820 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

Because you need two sides for the multiplayer. If it was a single-player game do you think you'd be able to do that?

 

It's possible. Games like Hatred exist, after all.

[KainD]

Because you need two sides for the multiplayer. If it was a single-player game do you think you'd be able to do that?

And why not?

There are also games like Overlord for example, where you win either by killing or enslaving the population. And that game is like fresh air tbh, it gets boring playing same crap over and over.

Again, its just a game. Where's the problem?

[In Exile]

I'd like to think that there can be a difference between being a racist person and wanting to play a flawed, racist character. Maybe such an option gives too much opening for abuse, though.

 

I don't disagree with you. But the game has to be very nuanced to be able to fuctionally explore that topic. In a lot of ways the issue of race has to predominate the setting beyond a line of dialogue being a dismissal based on race (or sexuality). And that takes a lot of resources. 

[Steelcan]

I don't disagree with you. But the game has to be very nuanced to be able to fuctionally explore that topic. In a lot of ways the issue of race has to predominate the setting beyond a line of dialogue being a dismissal based on race (or sexuality). And that takes a lot of resources.

I don't think being able to do a racist character in DA is that much of a stretch,particularly a human against elves

[CronoDragoon]

Again, its just a game. Where's the problem?

 

Are you arguing that there's no such thing as "in bad taste"?

 

By all means, present me with a scenario where outright racism is justifiable content "for the lulz."

[phaonica]

(to phaonica) I think it is about balancing it and having it make sense within the established culture and setting of the country we're in. There should be consequences and reactions to what we say and do.

 

Expressing a dislike towards an elven or human person based on their race is one thing (think "I'm no friend of you, human lord" in Origins towards Cailan or being referred to as a "shemlen" or "knife-ear" by NPCs) but killing them and being able to explicitly say it was because of their race is another.

 

Being homophobic as an example would be incredible odd considering the lax view on homosexuality in almost all of Thedas and would be very odd for a character to be.

 

I agree that playing a homophobic character maybe doesn't make much sense in the setting. But both Cousland and Trevelyan are both nobles who could be roleplayed as prejudiced against elves, probably with little consequence in most cases. I wouldn't expect something like this to be a priority, but I'd be kind of disappointed if Bioware put "evil" options back into the game that include being hostile and murder-knifing at the slightest provocation, but shied away from allowing prejudice.

[phaonica]

And why not?

There are also games like Overlord for example, where you win either by killing or enslaving the population. And that game is like fresh air tbh, it gets boring playing same crap over and over.

Again, its just a game. Where's the problem?

 

And Dungeon Keeper, too. I love Dungeon Keeper.

[budzai]

Why do you play RPG games if you don't like RPing?

[KainD]

Are you arguing that there's no such thing as "in bad taste"?

By all means, present me with a scenario where outright racism is justifiable content "for the lulz."

No there's no such thing as bad taste. Its pixels, no one gets hurt for real, everybody happy.

I myself am not racists, but its always nice to have options. Someone enjoys it? All the power to them, they cant do it irl without going to jail anyway.

It "seems" like you don't really enjoy RPG.

[KainD]

Are you arguing that there's no such thing as "in bad taste"?

By all means, present me with a scenario where outright racism is justifiable content "for the lulz."

No there's no such thing as bad taste. Its pixels, no one gets hurt for real, everybody happy.

I myself am not racists, but its always nice to have options. Someone enjoys it? All the power to them, they cant do it irl without going to jail anyway.

It "seems" like you don't really enjoy RPG.

[Shechinah]

(to phaonica) It could have less of a consequence when you are noble but it could also provide interesting if difficult to implement situations like say you've been referring to servants with the slur and general mistreatment them and they become part of a conspiracy against you or one attempts to kill you out of revenge for some wrong you've done the servant in question. That would be a consequence of your racistic behavior.  

[phaonica]

I don't disagree with you. But the game has to be very nuanced to be able to fuctionally explore that topic. In a lot of ways the issue of race has to predominate the setting beyond a line of dialogue being a dismissal based on race (or sexuality). And that takes a lot of resources. 

 

I agree with you. I think if the narrative itself doesn't do *something* to point out that your character is being an *******, regardless of whether there are consequences or not, then it can feel like the game is condoning that type of behavior by allowing it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why do you play RPG games if you don't like RPing?

Story, Characters, Environment, Gameplay, there are a lot of reasons people can play RPGs that don't involve RPing. 

[CronoDragoon]

No there's no such thing as bad taste.

Well I guess we're done here.

But just to be clear, me not liking racism as a viable personality trait means I don't like RPGs, in your opinion?

[phaonica]

(to phaonica) It could have less of a consequence when you are noble but it could also provide interesting if difficult to implement situations like say you've been referring to servants with the slur and general mistreatment them and they become part of a conspiracy against you or one attempts to kill you out of revenge for some wrong you've done the servant in question. That would be a consequence of your racistic behavior.  

 

It would just depend on what the devs' goal in allowing racist behavior is. Sometimes you are punished for picking evil options in games; other times you are rewarded for it. The purpose of allowing evil options isn't necessarily because the devs think they are okay, but rather to allow a different way for the story to play out.

[budzai]

Story, Characters, Environment, Gameplay, there are a lot of reasons people can play RPGs that don't involve RPing. 

but you can find those things in other games. why people want to ruiin RPG games... if you don't like RPing don't play RPG games... simpe as that.

[CronoDragoon]

It would just depend on what the devs' goal in allowing racist behavior is. Sometimes you are punished for picking evil options in games; other times you are rewarded for it. The purpose of allowing evil options isn't necessarily because the devs think they are okay, but rather to allow a different way for the story to play out.

Right, and that's fine. For the record, BioWare has already allowed you to not only approve of but also practice slavery before: In Jade Empire. Slavery is an action, and actions can have different motivations and interesting outcomes, depending how they are implemented.

Edit: You can also give Fenris back to his master in DA2, right?

[Shechinah]

Take a situation in which you have a quest involving physician of dubious ethics who experiments on people. His experiments might provide a leap in medical knowledge that can be used to save many, many people in the future. He offers you a reward for keeping what he is doing a secret but you can also oust him. A player can have a different reasoning to why they might pick the former option that is not connected to monetary reward but because they believe that the physician's experiments, horrible as they are, will provide that medical leap. Of course, this is probably an extreme situation.

 

I remember a situation in the Consular storyline in Star Wars: The Old Republic where you have the choice of saving some people or saving long-lost knowledge that you have no idea what is.

 

EDIT: I think I lost track of where I was going with this.

[Il Divo]

Well I guess we're done here.

But just to be clear, me not liking racism as a viable personality trait means I don't like RPGs, in your opinion?

 

Yep, about as dumb as it sounds. 

[KainD]

But just to be clear, me not liking racism as a viable personality trait means I don't like RPGs, in your opinion?

 

Oh no. You not wanting more options does. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

but you can find those things in other games. why people want to ruiin RPG games... if you don't like RPing don't play RPG games... simpe as that.

I was just giving reasons people play RPGs other than RPing. For example someone may love Mass Effect's story but not RPing. Mass Effect is still the only game they can experience the Mass Effect story. 

[Shevy]

Well I guess we're done here.

But just to be clear, me not liking racism as a viable personality trait means I don't like RPGs, in your opinion?

No, you are free to dislike the option to be "racist" in games, but an outrigth racist protag could be very interesting to roleplay. Imagine a black protag who hates all white people and is prejudiced against them. You could choose your motivations to be this way or "just for the lulz" as you said. Such a protag would be rare and I could see myself playing him/her in a RPG to see the dialogue, choices and consequences.

 

Video games are a form of escapism after all. To experience things you can't or don't want to do in real life. I see no harm in having a racist protag, as long as it is a good game in general. Overlord, Dungeon Keeper ( not that mobile abomination) or Trevor in GTA V are refreshing games or figures in a bald, muscular, overhuman, womanizer badass video game world. At least for me.

[Heimdall]

No, you are free to dislike the option to be "racist" in games, but an outrigth racist protag could be very interesting to roleplay. Imagine a black protag who hates all white people and is prejudiced against them.

Those particular racial social constructs don't seem to exist in Thedas.

[Shevy]

Those particular racial social constructs don't seem to exist in Thedas.

This example wasn't DA related. But playing a racist city elf with prejudices against humans would kind of fit this role. It was playable to a point in Origins, but the option for consistent racism would be interesting.

[In Exile]

I agree with you. I think if the narrative itself doesn't do *something* to point out that your character is being an *******, regardless of whether there are consequences or not, then it can feel like the game is condoning that type of behavior by allowing it.

The problem is that you're in a position of incredible power. Not just in terms status, but in the most literal sense of your abilities to fight and challenge your enemies.

Even if you are called out for your beliefs - and even if it is by other characters in equivalent positions - there's a sense in which the PC is just untouchable. I think it's that aspect of the game that makes handling racism - as opposed to respectful atheism ("I don't believe ") - very challenging.