so that he could go to the Citadel and turn it on manually.  Like I said, the Protheans didn't seal anything anywhere, they just delayed their return.  That was the implication of the ending of the ME1.

Yes, the majority of the Reaper are hibernating in Dark Space, but you don't really believe they left one vanguard, do you?  Do you really think they couldn't find a way to continue this story?  No, I think EA pushed them into this.  EA bought Bioware with the intention of turning Mass Effect into a mass appealing, more-shooter-than-RPG, game.  EA is the a flagship example for how capitalism and money can completely ruin artistic integrity and quality storytelling. 

Two years is not enough time, IMO, for a crew to lose allegiance to the man that help them save the galaxy from certain extinction.  IMO, they all should still hold that allegiance and drop whatever it is they're doing to help him continue the fight.  They had to contrive lame stories to mask their choice to mold this game into a game that's meant to please 13 year old boys with no attention spans, that just want to shoot things and blow things up.  

Wrex was probably the only one that made any kind of sense, since he's apparently an old Krogan (it's hard to tell since they all look like sapient dinosaurs).

[sjeremy7777]

I agree with original poster. ME2 is an awesome FPS. It is not however a proper sequel in my mind. They so drastically changed everything that it barely resembles ME1. I will play through this game and enjoy the story arch, however I wont really care about the characters because i have no time vested in there development. Another thing that has been annoying me is where the hell is the chatter during game play, your teammates are like zombies who just follow along and occasionally shoot at the enemy. ME2 is also extremely linear compared to ME1.  ME2 just dosnt have the magic that ME1 had for me, I played through ME1 six times and loved it each time.  I honestly cant see myself playing through ME2 beyond the first time, which is sad for me.

Modifié par sjeremy7777, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:33 .

[Kohaku]

sjeremy7777 wrote...

I agree with original poster. ME2 is an awesome FPS. It is not however a proper sequel in my mind. They so drastically changed everything that it barely resembles ME1. I will play through this game and enjoy the story arch, however I wont really care about the characters because i have no time vested in there development. Another thing that has been annoying me is where the hell is the chatter during game play, your teammates are like zombies who just follow along and occasionally shoot at the enemy. ME2 is also extremely linear compared to ME1.  ME2 just dosnt have the magic that ME1 had for me, I played through ME1 six times and loved it each time.  I honestly cant see myself playing through ME2 beyond the first time, which is sad for me.

While in the first area I know I clicked on parts of the world and my companions would comment on it. I thought I heard Jacob and Miranda talking to each other in one of the dungeons and on the first planet. I could be mistaken though.

[Alphan_001]

Well this sucks and I wanted to buy ME 2 now I know this I wont buy it the removal of rpg elements broke my interest I hope they put it back in ME 3

[Alraiis]

Lolenas wrote...

First of all, I'd like to say that the ME2 is an ok game in some ways, but lets have our first comparison.

ME1: RPG with some shooter elements
ME2: Shooter with very little rpg elements
That's the first flaw.

Is an RPG defined by its mechanics--where success or failure is determined through pre-combat inventory
management, party building, careful skill allocation and development, and in-combat dice rolling rather than twitch reflexes, positioning, use of cover, and aim?

Or is an RPG defined by the nature of its storytelling, where you play a role? Despite the excellent and epic storylines of some games with RPG mechanics, I could not determine or develop who (for example) Cloud Strife was as a character the way I could with the Vault Dweller, the Nameless One, or Commander Shepard--I could only watch him speak his pre-scriped lines. The Final Fantasy series has excellent games---you might call them RPGs based on their mechanics, and I wouldn't based on the fact that the trajectory of their character development is immutable.

"RPG mechanics" are simply the mechanics most closely associated with RPGs--but they don't make an RPG an RPG, in my opinion---your assumption of the perspective of "all true RPGers" (and, indeed, your condescending classification of people who agree with you as "true RPGers") notwithstanding.

I'm not going to try to tell you your opinion is wrong, however---you have a very good reason to associate RPG mechanics with the definition of an RPG. You and I would simply use the term "RPG" to mean different things.

Personally, I think Mass Effect 2 has more RPG in it than Chrono Trigger.

(On a side note, I also think that with class-exlusive powers, unique squad talents that can become a bonus talent for Shepard, and power evolution at Rank 4, ME2 has far deeper skill customization than people give it credit for.)

Modifié par Alraiis, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:49 .

[rockchild123]

Soooo Linear......Soooooo long RPG. And thanks for the terminus armor where I cant remove the helment....jackasses. I spent all that time trying to get Sheppards eyes right too! Looked like a freaking mutant one second and a creepy oriental guy with a herion addiction the next. Take that Blackstorm and shove it up your a## BioWare and pull the trigger. "Pulling the right trigger for renegade on BioWare"

[rockchild123]

Alraiis wrote...

Lolenas wrote...

First of all, I'd like to say that the ME2 is an ok game in some ways, but lets have our first comparison.

ME1: RPG with some shooter elements
ME2: Shooter with very little rpg elements
That's the first flaw.

Is an RPG defined by its mechanics--where success or failure is determined through pre-combat inventory
management, party building, careful skill allocation and development, and in-combat dice rolling rather than twitch reflexes, positioning, use of cover, and aim?

Or is an RPG defined by the nature of its storytelling, where you play a role? Despite the excellent and epic storylines of some games with RPG mechanics, I could not determine or develop who (for example) Cloud Strife was as a character the way I could with the Vault Dweller, the Nameless One, or Commander Shepard--I could only watch him speak his pre-scriped lines. The Final Fantasy series has excellent games---you might call them RPGs based on their mechanics, and I wouldn't based on the fact that the trajectory of their character development is immutable.

"RPG mechanics" are simply the mechanics most closely associated with RPGs--but they don't make an RPG an RPG, in my opinion---your assumption of the perspective of "all true RPGers" (and, indeed, your condescending classification of people who agree with you as "true RPGers") notwithstanding.

I'm not going to try to tell you your opinion is wrong, however---you have a very good reason to associate RPG mechanics with the definition of an RPG. You and I would simply use the term "RPG" to mean different things.

Personally, I think Mass Effect 2 has more RPG in it than Chrono Trigger.

(On a side note, I also think that with class-exlusive powers, unique squad talents that can become a bonus talent for Shepard, and power evolution at Rank 4, ME2 has far deeper skill customization than people give it credit for.)

Mechanics may not "define" an RPG but it sure as hell matters whether or not someone wants to play a game.  So yes RPG today have alot to do with mechanics and loot and custumization and more freedom than a linear route and exploration etc....  Not just a left or right trigger pull so oooooooooo now I am a renenagde.  A mud puddle is deeper than appears but I still dont want to stand in the crap.

[Godzilla vs Xenu]

Nope.

[rockchild123]

Wait what was the orginal question? O yea right! No not bored just disappointed.

[Octsober]

I can find how the OP feels I kinda felt that the side quests from mass effect one had more life to them unlike the last minute side quests they have in two. Although BioWare did take the time to make the main story extremely beefy.

[rockchild123]

My junk is beefy doesnt mean everyone wants to play with it.

[rockchild123]

So your Geth proab no idea what I am talking about.

[averbalin]

To answer the question posed in the thread title - 8 hours in and no I am not bored yet. I will not engage in a long debate on the merits or flaws of the game as I see them because even if every other person in the world hated this game I would still enjoy the game warts and all.

[Anticitizen1]

Popstick wrote...

Half-Life 2 doesn't share every single characteristic from Half-Life 1. That sure didn't stop HL2 from becoming one of the great shooters of our time. If BW had left everything intact from ME 1 and only changed the story for ME 2, you'd be calling them lazy for not trying to fix or remove the many flaws from ME 1. Maybe if you want a more complete RPG for ME 3, you should start with constructive criticism.

Example: For ME 3, why not have both an ammo and a cool-down system. You can still eject the heatsink like in ME 2, but if you run out, you'll still be able to fire, but only briefly and in short bursts to prevent overheating.

Or, for ME 3, while the unique outfits were a decent idea for ME 2, it still doesn't make sense that we can't at least equip our squad with better or more protective gear. If it's a suicide mission, wearing the best armour would seem like a no-brainer. Why not offer both? Customise their outfits as well as their armour.

And finally: For ME 3, why not give us slightly more abilities to choose from? ME 1 had too many redundant abilities. But ME 2 didn't have enough. Add more Biotic powers, more Tech powers so players have more options available to create a unique class.

See? It's not so difficult to give some decent feedback to BioWare for ME 3. It's a lot more helpful than the  'ME 2 is not a proper sequel!!!! BW have stuffed everything up!111' mentality that's around here.

This man has it perfect.
I love ME2, but I do wish there were a little more RPG elements to the game. But really, the overall vision they had is great: Get rid of the useless stuff from the first game. The combat in ME2 is how it should have been from the beginning, but again feel it could use [i]a little[/b] more role-playing to it.
I have confidence that BioWare will find the right balance between RPG/shooter with ME3.
I also love the ammo & cool-down system you suggested, that would be a great addition.

Modifié par Anticitizen1, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:19 .

[Pocketgb]

30 hours in, and now I'm stuck at work.  want to play more me2 plox k thx

Orogenic wrote...

ME 1: achievenents unlocked new, interesting options.

ME 2: achievements are pointless.

Achievements should be just that: achievements. There are a few that still do that, though, but off the top of my head the only one I can recall is beating the game once to get a +25% xp bonus permanently.

Orogenic wrote...

ME 1: skill tree allowed experimenting with unconventional skillsets.. lots of fun, GREAT replayability.

ME 2: skill planning is brain optional.

Speaking as a Soldier, I felt that nothing else mattered as long as I had Immunity maxed. Yawn. Nothing else really felt as active save as a fully-maxed Adept, in which case the game itself becomes "brain optional", just like with immunity.

In ME2, I'm not too into the balance at this point, but max tree bonuses are pretty interesting. Not to mention the development that goes into which additional trees you'd like unlocked, the advancement of your upgrades, researches, etc. and I'm still feeling the progression.

Orogenic wrote...

ME 1: character development made events feel important, made the scope of the game epic.  I often told friends that one of the best movies I saw in 2008 was actually a video game....

ME 2: I'm finding it hard to care if my team lives or dies...

It's probably the first Bioware game I've picked him where I actually loved *all* of the characters.

Each his own. This happens with every great game released these days. The shift from ME1-ME2 is a bit sympathetic, though, but only a bit.