820 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

Just adding to Faerunner's point. I can point out a lot more like the lothering merchant etc but yeah..

[berelinde]

Sense of humor is a personal thing, but that doesn't stop people from judging that of others by their own standards. I happen to find two of the three Inquisitor examples quite humorous (the "I hope someone [knows what's going on]" and "You can't be serious all the time" ones. The other one is kinda a miss for me, too.) OK, I'm not squirting coffee out my nose in paroxysms of mirth, but I find them funnier than any of the examples of Warden humor posted (except the Remigold one, which I do find funny.)

 

Anyway, it isn't a case of one set of examples being funny and the other not. Humor is subjective.

 

FWIW, Hawke was my favorite protagonist because I appreciated the humor. And I'm not talking about sarcastic Hawke, either. OK, some of sarcastic Hawke's lines were pretty good, but a lot of them left me flat or were a bit too contrived. I'm talking about diplomatic Hawke, believe it or not, and the ridiculous things that came out of his mouth. The fact that these were delivered in a deadpan "Batman voice" made them all the more humorous. Not everyone will appreciate that kind of humor, and that's cool, but I did.

[In Exile]

That's your opinion. I thought it was very cleverly written, and played off well with other characters, "imagined delivery" or no.

 

Alistair: Just so you know, if the king ever asks me to put on a dress and dance the Remigold, I'm drawing the line. Darkspawn or no.

Warden: I don't know, that could serve as a great distraction.

Alistair: What, me shimmy down the line? We could slaughter them as they roll over laughing.

Duncan: *put upon sigh*

 

Alistair: I think [Leliana] should come with us.

Warden: (Some variation of "No, she's crazy.")

Alistair: Yes, but she's more like "Ooh, pretty colors!" Not "Muahahaha! I'm Princess Stabitty, Stab, Kill-Kill."

Warden: Don't make me stab-kill you. She's not coming!

 

Sten: Your methods baffle me. Do you intend to keep going north until it becomes south, and attack the Archdemon from the rear?

Warden: It'll never see this coming.

 

Alistair: *gives the Warden a rose*

Warden: Feeling thorny, are we?

 

Warde: So you [Howe] are the one who butchered my kin.

Howe: When animals snap at their human masters, it's necessary to cull the heard.

Warden: Oh look, the regent owns a talking ass.

 

Not to mention the dialogue options that let you play dumb or innocent... (Haven't seen conversations like THIS in a Dragon Age game for a while.)

 

Leliana: But now it's getting late. I think I might... turn in early. I can't help thinking about how soft and warm my bedroll is.
Warden: You don't want to talk to me anymore?
Leliana: Oh, of course I do. You know I enjoy your company. But it's getting a little chilly and I'd prefer to be in my bedroll.
Warden: Well, I shan't keep you.
Leliana: You know, it would be nice if you came with me.
Warden: What for?
Leliana: So I can show you my collection of pressed flowers, obviously.
Warden: I didn't know you collected pressed flowers.
Leliana: I... don't. Stop pretending you don't know what I want.
Warden: I have no idea what's going on.
Leliana: Oh, the games you play. Listen, I want to spend the night with you. There, I said it.

 

2) When trying to gain entrance to a secret gathering of Grey Warden supporters at a local inn:

 

Person inside: What's the password?

Warden: Err... sausage?

Person inside: Sausage?! Bloody no! Go away!

Or...

Warden: The grey nug flies north for the winter.

Person: ... Go away.

 

And on and on and on. I miss writing like this. I miss dialogue options like this. The Inquisitor's attempts at humor in DAI were so bland and half-hearted to me, even just the writing. I mean, the things they try to pass as humor...

 

Cassanra: The Breach must be sealed, and Solas believes a second attempt might prove successful; provided the Mark has more power...

Inquisitor: What harm can there be in powering up something we barely understand?

Cassandra: Hold onto that sense of humor.

Me: That was supposed to be funny? 

 

Giselle, after first arriving in Haven, asks how you're fairing:

Inquisitor: Oh, I'm sure someone knows what's going on here... I least, I hope there is.

Giselle: (Something like) I'm glad you still have a sense of humor, even in these troubled times.

Me: THAT was supposed to be funny?? 

 

Inqusitor to Cullen: You can't be serious all the time... Well, maybe you can.

Me: HOW IS THIS FUNNY?! 

 

 

Anyway, I'm failing to see how this refutes my argument that "human-only =/= exclusively great personality; race selection =/= inevitably blander personalities." Again, I say "strong writing = strong character, regardless of physical appearance or informed background." Hawke's supposedly great personalities came from the supposedly well-written and well-acted dialogue options on the dialogue wheel (I just think they're three kinds of obnoxious), so I don't see how getting different race options would ruin that any more than getting the option to play as a female or mage.

 

I wasn't refuting your argument, so I have no idea why you'd argue that part. In fact, in this very thread, I have come out in favour of DA:I and said that both background and race selection are features are like. My greatest disappointment with DA:I is them not featuring the background I like for the elves - the CE (well, that and the weird proportions of the male elf). All I've said was that I don't think that the Warden had snarkier lines. Aside from the fact that those examples are a bit cherry-picked (as in, they're not representative of the dialogue on either side), I don't see there being any difference in them and the ones you picked from Inquisition. 

 

You've shown that your sense of humour is different from mine, sure. Like this one:

 

Person inside: What's the password?

Warden: Err... sausage?

Person inside: Sausage?! Bloody no! Go away!

Or...

Warden: The grey nug flies north for the winter.

Person: ... Go away.

 

 

I find it stupid, not funny. Similarly, I also find the playing dumb bits to be stupid rather than funny. But that's my sense of humour. Whereas this one, to me, is hilarious:

 

Cassanra: The Breach must be sealed, and Solas believes a second attempt might prove successful; provided the Mark has more power...

Inquisitor: What harm can there be in powering up something we barely understand?

Cassandra: Hold onto that sense of humor.

 

It's exactly the kind of dry wit I love, whereas DA:O was a lot more slapstick. And trollface Hawke, to me, was hilarious because it was basically a tirade of incredibly insensitive Josh Whedon-like quips. 

 

If I have a problem with DA:I - and the reason I think it's on the same level as DA:O - is that I think the delivery is too muted in DA:I to make the line work as being funny. Whereas I think DA:O lacked humour, I think DA:I is too reserved to portray it properly. 

 

The Cullen like is a great example of delivery issues - the Inquisitor VAs delivery it like they're reading off a laundry list. 

[Elfyoth]

What is the point of playing as an elf if you cannot be elfy about it?

A Qunari outcast is barely different from a human.

A surface dwarf is not that great either....

 

At the end you just play the same game and are barely noticed for what you actually are. Playing in Origins the different races intros was really cool but then you lose your background and become the Warden/Inquisitor whatever..... so really what is the point?

Who said you cannont be Elfy about it? Have you played as an elf in DAI? Have you seen how many pepole react that you are an elf. I call it being "Elfy" 

[Phoe77]

I agree about the muted delivery.  There are occasions when I think the humorous lines are delivered pretty well, but there certainly are other times where they just seemed phoned in.  Hawke's likes were delivered in a much more humorous way, but as a consequence he could very easily come off as over-the-top.  

 

For the most part, I still like the Inquisitor's delivery in most cases, but the bland instances are certainly there.

[In Exile]

I agree about the muted delivery. There are occasions when I think the humorous lines are delivered pretty well, but there certainly are other times where they just seemed phoned in. Hawke's likes were delivered in a much more humorous way, but as a consequence he could very easily come off as over-the-top.

For the most part, I still like the Inquisitor's delivery in most cases, but the bland instances are certainly there.

I think the issue is voice direction. Look at Mark Meer in any non-Shepard role. He has so much personality it's like the character is ready to burst. But with Shepard it's the driest performance ever. That's voice direction.

[Sah291]

Sense of humor is a personal thing, but that doesn't stop people from judging that of others by their own standards. I happen to find two of the three Inquisitor examples quite humorous (the "I hope someone [knows what's going on]" and "You can't be serious all the time" ones. The other one is kinda a miss for me, too.) OK, I'm not squirting coffee out my nose in paroxysms of mirth, but I find them funnier than any of the examples of Warden humor posted (except the Remigold one, which I do find funny.)
 
Anyway, it isn't a case of one set of examples being funny and the other not. Humor is subjective.
 
FWIW, Hawke was my favorite protagonist because I appreciated the humor. And I'm not talking about sarcastic Hawke, either. OK, some of sarcastic Hawke's lines were pretty good, but a lot of them left me flat or were a bit too contrived. I'm talking about diplomatic Hawke, believe it or not, and the ridiculous things that came out of his mouth. The fact that these were delivered in a deadpan "Batman voice" made them all the more humorous. Not everyone will appreciate that kind of humor, and that's cool, but I did.

I totally agree. The Inquisitor seems more serious to me overall, but has a very dry/subtle sense of humor when it does come out. So it is there, but maybe not the kind of thing everyone would find amusing.

And agreed about Hawke. I feel Hawke was a very comedic/satirical protagonist, and some of the diplo and aggressive lines are very funny as well. I guess that's why I never found mixing the tones as jarring as some did, if you timed it right.

[phaonica]

I'm glad you all had fun with Hawke, but I can't stand his/her "trollface," "incredibly insensitive" sense of humor. Can't stand it. Glad you all had fun with it, though.

 

I'm having some trouble placing how Hawke is really a more "defined" character than, specifically, Trevelyan.  Is it because Hawke's family is actually present in the story? Is it because Hawke's lines, for whatever reason, are arguably more passionate?

[Robert Cousland]

Hey, I love my snarky purple Hawke. "What's a Mekel?" XD

 

Im playing as my first female Dwarf in Inquisition, and, I have to say, she has really nice boobs.

[Revan Reborn]

I'd just like to point out that sense of humor is very subjective folks, if that isn't obvious. It's also somewhat silly to compare DAO to DAII or DAI as the Warden doesn't have a voice... Thus, the line might sound funnier in your mind when you read it. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it's as funny if someone actually says it. Regardless, everybody has their preference and while some believe Mark Meer's Shepard performance was bland and unimpressive, I personally felt he was spot on, especially by the end of the trilogy.

 

In my opinion, a sense of humor is something that can really only be pulled off if it's performed (i.e. voice acted). Reading lines of text is one thing, but it's more impactful to hear it and then see the reaction of the companions or NPCs. You just can't get that same level of impact with a silent protagonist. I also do believe if the protagonist has a more defined role, it allows the writers to inject more humor. It's not as easy when they are trying to make concessions to players and not define the character too much. The Inquisitor had a few funny lines, but I could tell BioWare had to reel in what they could do as they didn't want to project too much of a personality in the story.

 

Hawke was an example of a character the writing team was able to go all out with not worrying about any constraints. Obviously, not everybody enjoyed Hawke's sarcastic humor. However, many also did and you can find endless Youtube videos of nothing but sarcastic Hawke plastered everywhere. It's probably one of the most memorable highlights of DAII.

[dsl08002]

Hawke I guess was created for that particular reason but DAO:s core feature was to implement a multi origin where you could choose a hero, DA2 was not created on that idea, which is one of the major reason of why hawke wasn't a big favorite. Its a Good and fun character but he/she was created at the wrong place and wrong time.

But it was hinted in the beginning that DAO would be like ME but then bioware changed their minds. So IF they wanted to create a triology with the same character they would simply have used the warden and either in the development removed the US OR say that the warden lives is default (like it was in the ending of ME2).

[Revan Reborn]

Hawke I guess was created for that particular reason but DAO:s core feature was to implement a multi origin where you could choose a hero, DA2 was not created on that idea, which is one of the major reason of why hawke wasn't a big favorite. Its a Good and fun character but he/she was created at the wrong place and wrong time.

But it was hinted in the beginning that DAO would be like ME but then bioware changed their minds. So IF they wanted to create a triology with the same character they would simply have used the warden and either in the development removed the US OR say that the warden lives is default (like it was in the ending of ME2).

That depends on your perspective. BioWare indicated after DAO that the origin stories were not as successful as they had hoped. They felt they weren't practical from a development standpoint and excessively front-loaded the game with a lot of racial diversity without having any consistency throughout. DAI was an attempt to rectify that with varying results.

 

Hawke was a chance for the writing team to truly try and make the best story they could with a main protagonist who fit that setting. It was also largely in response to the overwhelming success of Mass Effect with Shepard as the lead. It's highly debatable whether or not Hawke being more defined was a "major reason Hawke wasn't a big favorite." From what I've witnessed, BSN, as always, seems to be rather divided about whether they loved Hawke or hated Hawke.

 

Where did you hear that? BioWare had always been rather transparent that they wanted to do their own spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. That's what Dragon Age was. That's why it had a silent protagonist and a more traditional RPG combat system. DAII, on the other hand, was definitely developed in response to ME's success with inclusions of a voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, personality, etc.

[pinkjellybeans]

I think DA4 should have a protagonist that is a mix between the HoF and Hawke, because I think the HoF has the best lines and the best personality, even better than Hawke. Hawke wins because they have a voice but if the HoF had a voice too it would be glorious! My main issue with the Inquisitor is that they have no memorable lines, it's always so boring and bland! Even the middle options that are supposed to be "smartass/clever" are so... meh. I don't remember a single line that actually made me laugh or go "now that's clever!" like the HoF did and occasionally Hawke. I think the Inquisitor is so limited in personality because they are the leader, so they can't truly be a witty smartass or just mock people because they have to be so polite and neutral. So hopefully that will change in DA4.

 

But I do agree that DA4 shouldn't include all 4 races again unless they give them different backgrounds that actually make some difference. Because playing a different race just for aesthetic reasons is not worth it. At least for me.

[Zjarcal]

I'm glad you all had fun with Hawke, but I can't stand his/her "trollface," "incredibly insensitive" sense of humor. Can't stand it. Glad you all had fun with it, though.

 

I'm having some trouble placing how Hawke is really a more "defined" character than, specifically, Trevelyan.  Is it because Hawke's family is actually present in the story? Is it because Hawke's lines, for whatever reason, are arguably more passionate?

 

It's not.

[In Exile]

This is all by way of background. DAO had been in development for an absurd amount of time. It was initially planned on the Aurora engine. There use to be screenshots of Ostagar on that engine as well as shots of what appears to be the temple of Sacred Ashes and Morrigan. At an early point DAO was going to be an MP game where each origin was a Grey Warden PC who met at Ostagar (though these were not necessarily the origins we saw). There was also going to be a "nemesis" system (not to be confused with Mordor) where each PC would get a personalised nemesis for the story (we see this with Howe and elements kind of remain with Bhelen and Tamlen).

The spiritual successor to BG was meaningless marketing fluff. ME was the spiritual successor to KoTOR and it pioneered PC VO.

In any event the line about the voiced PC ties in with the long development of DAO. At some point the devs looked to DAO and considered very strongly adding in PC VO but the cost and changes seemed prohibitive (because they'd need multiple VOs for the races, or perhaps even for each origin).

[MattH]

The positive of having a more grounded character is that the story can be tailored around them and thus have that character more involved. The negative is that you loose some roleplay aspects.

I'd go for story every time. There is no reason however that there should only be one race choice, given a few tweaks, Hawke still could have been part of a family of refuges escaping the blight, as a surface dwarf or city elf.

For DA4 it all comes down to story, and then designing the game with multiple races in mind from the get go, rather than shove them in midway through development. For example, we start as a slave in Tevinter for the next game, inciting rebellion. Yes, perfect! Give the character a name such as Hawke, allow them to choose from human, elf or dwarf, and give them a family that reflects that. Yes it would be hard work, but the pay off of meeting in the middle would be worth it! Best of both worlds!

[In Exile]

Just on the topic of humour, someone posted this in another thread, and since it's my favourite line in DA:I, I thought I'd bring it up as a reminder (and a case where I think the voice direction - at least for the male English PC - is quite good):

 

Inquisitor: Oh, you're from wherever? I'm from North wherever!

Sera (confused): ...what?

Inquisitor: North Wherever! Oh, we had fun on Street and/or Local Tavern!

[phaonica]

It's not.

 

Yeah, no one's really helping me figure that one out, so far. Hawke and Trevelyan don't seem like they're designed that differently, except that the Inquisitor is more subdued in line delivery.

[Heimdall]

Yeah, no one's really helping me figure that one out, so far. Hawke and Trevelyan don't seem like they're designed that differently, except that the Inquisitor is more subdued in line delivery.

I think its mostly that Hawke's background actually features prominently in the story (It is the story in some cases), whereas Trevelyan's does not.

[phaonica]

I think its mostly that Hawke's background actually features prominently in the story (It is the story in some cases), whereas Trevelyan's does not.

 

So if there were multiple race options and each of their origins was used more in the main narrative (I don't know, like origin-specific side content similar to companion side content), would that help make all the characters more defined?

[Heimdall]

So if there were multiple race options and each of their origins was used more in the main narrative (I don't know, like origin-specific side content similar to companion side content), would that help make all the characters more defined?

Maybe, though in Hawke's case it wasn't just side content, it was the main story.  The character's background was critical for the plot to even work.  Whereas Trevelyans was incidental to the main plot, really.  And certain things are set: Hawke cares for his sibling and looks after his mother, for example.

 

That and there seems to be a feeling that Hawke's three personality options gave the character a stronger and more consistent feeling than what the Inquisitor could say.

[phaonica]

Maybe, though in Hawke's case it wasn't just side content, it was the main story.  The character's background was critical for the plot to even work.  Whereas Trevelyans was incidental to the main plot, really.  And certain things are set: Hawke cares for his sibling and looks after his mother, for example.

 

That and there seems to be a feeling that Hawke's three personality options gave the character a stronger and more consistent feeling than what the Inquisitor could say.

 

I suppose. But Hawke and his family could almost have easily been city elves and it would have worked with little alteration. And does the Inquisitor not also have neutral, humorous, and aggressive dialog choices for the most part?

[Heimdall]

I suppose. But Hawke and his family could almost have easily been city elves and it would have worked with little alteration. And does the Inquisitor not also have neutral, humorous, and aggressive dialog choices for the most part?

Well, the whole seeking lost nobility part wouldn't have worked and I doubt they would have been able to buy a house in High Town.

 

I don't know really, that's just the general sense I get from others.

[phaonica]

Well, the whole seeking lost nobility part wouldn't have worked and I doubt they would have been able to buy a house in High Town.

 

I don't know really, that's just the general sense I get from others.

 

I appreciate your perspective. Thank you