37 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

I will honestly tell you Howe wouldn't have. He wouldn't risk Loghain's wrath. And if you tell him you're there to save her, Howe basically tells you "the queen does so love her games" or something like that, meaning even he thinks you're "saving" her on fluffed up reasons even Howe obviously thinks are full of crap. If he reacted different I might believe you, but even Howe backs up the idea that she was just toying with you.

 

Why?  Because Howe is such a paragon of virtue and honesty?  You don't think he's sneaky enough to try something behind Loghain's back?  Even Gaider said he wasn't as 'under control' as Loghain thought he was and got away with a lot of dirty things behind Loghain's back (including stealing from the nation's treasury).

 

It seems you have your mind made up that Anora is full of rubbish and no amount of argument on my part is going to change that.  And that's all well and good, everyone has their own perceptions of characters in the game. Since you consider the word of a man like Howe more reliable than Anora, I extremely doubt anything I could say at this point would budge you from this stance.

[andy6915]

Why?  Because Howe is such a paragon of virtue and honesty?  You don't think he's sneaky enough to try something behind Loghain's back?  Even Gaider said he wasn't as 'under control' as Loghain thought he was and got away with a lot of dirty things behind Loghain's back (including stealing from the nation's treasury).

 

It seems you have your mind made up that Anora is full of rubbish and no amount of argument on my part is going to change that.  And that's all well and good, everyone has their own perceptions of characters in the game. Since you consider the word of a man like Howe more reliable than Anora, I extremely doubt anything I could say at this point would budge you from this stance.

 

How is "not so subtle, no?". If he thought it was just a game Anora was playing, he would say so pretty bluntly. Which he does, he even calls her a b!tch. This is Howe we're talking about, he is as subtle as a firework. If he thought we were actually there to rescue her, he would actually react to that instead of saying she loves to play games. He would have no cause to lie there, since the way he sees it he's going to kill you anyway as soon as the talking is over.

 

Anora talks about it being a test of character and her playing you, Howe talks about how she's playing you, Loghain talks about how she was playing you... What more do you need? It seems you have your mind made up, when 3 different people are all telling you the same damn thing. Seems you just don't like to entertain the idea that she was playing you like an instrument, because that is demeaning to you.

[dragonflight288]

How is "not so subtle, no?". If he thought it was just a game Anora was playing, he would say so pretty bluntly. Which he does, he even calls her a b!tch. This is Howe we're talking about, he is as subtle as a firework. If he thought we were actually there to rescue her, he would actually react to that instead of saying she loves to play games. He would have no cause to lie there, since the way he sees it he's going to kill you anyway as soon as the talking is over.

 

Anora talks about it being a test of character and her playing you, Howe talks about how she's playing you, Loghain talks about how she was playing you... What more do you need? It seems you have your mind made up, when 3 different people are all telling you the same damn thing. Seems you just don't like to entertain the idea that she was playing you like an instrument, because that is demeaning to you.

 

Yes, Mr. Subtle-as-a-firework managed to bluntly tricked his long-time-friend Bryce Cousland into sending all his forces ahead of him before launching an all out-massacre on the castle and killing everyone inside and then lying about it to those in power is perfectly obvious. 

 

Same as embezzling money from the national treasury behind Loghain's back. 

 

But he's blunt so he's incapable of subtlety, right? 

[Xetykins]

 
Same as embezzling money from the national treasury behind Loghain's back. 
 

Wait.. what? When did this happen?

[phaonica]

Wait.. what? When did this happen?

 

It's revealed in the quest A Fistful of Silver (which I think is a subquest of the Crime Wave quest)
"Arl Howe has been stealing silver bars from the city treasury. Crates of silver are being held temporarily in a warehouse right in the marketplace. Your objective is to locate the silver and take as much of it as you can."

[dragonflight288]

Wait.. what? When did this happen?

 

It's part of the Slim Cauldrey missions in Denerim called Crime Wave. You can get them as a rogue, or if you warden has at least one stealing skill. 

 

One of the missions in the quest chain has you stealing silver ingots that Howe and his personal guard have stolen from the treasury

[andy6915]

Yes, Mr. Subtle-as-a-firework managed to bluntly tricked his long-time-friend Bryce Cousland into sending all his forces ahead of him before launching an all out-massacre on the castle and killing everyone inside and then lying about it to those in power is perfectly obvious. 

 

Same as embezzling money from the national treasury behind Loghain's back. 

 

But he's blunt so he's incapable of subtlety, right? 

 

It depends on the context. When he's in a bragging and full-of-himself mood or a bad mood, he's not subtle. That's why he lets loose a ton of profanities to Anora, apparently. And when you confront him, he's in a bragging and bad mood both at the same time... Subtlety is going to be nonexistent.

[dragonflight288]

It depends on the context. When he's in a bragging and full-of-himself mood or a bad mood, he's not subtle. That's why he lets loose a ton of profanities to Anora, apparently. And when you confront him, he's in a bragging and bad mood both at the same time... Subtlety is going to be nonexistent.

 

But when he's kissing butt or scheming, like in the Human Noble origins, he's as subtle as a serpent in the grass, his forked tongue spewing forth honeyed words while he tenses, ready to strike. 

 

But you are right that when he's boasting he's not subtle at all. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It's part of the Slim Cauldrey missions in Denerim called Crime Wave. You can get them as a rogue, or if you warden has at least one stealing skill. 

 

One of the missions in the quest chain has you stealing silver ingots that Howe and his personal guard have stolen from the treasury

Although in fairness to Rendon Howe* we only have Slim's word for this, and he wants us to be pumped up for this mission and view it as not very morally questionable so that we'll actually do it. I'm not saying he's lying; in fact I think he's probably telling the truth. I'm just saying that "he's probably telling the truth" is as good as I can give you on that one.

 

* That phrase has probably never before been used.

[dragonflight288]

Although in fairness to Rendon Howe* we only have Slim's word for this, and he wants us to be pumped up for this mission and view it as not very morally questionable so that we'll actually do it. I'm not saying he's lying; in fact I think he's probably telling the truth. I'm just saying that "he's probably telling the truth" is as good as I can give you on that one.

 

* That phrase has probably never before been used.

 

...true. 

 

I believe him given the nature of Howe's guards and how much he seizes throughout the game.

[phaonica]

Although in fairness to Rendon Howe* we only have Slim's word for this, and he wants us to be pumped up for this mission and view it as not very morally questionable so that we'll actually do it. I'm not saying he's lying; in fact I think he's probably telling the truth. I'm just saying that "he's probably telling the truth" is as good as I can give you on that one.

 

* That phrase has probably never before been used.

 

Fair enough.

[Ash Wind]

This. Like, a lot.

 

No matter how much Loghain insists she wasn't in danger, and no matter how much Anora says she knows her father would never actually harm her, Howe freaking would, regardless of what Loghain told him to do. And I can't get passed that.

 

Anora most likely was in danger from Howe, whether she recognized it or not. I mean, I doubt she had the means to lock herself in the room and put wards on it. Howe wanted her out of the way. He might have not have planned to kill her, but I'd bet money he was thinking about it - weighing the advantages and disadvantages of disobeying Loghain. Then Anora takes the opportunity to send word that she's in danger. She uses the rescue so she can get in the know with the Warden. The Warden's stance, effects how she speaks at the Landsmeet.

 

So yes, she "staged" the rescue to get in the good graces of the Warden, but I still have trouble believing she was never in any danger from Howe (even if Anora didn't see it). That guy did a lot of crazy ****.

 

Yeah... I think that's how I'm feeling about this scene. 

As much as I disliked DAO Loghain, I don’t think he would have harmed Anora. However, the wildcard in the scenario is Howe, he’s such a despicable psychopath, it’s hard to gauge what level of paranoia she might have felt regarding him. She was, in fact, not free but locked in a room in Howe’s estate and Howe had already taken out a Teryn and most of his family, its not a huge leap of faith to at least consider the possibility that she may have genuinely felt in danger. 

 

She may have indeed fabricated or inflated the ‘I am in danger’ card, but at least in the end, at the Landsmeet she does hold up her end of the deal and speak out against her father (depending on your choices). Even knowing that the Warden plans on separating Loghain's soul from his body:

 

Anora, “…If there is a way for him to live, I would prefer it.”
The Warden,”There isn’t, without question.”
Anora, “Then that’s how it must be…”

[TEWR]

Although in fairness to Rendon Howe* we only have Slim's word for this, and he wants us to be pumped up for this mission and view it as not very morally questionable so that we'll actually do it. I'm not saying he's lying; in fact I think he's probably telling the truth. I'm just saying that "he's probably telling the truth" is as good as I can give you on that one.

 

* That phrase has probably never before been used.

 

True, though he's also getting very cozy with a rich noble that's out in the countryside, so there is definitely an element of want of wealth to his persona. Factor in how Bann Sighard's son and Bann Alfstanna's brother are in his dungeons, thus granting him leverage over their holdings if he wants, and Slim's statements become even stronger.