459 réponses à ce sujet

[Inex]

Although i agree with most of the points in the original post, I don't want the hero of Ferelden to return because of one simple reason: current Bioware is probably going to ruin him/her. They should just fast forward from 9:41 dragon to around 9:60 when the warden dies to the taint, but not before discovering how to cure it.

[Fidite Nemini]

My suggestion covers what you have claimed to want from BioWare. So you're just saying you disagree just because. That's kind of petty.

 

You are either too biased in favour for your own agenda or too narrowminded to accept my point. Your suggestion is the anti-thesis to what I want. What you say is we need the HoF. What I say is I don't. There, two polar opposites. Anything else you're saying goes along on that base assumption that we need the HoF. Since I evidently don't share that opinion, I inherently can't agree with your follow up points, regardless of how tangibly they might coincide with my preferred design of having compelling original characters.

 

I hope that was enough to make my point clear, because it will be the last understanding response you'll get from the petty me.

[Kierro Ren]

I'd love to see my Warden-Commander Amell. However, by the sound of his letter, both him and Zevran are happily travelling together. So I'm content to know that for once he's happy, and with his elven lover. Seriously, what more could I ask for?

 

I made mage Hawke (as best as I could both in DA2 n DAI), resemble my Amell. So, it was kinda like I was fighting with my Warden mage. I'd love to of had my Lavellan meet my warden, but like in life. We don't always get to meet our childhood hero.

[CathyMe]

 That title alone made me feel insulted. A bit presumptuous there, aren't you, thinking you know what I want. 

 

That's right. Every fan of Dragon Age wants the Hero of Ferelden to return in the next game, and yes that includes you. This is a fact that I will prove objectively.

 

No, this isn't another "Bring Back the Hero" thread, and no I am not going to apply the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

 

Notice I'm not posting this in the suggestions forum. This topic is to get a point across to the fans, not to BioWare. My intention is to convince YOU that the Hero's return is the only viable option, and one that you WANT to take place. It's just that many fans aren't aware of this... yet.

 

Other threads have proven how the Hero can return in the next game or expansion, but this thread proves WHY the Hero must return and why you want this to be so.

 

 

The Hero is too important now

 

The Hero's story is now too big and too crucial to the current events for the Hero to sit this next one out. The cure for the taint, Flemeth, Mythal's compulsion, Morrigan, the Grey Warden order, the remaining old god souls, the eluvians, any remaining darkspawn magisters, the remaining rifts, and possibly even the nature of red lyrium.

 

Those are just the plots that tie to EVERY living Hero. Now break this down into each Origin. Human noble has Highever, and possibly Denerim if the Hero is King or Queen. That means all the same issues that the other monarch has to deal with, and that includes relations with Orlais. Mage Heroes have the situation with the mages, templars, and Chantry. Elves have the story dealing with the Elven Pantheon, especially a Dalish Hero, who would also have the other Dalish clans to interact with. The dwarves have Orzammar and possibly Kal'Sharok to contend with. Now include the possible romances, such as with Morrigan or with Leliana (Victoria?). Now include the possibility of the Hero being the father of Kieran.

 

The Inquisition as an organization can only do so much. At some point it comes down to select individuals who set out in small parties to effect real change in the world and solve its problems up close and hands on.

 

 

Few others measure up

 

In the case of an expansion, the Inquisitor will need a new companion or two. Even if Leliana becomes Divine, allowing Cass and Vivi to stick around, and even if The Iron Bull becomes Tal Vashoth and Blackwall stays on board, there are people who will definitely leave eventually. Aside from the obvious example, Varric also leaves, as does Dorian. And really the only characters who will always stick around no matter what are Sera and Cole, and they can be dismissed or turned away during the game.

 

Now you might say that any expansion could just introduce new characters like Awakening did for the most part. But in this case they would have to explain how these new characters are on the same general level as the Inquisitor. With the Hero, no explanation is needed. We all know the Hero is on the level, and possibly even superior in combat skill to the Inquisitor. It's an easy and perfect fit.

 

Another point to consider here is how any new character would fit the storyline. Why are these new characters joining up with the Inquisitor and what do they bring to the table? Again, it's clear to see what the Hero offers. The cure to the taint, or at least a really good plan on how to obtain it, as well as knowledge about Flemeth, Morrigan, and the eluvian. Maybe the scrying ritual will even come up. Or hey, how about that Circle tower you remember having a talking psychic statue in its basement? Yeah, the Hero can get access to it. Need someone to help close rifts? The Hero did that a decade ago in the Blackmarsh and all without an anchor might I add. Need someone who has a lot of pull with the Wardens? Who better than the Warden-Commander of Ferelden? Need to go into the Fade? The Hero has been there at least twice.

 

Now I'm sure any expansion will still need to have some new characters to replace any that left the party at the end of Inquisition, and BioWare will have to think up reasons as to why these powerful characters didn't show themselves until now, but at least with the Hero the reason has already been revealed to us.

 

 

Your Hero has already returned

 

That's right. For all the grumbling about not wanting the Hero to return because "head canon", the fact of the matter is that Inquisition has already decided that your Hero returns to the world stage in order to search for a cure to the taint. Any romance you had, any throne you sat on, any family you started, all on hold. Whether you like it or not, Inquisition took control of your Hero and made it possible for the Inquisitor to make contact. At present, the Keep does not have a tile to indicate whether you followed through on that or not, so it's possible that this will be one of those forced decisions, as was the case with Awakening, Golems, or Witch Hunt. And I may be mistaken, but I think Inquisition does at least force the chore table mission "Contact the Hero of Ferelden" to appear, even if you don't complete it. So while you may be able to take a pass on contacting the Hero, it does at least show that the Hero's location is far west and that either Morrigan or Leliana can get ahold of the Hero if needed, and so can the Inquisition.

 

And what will the Hero do now? What will the Hero do after the cure is found? Ride off into the sunset? No. The Hero will use the cure accordingly, and that will likely involve whatever mischief the Grey Wardens are up to at Weisshaupt.

 

So, since the Hero has returned already and will likely be used in further storylines, wouldn't you rather have some control over what your Hero does and for what reasons?

 

 

Keep your options open

 

Let's put all this gameplay and storyline talk aside for a second and recognize the simple truth. Fans made a big deal about bringing the Hero back when Inquisition was first announced and BioWare asked what we would like to see in the next game. Lo and behold, we got our Hero back in some measure. The call for the Hero's return is even greater than it was before, and this call will only get louder now that the Hero has been given a quest that quite frankly seems a lot more interesting than most Inquisition quests. And face it, with all the remakes that are being produced nowadays, it's clear that people want things they are familiar with. For BioWare, this represents a safe, easy profit.

 

So it basically comes down to this. Get on board, or get left in the dust. If all you do is say you don't want the Hero to be in the next installment, BioWare will ignore you in favor of all the fans who want the Hero back, since this is the direction they're going with it anyway. What everyone here will benefit from is having you back in the discussion and submitting your feedback and suggestions on how to best implement the Hero's return. As has been suggested elsewhere, an option to not have the Hero in the game, but rather sit it out by player choice, could be an option for players who just want to let the Hero retire with dignity. To add on this suggestion, another option is to let the players choose how the Hero bows out. In this case YOU would actually get to decide where the Hero goes, who with, and why. The Hero's story ends on YOUR terms in this case.

 

That's why I write, keep your options open. The fact of the matter is that you want the Hero to return, even if it's just to decide how the Hero stays out of the way from now on.

 

It's like Varric says, if your favorite character in a book were to have an easy life, you'd stop reading. So the best way to end the Hero's story? Demand the Hero's return along with the option to decide the Hero's fate yourself. Or would you rather have BioWare choose it for you? Think about it, and imagine how well your head canon will hold up against that prospect. There will always be fans who will demand the Hero's story be covered, and BioWare will always cave in to those demands and write a story to placate these fans.

 

Who knows, maybe the option to choose how the Hero retires will be the only feature BioWare uses. Or maybe they return the Hero with everything the fans want, and the story will fit perfectly with everyone's head canons.

 

What was the main complaint against Hawke in DA2? That the Champion didn't really feel like our character. This complaint was amplified in Inquisition, where many fans complain that Hawke was made to say things that these players considered out of character. What were the complaints against the Inquisitor? That most of the interesting missions on the chore table could not be done directly by the Inquisitor. Most of these sentiments were based off of prior experience with how well Origins handled these issues. Well, the remedy for both is found in the Hero. Our character, taking on interesting missions.

 

Those who say they don't want the Hero back also complain about how their Hero was roped in to the cure quest. They say to let the Hero's story end on whatever note that was suggested in DA:O/A. But the only way to do that is to have the power put back in your hands, and then choose that ending yourself. For this, you need the Hero back. So whether you're aware of it or not, you do want the Hero back even if it's to end the Hero's story once and for all.

 

 

A noble end

 

Lastly, I want to appeal to your sense of honor. Even in world states where the Hero made the Ultimate Sacrifice, seeing the Hero respected for this would add a great deal of nostalgia and emotion to the game. It's said that something is happening with the Wardens at Weisshaupt. Going to Weisshaupt to investigate seems like the obvious choice. Who is buried there next to Garahel? The Ultimate Sacrifice Hero.

 

Imagine walking up to a tomb dedicated to the Fifth Blight. Inside, a massive chamber, with statues of Duncan and Riordan at the entrance. Paintings all around commemorating Ostagar and to some extent Cailan. Sculptures, artwork, and tapestries telling the story of who the Hero recruited and what the Hero did to save Ferelden from the blight as well as itself. And at the center, a coffin carved right into the stone, the banner of the Hero flying overhead. Cousland heraldry? Aducan? Amell? That would all be based on who your Hero was, but only if your Hero returns in some capacity. In this case, through the imported world state as a dead Hero lying in the sealed tomb at Weisshaupt. Maybe there's a statue of the Hero there as well.

 

So that's all I have for now. I think this is more than enough to prove my points. Please post your comments and tell me what you think of this.

[berelinde]

 That title alone made me feel insulted. A bit presumptuous there, aren't you, thinking you know what I want. 

 

<snipped images>

The OP doesn't seem to think that fans are capable of knowing what they want. The OP is mistaken.

 

The OP has taken to reposting the same tired argument over and over again, but that does not make him or her any less wrong.

 

Some fans do want the HoF back, and they are very loud about it.

 

Some fans DO NOT want the HoF back. They don't want to play as the HoF. They don't want to hear about the HoF. They don't want closure. They just want to let it go.

 

This thread may go on for another 15 pages, but it degenerated into "I don't want that."/"Yes, you do"/"No, I really don't"/"Thank you for agreeing with me"/"I'm not agreeing with you"/"You are" about 14 pages ago.

[Il Divo]

Personally, I'm more convinced that every fan wants a Darkspawn romance than I am that every fan wants the HoF to return. That's how much sense the OP is making at the moment. 

[Dai Grepher]

Although i agree with most of the points in the original post, I don't want the hero of Ferelden to return because of one simple reason: current Bioware is probably going to ruin him/her. They should just fast forward from 9:41 dragon to around 9:60 when the warden dies to the taint, but not before discovering how to cure it.

 

Again, please read my first post. The suggestion includes an option to leave the Hero out of the next installment completely. So even if BioWare ruins it, you would still be able to avoid that ruin and select the Hero's end yourself.

[Dai Grepher]

You are either too biased in favour for your own agenda or too narrowminded to accept my point. Your suggestion is the anti-thesis to what I want. What you say is we need the HoF. What I say is I don't. There, two polar opposites. Anything else you're saying goes along on that base assumption that we need the HoF. Since I evidently don't share that opinion, I inherently can't agree with your follow up points, regardless of how tangibly they might coincide with my preferred design of having compelling original characters.

 

I hope that was enough to make my point clear, because it will be the last understanding response you'll get from the petty me.

 

Or you don't understand what I wrote, or what you want, or both.

 

You: I want the HoF to not appear.

 

Me: Cool. Here's an option to make the HoF not appear.

 

You: That isn't want I want!

 

I didn't say we NEED the Hero. Why would I say that if my suggestion includes the option to write the Hero out of the story? "Anything else you're saying"? See you didn't read what I wrote. You're just making assumptions.

[Dai Grepher]

I'd love to see my Warden-Commander Amell. However, by the sound of his letter, both him and Zevran are happily travelling together. So, I'm content to know that for once he's happy, and with his elven lover. Seriously, what more could I ask for?

 

I made mage Hawke (as best as I could both in DA2 n DAI), resemble my Amell. So, it was kinda like I was fighting with my Warden mage. I'd love to of had my Lavellan meet my warden, but like in life. We don't always get to meet our childhood hero.

 

If that's the ending you want, then under my suggestion you would be able to select that. But just because BioWare did right by you this time doesn't mean they will in the next game. What if they do something different with your Hero in that case? Wouldn't you rather have the option to play as your Hero then select his ending, or just select his ending, rather than let BioWare bring him back in whatever capacity they wish and decide his fate?

 

And what about any other Heroes? Put that one aside. What about any second or third playthroughs?

 

Also, I have to ask, did Inquisition actually state that the Hero and Zevran are traveling together? I thought the cure quest was forced on every Hero regardless. And I know Zevran has his own quest during one of Inquisition's chore table missions.

[Hadeedak]

My problem is that an installment that has the hero (or not!), accounts for as many hero variables as would make people happy, and introduces a compelling new protagonist who doesn't just feel like hero clone or shoe-horn the Inquisitor into the hero's place (or vice-versa) would be a ginormous pain in the butt to write, and probably, not to put too fine a point on it, not work.

 

You need at least two new voice actors to be the hero, even if the Inquisitor is your backup (and then you need all four inquistor voice actors back...). You probably want more than that, or dwarf players (myself included) will hold a small polite riot about having to have a silly Fereldan accent like some common Cousland. And, since the Orlesian Warden probably has an accent, they'll probably need separate voice actors. If the Warden has any of their companions back, they need voices. Their familiar voices. Ditto for Inquisitor. 

 

Honestly, the DLC sounds like a nightmare of complexity for one last hoorah, and I think it wouldn't make people happy. It certainly wouldn't make everyone happy. And it almost certainly wouldn't be of the quality you're hoping. It's too much of a mess. This sounds like it'd make a ripping fanfic or two, but it wouldn't be a DLC I'd particularly want to buy. It seems like it'd be bloated and have so many variables to account for that the actual campaign would be short and probably underwhelming.

 

...Gimme companion DLCs instead. I would 100% rather have Vivienne and Aveline complaining about everyone else being goofballs than seeing hide or hair of my Wardens. I WANT more Nathaniel Howe and Sigrun, and that's the closest I really come to wanting to play the Warden again. 

 

I just don't think what you're proposing would work well. Sorry.

[Dai Grepher]

The OP doesn't seem to think that fans are capable of knowing what they want. The OP is mistaken.

 

The OP has taken to reposting the same tired argument over and over again, but that does not make him or her any less wrong.

 

Some fans do want the HoF back, and they are very loud about it.

 

Some fans DO NOT want the HoF back. They don't want to play as the HoF. They don't want to hear about the HoF. They don't want closure. They just want to let it go.

 

This thread may go on for another 15 pages, but it degenerated into "I don't want that."/"Yes, you do"/"No, I really don't"/"Thank you for agreeing with me"/"I'm not agreeing with you"/"You are" about 14 pages ago.

 

No, I see what they want and provided a solution to fulfill all wants. The only type of demand that has a chance of getting around this is one that says not only that they don't want to see their Hero again, but they don't want other players to see their Heroes again either. And in that case, I think we'd be getting into non-fan territory.

 

Right, I repeated myself since some people here chose not to read what I wrote the first time and instead decided to post arguments that I had already addressed.

 

And like I wrote, for those who don't want the Hero to ever be mentioned or shown at all, there would be an option for that so that their Hero can drop off the face of Thedas forever. But no, they don't want the thing they just admitted to wanting.

[Dai Grepher]

Personally, I'm more convinced that every fan wants a Darkspawn romance than I am that every fan wants the HoF to return. That's how much sense the OP is making at the moment. 

 

Well, I don't want a darkspawn romance. I want a darkspawn romance!
 

[Hadeedak]

The only type of demand that has a chance of getting around this is one that says not only that they don't want to see their Hero again, but they don't want other players to see their Heroes again either. And in that case, I think we'd be getting into non-fan territory.

 

 In a fictitious world with infinite resources and nonstop dlcs, sure, I'd take "Son of the Bride of DAO".

 

But this ain't it. And I think a Hero Dlc would be a poor use of resources and a DLC opportunity.

[Dai Grepher]

My problem is that an installment that has the hero (or not!), accounts for as many hero variables as would make people happy, and introduces a compelling new protagonist who doesn't just feel like hero clone or shoe-horn the Inquisitor into the hero's place (or vice-versa) would be a ginormous pain in the butt to write, and probably, not to put too fine a point on it, not work.

 

You need at least two new voice actors to be the hero, even if the Inquisitor is your backup (and then you need all four inquistor voice actors back...). You probably want more than that, or dwarf players (myself included) will hold a small polite riot about having to have a silly Fereldan accent like some common Cousland. And, since the Orlesian Warden probably has an accent, they'll probably need separate voice actors. If the Warden has any of their companions back, they need voices. Their familiar voices. Ditto for Inquisitor. 

 

Honestly, the DLC sounds like a nightmare of complexity for one last hoorah, and I think it wouldn't make people happy. It certainly wouldn't make everyone happy. And it almost certainly wouldn't be of the quality you're hoping. It's too much of a mess. This sounds like it'd make a ripping fanfic or two, but it wouldn't be a DLC I'd particularly want to buy. It seems like it'd be bloated and have so many variables to account for that the actual campaign would be short and probably underwhelming.

 

...Gimme companion DLCs instead. I would 100% rather have Vivienne and Aveline complaining about everyone else being goofballs than seeing hide or hair of my Wardens. I WANT more Nathaniel Howe and Sigrun, and that's the closest I really come to wanting to play the Warden again. 

 

I just don't think what you're proposing would work well. Sorry.

 

Both valid concerns. Thanks for replying. To that I would point out that BioWare would only have to account for all possible outcomes deriving from the games. Meaning, among human nobles, ruling Ferelden/Amaranthine/Gwaren, or questing with (insert companion character), or questing alone, or fighting in the Deep Roads, etc. Other origin stories would have some of those options too. What BioWare would not have to account for are things like head canon. Like a female mage Hero who read the Grimoire, learned the Dark Ritual before Morrigan, and then used it herself with Alistair to save both their lives as evidenced by her returning in Awakening. That's simply not supported by the actual events. So BioWare would not have to account for that or any other ludicrous fan fiction.

 

If you think about it, the list is not that extensive. And many of those options apply across the board to all Heroes depending on their choices. So it would not be hard to implement.

 

Now, as for the risk of a Hero clone in the case of those who don't want their Hero to be featured in the game, the thing to remember here is that if the player wants to play as a custom character who is not like their Hero, then that player will obviously make a character that is not like their Hero. In which case, it's a different character completely. For those who don't want the hassle of creating a new Warden type character, presets will work just fine. Even one well-written default character would work. In other words, this new character would be no more a clone than Alistair/Stroud/Loghain were to each other in Inquisition.

 

Like I wrote in the first post, this isn't a thread to hash out the details. This is just the general concept, not the fully detailed blueprint for how it would work. That's an issue for a different topic. Thanks for the post.

[Dai Grepher]

 In a fictitious world with infinite resources and nonstop dlcs, sure, I'd take "Son of the Bride of DAO".

 

But this ain't it. And I think a Hero Dlc would be a poor use of resources and a DLC opportunity.

 

And that's a technical concern to be addressed in detail at a later date. This topic is just to make the point that BioWare will likely bring the Hero back in some capacity. Best that we unite now and lay out our ideas for BioWare to take note of so that they implement the Hero's return in the best way possible.

[Aren]

Personally, I'm more convinced that every fan wants a Darkspawn romance than I am that every fan wants the HoF to return. That's how much sense the OP is making at the moment. 

Disciples yes, darkspawn no.

[Kierro Ren]

Also, I have to ask, did Inquisition actually state that the Hero and Zevran are traveling together? I thought the cure quest was forced on every Hero regardless. And I know Zevran has his own quest during one of Inquisition's chore table missions.

 

By the sound of the letter, the Warden and Zevran are travelling together if in a romance.

 

I already chose his ending, by binding the soul of Urthemiel to his unborn child. Now he's living happily with his elven lover. If BW kills him off, I'd be fine... sad... but fine. Because, you can only cheat death so many times, before it catches up to ya.

[robertthebard]

Both valid concerns. Thanks for replying. To that I would point out that BioWare would only have to account for all possible outcomes deriving from the games. Meaning, among human nobles, ruling Ferelden/Amaranthine/Gwaren, or questing with (insert companion character), or questing alone, or fighting in the Deep Roads, etc. Other origin stories would have some of those options too. What BioWare would not have to account for are things like head canon. Like a female mage Hero who read the Grimoire, learned the Dark Ritual before Morrigan, and then used it herself with Alistair to save both their lives as evidenced by her returning in Awakening. That's simply not supported by the actual events. So BioWare would not have to account for that or any other ludicrous fan fiction.

There are enough variables in this section here to create an entire game. The true fan fiction in this thread is that this is somehow "easy" to do. Each Origin has to be accounted for, every Keep decision has to be accounted for, and recognized, as relevant to whatever plot. Dialog has to be written to include each and every choice possible, and also, since you're going on to say a generic hero that wasn't involved in any of it, that includes none of it. So what you're looking at here could very well be a 2 minute conversation that has well over 100 variables to account for, for each individual protagonist. Note, they can't just write it for one, they have to write it for all of them, so there's not going to be a lot of actual gameplay, or there can't be a lot of dialog. Because the sheer volume of stuff that has to be accounted for that's just from the game/expansion and DLC is quite large.
 

If you think about it, the list is not that extensive. And many of those options apply across the board to all Heroes depending on their choices. So it would not be hard to implement.

Get a copy of Neverwinter Nights, they're really cheap nowadays. Sit down with the toolset and write all the possible variables out for a single conversation about the events that led up to the Battle of Denerim, and then get back to me about how easy it would be to implement. The list is quite extensive, if it wasn't there wouldn't have been all the issues with imports into DA 2, a system that does exactly what you're wanting here.
 

Now, as for the risk of a Hero clone in the case of those who don't want their Hero to be featured in the game, the thing to remember here is that if the player wants to play as a custom character who is not like their Hero, then that player will obviously make a character that is not like their Hero. In which case, it's a different character completely. For those who don't want the hassle of creating a new Warden type character, presets will work just fine. Even one well-written default character would work. In other words, this new character would be no more a clone than Alistair/Stroud/Loghain were to each other in Inquisition.

So to overcome your desire to have the Warden back, and appease everyone else, they'd essentially have to write an entirely different DLC with the same events. That you have no clue about how any of this works is fairly obvious, do some research into how complicated what you're calling for here really is, and get back to me.
 

Like I wrote in the first post, this isn't a thread to hash out the details. This is just the general concept, not the fully detailed blueprint for how it would work. That's an issue for a different topic. Thanks for the post.

The problem is, you can't have one w/out the other. You're sitting here telling us how easy it would be, when easy is the last thing it would be. The idea here is to show you just how complicated it really is to essentially write two different games/DLCs for a bit of fanservice on the Warden, because at the end of the day, that's all it would be, fanservice. As you can see reading through the thread, you didn't get the overwhelming support for a return you thought you'd get. For a lot of us, the Warden is dead to the US. Rather than spend a ton of time and money building a "Hey, for all of you that can't let go of the Warden" DLC, they could continue to expand on Inquisition, and perhaps start looking forward to the next game too.

However, I would like to see a rather short and sweet DLC for all those that can't let go of the Warden. It would tie directly in to the War Table mission in Inquisition, and would have the same level of canon that Legacy has:

In it, we get a letter that the HoF was found dead in the Deep Roads. We would go to investigate, and discover through HoF's journal that the "cure" for the taint failed, and accelerated their Calling, and they went out like any honorable Warden would, fighting darkspawn until they died.

Giving it Legacy level canon means that the events happen, whether you played it or not. That would mean that next Tuesday, when the next iteration of this thread appears, we could point to the official announcement that the Warden is dead, and cannot be involved in any more games.

[berelinde]

OP, the appearance of the HoF isn't free. It comes at the expense of resources that could be spent developing new characters and/or a new protagonist's story. Each and every zot spent to beat life into the dead horse that is the HoF is a zot taken away from something worthwhile.

 

I do not want a single zot spent on the HoF. The story is over. I want to let it go in order to allow more resources for horses that have not yet been beaten to dust.

 

I DO NOT WANT THE HoF. I am not confused. I do not misunderstand the proposal. I simply do not want to dump resources into something that's already done to death.

[Legion of 1337]

No. He died killing the archdemon like any good hero should. And he should remain dead.

[Dai Grepher]

By the sound of the letter, the Warden and Zevran are travelling together if in a romance.

 

I already chose his ending, by binding the soul of Urthemiel to his unborn child. Now he's living happily with his elven lover. If BW kills him off, I'd be fine... sad... but fine. Because, you can only cheat death so many times, before it catches up to ya.

 

The letter doesn't really imply that. Just that they each have their own battles. That could be separate or together. If the Origins epilogue is to be counted, then Zevran is dealing with the Crows. In which case they are separate for the time being.

 

Also, what about the mission involving that lord that the Crows track down? One option has Leliana contacting Zevran for help. Does that occur in a Zevran romance world state? If so, then the two are not together.

 

Binding the soul of Urthemiel to who's unborn child? Zevran's? Cuz, that's not an option.
 

BioWare might not kill him off. BioWare might bring him back, kind of like they did in DA2. Maybe he ends up being captured by Crows and taken away somewhere while your Hero chooses to pursue other things. That's my point here. BioWare could do anything it wants.

[esper]

No, they travel together. The letter outright say they are together and if romanced Zev's war table missions doesn't appear.

[Dai Grepher]

There are enough variables in this section here to create an entire game. The true fan fiction in this thread is that this is somehow "easy" to do. Each Origin has to be accounted for, every Keep decision has to be accounted for, and recognized, as relevant to whatever plot. Dialog has to be written to include each and every choice possible, and also, since you're going on to say a generic hero that wasn't involved in any of it, that includes none of it. So what you're looking at here could very well be a 2 minute conversation that has well over 100 variables to account for, for each individual protagonist. Note, they can't just write it for one, they have to write it for all of them, so there's not going to be a lot of actual gameplay, or there can't be a lot of dialog. Because the sheer volume of stuff that has to be accounted for that's just from the game/expansion and DLC is quite large.
 

Get a copy of Neverwinter Nights, they're really cheap nowadays. Sit down with the toolset and write all the possible variables out for a single conversation about the events that led up to the Battle of Denerim, and then get back to me about how easy it would be to implement. The list is quite extensive, if it wasn't there wouldn't have been all the issues with imports into DA 2, a system that does exactly what you're wanting here.
 

So to overcome your desire to have the Warden back, and appease everyone else, they'd essentially have to write an entirely different DLC with the same events. That you have no clue about how any of this works is fairly obvious, do some research into how complicated what you're calling for here really is, and get back to me.
 

The problem is, you can't have one w/out the other. You're sitting here telling us how easy it would be, when easy is the last thing it would be. The idea here is to show you just how complicated it really is to essentially write two different games/DLCs for a bit of fanservice on the Warden, because at the end of the day, that's all it would be, fanservice. As you can see reading through the thread, you didn't get the overwhelming support for a return you thought you'd get. For a lot of us, the Warden is dead to the US. Rather than spend a ton of time and money building a "Hey, for all of you that can't let go of the Warden" DLC, they could continue to expand on Inquisition, and perhaps start looking forward to the next game too.

However, I would like to see a rather short and sweet DLC for all those that can't let go of the Warden. It would tie directly in to the War Table mission in Inquisition, and would have the same level of canon that Legacy has:

In it, we get a letter that the HoF was found dead in the Deep Roads. We would go to investigate, and discover through HoF's journal that the "cure" for the taint failed, and accelerated their Calling, and they went out like any honorable Warden would, fighting darkspawn until they died.

Giving it Legacy level canon means that the events happen, whether you played it or not. That would mean that next Tuesday, when the next iteration of this thread appears, we could point to the official announcement that the Warden is dead, and cannot be involved in any more games.

 

I'll make a separate thread about this, but to quickly address this, there may be many variables in that section alone, but most of those can apply across all characters. So it's various elements going to every Hero type. That isn't difficult. Plus, none of these would need to be all that intricate. Each origin story has one last name for each, regardless of gender. So... origin story (first name last name) > rules (Ferelden/Amaranthine/Gwaren/Vigil's Keep/Soldier's Peak/Denerim Alienage/Nothing) > is in a romance with (Alistair/Anora/Morrigan/Zevran/Leliana) > and is doing (the cure quest, Deep Roads, Par'Volen, Antiva, Denerim Alienage, ruling Ferelden > and the Hero is doing these quests with (Alistair/Anora/Morrigan/Kieran/Zevran/Leliana/Sten/etc.)
 

Once these are selected, they would easily fit into a storyline about who the Hero is, who the Hero's lover(s) is/are, what the Hero rules over, what the Hero is up to, and who with. The only truly unique dialogues would come from questions about their families or their pasts.

 

Their thoughts on various issues could also be selected in Keep. Issues like the Warden order, or Orlais, or the Inquisition. All these answers could then be applied to all Heroes.

 

Not every Keep decision needs to be accounted for. Not every one is accounted for even in the Keep itself.

 

Yes, the generic fill-in would have none of those options, but that character would still have the same voice sets, personality types, and corresponding dialogues to various situations. That character would also have his/her own backstory.

 

You're blowing it way out of proportion. Writing the Hero into the story would be no different from writing in any companion character and all their variables.

 

I would challenge you to take a look at all the dialogue lines you get from a companion character in DA:I. There aren't all that many, especially with ones like Blackwall, Cole, or The Iron Bull.

 

And how will they expand on Inquisition? How will they account for "all those variables" with the Inquisitor? You think it's difficult to do for the Hero but not the Inquisitor. Why?

 

If the Hero dies like that, the series dies like that. Quick. Most of us would rather have the Hero's fate left to imagination rather than have a bull crap ending like that.

 

We aren't those who can't let the Hero go. We recognize that the Hero is crucial to the success and story of Dragon Age. We're actually trying to find a good way to implement the Hero into the next installment. What are you doing except complaining about those who are rooting for the series to get better?

[Dai Grepher]

OP, the appearance of the HoF isn't free. It comes at the expense of resources that could be spent developing new characters and/or a new protagonist's story. Each and every zot spent to beat life into the dead horse that is the HoF is a zot taken away from something worthwhile.

 

I do not want a single zot spent on the HoF. The story is over. I want to let it go in order to allow more resources for horses that have not yet been beaten to dust.

 

I DO NOT WANT THE HoF. I am not confused. I do not misunderstand the proposal. I simply do not want to dump resources into something that's already done to death.

 

Resources that can be reused in the same game for a possible new character if the Hero is left out of the game by the player. So it wouldn't be a wasted resource.

 

Don't want the Hero? Fine. Here's a new custom character. Don't want a new custom character? Fine. Pick your preset. All would use the same resource pool.
 

[Dai Grepher]

No. He died killing the archdemon like any good hero should. And he should remain dead.

 

And how would you feel if I told you that BioWare just announced that we will be visiting the tomb of the Warden who slayed the archdemon during the fifth blight, even if that Warden was the Hero of Ferelden?