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[Hubb-]

I am just getting out of class and I am bored. I will alleviate that with ME2 goodness when I get home.



Is ME2 different than ME1? Yes, the changes are growing on me though.

[infinityBCRT]

George Shepard wrote...

Utterly disagree, the story, the characters, the overall universe is amazing. Each character mission feels like Noveria or Feros. The dialogue, camera movements and the voice acting is the BEST I have ever seen. The combat is well done and extremely rewarding to play. As for RPG elements I must profess my continuing amazement at you classic RPG fanboys. Going through inventories equipping yourself and party members DOES NOT show an RPG. A ROLE PLAYING GAME is when you play the role of a certain character through customization and personalization. ME does this brilliantly in #1 and #2. So congratulations Bioware. you have effectively made the greatest game of your existence. I and thousands of other are thoroughly enjoying this amazing experience. I know I am.

I don't think anyone disagrees that ME1's implementation of Inventory, Planet Exploration and Quest progression needed some fine tuning. The problem we have is that we thought they were going to make those things better instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Inventory has been done better in RPGs before (the whole convert to gel thing was done horribly) and if they did want to keep it simple they could have easily offered an auto-Inventory management for those who didn't have to deal with it. People who hated the Mako hated it because they expected it to drive like the Warthog but it didn't. Bioware also didn't give a tutorial on how to use the secondary functions. People would get lost in the game and stop playing when it opened up in ME1 not because there was no mission complete screen or because they weren't automatically transported back to the Normandy after every quest but because there was no clear indicator and constant reminder as what needs to be done next to progress the story unlike in Assassin's Creed 2.

[Orogenic]

Bercilak de Hautdesert wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Hehe.

Thanks for the clarification.. I now have a firm grasp of the level of discussion I can expect on this forum.

Welcome to the internet. 

On a serious note, I agree with some of the things you've pointed out.  I would add that, although the gameplay is fun (for the most part) and the graphics are improved, I find that I'm somehow. . .underwhelmed by ME2 even though I can't quite put my finger on it.  I had a real sense of wonder when I went through ME (even with the tedious Mako missions) and I was genuinely touched at the end, listening to a 50,000 year old AI talk about the desperate, slow death of its creators' race while I was surrounded by the sarcophagi of those creators deep in the catacombs.

Maybe it's the story?  At the end of ME, you get a definite sense that the bad guys lost, you've won, and things will be good; there wasn't--if memory serves--even a foreshadowing of the story that would become ME2 so it feels. . .tacked on, maybe?

In any case, I share some of your disappointment even though the completist in me ensures that I'll finish ME2.  And who knows?  I may come across something in ME2 that'll make me go, "Wow!" just like the first one did.  If you haven't finished playing through it, maybe consider doing so. . .

My two cents (about what this post's worth). 

So cool!  You hit on the very moment in ME 1 that absolutely blew me away and made me feel like I was in a Frank Herbert or Dan Simmons novel.  The music and atmosphere were perfect and stunning : )

I am TRYING to get through my first playthrough with ME 2.  I feel obligated to at least do that, but every time I boot it up I find I don't really like or care about the characters and my mind starts to wander after about an hour.  It's quite odd- I've never felt a sense of "obligation" to finish a game I wasn't enjoying.  I guess that's just a testament to the greatness of the first game.

Thanks for your sane, rational, and well written post in an ocean of excrement....

[The Demonologist]

Politics made Anderson into a ****.



Not cool, Anderson.

[Jack Shaftoe21]

Elithranduil wrote...

I admit it did seem a little odd after the Council were saved from their near-death experience from a gigantic Reaper ship that took inconceivable amounts of firepower for it to be a mere Geth creation, followed by humanity being elected to the Council and Anderson giving that rousing speech about mobilizing the Citadel Fleet and pushing the Reapers back into Dark Space - for it all to be trivialized after 2 years. I was left gobsmacked at how contrived the explanation was. I delivered incontrovertible proof all life in the Galaxy was going to be purged and then as soon as I am off the grid they close the book on it? What the hell? The way ME1 finished it sounded like the Council were 100% committed and dedicated to fighting the Reaper menace. They did a complete 180. It just felt so contrived.

That's really what bothers me the most. Anderson, someone who had the courage of their convictions to put their life and career on the line by punching out C-Sec officers to release the Normandy to Ilos, suddenly turns into this "oh well politics huh - what can you do?" kind of guy.

Does the Council and Anderson not recall the very near-extinction of all life / Citadel invasion event? How can that just be ignored? Gah.

ME2 is pretty good besides that though.

Right there with you. I hadn't read anything about the plot of ME 2 and played ME 1 for the first time just few months ago. so I was quite shocked when everyone in the game was "oh, well, it was the Geth, not the Reapers, silly" and Cerberus was suddenly not a top-secret bastion of evil but morally grey organization that everyone and his dog in the galaxy seemed to know about. And the weird thing is they did so well with the continuity apart from the main plot. All the people from ME1 you met, etc.

[Mezinger]

Lycid wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

I played through ME 1 at least a dozen times and enjoyed every minute of it.

ME 2 is the first game I've ever pre-ordered.  It will also be the last.

I'm not saying ME 2 is necessarily a bad game in its own right, but it is missing so much that made the original unique that it seems almost misleading to call it a sequel.

ME2 is so linear it hurts. 

Simplify the inventory system? That would have been great.  Completely eliminate loot and inventory?? What??

Reduce the amount of time consumed roaming around secondary planets? Worthy goal.  Eliminate this aspect completely??  What??

ME 1: achievenents unlocked new, interesting options.

ME 2: achievements are pointless.

ME 1: skill tree allowed experimenting with unconventional skillsets.. lots of fun, GREAT replayability.

ME 2: skill planning is brain optional.

ME 1: character development made events feel important, made the scope of the game epic.  I often told friends that one of the best movies I saw in 2008 was actually a video game....

ME 2: I'm finding it hard to care if my team lives or dies...

etc, etc....


There are so many games out there that appeal to the simpler "shooter" mindset.  I've played a number of them and enjoyed them.  ME 1 was unique though.. something really special.  It was actually the only reason I didn't pitch my console completely.  Looks like I'll be able to clear up some space for new AV equipment now.


The game changes will certainly open up the Mass Effect series to a much larger customer base.  Can't fault a business for making a good business decision.  It is sad to realize, however, that games like ME 1 will forever remain vulnerable to their own success.

I am 100% with you Orogenic... For those of us that were enthralled with ME1 ME2 leaves much to be desired. It's a sad day for those of us who replayed the original multiple times, Bioware/EA has to pursue it's business interest true enough, but CRPGs have always been a little outside of mainstream, with shooters being the dominate gaming genre since Wolfenstein3D, and it's a sad thing to see such a unique and wonderful game be followed by such a refocused mass appeal (forgive the pun) product... Bioware has long been a CRPG developer and in this game their leaving part of their roots behind. Sad for us RPGers, good for EA stock holders? Let's hope Bioware never does a sports title. LOL!

This is why the arguments here are not even worth addressing. Some of you are ridiculous. GUESS WHAT? Mass Effect 2 is not the only game Bioware has released in the last half year or so. Guess what the other one was, and if anyone questioned that it was an RPG?

So because they made Dragon Age which is an excellent however fairly traditional RPG that somehow exonerates them from removing the majority of the RPG elements from ME? I am not sure I follow.

[Zentrasi]

I find I am the exact opposite of the OP. I have had to force myself to STOP playing because I feel like I'm rushing through it too quickly and I want to savour each moment a lot more.



So, here I am roaming the forums instead of playing, all the time wondering "What happens in the Garrus loyalty mission?" "Oh, and I wonder what happens with Liara later on?" "Oh and I wonder... "



Gah.. I'm going to have to go play some more!

[MythikStripes]

Zentrasi wrote...

I find I am the exact opposite of the OP. I have had to force myself to STOP playing because I feel like I'm rushing through it too quickly and I want to savour each moment a lot more.

So, here I am roaming the forums instead of playing, all the time wondering "What happens in the Garrus loyalty mission?" "Oh, and I wonder what happens with Liara later on?" "Oh and I wonder... "

Gah.. I'm going to have to go play some more!

Yea dude im with you 100% on that. ive played ME1 from the day it came out and loved every single aspect of it ( Mako, not so much). Same with ME2 now. I find myself unable to stop myself from playing. i mean i go to work and im constantly thinking," Whats the deal with the collectors? Why are they working for the reapers? Who should i bang? Miranda or Jack for ****s and gigs?"

Overall i can see why some people dont like ME2 cuz some stuff was taken away from RPG, but the essentials are still there.

YOU'RE still creating YOUR character YOUR way, YOU'RE shaping YOUR story YOUR way. So there really should be no big issues.

Thats just my two cents.

[Farsidedown]

here's what I see...



"Mass Effect 2 is the first game I've preordered..."



what. either you don't care about preorder bonuses, or you just don't buy that many games. If it's the former, that just doesn't make much sense, because they're basically free. You're not paying a cent more and getting additional content, which is always a good thing. If it's the latter, all your points are void as you do not play enough games to become a decent critic of quality titles.



I'm going to play the hell out of this game. Can't wait to make alternate Renegade choices in my next playthrough, and the dialogue, combat, etc (everything) far outdoes the first.

[MythikStripes]

Farsidedown wrote...

here's what I see...

"Mass Effect 2 is the first game I've preordered..."

what. either you don't care about preorder bonuses, or you just don't buy that many games. If it's the former, that just doesn't make much sense, because they're basically free. You're not paying a cent more and getting additional content, which is always a good thing. If it's the latter, all your points are void as you do not play enough games to become a decent critic of quality titles.

I'm going to play the hell out of this game. Can't wait to make alternate Renegade choices in my next playthrough, and the dialogue, combat, etc (everything) far outdoes the first.

well said

[Orogenic]

Farsidedown wrote...

here's what I see...

"Mass Effect 2 is the first game I've preordered..."

what. either you don't care about preorder bonuses, or you just don't buy that many games. If it's the former, that just doesn't make much sense, because they're basically free. You're not paying a cent more and getting additional content, which is always a good thing. If it's the latter, all your points are void as you do not play enough games to become a decent critic of quality titles.

I'm going to play the hell out of this game. Can't wait to make alternate Renegade choices in my next playthrough, and the dialogue, combat, etc (everything) far outdoes the first.

Is this post for real? 

The vast majority of console games are utter garbage.  Anyone who doesn't rent them to check them out first is a fool.  I pre-ordered Mass Effect 2 because the first game was fantastic and absolutely unique in my experience- closer to a hybrid game-movie-novel than the standard, brain-dead "blow stuff up" garbage that makes up 99% of console games.

It seems lots of people look at "shooter" type games as some sort of challenge to test eye-hand coordination.  Personally, I'm into ice climbing and mountaineering in real life and I play music for fun. These activities provide ample opportunity to test my coordination and skill.  I do not care about shooting fake stuff in a game.... the ONLY reason I find gaming interesting is because it represents the frontier of storytelling in the electronic medium.

Mass Effect was revolutionary in this aspect.

Mass Effect 2 is much less so.  Sorry if this hurts peoples' feelings, but the truth of the matter is that Mass Effect 2 was majorly dumbed-down to appeal to people that feel some sense of accomplishment from shooting fake stuff.  Many of us were looking for the STORY.  THAT is how Bioware let people down.. they went for commercial success instead of pushing forward with what might have been another revolutionary chapter in the evolution of what is essentially a NEW ART FORM.  Do you guys get it now?

[Kohaku]

I guess I'm different Orogenic. I've never rented a game in my life and pretty much 85% of the games I have were brought when they came out. I've had very few purchases that were bad ones because I knew what I was getting before hand. I understand that everyone has their issues with the game as it is currently but be realistic. I roamed on the ME boards before now and people complained about what it was then. Now they change it and you all complain just as much. Bioware has no out in this because you all **** and complain no matter what they do.



I'm sick of the "If we didn't love it so much we wouldn't complain" because that's bull. I understand having complaints but you all want to keep it the same but not. It doesn't make rational sense.



I personally don't see anything wrong with the story as it is. That's what an RPG is. The story. Just because the battle system is different doesn't mean the story suffered.

[Fujin05]

Jorlen wrote...

Good post and I agree. Playing ME2 just makes me want to go back to ME1. ME2 obviously has mroe polish, looks better and probably had a higher budget but I don't give two sh!ts about those things. Guess I'm part of the dying breed then. I'll play ME2 once. And then sell it. Hope you make a lot of cash Bioware, but you've broken a lot of hearts in the process.

Agree.

I've been reading through this Thread for about an hour now and I'm happy to know that I'm not the only one, who sees things the way I do.

I also think that ME2 is a great game, - no question. BUT I do also think that it just isn't Mass Effect anymore. 

The argument that the game was mainstreamed is sad, - but true.

I won't complain about every uspect of the game that isn't as good as I hoped, but I really miss the customization of the Squad. Changing the armors, making the Squad look unite! The recoulering in ME2 is just disappointing! -.-'

I'm looking forward to ME3, though I don't expect too much after this one...

Take Care.

----

Fujin.

[Orogenic]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I guess I'm different Orogenic. I've never rented a game in my life and pretty much 85% of the games I have were brought when they came out. I've had very few purchases that were bad ones because I knew what I was getting before hand. I understand that everyone has their issues with the game as it is currently but be realistic. I roamed on the ME boards before now and people complained about what it was then. Now they change it and you all complain just as much. Bioware has no out in this because you all **** and complain no matter what they do.

I'm sick of the "If we didn't love it so much we wouldn't complain" because that's bull. I understand having complaints but you all want to keep it the same but not. It doesn't make rational sense.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the story as it is. That's what an RPG is. The story. Just because the battle system is different doesn't mean the story suffered.

My only regret is that I never came on these boards the entire time I was playing ME 1 to say what a fantastic game they had created... to be honest I didn't even know this forum existed until I had to jump through all of the hoops to get the pre-order stuff.

[kiyyto]

I agree completely.

Boring is the exact right word for ME2.



ME2 < ME in nearly every way.

Why did they do this to a good game?

They completed gutted it.

[kiyyto]

Orogenic wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I guess I'm different Orogenic. I've never rented a game in my life and pretty much 85% of the games I have were brought when they came out. I've had very few purchases that were bad ones because I knew what I was getting before hand. I understand that everyone has their issues with the game as it is currently but be realistic. I roamed on the ME boards before now and people complained about what it was then. Now they change it and you all complain just as much. Bioware has no out in this because you all **** and complain no matter what they do.

I'm sick of the "If we didn't love it so much we wouldn't complain" because that's bull. I understand having complaints but you all want to keep it the same but not. It doesn't make rational sense.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the story as it is. That's what an RPG is. The story. Just because the battle system is different doesn't mean the story suffered.

My only regret is that I never came on these boards the entire time I was playing ME 1 to say what a fantastic game they had created... to be honest I didn't even know this forum existed until I had to jump through all of the hoops to get the pre-order stuff.

I also completely agree.
I should have registered my support for ME, perhaps then I would have helped to create a good wave of support to continue the series in a manner similar to ME, and not ME2.

Oh well, lesson learned though. I'll voice support for the games I like from now on.

[hitorihanzo]

Popstick wrote...

Some of the best discussions on ME 1 revolved around the story and characters. Since most people haven't finished the game yet, you won't see decent, thoughtful debates for a few more weeks.

Exactly.  The pacing of this game is completely different than ME1, but once you get to the meat of it, the characters are fantastic.  And there are enough carry overs from ME1 that all of the characters end up feeling like your family by the end. 

Tali's story especially touched me. 

As far as decision making goes, I suppose you haven't played the game long enough to see some of the decisions that you have to make.  There are a lot of things you can / cannot do.

[NickolasDS]

I'll disagree with the main post. I find it more interesting than the first. The first was simple in the sense of environment. Everything was just rock and the same buildings over and over. This one has more appealing structures and atmosphere. I also enjoy the new combat system. Working with cool abilities and having to be more tactical. The first had an extremely boring combat system. Abilities were less robust feeling and the fact that ammo was limitless and once you got certain armor... it was just a matter of beating around the bush from there.

Everything in this one is way more open and has variety.

I love it.

Modifié par NickolasDS, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:16 .

[hitorihanzo]

Orogenic wrote...

Farsidedown wrote...

here's what I see...

"Mass Effect 2 is the first game I've preordered..."

what. either you don't care about preorder bonuses, or you just don't buy that many games. If it's the former, that just doesn't make much sense, because they're basically free. You're not paying a cent more and getting additional content, which is always a good thing. If it's the latter, all your points are void as you do not play enough games to become a decent critic of quality titles.

I'm going to play the hell out of this game. Can't wait to make alternate Renegade choices in my next playthrough, and the dialogue, combat, etc (everything) far outdoes the first.

Is this post for real? 

The vast majority of console games are utter garbage.  Anyone who doesn't rent them to check them out first is a fool.  I pre-ordered Mass Effect 2 because the first game was fantastic and absolutely unique in my experience- closer to a hybrid game-movie-novel than the standard, brain-dead "blow stuff up" garbage that makes up 99% of console games.

It seems lots of people look at "shooter" type games as some sort of challenge to test eye-hand coordination.  Personally, I'm into ice climbing and mountaineering in real life and I play music for fun. These activities provide ample opportunity to test my coordination and skill.  I do not care about shooting fake stuff in a game.... the ONLY reason I find gaming interesting is because it represents the frontier of storytelling in the electronic medium.

Mass Effect was revolutionary in this aspect.

Mass Effect 2 is much less so.  Sorry if this hurts peoples' feelings, but the truth of the matter is that Mass Effect 2 was majorly dumbed-down to appeal to people that feel some sense of accomplishment from shooting fake stuff.  Many of us were looking for the STORY.  THAT is how Bioware let people down.. they went for commercial success instead of pushing forward with what might have been another revolutionary chapter in the evolution of what is essentially a NEW ART FORM.  Do you guys get it now?

 
WHAT?!?  Did you even play ME1?!?!?  Most, if not all, of the missions were comprised you running and gunning, and blowing **** up.  There wasn't one mission where you didn't! 

A game can only be revolutionary once.  If it had been revolutionary a second time, it wouldn't have been Mass Effect.  It would've had to be a different animal entirely.  This game is still very much Mass Effect, and that's what BioWare was going for.

Case in point:  There was a guy who made movies- some of the most successful ever made.  He then made a prequel trilogy to those movies and tried to "reinvent the wheel', be be revolutionary, so to speak.  The majority of the prequels didn't have the same "feel" as the ones that preceeded it.  Consequently, he did great damage to his brand. 



For my money, ME2 is better in just about every way.

[Orogenic]

NickolasDS wrote...

I'll disagree with the main post. I find it more interesting than the first. The first was simple in the sense of environment. Everything was just rock and the same buildings over and over. This one has more appealing structures and atmosphere. I also enjoy the new combat system. Working with cool abilities and having to be more tactical. The first had an extremely boring combat system. Abilities were less robust feeling and the fact that ammo was limitless and once you got certain armor... it was just a matter of beating around the bush from there.

Everything in this one is way more open and has variety.

I love it.

I'm glad you are enjoying the new game.  Thanks for a good post that presents a counterpoint without resorting to personal attacks and insults : )

[Orogenic]

hitorihanzo wrote...


Case in point:  There was a guy who made movies- some of the most successful ever made.  He then made a prequel trilogy to those movies and tried to "reinvent the wheel', be be revolutionary, so to speak.  The majority of the prequels didn't have the same "feel" as the ones that preceeded it.  Consequently, he did great damage to his brand. 


For my money, ME2 is better in just about every way.

Funny that you bring up Star Wars... I started thinking about Jar Jar Binks about halfway through the first mission in ME 2....

[NickolasDS]

Orogenic wrote...

NickolasDS wrote...

I'll disagree with the main post. I find it more interesting than the first. The first was simple in the sense of environment. Everything was just rock and the same buildings over and over. This one has more appealing structures and atmosphere. I also enjoy the new combat system. Working with cool abilities and having to be more tactical. The first had an extremely boring combat system. Abilities were less robust feeling and the fact that ammo was limitless and once you got certain armor... it was just a matter of beating around the bush from there.

Everything in this one is way more open and has variety.

I love it.

I'm glad you are enjoying the new game.  Thanks for a good post that presents a counterpoint without resorting to personal attacks and insults : )

I don't think there's a point at arguing anyone's opinion. We all have our own. I just feel that there should be more open-minded thinking when it comes down to opinion on movies, games or even music.