459 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Wait is this thread serious? The title makes it seem like it isn't.

The OP sometimes goes in for ridiculous hyperbole. But he means what he's saying.

[Il Divo]

No, I'm saying those people would like the end result if done right, as described. Because the end result of this would be what you make it, and most people would make decisions consistent with what they want it to be, including whether the HoF is your character or not, present or not, and the details of that character, whoever you choose it to be. If anybody doesn't like their own idea of what they want to do with it, that's on them, but is there any world where that group wouldn't be a small minority? Seriously?

 

Then there's the actual gameplay, but it's DA:I dlc, so players would be a self selecting, where if you just can't stand DA:I, you'd be unlikely to buy it anyway.

 

You're right, I am making a specific prediction, but I'm not stating an opinion as fact. And I think it's a pretty sound prediction. Of course, they could always screw it up like anything else, but my assertion is it can be done right. You don't not do something just because there's the possibility you could screw up. We'd be paralyzed if we made decisions like that.

 

edit: better stated

Decisions are made exactly based on that. It's cost vs. reward risk calculation. If you're saying sometimes risks outweigh the cost failure, sure. But it's ridiculous to think that you should never take negative consequences into account when deciding to pursue a given course of action. 

[Little Princess Peach]

A DLC where every Warden shall return. Yes, even those ones who died killing the Archdemon. Or didn't exist. 

 

There never will be a DLC featuring the Warden because of that. Some people don't have living Wardens. I'd say a good deal of people never played Origins. 

The wardens that died could be in the fade the Inquisitor goes to the fade and meets the dead hero of Ferelden and then the HOF helps out the Inquisitor for a short time like Hawke did

[cindercatz]

 

Sh*t, I almost thought my own thoughts, preferences and opinions were my own and mine alone. Guess not then. My whole life was a lie!
 

 

 

Do you know what allows players to do this?

Their own infinite imagination.

Do you know what DOESN'T allow players to do this?

Bioware pulling the strings with a DLC with limited resources and time.
 

 

How is this even relevant to the return of the HoF?

 

 

 

Your prediction is based on your own opinion, your own perspective. And it is not fact, cannot be used as fact.

 

 

 

People make decisions based on the risk of loss to potential profit ratio. As of right now, since a large group of the fanbase is saying no, the previous lead writer for the franchise (including the HoF) left, the new lead writer has 0 interest in the HoF/Grey Wardens and because making all of your decisions matter and every single little personality choice affect the HoF costs a giantic amount of resources and money, Bioware is opting "no".

 

In order: 

Did I ever say without a doubt that I knew what you were thinking? No I didn't. Do you have to like the idea? No you don't. Would the proposed dlc actually answer your concerns? Yes it should. I do think you fall in the "scared" camp, just because I don't see why you'd be so forceful about it in every HoF thread that comes up if you weren't. You're obviously invested for some reason or other.

 

Wrong. My infinite imagination completely conflicts with the entirety of DA:I. My headcanon and the game as it stands are completely incongruous. That's the point. A dlc done well could remedy that for me while dovetailing with your imagination just fine, and we'd both get new dlc that allows enough options to fit perfectly fine for both of us. So why are you so strongly against that? What do you want so badly in its place that you can't couch its existence?

 

Gameplay is more relevant to whether someone would actually enjoy the dlc than the optional return of the HoF, because if you don't want the HoF back, the dlc would allow you to replace them while you send the HoF off to headcanon land. Gameplay's the only thing that isn't entirely optional.

 

I never said it was fact. I made a prediction. And that (supposed) opinion, that is based on rational deduction, so not an opinion. My opinion, you can argue, is that the story doesn't make sense without the HoF's appearance, based on who my characters were and what they would do. Except that's not an opinion. It's a personal point of fact that may not apply to you. But a dlc that allowed for both scenarios could bridge that gap and clear up those plotholes.

 

You're making a false assumption of unreasonable expenditure and difficulty. Every HoF, as of DA:I, is in the same place doing the same thing. That's 90% of the potential expense right there. A couple voice options and some binary or trilateral decision points about what decisions were made (already in the keep) and another seperate set for why those decisions were made (character creation) would cover motivation. Again, 90% of that has no reason to even be referenced in any given dlc. The practical variance of any given line is no more or less per line or scene than the Inquisitor has now, with their race and background choices, and typical in-game reactivity. The number of tone and choice options available to DA:O Wardens was identical to that of the Inquisitor now. BioWare would, I'm sure, use the opportunity to iterate on player character presentation.

 

Think of the Warden, HoF or otherwise, as Inquisitor 2.0 if it helps. Because in terms of nuts and bolts, that's what it would be. It's not any more difficult or expensive than that. It'd even let them improve the formula for their next game, instead of having to remain completely consistent with the Inquisitor's presentation this cycle. It'd be slightly more involved to integrate them as an npc, like they should've done with Hawke. You'd have a longer questionaire, to allow for simulation of moment to moment player tonal choice, but it wouldn't be any harder than that. Just a little riskier, but that's where the magic's at.

 

edit: Clarifying

 

edit 2: I would like at least one unique LI/family scene per existing LI, and an alternate scene for replacement or unromanced Wardens, and we're talking expansion here, so a little bit of the Citadel treatment is part of the deal. You don't have to break the timeline. Scenes could easily be pre-situational flashbacks, say for a romanced King Alistair or Anora, or other characters that wouldn't likely be present. No reason for anybody to get left out.

[In Exile]

The answer is still no, but the title got a chuckle out of me. So good on you. 

[jedidotflow]

I'd rather see a hardcore, renegade GW companion that hates a DR HoF for surviving instead of dying as he was supposed to. 

[In Exile]

I'd rather see a hardcore, renegade GW companion that hates a DR HoF for surviving instead of dying as he was supposed to. 

 

If I were absolutely forced to write a continuing plot for the HOF after DA:O, I would follow a pariah plot (rather than what DA:A ended up doing with it). In the DR world, you are an absolute apostate to the order. They can't actually do anything to you publicly because that would out their secrets, but you are very much hunted and the GWs want to capture you and study you. Whereas in the Alistair/Loghain do the US version, you're mostly just an irrelevant footnote. 

 

But I like plots with underappreciated heroes who have to choose between saving the world and actually getting much recognition for it. I think those sacrifices are much more interesting than the ones where you don't have to live with your decision. 

[jedidotflow]

No.

 

*Sten Approves*

[WildOrchid]

No.

[jedidotflow]

[murder knifes snotty merchant]

 

PC: Well, that was unexpected.

 

Leliana: You don't know the half of it.

 

[HoF murder knifes Segritt]
 

PC: I... He kinda had it coming.

[GenericEnemy]

I really wish these threads would stop coming up and making us who just honestly, genuinely just want a tiny bit of closure on the HoF look bad. :/

[AtreiyaN7]

Short(ish) answer: no - I just want to know if she finds a cure for that little problem, but hey, you can do that with another letter or a messenger.

[cindercatz]

Sometime you're right to not do something. Some strategies aren't worth pursuing.

Remember, there are two different downsides to the proposal. One is a bad implementation that results in a negative payout-- character assassination, etc. The probability of a Bio failure here is significant, because we've seen Bio fail at this before. I agree that committing more resources to the implementation can reduce the failure chance. The problem is that the resource costs of the implementation are a downside in themselves.

All the proposals so far sound like they would make the game significantly worse for me. The upside of the proposal just doesn't generate enough value to cover the projected costs; since I won't derive very much value from bringing the Warden back, there's a cap on the upside. I'm actually best off with the cheapest implementation since I'm not particularly worried about character assassination, but other players score this stuff differently.

I don't see much extra cost, but I went over it in the last post. The upside if you don't care about the HoF, I'd try to sell you on, is a full expansion with a new character, a new adventure in new places, with a new party (with a few returning series favorites), in an upgraded, next level iteration of DA:I, with just as much content whether you play the HoF or not. There's no rule that says the story has to be all about the Warden cure, or spend a lot of time in the Deep Roads or whatever. Who knows what the story entails? It's as wide open as any other potential expansion, with the added benefit of potential major franchise storytelling moments for those of us that care for them, and a complete adventure for everyone with other new big new moments for everyone.

 

edit: In short, if you don't want the HoF, don't get hung up on the HoF, because you'd have a big shiny new full featured expansion either way. HoF optional.

 

edit: @GenericEnemy 

..Or look enthusiastic, innovative, smart, and independent. Depends on your attitude.

[AlanC9]

You're making a false assumption of unreasonable expenditure and difficulty. Every HoF, as of DA:I, is in the same place doing the same thing. That's 90% of the potential expense right there. A couple voice options and some binary or trilateral decision points about what decisions were made (already in the keep) and another seperate set for why those decisions were made (character creation) would cover motivation. Again, 90% of that has no reason to even be referenced in any given dlc. The practical variance of any given line is no more or less per line or scene than the Inquisitor has now, with their race and background choices, and typical in-game reactivity. The number of tone and choice options available to DA:O Wardens was identical to that of the Inquisitor now. BioWare would, I'm sure, use the opportunity to iterate on player character presentation.

But you're layering a second set of reactivity on top of the existing reactivity, right. That still strikes me as a substantial cost, especially when you talk about going Citadel with the DLC. Whether the expenditure is "unreasonable" depends on the expected payout of adding the feature. Of course it's going to look reasonable to you, since you really want the Warden back. And for those of us who don't?

Though I think you're on the right general track with the argument. You're not going to sell people on bringing the Warden back being a good thing, but you might be able to sell some of them on the feature not doing enough damage to be worth opposing.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I hope she disappears again on the quest of finding a cure to the Calling and stays lost forever.

Maker no.

Short(ish) answer: no - I just want to know if she finds a cure for that little problem, but hey, you can do that with another letter or a messenger.

This is all I hope for, really. Just don't leave it hanging there. And then leave my Warden and all those close to her alone so I can well and truly move on from this whole plot point.

[AlanC9]

I don't see much extra cost, but I went over it in the last post. The upside if you don't care about the HoF, I'd try to sell you on, is a full expansion with a new character, a new adventure in new places, with a new party (with a few returning series favorites), in an upgraded, next level iteration of DA:I, with just as much content whether you play the HoF or not. There's no rule that says the story has to be all about the Warden cure, or spend a lot of time in the Deep Roads or whatever. Who knows what the story entails? It's as wide open as any other potential expansion, with the added benefit of potential major franchise storytelling moments for those of us that care for them, and a complete adventure for everyone with other new big new moments for everyone.

This is starting to sound like pure magical thinking. There's not going to be any such expansion.

[Iakus]

No, I'm saying those people would like the end result if done right, as described. Because the end result of this would be what you make it, and most people would make decisions consistent with what they want it to be, including whether the HoF is your character or not, present or not, and the details of that character, whoever you choose it to be. If anybody doesn't like their own idea of what they want to do with it, that's on them, but is there any world where that group wouldn't be a small minority? Seriously?

 

And I don't trust it to be done right.  Not as you described it, not in any way I have yet heard.  I want my Warden's fate to be left to my imagination.  I don't want a heroic end.  I don't want a last adventure.  My Wardens already saved Thedas once.  That's plenty.

 

Heck I didn't even want Hawke to make an appearance.  I certainly didn't want him to leave Merrill behind in Kirkwall, especially after Varric said she stayed at his side.

 

 

Then there's the actual gameplay, but it's DA:I dlc, so players would be a self selecting, where if you just can't stand DA:I, you'd be unlikely to buy it anyway.

 

Gameplay has nothing to do with it:  it's story.  I'm happy with how my Wardens' stories ended, and I don't want to disturb that.  Give me new characters, and new companions, to go with the new stories.

[Revan Reborn]

Too bad none of this actually matters since half the community has a dead Warden due to the Ultimate Sacrifice. Face the facts and recognize the Warden will not be returning. David Gaider, lead writer and authority on all things Dragon Age, has already explicitly said the Warden is not coming back, getting another game, getting any kind of DLC, or any other nonsense. His/her minor presence in DAI was purely fan service for those whose Warden actually lived either because of the dark ritual or they sacrificed another warden. The same will be the case of Hawke, who the player could either choose to live or die. Hawke's role in Thedas is now over and he/she will not return.

 

The only character that matters at all at this point is the Inquisitor. Knowing Gaider, he'll likely jump to a new hero and the Inquisitor will become irrelevant. That has been the trend of Dragon Age, unlike Mass Effect. Better get used to it...

[Qilune]

I think Bioware would only bring back the Warden if it meant they got to kill them. I'm sure they hate having to fudge over writing about the Hero of Ferelden in all their media in order to appease fans/readers.

[In Exile]

This is starting to sound like pure magical thinking. There's not going to be any such expansion.

 

You're just being negative. I think Bioware would be ecstatic about the possibility of making two games but selling them for the price of one. Undercharging for content is one of the dreams of a publicly traded company... right? 

[AlanC9]

I think Bioware would only bring back the Warden if it meant they got to kill them. I'm sure they hate having to fudge over writing about the Hero of Ferelden in all their media in order to appease fans/readers.

This is a real possibility. You want closure, you'll get it.

[Yriss]

I'll just add my "No" here and then leave this thread.

[Iakus]

I think Bioware would only bring back the Warden if it meant they got to kill them. I'm sure they hate having to fudge over writing about the Hero of Ferelden in all their media in order to appease fans/readers.

If Bioware Sheparded my Warden I would be...unhappy...

[Duelist]

I'm pretty sure this dead horse has been thoroughly flogged by now.

On topic:

[ruggly]

No, I'd rather they move forward with the DA series.