81 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Homebody]

It seems that Dragon Age: Inquisition turned out to be financial succes. And it won some GotY awards. However is it a good game? My first impressions were extremely positive. However long-term perspective changed my perception dramatically. It is beautifull game with a lot of potential but it is not a good game.

 

DA:I has horrible amount of flaws but it is not a place for detailed review. Let's just say that I can accept dozens of its separate disadvantages. The biggest problem however is the overall structure of this game focused on boring fetch quests, gathering plants/stones/shards/bottles/other crap and war table "reading missions". DA:I has the worst parts of MMO and Elder Scrolls games and there is very little storytelling compared to all these fillers.

 

One thing I love about most of Bioware games is their high potential of replayability. I can create different protagonists, make different choices, use different abilities, shape relationships with companions differently. Or I can experience the same "version of the story" again if it is enough memorable and engaging. Boring fillers however do not encourage me to return to the game. Quite the opposite.

 

There is nothing that can be done about DA:I at this point. ME "4" is different matter. I am saying this because one thing worries me: return of the Mako. Fillers were always part Bioware games to some degree (like horrible fetch quests in ME 3). Mako however was definitely the worst, the most boring, the most meaningless  and unfortunatelly the biggest part of ME 1. It is too soon to judge but I'm afraid that next ME is going in the same direction as DA:I.

 

"Success" of DA:I may be short-lived. For me after over 150 exhausting hours mostly filled with meaningless fetch quests it is the biggest disappointment of years. Please don't go this route. Focus on what matters: main storyline, protagonist, companions, combat. Focus on quality, not quantity.

[Undead Han]

While I think DA:I is a good game, I do agree that it does have some significant flaws that shouldn't make it into the next Mass Effect game. The transition to a partly open world format was not an entirely successful one for Bioware. Those massive maps, while beautiful, are all too often filled with MMOish quests that add little story, character, or atmosphere to the game world you are exploring. All too often progressing through the side content is a monotonous chore only tolerated so that you can gain the next level to start a major story mission. The lack of cinematic conversations with most NPCs, probably at least in part a consequence of the transition to a partially open world format, also serves to make the game world less immersive than previous Dragon Age games or the Mass Effect series.

 

Somewhere along the line Bioware seems to have lost sight of the fact that the popularity of their games rests largely on the interesting characters that filled their game worlds, and instead with DA:I the game world rather than the people who live within it seems to be the main focus. Bioware should stick to what they do best rather than trying to be Bethesda. Hopefully with ME:Next we'll get a solid Mass Effect title rather than Skyrim in space.

[Soultaker08]

Totally agree, especially with the replayability part.

 

I just cant bring myself to play DA:I anymore because i just dont wanna do all those fetch quests again, even just gathering the points for the main missions is so frustrating.

 

had two and a half playthroughs by now. The first took me about 25 hours, the second about 16, the last one i dont think will finish anytime soon because i cant bring myself to go around running meaningless errands or closing one rift after the other.

 

DA:I is not a bad game, it simply feels the quantity isnt filled with fleshed out content.

[Iakus]

I'll take the mistakes of DAI over the mistakes of ME3 any day.

 

DAI is way more replayable.

[Tex]

Well I personally liked both well inqusition let's me play somthing other than human so for me atleast it wins my choice for better game. That being said I Am really happy they've bought back the mako if they let us have playable races then and only then will mass effect be better than dragon age but that's my opinion.

[Mr. Homebody]

Somewhere along the line Bioware seems to have lost sight of the fact that the popularity of their games rests largely on the interesting characters that filled their game worlds, and instead with DA:I the game world rather than the people who live within it seems to be the main focus. Bioware should stick to what they do best rather than trying to be Bethesda. Hopefully with ME:Next we'll get a solid Mass Effect title rather than Skyrim in space.

 

In my personal opinion Elder Scrolls games are rather boring sandboxes with lack of engaging storyline. I hope that Mass Effect series will stay as far away from Skyrim as possible. But then again, I've seen on my own eyes what happened to Dragon Age. And there is the question...what does return of Mako mean? More focus on storytelling? Probably not.

 

I just cant bring myself to play DA:I anymore because i just dont wanna do all those fetch quests again, even just gathering the points for the main missions is so frustrating.

 

had two and a half playthroughs by now. The first took me about 25 hours, the second about 16, the last one i dont think will finish anytime soon because i cant bring myself to go around running meaningless errands or closing one rift after the other.

 

You have finished DA:I in 25 hours? Wow...that was fast. I assume that you have skipped all fillers. I have over 150 hours on my meter. But then I am (or was...) horrible completionist when it comes to Bioware games...even if that hurts (and DA:I hurts a lot). It shows however very clearly, how badly designed are proportions between main story and all these fillers in this game.

 

I'll take the mistakes of DAI over the mistakes of ME3 any day.

 

DAI is way more replayable.

 

Seriously? I mean, ME 3 has its flaws (like fetch quests and perhaps not enough satisfying ending) but I can play this game frequently (as well as ME 2, less in the case of ME 1 because of "Mako parts"). But DA:I....one thought about all these weeds, shards and pile of fetch quests prevents me from playing it again. 

 

Well I personally liked both well inqusition let's me play somthing other than human so for me atleast it wins my choice for better game. That being said I Am really happy they've bought back the mako if they let us have playable races then and only then will mass effect be better than dragon age but that's my opinion.

 

To be honest I perceive race selection in DA:I as drawback. Why? Not just because I mostly play as human. Also because quality and quantity do not mix well. You can play as elf, dwarf or even Qunari but does it really feels like your protagonist is part of these cultures? Despite minor details it is still the same route. And the price is high...let's be honest, Inquisitor is rather bland and forgettable protagonist.

 

And implementing race selection could be even harder in Mass Effect. Elves, dwarves and even Qunari are still similar to humans. It is very different with Krogans, Turians or Salarians. Therefore I hope Bioware will stick with human protagonist. Quality is better.

[Iakus]

 

 

Seriously? I mean, ME 3 has its flaws (like fetch quests and perhaps not enough satisfying ending) but I can play this game frequently (as well as ME 2, less in the case of ME 1 because of "Mako parts"). But DA:I....one thought about all these weeds, shards and pile of fetch quests prevents me from playing it again. 

 

Yes, seriously.  I don't have to do all those fetch quests, or gather those shards.  Heck ME1 had similar quests, and I only gathered all those turian insignias and matriarch writings like once.

 

But I can play DAI and not go "well that was a hundred wasted hours" which is not something I can say about ME3.  It's ending goes beyond unsatisfying.  It's the apple that rots the barrel.

[Mr. Homebody]

Yes, seriously.  I don't have to do all those fetch quests, or gather those shards.  Heck ME1 had similar quests, and I only gathered all those turian insignias and matriarch writings like once.

 

But I can play DAI and not go "well that was a hundred wasted hours" which is not something I can say about ME3.  It's ending goes beyond unsatisfying.  It's the apple that rots the barrel.

 

Fetch quests, shards and other crap are optional indeed. However I'm playing Bioware games on high difficulty settings (exploring combat strategies is one of the thing I like). Therefore it is highly appropriate to be able to maximise potential of my protagonist and his squad. That requires XP point. And unfortunately there are a lot of XP points buried under all these boring fillers.

 

I can play on normal or even easy but in this way any strategies will become irrelevant and I would feel that my playthrough is somehow "incomplete".

 

Well, we have clearly different perspective on ME 3 ending. It was definitely disappointing but didn't ruin entire game for me.

[Winterking]

 

 

You have finished DA:I in 25 hours? Wow...that was fast. I assume that you have skipped all fillers. I have over 150 hours on my meter. But then I am (or was...) horrible completionist when it comes to Bioware games...even if that hurts (and DA:I hurts a lot). It shows however very clearly, how badly designed are proportions between main story and all these fillers in this game.

 

I suffer from the same problem. Everytime I start a ME1 playthrough I tell myself only to play a few sidequests and focus on the main storyline and then I find myself only needing one rare earth to complete the UNC: Valuable minerals. 

[wright1978]

Yeah i really hope they don't follow DAI in terms of repeating the cast dominance of grind and fetch open world at expense of story.

Exploration and the Mako shouldn't have to equate to this. Let's see great story content and limited fetch instead.

[Farangbaa]

Disagree. I finished DA:I 6 times.

And seriously, that complaining about the filler quests. You guys honestly haven't found out you can just buy influence and power?

Farm some influence in the beginning, get to Skyhold, reach level 6 and you never have to do anything again.

And it's miles, no... lightyears better than those empty planets we got in ME1.
 

I'm not sure how much of a success DAI was. They said "best launch" (not sure what that means), but it never hit the top 10 on NDP reports. So if it was a best launch, it didn't mean much within the context of any other best selling game in the past 6 months.

We're talking RPG here. Only RPG that hits top 10 is Pokemon.

[Shechinah]

(to StreetMagic) We have had at least one thread going in the Inquisition section where it was said and I believed it was also linked to a place where EA confirmed that they were happy with Inquisition, at the very least, financially.

 

There are no credible charts regarding the sales avaliable as far as I know but it seems financially Inquisition was a success.    

[Mr. Homebody]

I suffer from the same problem. Everytime I start a ME1 playthrough I tell myself only to play a few sidequests and focus on the main storyline and then I find myself only needing one rare earth to complete the UNC: Valuable minerals. 

 

I suppose it is bad side of being completionist. 

 

Yeah i really hope they don't follow DAI in terms of repeating the cast dominance of grind and fetch open world at expense of story.

Exploration and the Mako shouldn't have to equate to this. Let's see great story content and limited fetch instead.

 

Agree. In DA:I main plot gets blurred in the sea of meaningless fillers. Reverse of priorities is highly needed in next Bioware games. Starting from next Mass Effect.

 

Disagree. I finished DA:I 6 times.

And seriously, that complaining about the filler quests. You guys honestly haven't found out you can just buy influence and power?

Farm some influence in the beginning, get to Skyhold, reach level 6 and you never have to do anything again.

And it's miles, no... lightyears better than those empty planets we got in ME1.
 

 

Good for you. Perhaps some day I will be able to play DA:I again too.

 

Personally, I never had any problem with lack of influence or power. Unfortunately skipping fetch quests has other consequences, especially on nightmare difficulty.

 

I wouldn't say it's better than empty planets in ME 1. Visually more attractive? Yes, no doubt. However beautiful pile of fetch quests is still just pile of fetch quests.

[Torgette]

I marathoned 1-3 this year having taken 3 years off from everything related to mass effect and yeah the Mako sections haven't aged well. That also said having played DAI last year to an absurd level (max lvl, 240 spare power after finishing the main quest) having a vehicle to explore in was a HUGE breath of fresh air! It's very possible to make exploration fun in ME even if DAI fell flat. Of course the bigger problem I had with DAI was the main quest itself never paid off... Bioware needs an ME1-style payoff for ME4.

[Forsakentale]

After playing the trilogy for the second time I REALLY didn't mind those planet scans fetch quests on ME3, I actually enjoyed finding war assets, bringing things to NPCs that made difference (to them and to the my war assets in general) and it was something to do that made the game keep going for a bit longer when I really didn't want the story to end.

 

The fact that those fetch quests weren't obligatory should've given people option to just not do it if they don't like that kind of stuff.

 

 

In my personal opinion Elder Scrolls games are rather boring sandboxes with lack of engaging storyline. I hope that Mass Effect series will stay as far away from Skyrim as possible. But then again, I've seen on my own eyes what happened to Dragon Age. And there is the question...what does return of Mako mean? More focus on storytelling? Probably not.

 

Totally agree with the ES part. The best thing about Bioware games is the interactions. All out squad mates in ME series and our party on DA seem to be really there, so even when I'm down on ME1 exploring a creepy planet, I feel like there's more to it than just scenarios, while playing Skyrim, in my experience, was a lonely and bland thing to do even when I had a companion with me.

 

But I'm pretty sure BioWare's team is aware of the Mako's flaws and how running around an entire planet just to find a big ass rock to mine was REALLY boring. So I'm curious as to what we are getting with the Mako back...

 

And as long as they don't bring that paper firewalker thing, I'm good.

[Mr. Homebody]

After playing the trilogy for the second time I REALLY didn't mind those planet scans fetch quests on ME3, I actually enjoyed finding war assets, bringing things to NPCs that made difference (to them and to the my war assets in general) and it was something to do that made the game keep going for a bit longer when I really didn't want the story to end.

 

The fact that those fetch quests weren't obligatory should've given people option to just not do it if they don't like that kind of stuff.

 

Personally I hate fetch quests in ME 3. Shepard is an alliance marine and not some creep who eavesdrops conversations just to get some delivery fetch quest. The same problem exists in Dragon Age series too. Every Bioware protagonist may be "bad ass" in theory and yet has to work as delivery guy for some reason. 

 

Fetch quest are optional only while playing on low difficulty settings. On nightmare/insane skipping it may have painful consequences.

 

Totally agree with the ES part. The best thing about Bioware games is the interactions. All out squad mates in ME series and our party on DA seem to be really there, so even when I'm down on ME1 exploring a creepy planet, I feel like there's more to it than just scenarios, while playing Skyrim, in my experience, was a lonely and bland thing to do even when I had a companion with me.

 

But I'm pretty sure BioWare's team is aware of the Mako's flaws and how running around an entire planet just to find a big ass rock to mine was REALLY boring. So I'm curious as to what we are getting with the Mako back...

 

Agree about squad members. I love this part of Bioware games because it is part of engaging storytelling. I also love combat because it is part of engaging gameplay. However "exploring" boring lifeless spaces is neither of them. I will be fine as long as Mako will be only small part of the game. However these news about hundreds randomly generated planets.....it looks rather pessimistic.

 

DA:I removed my desire for "exploration" completely.

[Torgette]

 

Personally I hate fetch quests in ME 3. Shepard is an alliance marine and not some creep who eavesdrops conversations just to get some delivery fetch quest. The same problem exists in Dragon Age series too. Every Bioware protagonist may be "bad ass" in theory and yet has to work as delivery guy for some reason. 

 

Fetch quest are optional only while playing on low difficulty settings. On nightmare/insane skipping it may have painful consequences.

 

 

Agree about squad members. I love this part of Bioware games because it is part of engaging storytelling. I also love combat because it is part of engaging gameplay. However "exploring" boring lifeless spaces is neither of them. I will be fine as long as Mako will be only small part of the game. However these news about hundreds randomly generated planets.....it looks rather pessimistic.

 

DA:I removed my desire for "exploration" completely.

 

 

I actually enjoyed exploring the maps themselves in DAI more than say... Oblivion or Fallout 3, but my problem with DAI's exploration was: 1) there's too many enemies, you're constantly running into something trying to kill you or a rift to close, it bogs things down; 2) there's too many camps to setup/items to fetch/landmarks to mark/etc.; 3) there's too much terrain that you have to cheese-jump to get around; 4) all of the above makes horses pointless except on one map.

 

Effectively they gave you too much stuff to do and it got in the way of the enjoyment of the open world itself. On the otherhand because we get to use a vehicle in Mass Effect and because combat encounters typically require more range due to guns, I can see Mass Effect not having the claustrophobic feel to exploration even if they translated everything over from DAI 1:1 (which I don't believe will happen anyways, loot in ME has never meant as much as in DA).

[Forsakentale]

 

Personally I hate fetch quests in ME 3. Shepard is an alliance marine and not some creep who eavesdrops conversations just to get some delivery fetch quest. The same problem exists in Dragon Age series too. Every Bioware protagonist may be "bad ass" in theory and yet has to work as delivery guy for some reason. 

 

Fetch quest are optional only while playing on low difficulty settings. On nightmare/insane skipping it may have painful consequences.

 

 

Agree about squad members. I love this part of Bioware games because it is part of engaging storytelling. I also love combat because it is part of engaging gameplay. However "exploring" boring lifeless spaces is neither of them. I will be fine as long as Mako will be only small part of the game. However these news about hundreds randomly generated planets.....it looks rather pessimistic.

 

DA:I removed my desire for "exploration" completely.

 

 

About the Shepard is a badass and shouldn't bother with small things... To me, during the experience of playing the games (as a paragon), THAT was what made Shepard so popular, so big in the eyes of people. Shepard was the big person who thought every action matters. The crew and the population followed and respected them, because, yeah, if the body of your spouse was found during an exploration the Commander took time to get you the letter or take your squad of a doomed planet.

 

But you know, that's the was I saw paragon Shep. I know that doesn't change anything for those who dislike the mechanics of it.

[AlanC9]

Personally I hate fetch quests in ME 3. Shepard is an alliance marine and not some creep who eavesdrops conversations just to get some delivery fetch quest.

Of course, you don't have to actually do any eavesdropping. Though that would mean that it's fairly odd that Shepard alsays knows where to go with the stuff he finds.

[ColGali]

 

It seems that Dragon Age: Inquisition turned out to be financial succes. And it won some GotY awards. However is it a good game? My first impressions were extremely positive. However long-term perspective changed my perception dramatically. It is beautifull game with a lot of potential but it is not a good game.

 

 

The underlined part is exactly the reason why they are going to follow that route again. And again... and again...

Probably there is going to be a short and mediocre story, boring and one dimensional NPCs, illusion of making chocies, and a main character you can not emotionally be attached to. In return you will have a huge world to wander around and you will be able to collect a lot of meaningless things for random characters. 

 

I honestly hope that I am wrong, but this is what I can expect after DAI (game of the year...).

[Mr. Homebody]

1) there's too many enemies, you're constantly running into something trying to kill you or a rift to close, it bogs things down;

2) there's too many camps to setup/items to fetch/landmarks to mark/etc.;

3) there's too much terrain that you have to cheese-jump to get around;

4) all of the above makes horses pointless except on one map.

 

1) Agree, every five steps some angry bear was trying to assassinate my Inquisitor. Very exhausting after some time.

2) There are  too many unnecessary fillers of various kind in this game.

3) For the Maker, don't remind me of this horrible jumping mechanic...it is so much connected to shards, these nightmarish SHARDS !

4) Choose between useless lazy horse and companions...Dragon Age is a game about choices and consequences after all.

 

About the Shepard is a badass and shouldn't bother with small things... To me, during the experience of playing the games (as a paragon), THAT was what made Shepard so popular, so big in the eyes of people. Shepard was the big person who thought every action matters. The crew and the population followed and respected them, because, yeah, if the body of your spouse was found during an exploration the Commander took time to get you the letter or take your squad of a doomed planet.

 

But you know, that's the was I saw paragon Shep. I know that doesn't change anything for those who dislike the mechanics of it.

 

So basically Shep became popular because of his/her tendency to sneaking around random strangers, secretly discovering their desires and fulfilling their dreams?

 

I love roleplay aspect and I like paragon Shepard. However there is nothing about role playing in fetch quests. It is just a filler.

 

Of course, you don't have to actually do any eavesdropping. Though that would mean that it's fairly odd that Shepard alsays knows where to go with the stuff he finds.

 

Well, I would prefer for my protagonist to simply...engage in conversations.

[JCFR]

Disagree. I finished DA:I 6 times.

Great for you. I completed it about 4 and a half times and i can only agree with the OP. DA:I is the pinnacle of quantity over quality (a disturbing trend Bioware seems to take since DA2).

And seriously, that complaining about the filler quests. You guys honestly haven't found out you can just buy influence and power?

Great. You could buy it. So what? I never bought a single bit of Power and always end up with about 200 which i can't use on anything. And the point isn't that you "have" to do that grinding of fetching quest, it is that there isn't anything else on those giant maps to do.
Only: go there get this, go there find that, go there kill those.
NOTHING ELSE!
And if you wanted a high-level-char (maybe because you want to get immersed with your character or because you play on high difficulty) then you still had to do those fetch-quests just for the XP.

It's lazy Quest-design at it's fullest. Not sandboxing enough to compete with skyrim and with a world, so shallow, it reminds me of any MMO.
Is it better than DA2? Yes, but not near as good as Origins.

Farm some influence in the beginning, get to Skyhold, reach level 6 and you never have to do anything again.

And it's miles, no... lightyears better than those empty planets we got in ME1.

Oh, don't get me started on Skyhold. A useless hub with useless upgrades and full of useless NPCs. Not even a single siege.

And by the way, to me DA:I seemed like the rebirth of ME1. Terrible Quest-design (except of Main-story), an abomination of an inventory, bulky controls, lack of tactical combat, oversized maps with nothing of interest in them and Main-Story-quests wich require to grind XP.
All of that in ME1 and all of that in DA:I.

We're talking RPG here. Only RPG that hits top 10 is Pokemon.

First:If we talk about top sellers in RPG, then Skyrim takes the throne with over 20 million copies sold.

Second: Don't call DA:I a RPG! It's Rpg-light - seriously! With no attribute-points, no passive- or non-combat skills and no high-diverging class-builds and even an UI with room for only eight skills i would say Inquisition just barely qualifies as Rpg.
It's as basic as it gets... or, in my mind, dumbed down.

As for ME4: I really, really hope, Bioware leanrs from it's failures... but somehow i doubt. To me, it seems they go more and more mainstream and take less risks, translating as creating featureless AAA-titles, instead of improving and adding up on existing concepts. They really have to blow my mind to get me hyped once more.
Right now, i'm looking more forward to the Witcher 3.

[Mr. Homebody]

And if you wanted a high-level-char (maybe because you want to get immersed with your character or because you play on high difficulty) then you still had to do those fetch-quests just for the XP.

 

Exactly. All these fillers in DA:I are optional only in theory. I am playing Bioware games on high difficulty settings. Therefore I can't just skip boring meaningless fetch quests or ignore all these elf roots and other weeds. Even if I could, wouldn't it be better to simply change overall structure of the whole game?. To simply focus on quality of storytelling instead of quantity of unnecessary fillers?

 

Don't call DA:I a RPG! It's Rpg-light - seriously! With no attribute-points, no passive- or non-combat skills and no high-diverging class-builds and even an UI with room for only eight skills i would say Inquisition just barely qualifies as Rpg.
It's as basic as it gets... or, in my mind, dumbed down.

 

It depends on what you understand by "RPG" term. I have different opinion on this. For me roleplaying games are about, well, playing the role. This includes all visible aspects like appearance, clothes/armor, class and most importantly personality. "Hidden parts" like attributes or passive skills are far less important for me.