459 réponses à ce sujet

[LonewandererD]

^Andranste_Rebron...... you have my attention

 

-D-

[KaiserShep]

Dragon Age 4: Wrath of the Pimp Hand.

Hate The Player Not The Game will be the best passive ability ever.

[AlexiaRevan]

Dragon Age 4: Wrath of the Pimp Hand.

DA4 : The Rise of Gamlen !

[cindercatz]

That's right. Every fan of Dragon Age wants the Hero of Ferelden to return in the next game, and yes that includes you. This is a fact that I will prove objectively.

 

No, this isn't another "Bring Back the Hero" thread, and no I am not going to apply the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

 

Notice I'm not posting this in the suggestions forum. This topic is to get a point across to the fans, not to BioWare. My intention is to convince YOU that the Hero's return is the only viable option, and one that you WANT to take place. It's just that many fans aren't aware of this... yet.

 

Other threads have proven how the Hero can return in the next game or expansion, but this thread proves WHY the Hero must return and why you want this to be so.

 

 

The Hero is too important now

 

The Hero's story is now too big and too crucial to the current events for the Hero to sit this next one out. The cure for the taint, Flemeth, Mythal's compulsion, Morrigan, the Grey Warden order, the remaining old god souls, the eluvians, any remaining darkspawn magisters, the remaining rifts, and possibly even the nature of red lyrium.

 

Those are just the plots that tie to EVERY living Hero. Now break this down into each Origin. Human noble has Highever, and possibly Denerim if the Hero is King or Queen. That means all the same issues that the other monarch has to deal with, and that includes relations with Orlais. Mage Heroes have the situation with the mages, templars, and Chantry. Elves have the story dealing with the Elven Pantheon, especially a Dalish Hero, who would also have the other Dalish clans to interact with. The dwarves have Orzammar and possibly Kal'Sharok to contend with. Now include the possible romances, such as with Morrigan or with Leliana (Victoria?). Now include the possibility of the Hero being the father of Kieran.

 

The Inquisition as an organization can only do so much. At some point it comes down to select individuals who set out in small parties to effect real change in the world and solve its problems up close and hands on.

 

 

Few others measure up

 

In the case of an expansion, the Inquisitor will need a new companion or two. Even if Leliana becomes Divine, allowing Cass and Vivi to stick around, and even if The Iron Bull becomes Tal Vashoth and Blackwall stays on board, there are people who will definitely leave eventually. Aside from the obvious example, Varric also leaves, as does Dorian. And really the only characters who will always stick around no matter what are Sera and Cole, and they can be dismissed or turned away during the game.

 

Now you might say that any expansion could just introduce new characters like Awakening did for the most part. But in this case they would have to explain how these new characters are on the same general level as the Inquisitor. With the Hero, no explanation is needed. We all know the Hero is on the level, and possibly even superior in combat skill to the Inquisitor. It's an easy and perfect fit.

 

Another point to consider here is how any new character would fit the storyline. Why are these new characters joining up with the Inquisitor and what do they bring to the table? Again, it's clear to see what the Hero offers. The cure to the taint, or at least a really good plan on how to obtain it, as well as knowledge about Flemeth, Morrigan, and the eluvian. Maybe the scrying ritual will even come up. Or hey, how about that Circle tower you remember having a talking psychic statue in its basement? Yeah, the Hero can get access to it. Need someone to help close rifts? The Hero did that a decade ago in the Blackmarsh and all without an anchor might I add. Need someone who has a lot of pull with the Wardens? Who better than the Warden-Commander of Ferelden? Need to go into the Fade? The Hero has been there at least twice.

 

Now I'm sure any expansion will still need to have some new characters to replace any that left the party at the end of Inquisition, and BioWare will have to think up reasons as to why these powerful characters didn't show themselves until now, but at least with the Hero the reason has already been revealed to us.

 

 

You're Hero has already returned

 

That's right. For all the grumbling about not wanting the Hero to return because "head canon", the fact of the matter is that Inquisition has already decided that your Hero returns to the world stage in order to search for a cure to the taint. Any romance you had, any throne you sat on, any family you started, all on hold. Whether you like it or not, Inquisition took control of your Hero and made it possible for the Inquisitor to make contact. At present, the Keep does not have a tile to indicate whether you followed through on that or not, so it's possible that this will be one of those forced decisions, as was the case with Awakening, Golems, or Witch Hunt. And I may be mistaken, but I think Inquisition does at least force the chore table mission "Contact the Hero of Ferelden" to appear, even if you don't complete it. So while you may be able to take a pass on contacting the Hero, it does at least show that the Hero's location is far west and that either Morrigan or Leliana can get ahold of the Hero if needed, and so can the Inquisition.

 

And what will the Hero do now? What will the Hero do after the cure is found? Ride off into the sunset? No. The Hero will use the cure accordingly, and that will likely involve whatever mischief the Grey Wardens are up to at Weisshaupt.

 

So, since the Hero has returned already and will likely be used in further storylines, wouldn't you rather have some control over what your Hero does and for what reasons?

 

 

Keep your options open

 

Let's put all this gameplay and storyline talk aside for a second and recognize the simple truth. Fans made a big deal about bringing the Hero back when Inquisition was first announced and BioWare asked what we would like to see in the next game. Lo and behold, we got our Hero back in some measure. The call for the Hero's return is even greater than it was before, and this call will only get louder now that the Hero has been given a quest that quite frankly seems a lot more interesting than most Inquisition quests. And face it, with all the remakes that are being produced nowadays, it's clear that people want things they are familiar with. For BioWare, this represents a safe, easy profit.

 

So it basically comes down to this. Get on board, or get left in the dust. If all you do is say you don't want the Hero to be in the next installment, BioWare will ignore you in favor of all the fans who want the Hero back, since this is the direction they're going with it anyway. What everyone here will benefit from is having you back in the discussion and submitting your feedback and suggestions on how to best implement the Hero's return. As has been suggested elsewhere, an option to not have the Hero in the game, but rather sit it out by player choice, could be an option for players who just want to let the Hero retire with dignity. To add on this suggestion, another option is to let the players choose how the Hero bows out. In this case YOU would actually get to decide where the Hero goes, who with, and why. The Hero's story ends on YOUR terms in this case.

 

That's why I write, keep your options open. The fact of the matter is that you want the Hero to return, even if it's just to decide how the Hero stays out of the way from now on.

 

It's like Varric says, if your favorite character in a book were to have an easy life, you'd stop reading. So the best way to end the Hero's story? Demand the Hero's return along with the option to decide the Hero's fate yourself. Or would you rather have BioWare choose it for you? Think about it, and imagine how well your head canon will hold up against that prospect. There will always be fans who will demand the Hero's story be covered, and BioWare will always cave in to those demands and write a story to placate these fans.

 

Who knows, maybe the option to choose how the Hero retires will be the only feature BioWare uses. Or maybe they return the Hero with everything the fans want, and the story will fit perfectly with everyone's head canons.

 

What was the main complaint against Hawke in DA2? That the Champion didn't really feel like our character. This complaint was amplified in Inquisition, where many fans complain that Hawke was made to say things that these players considered out of character. What were the complaints against the Inquisitor? That most of the interesting missions on the chore table could not be done directly by the Inquisitor. Most of these sentiments were based off of prior experience with how well Origins handled these issues. Well, the remedy for both is found in the Hero. Our character, taking on interesting missions.

 

Those who say they don't want the Hero back also complain about how their Hero was roped in to the cure quest. They say to let the Hero's story end on whatever note that was suggested in DA:O/A. But the only way to do that is to have the power put back in your hands, and then choose that ending yourself. For this, you need the Hero back. So whether you're aware of it or not, you do want the Hero back even if it's to end the Hero's story once and for all.

 

 

A noble end

 

Lastly, I want to appeal to your sense of honor. Even in world states where the Hero made the Ultimate Sacrifice, seeing the Hero respected for this would add a great deal of nostalgia and emotion to the game. It's said that something is happening with the Wardens at Weisshaupt. Going to Weisshaupt to investigate seems like the obvious choice. Who is buried there next to Garahel? The Ultimate Sacrifice Hero.

 

Imagine walking up to a tomb dedicated to the Fifth Blight. Inside, a massive chamber, with statues of Duncan and Riordan at the entrance. Paintings all around commemorating Ostagar and to some extent Cailan. Sculptures, artwork, and tapestries telling the story of who the Hero recruited and what the Hero did to save Ferelden from the blight as well as itself. And at the center, a coffin carved right into the stone, the banner of the Hero flying overhead. Cousland heraldry? Aducan? Amell? That would all be based on who your Hero was, but only if your Hero returns in some capacity. In this case, through the imported world state as a dead Hero lying in the sealed tomb at Weisshaupt. Maybe there's a statue of the Hero there as well.

 

So that's all I have for now. I think this is more than enough to prove my points. Please post your comments and tell me what you think of this.

Couldn't have said it better, except it obviously doesn't apply to every last person. There are apathetic people out there all about stubborn ass syndrome, who would prefer to ruin the story for the rest of us just because they're committed to a negative for no reason at all. Such is life. Those people are always out there. Everything else I see are just people that are either afraid it can't be done well (they'd enjoy it if proven wrong), or people apathetic because they didn't enjoy the character in the first place. All I can say to that last group is that this isn't Origins. You can make it an entirely new character if you want to, but either way, they'd be voiced, emotive (probably more than Quizzy), and engaged in an entirely new adventure with modern presentation values. This is a character you would define yourself, whether it's the HoF, the Orlesian Warden Commander, or an entirely new character. If you can't imagine that working, why are you here? We're talking about a layering on of what you already do with every character you create in every BioWare game you play. There's no great leap. There's no destroying your character. It's not pigeonholed like Hawke could be. We're not asking for generic.

 

People can naysay all they want, but if we're talking about actually doing it right, which we are, the vast majority of people would really enjoy the end result, whether they want to imagine it now or not. It doesn't matter if your Hero died, or you want them to ride off into the sunset, or you just want to play a new character, or you never even glanced at DA:O. You're covered. The idea is to erase all these massive plotholes and provide all these missing moments that should have been in Inquisition already, for those of us to whom it applies, while simultaneously providing an entirely new, complete BioWare experience for every player regardless of what camp you fall in. No matter who you are, this idea has got you covered. You're good.

 

So I hope people can understand that and stop trying to dismiss the issue.

 

edit for clarity: Talking about an expansion or dlc, not DA4.

[Toasted Llama]

Couldn't have said it better, except it obviously doesn't apply to every last person. There are apathetic people out there all about stubborn ass syndrome, who would prefer to ruin the story for the rest of us just because they're committed to a negative for no reason at all. Such is life. Those people are always out there. Everything else I see are just people that are either afraid it can't be done well (they'd enjoy it if proven wrong), or people apathetic because they didn't enjoy the character in the first place. All I can say to that last group is that this isn't Origins. You can make it an entirely new character if you want to, but either way, they'd be voiced, emotive (probably more than Quizzy), and engaged in an entirely new adventure with modern presentation values. This is a character you would define yourself, whether it's the HoF, the Orlesian Warden Commander, or an entirely new character. If you can't imagine that working, why are you here? We're talking about a layering on of what you already do with every character you create in every BioWare game you play. There's no great leap. There's no destroying your character. It's not pigeonholed like Hawke could be. We're not asking for generic.

 

People can naysay all they want, but if we're talking about actually doing it right, which we are, the vast majority of people would really enjoy the end result, whether they want to imagine it now or not. It doesn't matter if your Hero died, or you want them to ride off into the sunset, or you just want to play a new character, or you never even glanced at DA:O. You're covered. The idea is to erase all these massive plotholes and provide all these missing moments that should have been in Inquisition already, for those of us to whom it applies, while simultaneously providing an entirely new, complete BioWare experience for every player regardless of what camp you fall in. No matter who you are, this idea has got you covered. You're good.

 

So I hope people can understand that and stop trying to dismiss the issue.

 

edit for clarity: Talking about an expansion or dlc, not DA4.

OPINION.

ISN'T.

FACT.

Will BSN ever learn? xD

[AlanC9]

Of course it won't.

[cindercatz]

OPINION.

ISN'T.

FACT.

Will BSN ever learn? xD

And I'm not talking about opinions. I'm not giving you an opinion. I'm talking about possibilities. I'm describing what the idea actually is. And stop screaming at people like you actually have a legitimate point. Trying to dismiss any discussion of an idea because you don't have the imagination for it. Doesn't help your argument. I don't care for echo chambers.

[Dieb]

This is turning into quite the sh*tstorm. Three pages of "no" must be kind of hurtful.

 

I disagree with everything you said, but I think you're a wonderful person and hope you're having a great day.

[AlanC9]

And I'm not talking about opinions. I'm not giving you an opinion. I'm talking about possibilities. I'm describing what the idea actually is. And stop screaming at people like you actually have a legitimate point. Trying to dismiss any discussion of an idea because you don't have the imagination for it. Doesn't help your argument. I don't care for echo chambers.

You're describing what the idea is, and then saying that almost everyone would really like the idea. The latter isn't a fact, it's a prediction. Others here are predicting that the proposed feature will make the game somewhat worse than it otherwise would be, and don't want to see it tried.

[Abyss108]

How are all these things you mentioned important to my DEAD warden? 

[Hellion Rex]

What a load of crap, OP.

[cindercatz]

You're describing what the idea is, and then saying that almost everyone would really like the idea. The latter isn't a fact, it's a prediction. Others here are predicting that the proposed feature will make the game somewhat worse than it otherwise would be, and don't want to see it tried.

No, I'm saying those people would like the end result if done right, as described. Because the end result of this would be what you make it, and most people would make decisions consistent with what they want it to be, including whether the HoF is your character or not, present or not, and the details of that character, whoever you choose it to be. If anybody doesn't like their own idea of what they want to do with it, that's on them, but is there any world where that group wouldn't be a small minority? Seriously?

 

Then there's the actual gameplay, but it's DA:I dlc, so players would be a self selecting, where if you just can't stand DA:I, you'd be unlikely to buy it anyway.

 

You're right, I am making a specific prediction, but I'm not stating an opinion as fact. And I think it's a pretty sound prediction. Of course, they could always screw it up like anything else, but my assertion is it can be done right. You don't not do something just because there's the possibility you could screw up. We'd be paralyzed if we made decisions like that.

 

edit: better stated

[Toasted Llama]

No, I'm saying those people would like the end result if done right, as described.

Sh*t, I almost thought my own thoughts, preferences and opinions were my own and mine alone. Guess not then. My whole life was a lie!
 

Because the end result of this would be what you make it, and most people would make decisions consistent with what they want it to be, including whether the HoF is your character or not, present or not, and the details of that character, whoever you choose it to be. If anybody doesn't like their own idea of what they want to do with it, that's on them, but is there any world where that group wouldn't be a small minority? Seriously?

Do you know what allows players to do this?

Their own infinite imagination.

Do you know what DOESN'T allow players to do this?

Bioware pulling the strings with a DLC with limited resources and time.

Then there's the actual gameplay, but it's DA:I dlc, so players would be a self selecting, where if you just can't stand DA:I, you'd be unlikely to buy it anyway.

How is this even relevant to the return of the HoF?

 

You're right, I am making a specific prediction, but I'm not stating an opinion as fact. And I think it's a pretty sound prediction. Of course, they could always screw it up like anything else, but my assertion is it can be done right.

Your prediction is based on your own opinion, your own perspective. And it is not fact, cannot be used as fact.

 

You don't not do something just because there's the possibility you could screw up. We'd be paralyzed if we made decisions like that.

People make decisions based on the risk of loss to potential profit ratio. As of right now, since a large group of the fanbase is saying no, the previous lead writer for the franchise (including the HoF) left, the new lead writer has 0 interest in the HoF/Grey Wardens and because making all of your decisions matter and every single little personality choice affect the HoF costs a giantic amount of resources and money, Bioware is opting "no".

[Legion of 1337]

Every badass heroic Warden dies killing the Archdemon instead of pussying out and making someone else do it, or partaking in witchcraft to avoid death.

 

I don't want the Warden back. It fits the narrative better if they're dead.

[AlanC9]

You're right, I am making a specific prediction, but I'm not stating an opinion as fact. And I think it's a pretty sound prediction. Of course, they could always screw it up like anything else, but my assertion is it can be done right. You don't not do something just because there's the possibility you could screw up. We'd be paralyzed if we made decisions like that.

Sometime you're right to not do something. Some strategies aren't worth pursuing.

Remember, there are two different downsides to the proposal. One is a bad implementation that results in a negative payout-- character assassination, etc. The probability of a Bio failure here is significant, because we've seen Bio fail at this before. I agree that committing more resources to the implementation can reduce the failure chance. The problem is that the resource costs of the implementation are a downside in themselves.

All the proposals so far sound like they would make the game significantly worse for me. The upside of the proposal just doesn't generate enough value to cover the projected costs; since I won't derive very much value from bringing the Warden back, there's a cap on the upside. I'm actually best off with the cheapest implementation since I'm not particularly worried about character assassination, but other players score this stuff differently.

[jedidotflow]

You're Hero has already returned

 

What if it's an Hero?

 

[BountyhunterGER]

Well OP.. thanks for telling me what I want - I didn't know

 

because last time I checked I was against bringing the warden back!

[TormDK]

No thank you.

 

That story is concluded (My warden did the selfless sacrifice).

 

I would also not want the next ME game to feature Shepard in any form. His story is already told.

[duckley]

I have two HOFs. One is married to Alistair. I am sure in whatever footnote Bioware can provide, we will find out that the HOF found a cure and now she and Alistair are the proud parents of many children. A ruling dynasty for Fereldon is secure and they live happily ever after.

 

My other HOF has also found a cure and has return to live with Morrigan and Keiran. They live happily ever after.

 

Done and done!

[segurissima]

I know a lot of people who jumped into the Dragon Age universe with Inquisition, they have no idea about the lore, the story and the past characters. They still enjoy the game, and I think they couldn't care less about a hero who they did not even play ever. Even though the density of die hard fans ( like me) on the forums is higher, actually I think there are less people you would think who played previous games, compared to the total amount of people who played or plays it. Just my 2 cents, - i also would love to see the hero but it never gonna happen.

[Lumix19]

Wait is this thread serious? The title makes it seem like it isn't.

[TheChris92]

No, OP, I promise you. I really, really, really, don't want that.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

What a load of crap, OP.

 

OT but since this thread is doomed anyway, WHERE'S YOUR ICON FROM.