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Which romance is better from a narrative and thematic standpoint for a casteless dwarf?


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#1
andy6915

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Morrigan or Leliana?

 

One is a very exotic women with strange powers (especially for a dwarf since they have no real contact with magic at all) and a very pessimistic world view, and both had a terrible childhood with abusive mothers and being hated by nearly everyone (Morrigan for being an apostate and me for being casteless). Neither of them have had what would be called romantic feelings toward another before either. Difference is, he does good and moral despite his pessimism whereas she is... Well... Morrigan (disapproves +20).

 

The other is a more open and easygoing woman with a dark and quite criminal past not all that different from your life working in the Carta, but also very different people since she's an optimist and Andrastian and the casteless (well my casteless) is pessimistic and practices ancestor worship even if their religion says the casteless are abandoned by the ancestors. She had a great childhood, whereas the casteless's childhood sucked in many ways. But those differences could help bring them together, her sunny disposition and optimism helps heal the scars being casteless leaves on one's heart.

 

I like both romances and have done them before, but I can't decide which will be fitting for the origin I'm choosing. Both seem like they could work.


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#2
MouseHopper

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Personally, I would choose Morrigan.  A) because I just prefer Morrigan.  But also B: because of exactly what you described above regarding both of your backgrounds.  You have a certain commonality of spirit.  I think you will sync better.  And C) From my perspective romance with Morrigan is likely to be more interesting, especially if you are a dwarf.


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#3
andy6915

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Personally, I would choose Morrigan.  A) because I just prefer Morrigan.  But also B: because of exactly what you described above regarding both of your backgrounds.  You have a certain commonality of spirit.  I think you will sync better.  And C) From my perspective romance with Morrigan is likely to be more interesting, especially if you are a dwarf.

 

On the note of the Morrigan romance, it still confuses me that you can impregnate her. I thought that the lore is that it's just elves that end up having human children if the 2 races mate, but apparently the same thing happens for dwarf-human children. Human genes must be really dominant in the DA lore.

 

Anyway, thanks for the response. Still want to see more replies though, more opinions can only help my decision along.


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#4
sylvanaerie

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On the note of the Morrigan romance, it still confuses me that you can impregnate her. I thought that the lore is that it's just elves that end up having human children if the 2 races mate, but apparently the same thing happens for dwarf-human children. Human genes must be really dominant in the DA lore.

 

Anyway, thanks for the response. Still want to see more replies though, more opinions can only help my decision along.

 

Gaider has posted (waaaay back when this was discussed) that dwarf/human unions are possible, the result being a 'half dwarf' type child, as opposed to a elf-blooded human (like Alistair or Feynriel).

 

As to Leliana vs Morrigan, I found Leliana more enjoyable as a romance in Origins (I don't do angst--and the Morrigan romance has that in spades), but in terms of long term 'payoff', the Morrigan one might be more satisfying (because of dialogues with Morrigan and the son your warden and she share in Inquisition).


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#5
andy6915

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Gaider has posted (waaaay back when this was discussed) that dwarf/human unions are possible, the result being a 'half dwarf' type child, as opposed to a elf-blooded human (like Alistair or Feynriel).
 
As to Leliana vs Morrigan, I found Leliana more enjoyable as a romance in Origins (I don't do angst--and the Morrigan romance has that in spades), but in terms of long term 'payoff', the Morrigan one might be more satisfying (because of dialogues with Morrigan and the son your warden and she share in Inquisition).


I care more about the romance as far as DAO is concerned, the bigger pay off would also mean never playing a female Warden again too because I'd miss that same payoff... And that isn't going to happen, I play female more than male.

I did some quick research on the half dwarf thing. They result in tall dwarfs or short humans? Then I bet I would be mistaken for a half dwarf, I'm only about 5 foot or maybe 5 foot and 1 inch (and I'm a GUY). I guess it means Morrigan's child is going to be a really short guy like I am, and like me he'll still have normal human proportions despite his size. He obviously isn't the tall dwarf type, his arms aren't nearly long enough for that and his legs aren't nearly short enough.


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#6
springacres

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If you're going to go with an opposite-gender romance, then I feel like Morrigan makes more sense.  She's an outcast herself, thrust into a world she doesn't completely understand, and there's more narrative continuity available through Witch Hunt and Inquisition.  I haven't tried either her or Leliana's romances yet, though, because Zevran. <3

 

On that note, I actually feel like the Zevran romance makes the most overall sense for a casteless dwarf of either gender.  He's more worldly than Morrigan, but he is also an outcast, and like a casteless dwarf he's living in a world that marginalizes him because of his ancestry.  But if you're not interested in a same-gender romance for this character, then I think Morrigan is the way to go.


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#7
andy6915

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If you're going to go with an opposite-gender romance, then I feel like Morrigan makes more sense.  She's an outcast herself, thrust into a world she doesn't completely understand, and there's more narrative continuity available through Witch Hunt and Inquisition.  I haven't tried either her or Leliana's romances yet, though, because Zevran. <3

 

On that note, I actually feel like the Zevran romance makes the most overall sense for a casteless dwarf of either gender.  He's more worldly than Morrigan, but he is also an outcast, and like a casteless dwarf he's living in a world that marginalizes him because of his ancestry.  But if you're not interested in a same-gender romance for this character, then I think Morrigan is the way to go.

 

I do love the Zevran romance, it's probably one of my most common ones. But I want to play as a male dwarf, and I'm not into a male gay romance. Not because of bigotry, my mother is a lesbian and my whole childhood was always having 2 mothers (well that was rather personal to just say on a public forum :whistle:). It more comes down to me wanting a relationship that I don't mind imagining the sex of, so it has to be... Well, it has to be hot to me on a personal level. And why do I want it to be a male dwarf? My last playthrough was as a female, as was my last DA2 playthrough, so I want to mix it up a bit. Besides, I like male light armor more than the female light armor since the female version has an impractical big open spot near the neck and shoulders (and I plan to be a rogue who sticks to light-medium armor) whereas males get much more practical armor. And don't even get me started on how much I hate female Dalish armor, though a dwarf wearing Dalish armor would be more irony than I think I could take.

 

But if I did pick a female casteless, he would be a great choice. Both had crappy and abusive childhoods, both have had to kill people because the criminal organization that practically owned them told them to, both wanted out of said criminal organizations, both kinda enjoy the artistry behind the assassin specialization and both fight really dirty, both try not to mix business and pleasure because it makes working in the Carta or Crows easier on the conscious, both take pleasures as they come since they never expect anything more... It sounds like they would be perfect for each other. If I change my mind on my dwarf's gender, Zevran will definitely be considered. What the hell would their children look like, elf and dwarf?


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#8
Gilsa

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When Witch Hunt was about to come out, I made a dwarf commoner just to see where the Old God baby storyline would go and if the dwarf parentage would ever be acknowledged in subsequent games. I wasn't serious about the character, mainly doing it for science, but their romance both surprised and grew on me. They had more going for them as a couple than I anticipated:

 

- Both are outcasts and abrasive in their own ways.

- Both have mother issues.

- Morrigan is a shapeshifter so I couldn't really see her ever having any reservations of dating outside of her race.

- Both are also pragmatic. (You could RP Brosca as idealistic or as having a heart of gold perhaps, but the origin lends itself to a hardened character.)

 

My memory's hazy on the Leliana romance, but I do remember her delighting over shoes and having a nug pet (food source for commoners, potential pets for nobles). If that kind of class divide adds charm to a casteless romance, there's a lot of potential there.  It seems that Morrigan has more in common overall with a casteless dwarf while Leliana might be more of a "opposites attract" kind of story.


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#9
springacres

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I do love the Zevran romance, it's probably one of my most common ones. But I want to play as a male dwarf, and I'm not into a male gay romance. Not because of bigotry, my mother is a lesbian and my whole childhood was always having 2 mothers (well that was rather personal to just say on a public forum :whistle:). It more comes down to me wanting a relationship that I don't mind imagining the sex of, so it has to be... Well, it has to be hot to me on a personal level. 

I totally get that.  I'm the same way - straight female, would have a hard time getting into an F/F romance not because I disapprove (I don't) but because it doesn't appeal to me on a personal level.

I definitely need to try out Morrigan's romance arc, though.  I hear she ends up being one of the more complex characters in the game.


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#10
Dutchess

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If your casteless still clings to the "everything to survive" mentality I'd say Morrigan is the way to go. If not (and you do mention he leans more towards trying to do good) I would say Leliana. I have almost completed my male casteless playthrough and he's romancing Leliana. He was pretty devoted to just being Beraht's lackey in his origin, but once he got out and got the chance to explore this whole new world he barely new anything about, he softened and was mostly just curious about everything.

 

It was surprisingly fun to play him because for once it really suited the character to ask every available question and it did not mean he was stupid and never paid attention to what happened around him (well, except for asking "what's a Paragorn?" back in Orzammar. Come on, even he knows that). He simply never had any education and only knew Orzammar's slums and crime. 

 

So with that new, open mindset and suddenly in the position of esteem (especially compared to his previous casteless status) and the chance to be a hero of sorts instead of a crime boss' henchman, I feel the rather uncomplicated process of falling in love with Leliana suited the character well. He hardly understood her love for clothes and shoes, but hey, that's (human) women for you. He did end up hardening her, basically because he didn't feel you need to be ashamed of a criminal past and he appreciated a woman with a little more fire than a devout Chantry sister (well, that, and he wanted that threesome, haha).


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#11
andy6915

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If your casteless still clings to the "everything to survive" mentality I'd say Morrigan is the way to go. If not (and you do mention he leans more towards trying to do good) I would say Leliana. I have almost completed my male casteless playthrough and he's romancing Leliana. He was pretty devoted to just being Beraht's lackey in his origin, but once he got out and got the chance to explore this whole new world he barely new anything about, he softened and was mostly just curious about everything.

 

He thinks of it like this:

 

"Life is sh!t and sucks, so it's better to at least not to add more sh!t to it yourself. And if you can, maybe come with a scooper and pick some of the sh!t up while you're at it, maybe try to make the world a little less sucky."

 

He's a pessimist with a low opinion of the world and society, but that very opinion is what leads him to try to do good. That contrasts with Morrigan, who seems to think that the world sucking means you shouldn't even try to do anything good with it.

 

 

It was surprisingly fun to play him because for once it really suited the character to ask every available question and it did not mean he was stupid and never paid attention to what happened around him (well, except for asking "what's a Paragorn?" back in Orzammar. Come on, even he knows that). He simply never had any education and only knew Orzammar's slums and crime. 

 

Exactly, mostly for human lands. What's a Templar? What's a mage? What in the flying hell is this weird ass animal with the stubby tail and sharp teeth that has a look of intelligence in its eyes? Isn't the Chantry that religion that says Darkspawn came from some city of a specific color I forget? What's a Dalish? Do Elves really have knife ears, can they shank people with them? What's so bad about blood magic, it sounds just as weird and freaky as any other form of magic? What's an apostate? What's the fade? What's an abomination, a darkspawn variant? What's an arl? Who's Loghain. Calain is married? What in the flaming ancestors is an UNdead, how does that make sense? What's an ocean? WHAT IN THE FLYING F*CK IS THIS WATER FALLING FROM THE SKY I'M GOING TO DIE THE SKY IS FALLING THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!... It's rain? This is NORMAL?! WHAT IS THIS SLOW FALLING WHITE STUFF THAT IS LITERALLY FREEZING ME?! Snow? It's like rain that is frozen? Wouldn't that be more like frozen raindrops? There's a word for that? Hale? What makes snow different from hale? Oh look, a hale rune! What are demons? Do they taste good when cooked? What are the weird brown objects with weird fleshy green things hanging off them? They're called trees? Why are these trees trying to kill us and why did no one tell me they have the potential to go murderous? Why are these hairy-mabari things swarming everywhere and trying to eat our faces off? Wolves? WHAT IS THAT BIG GLOWING WHITE OBJECT IN THE NIGHT SKY, IS IT GOING TO CRASH INTO US?!?!

 

And thus on and on goes an uneducated casteless who is about as ignorant as a person can possibly be. Very smart and cunning, but so dang uninformed about just about anything that is borders on ridiculous. It's almost charming.

 

So with that new, open mindset and suddenly in the position of esteem (especially compared to his previous casteless status) and the chance to be a hero of sorts instead of a crime boss' henchman, I feel the rather uncomplicated process of falling in love with Leliana suited the character well. He hardly understood her love for clothes and shoes, but hey, that's (human) women for you. He did end up hardening her, basically because he didn't feel you need to be ashamed of a criminal past and he appreciated a woman with a little more fire than a devout Chantry sister (well, that, and he wanted that threesome, haha).

 

So ultimately, your post is a vote for Leliana? Alright then. I'm still quite a ways from starting my planned casteless playthrough, so don't feel like I'm about to choose any minute now. I've got plenty of time left before this topic stops needing more opinions in it. So far, more people have said Morrigan whereas it looks like only you and someone above said Leliana. I'm actually surprised it isn't more even. Guess there's more fans of the Morrigan one than I expected.


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#12
phaonica

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Exactly, mostly for human lands. What's a Templar? What's a mage? What in the flying hell is this weird ass animal with the stubby tail and sharp teeth that has a look of intelligence in its eyes? Isn't the Chantry that religion that says Darkspawn came from some city of a specific color I forget? What's a Dalish? Do Elves really have knife ears, can they shank people with them? What's so bad about blood magic, it sounds just as weird and freaky as any other form of magic? What's an apostate? What's the fade? What's an abomination, a darkspawn variant? What's an arl? Who's Loghain. Calain is married? What in the flaming ancestors is an UNdead, how does that make sense? What's an ocean? WHAT IN THE FLYING F*CK IS THIS WATER FALLING FROM THE SKY I'M GOING TO DIE THE SKY IS FALLING THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!... It's rain? This is NORMAL?! WHAT IS THIS SLOW FALLING WHITE STUFF THAT IS LITERALLY FREEZING ME?! Snow? It's like rain that is frozen? Wouldn't that be more like frozen raindrops? There's a word for that? Hale? What makes snow different from hale? Oh look, a hale rune! What are demons? Do they taste good when cooked? What are the weird brown objects with weird fleshy green things hanging off them? They're called trees? Why are these trees trying to kill us and why did no one tell me they have the potential to go murderous? Why are these hairy-mabari things swarming everywhere and trying to eat our faces off? Wolves? WHAT IS THAT BIG GLOWING WHITE OBJECT IN THE NIGHT SKY, IS IT GOING TO CRASH INTO US?!?!

 

I think a character thinking like this is more likely to get along / have chemistry with Leliana than Morrigan.


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#13
springacres

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While I stand by what I said in my previous post, ultimately, it boils down to your character and how he turns out.



#14
andy6915

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I think a character thinking like this is more likely to get along / have chemistry with Leliana than Morrigan.

 

Why? That's just what being an uneducated dwarf from Dust Town will be like on the surface. Is it because you thin Morrigan would have no tolerance for someone lacking in a lot of basic knowledge? Honestly, it really doesn't make him that different from how a new player to this series will act when they're asking all kinds of questions that should already be known. For that reason, I actually think that the casteless dwarf is the best choice for a first time player since their own character's level of ignorance generally matches their own.

 

Anyway, I'm not shooting down Leliana with this post. I'm just wondering why that specifically is why you say Leliana would be better. I mean Morrigan is/was pretty ignorant too, she didn't understand handshaking or how to eat at a dinner table or... A lot of things. She too was secluded and ignorant in things too... My character will just be a bit worse. And like a new player, they'llpick up on things rather quickly.


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#15
phaonica

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Why? That's just what being an uneducated dwarf from Dust Town will be like on the surface. Is it because you thin Morrigan would have no tolerance for someone lacking in a lot of basic knowledge? Honestly, it really doesn't make him that different from how a new player to this series will act when they're asking all kinds of questions that should already be known. For that reason, I actually think that the casteless dwarf is the best choice for a first time player since their own character's level of ignorance generally matches their own.

 

Anyway, I'm not shooting down Leliana with this post. I'm just wondering why that specifically is why you say Leliana would be better. I mean Morrigan is/was pretty ignorant too, she didn't understand handshaking or how to eat at a dinner table or... A lot of things. She too was secluded and ignorant in things too... My character will just be a bit worse. And like a new player, they'llpick up on things rather quickly.

 

I don't think it was the ignorance I thought that might put her off, but the tone that I read as kind of... chaotic, unmitigated high energy. I was thinking that Leliana was more likely to find that kind of energy charming, whereas Morrigan is very calm and controlled. That's just my impression, though. I could be wrong.



#16
andy6915

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I don't think it was the ignorance I thought that might put her off, but the tone that I read as kind of... chaotic, unmitigated high energy. I was thinking that Leliana was more likely to find that kind of energy charming, whereas Morrigan is very calm and controlled. That's just my impression, though. I could be wrong.

 

The excitement was to show panic. A dwarf who's already scared of the open sky would freak the hell out from rain if they didn't know about it, could easily trigger a panic reaction. And the big glowing moon would cause a similar thing, they know about the sun but know nothing of a big celestial body just outside of orbit. On the plus side, both things will be dealt with before Ostagar. The trip likely takes a week or 2, in which time they definitely went through night time and probably encountered rain since Howe in the human origins mentions his soldiers not being able to leave before the seasonal rains hit or something. So their freakout was off screen, and Duncan was the one that would have had to deal with it. Snow though, they'll first encounter at Soldiers Peak, so that one would actually be witnessed by the rest of the group. And the reaction to sylvans was less panicky and more annoyed and angry (hence the bolding instead of caps locking) that now they have to deal with every single tree in the forest being a potential threat they would need to stay wary of.


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#17
Cheilz

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I just finished a playthrough of a female casteless dwarf with Zevran and absolutely loved it.

 

My dwarf is immesely focused on survival - that's what life is about, for her - and started off as immensely practical (given that dwarven mothers tell horror stories about genlocks rather than fade spirits, she took the whole IT'S A BLIGHT thing better than most of my humans/elves). But as the playthrough went on she mellowed out a lot - back when she was in dust town with Leske, she was crude, rude, a bit rowdy, always up for some fun. That part of her began to show through after she got over the much of the insecurity of being a very small, uneducated dwarf expected to make important political decisions and give rousing speeches and deal with sensitive nobles (when at first, she'd rather have cut their throats and got on with it) in this incredibly alien and strange world with rain and forests and snow. Zevran's practicality + carpe diem attitude suited her down to a tee and helped her become more unguarded and trusting.

 

If you want to RP as a straight male, though (the only reason I ever do this is literally for Morrigan), I honestly think either Morrigan or Leliana could work depending on how your character turns out. Morrigan is intensely practical, and this could work for a cynical dwarf. I think your dwarf's "ignorant of everything" problem could be worked around depending on how secure/insecure they are about asking questions; a more proud character, or a character who is trying to keep the illusion of composure to stop them from breaking down, may stay tight-lipped and try and hide the fact that at the back of their mind is a voice wondering what the hell is wrong with these mages why are they mutating into flesh-eating monsters and abodinations and does that usually happen. I also think dwarf's relationship with magic affects your chances with her: if your warden is suspicious of magic, then I'd be disinclined to pick Morrigan, who would likely be dismissive of your attitude no matter how sensible and practical it is from a dwarf commoner's point of view. Morrigan has had a similarly sheltered upbringing as the warden - that could be a plus or a minus, depending on how judgemental she's feeling and how your character reacts to that.

 

Leliana could also work - I think for more open characters she'd be a more natural option, especially when hardened. She's much more relaxed about the warden's choices, as long as they aren't completely heineous and/or blasphemous, and won't call them a fool for throwing a raggedy old beggar a silver or two. Leliana has also the added bonus having travelled the world and seen different countries and places and cities: the warden hasn't, and that might be part of the allure - she's everything Orzammar isn't. She definitely lines up with the attitude of having seen and understood some of the more terrible parts of the world (she once had a pretty cut-throat attitude as a bard), but endeavouring to find and nuture the good in it despite that. Definitely more world-weary, although the initial 'cloistered Chantry nun' impression may put your character off. In terms of potential issues, if your dwarf is more closed off or cynical, your drawf might find her dreamy stories and pleasant chatter rather irritating than a light relief.

 

Essentially, it's up to you and what path you take with your character. You might find your character developing as you RP - that's common enough for me.


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#18
andy6915

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If you want to RP as a straight male, though (the only reason I ever do this is literally for Morrigan), I honestly think either Morrigan or Leliana could work depending on how your character turns out. Morrigan is intensely practical, and this could work for a cynical dwarf. I think your dwarf's "ignorant of everything" problem could be worked around depending on how secure/insecure they are about asking questions; a more proud character, or a character who is trying to keep the illusion of composure to stop them from breaking down, may stay tight-lipped and try and hide the fact that at the back of their mind is a voice wondering what the hell is wrong with these mages why are they mutating into flesh-eating monsters and abodinations and does that usually happen. I also think dwarf's relationship with magic affects your chances with her: if your warden is suspicious of magic, then I'd be disinclined to pick Morrigan, who would likely be dismissive of your attitude no matter how sensible and practical it is from a dwarf commoner's point of view. Morrigan has had a similarly sheltered upbringing as the warden - that could be a plus or a minus, depending on how judgemental she's feeling and how your character reacts to that.

 
He starts off perfectly okay with all types of magic, not seeing any problems with Morrigan's shape shifting for instance. They don't have ANY programming or propaganda from the Chantry that makes them distrust and dislike magic. Yet... They actually become more anti-magic over the course of the game, as magic related problems continue to pile up. Soldier's Peak's problem? A mage's fault. Redcliffe's problems? A mages fault. Circle tower problems? A mage's fault. Werewolf problem? A mage's fault. The only treaty quest that was messed up that wasn't caused by a mage was only the dwarven one, because of the obvious "dwarves can't use magic" thing. 3 out of 4 treaties issues that needed dealt with was magic and a mage's fault, and the only one that wasn't probably only wasn't because it was impossible anyway. So even without any Chantry teaching, they start to get very very irritated about how massive of problems magic can cause and how damned frequently it seems to be happening.
 
So they start pro-mage and pro-magic at first because they're practical and see usefulness in it, and become a lot more neutral-to-negative about it as more and more mage caused problems keeping getting in the way of obtaining allies with the treaties. Interestingly, the responses he gives to her magic questions that will get approval from her will happen earlier in the game before he starts veering to a more anti-magic view. So it's kinda weird, if he had the same views early game that he does in late game they might not have liked each other. Not to say he hates magic and mages, but he can see why people distrust it. Sort of. He blames human-dwarven-elven fallibility mostly, but realizes that the fallible traits we have can be so much worse if they have magic at their disposal on top of it. So individual mages who have a good head on their shoulders like Morrigan and Wynne, he doesn't mind. But he also realizes that magic itself is a cluster f*** and is ultimately glad his people can't use it, because he knows his people well enough to know that dwarves would have already destroyed their own society if dwarves were able to toss fireballs and merge with demons easily. Seriously, take dwarven culture and add magic... Utter chaos.
 
Summed up: starts completely okay with magic, ends wary of it after a strong pattern emerges of stupid mages causing nightmarish scenarios. He doesn't mind magic traditions or rituals like Morrigan's late-game one and doesn't mind mage allies, but does realize that mages and stupidity are a VERY BAD combination. Smart mages=awesome allies who are absolutely trustworthy, stupid mages=potential disasters.
 

Leliana could also work - I think for more open characters she'd be a more natural option, especially when hardened. She's much more relaxed about the warden's choices, as long as they aren't completely heineous and/or blasphemous, and won't call them a fool for throwing a raggedy old beggar a silver or two. Leliana has also the added bonus having travelled the world and seen different countries and places and cities: the warden hasn't, and that might be part of the allure - she's everything Orzammar isn't. She definitely lines up with the attitude of having seen and understood some of the more terrible parts of the world (she once had a pretty cut-throat attitude as a bard), but endeavouring to find and nuture the good in it despite that. Definitely more world-weary, although the initial 'cloistered Chantry nun' impression may put your character off. In terms of potential issues, if your dwarf is more closed off or cynical, your drawf might find her dreamy stories and pleasant chatter rather irritating than a light relief.


You see my problem, both can work very well with a casteless which makes deciding that much more difficult.

#19
Dutchess

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So ultimately, your post is a vote for Leliana? Alright then. I'm still quite a ways from starting my planned casteless playthrough, so don't feel like I'm about to choose any minute now. I've got plenty of time left before this topic stops needing more opinions in it. So far, more people have said Morrigan whereas it looks like only you and someone above said Leliana. I'm actually surprised it isn't more even. Guess there's more fans of the Morrigan one than I expected.

 

Not necessarily. I outlined my recent casteless and why Leliana worked well for him. But I did start my post saying it largely depends on the mindset of your character, because Morrigan's survivalist attitude can also match well. I have a casteless like that too, who started of wary of her because she was a mage (so opposite of what you're describing in you last post) and being able to turn into a large spider is some weird ****. But they ended up connecting on their practical attitude.

I think he will refuse to do the dark ritual when the time comes though, because that's suddenly another very weird, mysterious thing he's asked to do and Morrigan is being evasive with him while he thought against better judgment that he could trust her. If you want to make your playthrough more intense and sad, you could go that route, especially because you mention your dwarf will become increasingly distrustful of magic.



#20
andy6915

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Not necessarily. I outlined my recent casteless and why Leliana worked well for him. But I did start my post saying it largely depends on the mindset of your character, because Morrigan's survivalist attitude can also match well. I have a casteless like that too, who started of wary of her because she was a mage (so opposite of what you're describing in you last post) and being able to turn into a large spider is some weird ****. But they ended up connecting on their practical attitude.

I think he will refuse to do the dark ritual when the time comes though, because that's suddenly another very weird, mysterious thing he's asked to do and Morrigan is being evasive with him while he thought against better judgment that he could trust her. If you want to make your playthrough more intense and sad, you could go that route, especially because you mention your dwarf will become increasingly distrustful of magic.

 

No, I will NEVER do the death ending. The final being a funeral instead of the awesome victory celebration where you get to talk to everyone one final time would leave me with an empty feeling that would just sap all the fun I'd been having right out of the game. She pretty much tells you she offers you the ritual partly because she does indeed care about you and really really wants you to continue living, I don't distrust her after that. Especially in a romance, where there's no way she's faking how freak-out about accidentally falling in love with you since she sees it as a weakness.

 

And for the casteless, he sees a big distinction between and smart and stupid mages. Morrigan is very much a smart mage... Other than the times she blows the whole party up on accident because I have a bad habit of not fully checking her aim when I'm making her throw a fireball on nightmare difficulty :?. Other than that though, she's a smart mage who you can trust not to cause a cluster f***. She won't be tearing the veil or summoning demons or making blood curses that make werewolves with her ritual, so there's no reason to distrust her when she on no uncertain terms lays out exactly what the ritual will do.

 

Forget the harrowing, we should make an IQ test determine good mages from bad ones...



#21
andy6915

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So uh... I've started the casteless playthrough, but am not at all far yet. Any last minute posts before I get to camp for the first time and make my decision? Because there's no turning back once I decide, I don't want to deal with breaking it off with someone once I start.



#22
sylvanaerie

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I'm weird, but I enjoyed the 'catfighting' between interested Morrigan and Leliana so I flirted with the swamp witch and slept with her then gradually upped Leliana's approval till she was jealous of Morrigan (not high enough to make me break it off).  Finally forcing the issue later and ultimately agreeing when Morrigan said "I can't do this anymore" and finishing with Leliana.  This didn't fit all my PC's.  My King Cousland slept with Morrigan only for the DR. My Redeemer Cousland only romanced Leliana, and told Morrigan to take a hike.  The breakoff either gets you less disapproval or actually gets you approval from Morrigan--but don't quote me, it's been years since I last cracked open Origin with a male character.

 

I think both would fit well with a casteless, depending on your roleplay.  Just not sure how much of a 'happy' ending you want with the Warden.  If just playing Origins, none of the DLC's, for the 'happier' romance, definitely Leliana.  For more story integration and the idea that you can have a child with and be with Morrigan after your PC hunts her down in WH, there is that factor to consider on her side.  You say you want to consider only Origins...does that also include Witch Hunt?  



#23
andy6915

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I'm weird, but I enjoyed the 'catfighting' between interested Morrigan and Leliana so I flirted with the swamp witch and slept with her then gradually upped Leliana's approval till she was jealous of Morrigan (not high enough to make me break it off).  Finally forcing the issue later and ultimately agreeing when Morrigan said "I can't do this anymore" and finishing with Leliana.  This didn't fit all my PC's.  My King Cousland slept with Morrigan only for the DR. My Redeemer Cousland only romanced Leliana, and told Morrigan to take a hike.  The breakoff either gets you less disapproval or actually gets you approval from Morrigan--but don't quote me, it's been years since I last cracked open Origin with a male character.

 

I think both would fit well with a casteless, depending on your roleplay.  Just not sure how much of a 'happy' ending you want with the Warden.  If just playing Origins, none of the DLC's, for the 'happier' romance, definitely Leliana.  For more story integration and the idea that you can have a child with and be with Morrigan after your PC hunts her down in WH, there is that factor to consider on her side.  You say you want to consider only Origins...does that also include Witch Hunt?  

 

I have the Ultimate Edition, so ALL DLC is available to me. I admit that I often skip Awakening and other post game DLCs though. I am not a big fan of Awakening for some reason, and Witch hunt bores me in that it's just retreading old ground (and Golems is just bleh and Chronicles is an uncanon what-if). I do Awakening more often than Witch Hunt. However, a Morrigan romance might give me enough incentive to do WH for the first time in a long time. If I romance Morrigan, I'll do it. If not, I'll skip it as usual. And even lacking DAI, he'll still get to have a nice happy family life someday even if I don't really see it.

 

So basically, none of that is a problem.



#24
Dutchess

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No, I will NEVER do the death ending. The final being a funeral instead of the awesome victory celebration where you get to talk to everyone one final time would leave me with an empty feeling that would just sap all the fun I'd been having right out of the game. She pretty much tells you she offers you the ritual partly because she does indeed care about you and really really wants you to continue living, I don't distrust her after that. Especially in a romance, where there's no way she's faking how freak-out about accidentally falling in love with you since she sees it as a weakness.

 

Your Warden doesn't have to be the one to die. You can still let Alistair or Loghain take the final blow. 

 

You seem to view Morrigan in a much more positive light, lol. To me she seemed pretty sketchy when talking about the ritual. She knew about it all this time but never told you, despite her proclaimed love for you. Considering the ritual was her ultimate goal and reason for joining you, it is not inconceivable that she would seduce the Warden to make it more likely he will consent. She will refuse to tell you what her plans are with the child, says that she will leave and that you're never supposed to see it again. Plenty of reasons to be wary, I'd say. And tracking her down in Witch Hunt after turning her offer to do the ritual down could be interesting as well. Just a possibility/viewpoint to consider.



#25
andy6915

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Your Warden doesn't have to be the one to die. You can still let Alistair or Loghain take the final blow. 

 

You seem to view Morrigan in a much more positive light, lol. To me she seemed pretty sketchy when talking about the ritual. She knew about it all this time but never told you, despite her proclaimed love for you. Considering the ritual was her ultimate goal and reason for joining you, it is not inconceivable that she would seduce the Warden to make it more likely he will consent. She will refuse to tell you what her plans are with the child, says that she will leave and that you're never supposed to see it again. Plenty of reasons to be wary, I'd say. And tracking her down in Witch Hunt after turning her offer to do the ritual down could be interesting as well. Just a possibility/viewpoint to consider.

 

Seducing is one thing. The "begging you to break up with her because actually loving someone freaking terrifies her" thing she does in a romance is something else entirely. I can't imagine her being able to ACT that, if even just for the fact that the begging makes her look weak and I don't think her pride could handle looking that pathetic to me on purpose. And she didn't tell me because of the distrust that has been ingrained into her since birth by her mother, because she didn't trust that I would trust her if she told me (that's kinda roundabout).

 

On an off topic note, I think I might leave my comfort zone. Every rogue I've ever done has been strength based and has been assassin-duelist. But I'm thinking of doing a cunning rogue for once and doing assassin-bard instead because I've realized that a minor extra 10 attack and 10 defense as a sustained mode really isn't that... Good. I'm rather apprehensive, no Maker's Sighs in DAO means no respec if I don't like the way I turned out.