820 réponses à ce sujet

[Immortalkickass]

How is this even up for debate? A fantasy RPG without race options? Blasphemy! 

 

Did you know even the Fallout fans are clamoring for race options in the next FO game? This is a series where the PC has always been human. IMO, there's no reason why New Vegas did not have this. It can only make the game better. 

 

I think DA:I implemented the race system very well. I played as an elf, and in all the appropriate situations, there were race-related dialogue options. Especially during the Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts quest, can anyone say that race does not matter here?

 

@PhroXenGold: I don't understand how different you want the races to be. They are all humanoids, so logically, an elf can do anything a Qunari can, besides lifting super heavy stuff. The only race difference in DA lore is dwarves can't be mages, and we all know that.

 

If you want race-based quests, then this is just wishful thinking. I'd like to have racial abilities like in Skyrim or WoW too, but I'm fine without it.

 

Or would you like to have race specific stats for each class? Like an Elf mage has the highest Magic stat, or Qun warriors having the highest Strength? Its good that they avoided this I think. Even if you're not a min-maxer, why would one pick a sub-par elf warrior when you can be a dwarf or Qun? If the difference is too great, people would complain about lack of balance, or 'forcing one into a certain race-class combo'. If the difference is negligible, people would still complain that its an illusion of choice. 

[Revan Reborn]

How is this even up for debate? A fantasy RPG without race options? Blasphemy! 

 

Did you know even the Fallout fans are clamoring for race options in the next FO game? This is a series where the PC has always been human. IMO, there's no reason why New Vegas did not have this. It can only make the game better. 

 

I think DA:I implemented the race system very well. I played as an elf, and in all the appropriate situations, there were race-related dialogue options. Especially during the Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts quest, can anyone say that race does not matter here?

 

@PhroXenGold: I don't understand how different you want the races to be. They are all humanoids, so logically, an elf can do anything a Qunari can, besides lifting super heavy stuff. The only race difference in DA lore is dwarves can't be mages, and we all know that.

 

If you want race-based quests, then this is just wishful thinking. I'd like to have racial abilities like in Skyrim or WoW too, but I'm fine without it.

 

Or would you like to have race specific stats for each class? Like an Elf mage has the highest Magic stat, or Qun warriors having the highest Strength? Its good that they avoided this I think. Even if you're not a min-maxer, why would one pick a sub-par elf warrior when you can be a dwarf or Qun? If the difference is too great, people would complain about lack of balance, or 'forcing one into a certain race-class combo'. If the difference is negligible, people would still complain that its an illusion of choice. 

Maybe because BioWare games are more about story than actually being an RPG? I know that realization can be somewhat troubling for some in this community.

 

What "race options" in Fallout? A ghoul? A super mutant? You do not even know how ridiculous that sounds...? Fallout is about being human in a post-apocalyptic United States after a nuclear holocaust. That is the only experience meant to be told. People can want all sorts of things. That doesn't make any of those wishes anymore reasoned or practical... On the contrary, adding "race options" in Fallout would be atrocious and not appropriate.

 

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I believe a more realistic understanding is race doesn't actually matter overall. Besides the occasional line of dialogue, race is ignored. The story is about the player being the Inquisitor, not a dwarf, human, qunari, or elf. The only thing including these other races does is take away resources from the main story to give players the false sense of variety and customization. In other words, BioWare cheapens their own game by trying to provide players with more control, which is really the point of this entire thread.

 

Racial abilities are never going to happen. BioWare games have never been that kind of experience nor should they ever. This isn't The Elder Scrolls and the sooner people stop trying to turn Dragon Age into The Elder Scrolls the better.

 

I'd just like to point out that since the release of KotOR, only two of BioWare's games have offered multi-race out of eight. That means multi-race has only been prevalent in a fourth of BioWare's games and it is still heavily controversial and far from ever being perfect. I don't know what BioWare plans on doing next with Dragon Age, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to a more defined character, such as Hawke, for the purposes of creating a more compelling story with true depth.

[PhroXenGold]

@PhroXenGold: I don't understand how different you want the races to be. They are all humanoids, so logically, an elf can do anything a Qunari can, besides lifting super heavy stuff. The only race difference in DA lore is dwarves can't be mages, and we all know that.

 

If you want race-based quests, then this is just wishful thinking. I'd like to have racial abilities like in Skyrim or WoW too, but I'm fine without it.

 

Or would you like to have race specific stats for each class? Like an Elf mage has the highest Magic stat, or Qun warriors having the highest Strength? Its good that they avoided this I think. Even if you're not a min-maxer, why would one pick a sub-par elf warrior when you can be a dwarf or Qun? If the difference is too great, people would complain about lack of balance, or 'forcing one into a certain race-class combo'. If the difference is negligible, people would still complain that its an illusion of choice. 

 

It's not a matter of "what you're physically capable of" but "what society will let you do". Elves and Qunari in particular should not be treated the same as humans. And yet, to all intents and purposes, they are. Sure, there's a few dialogues that vary, but fundamentally, an Elven Inqusitor can do everything a Human one can do with no extra effort. Which, given all we're told about how elves are treated in Thedas, is simply not believable.

 

It's shouldn't be a matter of people calling you "knife ear". It should be a matter of people outright refusing to deal with you because you are an elf. It shouldn't be a matter of a few disapproving looks at a Qunari Inquisitior, it should be a matter of a Qunari Inquisitor having to work much harder to earn the trust and support of Thedas. In the end, yes, a Dwarven Herald should be able to acheive everything a Human one can. But to do so, they should have to overcome additional obstances due to their race. Not just a few people saying vaguely insulting things, but actual gameplay differences. Story divergences. Varying content.

 

A human claiming to be the Herald of Andraste is bad enough, but could be acceptable to many of the followers of the Chantry. A "heathen oxman" claiming this on the other hand, should provoke a hell of a lot more of a reaction than just some people saying "well, I'm suprised the Herald is a Qunari". 

 

It's not just a matter of "race specific sub-quests", it's about the same content occuring differently based on your race. And not just dialogue, actual differentiated outcomes that result in gameplay and story differences.

 

Particularly given the whole "gaining power and influence on behalf of the Inquisition" theme of DA:I, it really sticks out how bad the races are implemented, and how much of a missed opportunity to do it well this was. Human non-mage should be the "easy mode" as it were. You're a noble of the dominant race, given how the world works, you should find is comparatively straight forward to get support. The further you go away from this, the harder it is to demonstrate to Thedas that you are a suitable person to lead the Inquisition and protect them from the Elder One. Getting them to follow a Dalish mage should be bloody difficult - not impossible of course, but much more challenging and time consuming than a Human noble. Wicked Eyes... touches on this idea with the starting court approval being higher for humans, but this kind of thing should be far more widespread in the game (as well as being harder to overcome, getting approval is trivial).

 

And yes, I do realise that this would be a huge amount of effort. But right now we're stuck in an inconsistent, un-immersive halfway house where we're told all about the racism but it never has any effect on the game. Which is why I consider DA:I's implementation of races a waste of resources - either do it properly, or use the time and money on other things.

 

 

edit:

Just something else I thought of, this actually ties in with something I've been pushing in several threads recently - that there needs to be much more divergence in the game. There needs to be more mutually exclusive stuff. The path through the game itself should vary more between playthoughs. And if this comes at the cost of overall game length, so be it. If there's to be 60 hours of content, I'd much rather a 40 hour game where 20 hours of that is different on my second playthrough than a 60hr game which plays the same barring some dialogue differences and a changed epilogue. And doing things like I describe with races would come under this. If the game actually treats my Elf differently from my human, as opposed to some cosmetic differences in dialogue, then that is new content that I'm experiencing on my second playthrough that I didn't experience on my first. Which is a very very good thing.

[Xetykins]

I don't know what BioWare plans on doing next with Dragon Age, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to a more defined character, such as Hawke, for the purposes of creating a more compelling story with true depth.

Thank goodness this is only your opinion. And thank goodness Bioware listened to their fans and gave us multi-race in Inquisition. I personally do not see Bioware going down the pre defined protagonist again looking at this game's success.

[Revan Reborn]

Thank goodness this is only your opinion. And thank goodness Bioware listened to their fans and gave us multi-race in Inquisition. I personally do not see Bioware going down the pre defined protagonist again looking at this game's success.

I would not overestimate DAI's success as it's largely distorted due to being available on five platforms (no other BioWare game has had this luxury). This was deliberate on BioWare/EA's part in order to maximize profits even if it was technologically at the expense of the game. BioWare knows Dragon Age is their weak property and confidence has been shaken for a variety of reasons. DAI helped rectify some mistakes, but the game is still far from perfect, and multi-race is one of the glaring errors that detracted from the experience. I'm merely positing that you should not be too comfortable with multi-race being a permanent feature due to its short history in BioWare games. It's very possible it may not be an option in the next Dragon Age game. That depends on the new direction the new lead writer takes the franchise.

[Morroian]

I don't know about anyone else but I really liked the silent protagonist because I was able to use my imagination something few people do today.

 

I use my imagination with a voiced protag thank you very much.

[unclee]

Thank goodness this is only your opinion. And thank goodness Bioware listened to their fans and gave us multi-race in Inquisition. I personally do not see Bioware going down the pre defined protagonist again looking at this game's success.

 

Inquisitions success wasn't because of how amazingly awesome the protagonist was. The Inquisitor was actually a pretty bland character. While Hawke may not have been the best protagonist, he was still far more interesting than the Inquisitor was.

[Oxytocin_Alice]

Both my Inquisitors have very rich head canon back stories. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Hawke and Shepard but the personal roleplaying opportunities are greater when you can fully set the parameters of your PC. I was actually quite happy with the race-defined "special" dialogue options. My Dalish Inquisitor had the option the engage some NPCs using lore based knowledge or cut in with a Dalish perspective. His interactions with Solas and Sera were particularly influenced by his Dalish heritage.

 

From a role playing perspective I felt DA:I really struck the balance between having enough canon to get you started but also leave enough for the player to create their own. Unlike Skyrim whose generic fantasy PC is just an empty husk and Geralt whose personality is so strong it just obliterates the need for actual dialogue options. (Whatever you choose he's still really off-putting IMO. Nice torso scars though... ) 

[PhroXenGold]

Inquisitions success wasn't because of how amazingly awesome the protagonist was. The Inquisitor was actually a pretty bland character. While Hawke may not have been the best protagonist, he was still far more interesting than the Inquisitor was.

 

I think a lot of the blandness comes down to the voice acting being so neutral. There's very little personailty to the delivery of the lines - and I'm pretty sure this must be an intentional thing, as all the voices suffer from it. All three "personalities" of Hawke, for each sex, have their own character. The Inquisitor never really has this.

[unclee]

I think a lot of the blandness comes down to the voice acting being so neutral. There's very little personailty to the delivery of the lines - and I'm pretty sure this must be an intentional thing, as all the voices suffer from it. All three "personalities" of Hawke, for each sex, have their own character. The Inquisitor never really has this.

 

That hits the nail on the head. The personalities of Hawke made the character much more interesting than the Inquisitor.

 

I know people like having their head canon, but if a character is well written and defined I shouldn't NEED to create my own head canon.

[Xetykins]

Inquisitions success wasn't because of how amazingly awesome the protagonist was. The Inquisitor was actually a pretty bland character. While Hawke may not have been the best protagonist, he was still far more interesting than the Inquisitor was.

oh I am not a fan of the Inquisitor. I'm not even defending the multi race from the Inquisition's point of view but Origins. However, there must be a lot of requests for it since Bioware scrapped their original "human only again" protagonist to multi race.

But honestly, don't you guys have enough games.out there who offers pre determined toons? Dragon Age is only one of the very few single player rpg, who offers this feature. I'd be very sad to see it go.

[PhroXenGold]

Just something to add to my previous posts, I'm certainly not against including a wide range of races in an RPG. What I object to is creating a world in which the lore says that race is a major factor, but then making it barely more then cosmetic in how the game actually plays. Doing this is inconsistent and immersion breaking.

[Tex]

It's not a matter of "what you're physically capable of" but "what society will let you do". Elves and Qunari in particular should not be treated the same as humans. And yet, to all intents and purposes, they are. Sure, there's a few dialogues that vary, but fundamentally, an Elven Inqusitor can do everything a Human one can do with no extra effort. Which, given all we're told about how elves are treated in Thedas, is simply not believable.
 
It's shouldn't be a matter of people calling you "knife ear". It should be a matter of people outright refusing to deal with you because you are an elf. It shouldn't be a matter of a few disapproving looks at a Qunari Inquisitior, it should be a matter of a Qunari Inquisitor having to work much harder to earn the trust and support of Thedas. In the end, yes, a Dwarven Herald should be able to acheive everything a Human one can. But to do so, they should have to overcome additional obstances due to their race. Not just a few people saying vaguely insulting things, but actual gameplay differences. Story divergences. Varying content.
 
A human claiming to be the Herald of Andraste is bad enough, but could be acceptable to many of the followers of the Chantry. A "heathen oxman" claiming this on the other hand, should provoke a hell of a lot more of a reaction than just some people saying "well, I'm suprised the Herald is a Qunari". 
 
It's not just a matter of "race specific sub-quests", it's about the same content occuring differently based on your race. And not just dialogue, actual differentiated outcomes that result in gameplay and story differences.
 
Particularly given the whole "gaining power and influence on behalf of the Inquisition" theme of DA:I, it really sticks out how bad the races are implemented, and how much of a missed opportunity to do it well this was. Human non-mage should be the "easy mode" as it were. You're a noble of the dominant race, given how the world works, you should find is comparatively straight forward to get support. The further you go away from this, the harder it is to demonstrate to Thedas that you are a suitable person to lead the Inquisition and protect them from the Elder One. Getting them to follow a Dalish mage should be bloody difficult - not impossible of course, but much more challenging and time consuming than a Human noble. Wicked Eyes... touches on this idea with the starting court approval being higher for humans, but this kind of thing should be far more widespread in the game (as well as being harder to overcome, getting approval is trivial).
 
And yes, I do realise that this would be a huge amount of effort. But right now we're stuck in an inconsistent, un-immersive halfway house where we're told all about the racism but it never has any effect on the game. Which is why I consider DA:I's implementation of races a waste of resources - either do it properly, or use the time and money on other things.
 
 
edit:
Just something else I thought of, this actually ties in with something I've been pushing in several threads recently - that there needs to be much more divergence in the game. There needs to be more mutually exclusive stuff. The path through the game itself should vary more between playthoughs. And if this comes at the cost of overall game length, so be it. If there's to be 60 hours of content, I'd much rather a 40 hour game where 20 hours of that is different on my second playthrough than a 60hr game which plays the same barring some dialogue differences and a changed epilogue. And doing things like I describe with races would come under this. If the game actually treats my Elf differently from my human, as opposed to some cosmetic differences in dialogue, then that is new content that I'm experiencing on my second playthrough that I didn't experience on my first. Which is a very very good thing.

I was going to add a like but then you mentioned that the races were a waste so I couldn't so I agree on everything you've written except the races being a waste.

[Immortalkickass]

I think a lot of the blandness comes down to the voice acting being so neutral. There's very little personailty to the delivery of the lines - and I'm pretty sure this must be an intentional thing, as all the voices suffer from it. All three "personalities" of Hawke, for each sex, have their own character. The Inquisitor never really has this.

Totally this. FemHawkes voice acting was brilliant, while Female inquisitor was pretty bland. 

[Gothfather]

DA4 needs to let the player create his own character. Not create one for him and force the player to play a set character as a good guy.

 

DA4 doesn't NEED to do anything of the sort. You simply want it to be so because that is your SUBJECTIVE opinion. RPGs do not require a blank slate PC nor do they require a fully formed character. An RPG doesn't require to give you an option to be a bad guy nor does it require you to be a good guy.

 

RPGs are not a rigidly defined genre when it comes to how PCs are made or portrayed. You can have as little predefined character as the Elder Scrolls or a well and detailed predefined character as Geralt of Rivia of the Witcher series. Both of these examples show just how great a spectrum an RPG can have with regards to it approaches the PC. Neither is the "right" way or the "wrong" way to make an RPG.

 

The range of options for a player should be governed by the story. The story trumps all. You may prefer or desire DA4 to be X but it is not required to be made to your SUBJECTIVE whims.

[Gothfather]

I think a lot of the blandness comes down to the voice acting being so neutral. There's very little personailty to the delivery of the lines - and I'm pretty sure this must be an intentional thing, as all the voices suffer from it. All three "personalities" of Hawke, for each sex, have their own character. The Inquisitor never really has this.

I would have to agree. The sarcastic Hawke (Female) was incredible in my opinion for just this reason.

 

It is my opinion that DA2 had it right and wrong when it came to conversations.

 

It had it right when your conversations choices shaped the characters personality so you could create the Diplomatic hawke, Sarcastic Hawke ect. but it failed when it tied these to unlocking conversation options. Personality should not be tied to game mechanics because that creates a situation where players are picking X choice not because they feel it will give them the best enjoyment to respond this way but because they don't want to hamper their success in the game for a future option. This is even more pronounced with the Renegade/paragon "I win" dialogue response, where going "all in" was the only option.

 

I would like to see a PC more in line with Hawke in future DA games in terms of my conversation choices shape the personality and the voice actors are actually given licence to ACT. It seems counter productive to hire professional actors and then hamper their ability to act.

[Cyonan]

I actually liked the amount of dialogue options for the Inquisitor, and being able to fill in a lot of little details. The only thing I'd criticize is that pretty much no matter what, you have to be a diplomatic leader. My original idea for my character was that she was going to be unsure of herself in a leadership position and grow into it in time, but the game almost immediately decided that she knew exactly what to do and say.

 

Hawke is probably the second best as there's a good amount of personality, even if you are only able to pick one of three different Hawkes to play as.

 

Shep I found to be the worst, because there's only two paths to go as and neither have a ton of personality. Your squadmates are infinitely more interesting than Shep is. I would also not be sad to see the Paragon/Renegade "I win this conversation" interrupt buttons go away in the next game.

 

Honestly I don't mind the Warden being silent, although I know it's never coming back in a BioWare game. I still have games like Divinity, Shadowrun, or PoE if I want to have the silent character with a lot more RP dialogue.

[berelinde]

I would not overestimate DAI's success as it's largely distorted due to being available on five platforms (no other BioWare game has had this luxury). This was deliberate on BioWare/EA's part in order to maximize profits even if it was technologically at the expense of the game. BioWare knows Dragon Age is their weak property and confidence has been shaken for a variety of reasons. DAI helped rectify some mistakes, but the game is still far from perfect, and multi-race is one of the glaring errors that detracted from the experience. I'm merely positing that you should not be too comfortable with multi-race being a permanent feature due to its short history in BioWare games. It's very possible it may not be an option in the next Dragon Age game. That depends on the new direction the new lead writer takes the franchise.

Wait, what?

 

OK, I'm a a pretty big fan of the human protagonist, but the emphasized statement above is hardly accurate.

 

Baldur's Gate: protagonist may be a human, elf, half-elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling, or half-orc

Baldur's Gate II: ditto

Neverwinter Nights: ditto

Icewind Dale: ditto

Planescape: Torment: fixed protagonist

Dragon Age: protagonist may be a human, elf, or dwarf

Dragon Age II: protagonist is human

Dragon Age Inquisition: protagonist may be a human, elf, dwarf, or qunari

 

In BioWare's fantasy RPGs, the availability of multiple racial options is the norm, not the exception.

[In Exile]

It's not a matter of "what you're physically capable of" but "what society will let you do". Elves and Qunari in particular should not be treated the same as humans. And yet, to all intents and purposes, they are. Sure, there's a few dialogues that vary, but fundamentally, an Elven Inqusitor can do everything a Human one can do with no extra effort. Which, given all we're told about how elves are treated in Thedas, is simply not believable.

 

It's shouldn't be a matter of people calling you "knife ear". It should be a matter of people outright refusing to deal with you because you are an elf. It shouldn't be a matter of a few disapproving looks at a Qunari Inquisitior, it should be a matter of a Qunari Inquisitor having to work much harder to earn the trust and support of Thedas. In the end, yes, a Dwarven Herald should be able to acheive everything a Human one can. But to do so, they should have to overcome additional obstances due to their race. Not just a few people saying vaguely insulting things, but actual gameplay differences. Story divergences. Varying content.

 

A human claiming to be the Herald of Andraste is bad enough, but could be acceptable to many of the followers of the Chantry. A "heathen oxman" claiming this on the other hand, should provoke a hell of a lot more of a reaction than just some people saying "well, I'm suprised the Herald is a Qunari". 

 

It's not just a matter of "race specific sub-quests", it's about the same content occuring differently based on your race. And not just dialogue, actual differentiated outcomes that result in gameplay and story differences.

 

Particularly given the whole "gaining power and influence on behalf of the Inquisition" theme of DA:I, it really sticks out how bad the races are implemented, and how much of a missed opportunity to do it well this was. Human non-mage should be the "easy mode" as it were. You're a noble of the dominant race, given how the world works, you should find is comparatively straight forward to get support. The further you go away from this, the harder it is to demonstrate to Thedas that you are a suitable person to lead the Inquisition and protect them from the Elder One. Getting them to follow a Dalish mage should be bloody difficult - not impossible of course, but much more challenging and time consuming than a Human noble. Wicked Eyes... touches on this idea with the starting court approval being higher for humans, but this kind of thing should be far more widespread in the game (as well as being harder to overcome, getting approval is trivial).

 

And yes, I do realise that this would be a huge amount of effort. But right now we're stuck in an inconsistent, un-immersive halfway house where we're told all about the racism but it never has any effect on the game. Which is why I consider DA:I's implementation of races a waste of resources - either do it properly, or use the time and money on other things.

 

 

edit:

Just something else I thought of, this actually ties in with something I've been pushing in several threads recently - that there needs to be much more divergence in the game. There needs to be more mutually exclusive stuff. The path through the game itself should vary more between playthoughs. And if this comes at the cost of overall game length, so be it. If there's to be 60 hours of content, I'd much rather a 40 hour game where 20 hours of that is different on my second playthrough than a 60hr game which plays the same barring some dialogue differences and a changed epilogue. And doing things like I describe with races would come under this. If the game actually treats my Elf differently from my human, as opposed to some cosmetic differences in dialogue, then that is new content that I'm experiencing on my second playthrough that I didn't experience on my first. Which is a very very good thing.

 

The setting does not support the form of virulent racism that you seem to think exists. It simply doesn't. This is why you don't get mobs with pitchforks out to kill the IB. Yeah, there's social prejudice in the sense that you can't be a noble or they'll look down on you, but the levels of racism in DA are incredibly subdued. It would actually be a radical step back from how NPCs are portrayed if Bioware suddenly started to throw in as much discrimination as you want. 

 

You keep talking about "additional obstacles", but all that it amounts to is "throw in more racists in positions of power."

[In Exile]

Wait, what?

 

OK, I'm a a pretty big fan of the human protagonist, but the emphasized statement above is hardly accurate.

 

Baldur's Gate: protagonist may be a human, elf, half-elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling, or half-orc

Baldur's Gate II: ditto

Neverwinter Nights: ditto

Icewind Dale: ditto

Planescape: Torment: fixed protagonist

Dragon Age: protagonist may be a human, elf, or dwarf

Dragon Age II: protagonist is human

Dragon Age Inquisition: protagonist may be a human, elf, dwarf, or qunari

 

In BioWare's fantasy RPGs, the availability of multiple racial options is the norm, not the exception.

 

Err... those aren't Bioware RPGs. Bioware's ratio is about 50:50. 

 

BG1 - race. 

BG2 - race.

NWN1 - race.

KotOR - human only.

JE - human only.

ME1 - human only.

DA:O - race.

ME2 - human only.

DA2 - human only.

ME3 - human only.

DAI - race. 

[Revan Reborn]

Wait, what?

 

OK, I'm a a pretty big fan of the human protagonist, but the emphasized statement above is hardly accurate.

 

Baldur's Gate: protagonist may be a human, elf, half-elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling, or half-orc

Baldur's Gate II: ditto

Neverwinter Nights: ditto

Icewind Dale: ditto

Planescape: Torment: fixed protagonist

Dragon Age: protagonist may be a human, elf, or dwarf

Dragon Age II: protagonist is human

Dragon Age Inquisition: protagonist may be a human, elf, dwarf, or qunari

 

In BioWare's fantasy RPGs, the availability of multiple racial options is the norm, not the exception.

I'm am referring to the modern BioWare, not the one that existed twenty years ago. The BioWare that made Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights doesn't exist anymore. Dragon Age was the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which is also why Origins likely had multi-race to start. Otherwise, BioWare has been human only in most of their games. It's interesting how you disregard KotOR, JE, and the entire ME trilogy in your listing of BioWare titles...

 

My point still stands. A majority of BioWare's current games are human-only. Only two out of three DA titles have featured multi-race, and DAI wasn't even supposed to include it. Again, there is no reason to be so comfortable that this is a feature that will be retained. Game development has changed since twenty years ago. Priorities change. As has already been long established in this threat, multi-race cripples the quality of the story, which is why BioWare has debated tossing the concept out altogether.

[Cyonan]

My point still stands. A majority of BioWare's current games are human-only. Only two out of three DA titles have featured multi-race, and DAI wasn't even supposed to include it. Again, there is no reason to be so comfortable that this is a feature that will be retained. Game development has changed since twenty years ago. Priorities change. As has already been long established in this threat, multi-race cripples the quality of the story, which is why BioWare has debated tossing the concept out altogether.

 

As long as it remains a feature that a large portion of the fanbase wants, I imagine they'll keep giving us the option to play as non human races.

 

People are even asking for it in the next Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 and 3 just couldn't change because you had to play as Shep who was pre-defined as human only in the first game.

 

Looking at Dragon Age 2 and the Mass Effect trilogy compared to Origins and Inquisition, I have to say that I'm not seeing how multiple races cripples the story.

[ioannisdenton]

Hawke? Story? Engaging? You sure have some seriously low standards.

hawkes plot was the best in series. Not the cliche origins had

[Revan Reborn]

As long as it remains a feature that a large portion of the fanbase wants, I imagine they'll keep giving us the option to play as non human races.

 

People are even asking for it in the next Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 and 3 just couldn't change because you had to play as Shep who was pre-defined as human only in the first game.

 

Looking at Dragon Age 2 and the Mass Effect trilogy compared to Origins and Inquisition, I have to say that I'm not seeing how multiple races cripples the story.

Actually, I believe you heavily overestimate the likelihood of non-human races, specifically in Mass Effect. I'll explain:

 

Perhaps you haven't played SWTOR, but there is a reason that every race in the game is humanoid and all can speak basic. It's deliberate and part of BioWare's design. You'll never be able to play as a darkspawn, elcor, hanar, volus, vorcha, demon, or anything of the sort as a main protagonist. Why? Limitations. The reason why many perceive BioWare is so "pro-human" is because humans actually have a lot more variety and flexibility than most races even though many argue humans are "stale" and "generic."

 

Whether we look at diversity in looks, a wide range of animations, the ability to have romances, speaking the common tongue, there are many reasons why humans are preferred over anything else. This is why there will never be a playable jawa, ewok, wookiee, or anything in SWTOR that cannot fit the basic standards BioWare needs of a protagonist in the story. The same applies to Mass Effect, which is why it's unlikely you'll ever see multi-race. With DA, BioWare can get away with it a bit more as qunari/elf/dwarf are just fantasy humans. Even with that cosmetic distinction, it has been shown that race rarely matters and overall has little impact or influence on the story.

 

As others have stated, if race doesn't matter and only adversely affects the story because BioWare cripples the voice acting and dialogue, I don't see how it's a benefit to anyone except those who will headcanon regardless. If you want to fabricate your own story and completely contradict what BioWare games do, that's your prerogative. However, I purchase BioWare games because I want to see their stories unfold with amazing characters. Multi-race merely is counterproductive and hurts why many love BioWare games to start.

[PhroXenGold]

The setting does not support the form of virulent racism that you seem to think exists. It simply doesn't. This is why you don't get mobs with pitchforks out to kill the IB. Yeah, there's social prejudice in the sense that you can't be a noble or they'll look down on you, but the levels of racism in DA are incredibly subdued. It would actually be a radical step back from how NPCs are portrayed if Bioware suddenly started to throw in as much discrimination as you want. 

 

You keep talking about "additional obstacles", but all that it amounts to is "throw in more racists in positions of power."

 

 On the contrary, racism is rampant in Thedas. It's not the obvious, overt "lynch the non-humans" racism that you might expect, but pay attention to the dialogue and background information, and a more subtle, insidious level of racism is very common. Casual use of racist language, automatic assumption of station based on race, it's everywhere. Hell, go start an elven character, get to Haven and speak to the quartermaster. She assumes you must be a servant simply because you're an elf. It's that kind of racism that is mostly seen in Thedas. When you have a society in which such assumptions are automatic, you cannot claim that racism doesn't exist. It's deeply rooted in Thedas' society. And in general, I think it is really well written and implemented. It makes the world more believable and immersive, as it reflects the kind of racism we see in our world far more than a more overt form would.

 

And yet, when it comes to the PC, it's glossed over completely. The thing is, the Inquisitor is someone in a position of power. And while a society with with the sort of attitudes to race we see in Thedas will accept other races when they are in the proper position, it is not in any way consistent with the way the world is presented for them to readily accept members of such races holding significant power (hell, just look at the crap Obama gets for being black....). An elven servant or peasant? Fine. An elf in charge of one of the most powerful organisations in Southern Thedas? That's not going to go down easily. A qunari mercenary? No major issues. A qunari proclaimed as the Herald of Andraste? That's gonna cause trouble. And yet it doesn't. There's a few bits of dialogue, but nothing more. Nothing about the game changes. And that is simply not consistent with the world Bioware have created. Whether through laziness, lack of resources, or lack of courage, they have failed to apply the logical consequence of the racism present in Thedas to the player character.