820 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

For one, silent protagonists are a dead archetype. Thankfully, it seems BioWare has finally come to this conclusion and discarded any chance of ever having a dumbfounded main character awkwardly staring at everybody else while they talk for 50 hours.

 

Secondly, multi-race selection with multiple backgrounds is bad for game development and storytelling. When there are so many variables and possibilities to consider, it dilutes and cheapens the overall story. The reason Shepard's story and even Hawke's story were so engaging is because they were more defined. However, in that definition, we also had more flexibility to shape their personality.

 

You can't do that with a silent protagonist or a main character who can be four different races with a dozen different backgrounds. There's just too many variables and not enough defined points. Giving players more choice and freedom negatively impacts the overall game and the story BioWare can create.

 

Thus, I believe the next protagonist in DA4 needs to be more akin to Shepard/Hawke and less so to the Inquisitor/HoF.

[LonewandererD]

I do like the idea of a more defined PC. Hawke wasn't a bad idea, he could have been great but the development time was working against him, leaving him flawed and underwhelming. I'd be cool with playing all human (because you know Bioware would do that) in the next game if it meant a character who had more, well, character

 

-D-

[Quaddis]

Hawke? Story? Engaging? You sure have some seriously low standards.

[Revan Reborn]

I do like the idea of a more defined PC. Hawke wasn't a bad idea, he could have been great but the development time was working against him. I'd be cool with playing all human (because you know Bioware would do that) in the next game if it meant a character who had more, well, character

 

-D-

Agreed. I know many are bashing BioWare for making the new protagonist in the next Mass Effect another N7 human operative, but it makes sense. Humans are more relatable. It's easier to make a compelling story around that experience rather than a made up alien race. It's also easier to do romance scenes, build relationships, and make it more organic and compelling. Not to mention, there is no way to possibly focus a story in Mass Effect if you are allowed to choose different races from different planets as a starting point. Sure, you lose out on variety and won't be able to play as a Turian, Quarian, etc., but that's why ME3 MP exists for those needs...

[Revan Reborn]

Hawke? Story? Engaging? You sure have some seriously low standards.

Let the DAII hate flow. It fuels me. In all seriousness though, DAII is a much better story than many give it credit. I had a much deeper connection to my Hawke than I ever did my Inquisitor or my Warden Commander.

[Bob Walker]

I guess many players prefer race options in Dragon Age games. In my case, Hawke was not a problem because I always play human characters. But if Hawke was an elf or a dwarf or a qunari (or worse: someone like Geralt, ew) I would prefer not to play the game. 

[SolNebula]

I agree the problem with the Inquisitor is that it never felt a real person. He was characterized by the title he had. He is the Inquisitor and nothing else. Being human, elf, dwarves or qunari didn't change anything. Before DAI I was in favor of multiple playable races but now i'm so against it because it results in a dull protagonist. I adore elves in fantsy setting but really there is no point in being one if the story barely recognize you as one.

If restricting our choices for the proganist is going to deliver a deeper character then I'm all for it. In the ME forum part I wrote against multiple playable races for the next ME game.

[Just My Moniker]

I'm not playing if there isn't multiple player races.

[Revan Reborn]

I guess many players prefer race options in Dragon Age games. In my case, Hawke was not a problem because I always play human characters. But if Hawke was an elf or a dwarf or a qunari (or worse: someone like Geralt, ew) I would prefer not to play the game. 

I know for myself, personally, I don't care what the race of the protagonist is. As long as the story is compelling and the character development is fantastic, I'm on board. Yeah, Geralt isn't a pretty boy like most AAA video game protagonists. So what? He stands out and is actually a departure from the norm. Plus, it fits is character and the game.

 

I agree the problem with the Inquisitor is that it never felt a real person. He was characterized by the title he had. He is the Inquisitor and nothing else. Being human, elf, dwarves or qunari didn't change anything. Before DAI I was in favor of multiple playable races but now i'm so against it because it results in a dull protagonist. I adore elves in fantsy setting but really there is no point in being one if the story barely recognize you as one.

If restricting our choices for the proganist is going to deliver a deeper character then I'm all for it. In the ME forum part I wrote against multiple playable races in the next ME game.

Yep. I don't care if I'm a dwarf, a qunari, an elf, or a human. What I want BioWare is to choose which one we'll be. Then, they can build an in-depth story around that experience and everybody will benefit story-wise. More choice with regard to character creation isn't always a good thing, and it's certainly detrimental to story-focused games.

[SofaJockey]

As long as DA4 has a great multiplayer, I'll be happy.

[SolNebula]

I'm not playing if there's isn't multiple player races.

 

What is the point of playing as an elf if you cannot be elfy about it?

A Qunari outcast is barely different from a human.

A surface dwarf is not that great either....

 

At the end you just play the same game and are barely noticed for what you actually are. Playing in Origins the different races intros was really cool but then you lose your background and become the Warden/Inquisitor whatever..... so really what is the point?

[Paul E Dangerously]

Agreed. I know many are bashing BioWare for making the new protagonist in the next Mass Effect another N7 human operative, but it makes sense. Humans are more relatable. It's easier to make a compelling story around that experience rather than a made up alien race. It's also easier to do romance scenes, build relationships, and make it more organic and compelling. Not to mention, there is no way to possibly focus a story in Mass Effect if you are allowed to choose different races from different planets as a starting point. Sure, you lose out on variety and won't be able to play as a Turian, Quarian, etc., but that's why ME3 MP exists for those needs...

 

No, no it does not. If I want to play an RPG, odds are I'm playing it for the SP campaign and that's it.

 

Honestly, there's only one reason Bioware ever does a human lead and that's because it's easy. You don't have to do any work on armor, weaponry, animation, or the like, because you can just use the same things across the board. With races that are different sizes and shapes, it requires actual work. "It's easier" is it in a nutshell.

[Revan Reborn]

What is the point of playing as an elf if you cannot be elfy about it?

A Qunari outcast is barely different from a human.

A surface dwarf is not that great either....

 

At the end you just play the same game and are barely noticed for what you actually are. Playing in Origins the different races intros was really cool but then you lose your background and become the Warden/Inquisitor whatever..... so really what is the point?

Yep. I think people need to think about it more broadly. Look at Mass Effect. Look at how being human and overcoming the odds was such a crucial element of the trilogy. That wouldn't have been possible had Shepard had the choice of being a hanar or an elcor. BioWare would have had to dilute the experience being Shepard is a "Spectre" and that would have been the extent of the character development. It's just not as compelling.

 

I understand the want for there to be more races, but you just end up hurting the story and hurting character development in general. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's just not financially feasible nor practical.

[Revan Reborn]

No, no it does not. If I want to play an RPG, odds are I'm playing it for the SP campaign and that's it.

 

Honestly, there's only one reason Bioware ever does a human lead and that's because it's easy. You don't have to do any work on armor, weaponry, animation, or the like, because you can just use the same things across the board. With races that are different sizes and shapes, it requires actual work. "It's easier" is it in a nutshell.

You are confusing "easy" with "practical." Humans are practical because we are human. They are relatable. They can have romances. They have a wide range of animations. They are relatively flexible. They can have more variety and diversity. Look at all the other races in Mass Effect If they aren't humanoid in terms of structure, their exoskeletons and animations are severely limited. Turians can't duck. Elcor, hanar, and volus can't do much either. Quarians are restricted to their suits. Are you starting to see why other races are a problem? It's not because it's necessarily "easier" to do humans, it just makes more sense from a development standpoint and a storytelling standpoint.

 

The reason races works better in Dragon Age is because they are all humanoids. Dwarves are short humans. Elves are skinny humans. Qunari are big humans. The problem, going back to the original OP, is that too much variety and too many backgrounds dilutes the story and the experience.

[SolNebula]

Yep. I think people need to think about it more broadly. Look at Mass Effect. Look at how being human and overcoming the odds was such a crucial element of the trilogy. That wouldn't have been possible had Shepard had the choice of being a hanar or an elcor. BioWare would have had to dilute the experience being Shepard is a "Spectre" and that would have been the extent of the character development. It's just not as compelling.

 

I understand the want for there to be more races, but you just end up hurting the story and hurting character development in general. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's just not financially feasible nor practical.

 

Agreed I really don't understand this pushing for multiple races if at the end we are going to be forced to a single road where who we are isn't important but what we represent is. It's just an illusion of choice and not a proper choice because the world does NOT recognize you for the most part as a Dalish/Qunari or whatever but as the Herald of Andraste.....a generic individual.

[Toasted Llama]

Can't believe I'm saying this and picking this side of the coin now but here goes nothing:


If we can't define our hero ourselves anymore, I'm switching to Bethesda's games. Part of what I like about RPGs is the ability to play as a race of my own choice.

[New Kid]

I don't think the protagonist was the issue with the storytelling in this game, but I do agree that Hawke was a lot more engaging.

[SolNebula]

Can't believe I'm saying this and picking this side of the coin now but here goes nothing:


If we can't define our hero ourselves anymore, I'm switching to Bethesda's games. Part of what I like about RPGs is the ability to play as a race of my own choice.

 

How Skyrim made any sense storywise if you didn't play as a Northmen?

I couldn't play as a High Elf due to the fact I had to kill fellow elves just because they are the big bad elven supremacist Thalmors......if I'm an high elf why should I care about it and why should I join the human side? Doesn't seem quite roleplaying for me.

[CINCTuchanka]

I think that a lot of the hardcore fans like to insert their own headcanon into games re: their characters' backgrounds and such.  Multiple races benefit those who have 6 playthroughs with headcanon-ed origins and meta-gamed results.  It ends up helping them but hurting the vast majority of players who only go through the game once (if that.)  When it comes down to it, the differences between the races is so slight as to be non-existent unless you are hardcore enough to look for the differences or make them up yourself.  BioWare ends up putting time and effort into multiple races that it can't fully deliver at the expense of other things they would be able to, including adding more depth to the main PC.

[LolsLikeMuttley]

I don't think the issue with DAI is the multiple races but the manner in which they were implemented. Due to the nature of the story the Inquisitor doesn't get a properly defined origin that you are able to experience as you do in DAO. You can't really shoe horn a back story into a game where you begin with no memory. It was that plot premise which didn't let me identify with my character at all.

 

Personally speaking I only really connected with the Inquisitor at the end of the game when I felt she had actually earned the title. As a result I enjoyed doing the Hakkon dlc after.

 

Mass Effect had a stronger story but remember Shepard's tale was told over 3 games. Dragon Age only gives you one protagonist and I'm not sure you'll get the same effect with this series from just one game with a fixed single protagonist.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Yep. I think people need to think about it more broadly. Look at Mass Effect. Look at how being human and overcoming the odds was such a crucial element of the trilogy. That wouldn't have been possible had Shepard had the choice of being a hanar or an elcor. BioWare would have had to dilute the experience being Shepard is a "Spectre" and that would have been the extent of the character development. It's just not as compelling.

 

I understand the want for there to be more races, but you just end up hurting the story and hurting character development in general. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's just not financially feasible nor practical.

 

You "overcome the odds" in every Bioware game, ever.  Humanity overcoming the odds has only been done about a hundred billion times, and I'm probably missing a few. Practically every sci-fi ever has humanity as the odd man out, doing something incredible that nobody else can. Humanity is basically the John Cena of the fantastical storytelling medium.

 

It sure as hell didn't stop Bioware from dropping a million damned balls in the course of the trilogy. The human-dominated Council from ME1's renegade ending? Retcon beamed so hard it wasn't even a thing. You didn't even get to see the Council's holograms in ME2. The waffling on the Spectre status in ME2 applies to literally nothing - if Anderson is the councilor you get it back, and nothing happens. If Udina is the councilor you don't get it back, but nothing happens because Bioware gives it back to you at the start of 3 anyway. Then there's the councilor choice itself, which also gets flipped if you picked Anderson.

 

It isn't "humans make better stories!" it's lazy damned writing.

 

My human Warden had no stake whatsoever on the choice of Dwarven King in DAO, he just needed something done. Either of my dwarves, however, really did - do I pick the one that's stood by my family all along, but might be a worse candidate for Ozammar's future? Do I pick the other, regardless of my background? What about my character's family? They're decidedly better off with Bhelen if I'm casteless. The City and Dalish elves also had connections to plot stuff, and even the Human Noble does - even if a lot of that plot is dropped.

 

Here's the kicker: Inquisition does a lousy job at this. You get choices, but they're rarely personal. Your companions aren't your friends as much as they're your employees, and it feels like it. The Inquisitor himself has nothing relating to his background outside of some war table missions. You never get to meet any of your Qunari mercenaries, or your Dwarf Carta family members, or the Noble's family or Dalish clan. DA2's story was done badly, but it did have some resonance because Hawke was connected to a lot of it - the entirety of Legacy, especially if you have Carver or Bethany around. It wasn't because he was human, but because he was connected to the events in a personal fashion.

 

The Inquisitor is just kinda..there. You show up, get a glowy mark on your hand, and proceed to walk into the leadership of the Inquisition without a damned thing in your path. The Wardens all had to overcome something before they got there, even Hawke did. DAI's just a power fantasy without any of the real elements that make that sort of thing endearing.

[Sah291]

I think I prefer the slightly more defined Shepard/Hawke format myself, but I feel like the devs have already moved away from that style, so I'd rather see them just stick with a direction now and develop that, rather than rebooting every game. There are pros and cons with each approach anyway. While a more defined protagonist would make the story more personal and is probably better for carrying choices and branching narratives over from game to game, it limits the kind of protagonists we're likely to see. You could expect more human noble types, since there would be little incentive to make a game around an Elven or Qunari protagonist. Even if I would find that really interesting, I'm sure I would probably be in the minority. At least with playable races you can justify the resources for the minority that wants to play as a Dwarf or whatever. So it's a trade off. The problem with iconic Shepard type characters is they introduce their own set of problems, like power and spectacle creep, when they appear in sequels. Shepard had to die just so that you could start over fresh. That gets old after a while too.

[Phoe77]

I don't know how I feel about this.  I like Hawke a lot more than I like any of my Wardens, but I also like my Inquisitor a great deal.  I don't think that one type of protagonist is inherently superior to the other, but I do think that they offer different strengths and weaknesses.  

 

I see a lot of people saying that being a certain race doesn't impact the character in any way.  I don't really feel strongly on the issue either way, but I am curious as to how they would like to see the protagonist's race influence the story.  The biggest drop of the ball I can think of is the Temple of Mythal when you're an elf.

[Bfler]

For one, silent protagonists are a dead archetype. Thankfully, it seems BioWare has finally come to this conclusion and discarded any chance of ever having a dumbfounded main character awkwardly staring at everybody else while they talk for 50 hours.

 

 

Silent protagonists are for players, who are able to use their imagination and they aren't dead as you can see in e.g. Pillars of Eternity.

[jedidotflow]

You didn't even get to see the Council's holograms in ME2.

 

Lol. Yes, you do when you visit Anderson in the Citadel and they offer to reinstate your Spectre status.

 

even the Human Noble does - even if a lot of that plot is dropped.

 

The plot isn't dropped; you get to confront Arl Howe and you take your sweet revenge.

 

Some people seem to forget that these are video games and not novels.